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genh

theme deck tier list

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genh

new player here, wishing all happy new year eve and happy new year 2021 
im just playing theme deck at the moment, got few question to ask:

1.i want to know the tier list (t1,t2,t3) of theme deck  in u mind so i can made decision to spending the 1st 500 token (currently i was think to buy the viv charizard) hoping to win theme tournament event

2.relentless flame had been released for 2 years and soaring storm is 1 half year, are they still in top tier1? 

3. how they are still in top? will they be having a drop after new theme deck come out? can i buy it now or wait until the new deck coming up on february?

4.my yugioh friends tells me the general rule of any card games is "new cards generally stonger than old card" does that apply on this game too?

 

Edited by genh
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Chasista

Welcome, and Happy new year.

 

1.- VVi Charizard's seems a nice choose to start. I don't play Theme but for what I heard, it's a common one and if it is, is that is good. The way to know what are the best Theme for yourself is playing the Versus ladder Theme format, and see what decks are more common, and what ones beat you harder and faster. You'll see it fast

 

2.- Relentless flame has always been a good deck, quite strong and mainly, very easy to play. Also good is Soaring storm although it's more complex to manage. I'd say both are high tier yet.

 

3.- RF, because can hit very hard and it's extremely easy to play. Soaring storm, because can hit very hard too and although it's harder to master, have side options for different weaknesses while there never have been anything in the format hitting weakness to dragons.

 

3b.- To me, the goal is to get every single Theme out there. You can start that 3 and also Laser focus for example. You'll see if you play often, you'll get tokens enough to get Theme quite often too. From now to February you'll easily have 2000 to 5000 tokens spent in that matter.

 

4.- Yes, but the combos are important too. A new card can be strong paired with an older card that had no use in the game before. As an old card can became strong because a new release. But talking generally, the power creep is a constant in PTCG.

 

Have fun!

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GrimBeard
5 hours ago, genh said:

new player here

 

Welcome.

 

5 hours ago, genh said:

1.i want to know the tier list  of theme deck in u mind so i can made decision to spending the 1st 500 token (currently i was think to buy the viv charizard) hoping to win theme tournament event

 

I pasted from a previous post what I consider to be the best theme decks below for you.

 

I won't bother you going over the other questions asked as  @Chasista defo covered my own thoughts.

 

On 12/10/2020 at 11:33 PM, GrimBeard said:

 

Top 3 Decks that are consistent is - in order:

  1. Soaring Storm
  2. Relentless Flame
  3. Laser Focus

Best decks in each class:

  • Zamazenta (metal)
  • Unseen Depths (water)
  • Towering Heights (fighting)
  • Storm Caller (lightning) 
  • Rillaboom (grass)
  • Relentless Flame (fire)
  • None (fairy - no I'am not joking)
  • Laser Focus (psychic) 

Honorable Mentions:

  • Blazing Volcano
  • Tropical Takedown
  • Twilight Rogue
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genh
Posted (edited)

thanks for answering my question guys😃

 

@GrimBeard btw, are torrential cannon are out of meta and replace by unseen depth right now? i heard during that time it was powerful as relentless flame

Edited by genh

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GrimBeard
51 minutes ago, genh said:

thanks for answering my question guys😃

 

@GrimBeard btw, are torrential cannon are out of meta and replace by unseen depth right now? i heard during that time it was powerful as relentless flame

 

No prob.

 

Torrential Cannon is a decent theme deck no doubt. For myself personally, I just think Unseen Depths is considerably better.

 

No idea really if the meta would agree with me tbh. I can see how Torrential Cannon was/is as powerful as Relentless Flame. For myself, I consider it a decent deck 25% of the time and for the remaining 75%, I consider it as a meh deck.

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Otakutron

Here's my take on things, after taking the newer decks for a spin.  Let's start with some general things to remember, though.

  • Tiers are not (in this case) evenly spaced, logarithmic, etc.  Ordering within a Tier is alphabetical. (Does not apply to other posts)
  • Theme Decks are held to different, far less demanding standards than decks for other Formats on the PTCGO...
  • ...and I'm strictly talking about Theme Decks in the Theme Format.
  • Your Mileage May Vary, which is true of almost all decks, but more obvious when you cannot fine tune them.
  • Things can change, even when there are no new releases, just like in other Formats.
  • Unless otherwise stated, if it is on this list, it has good (for the Theme Format) opening Pokémon and Trainer compliments.
  • If something everyone says is great plays horribly for you...
    • It could be luck, but rarely is unless your sample size is super small.
    • It could be the deck doesn't match your natural play-style
    • It probably is you don't know how to play that Theme Deck very well.
    • A good way to tell is "Do I lose to this deck in the hands of others?"

 

Tier 1

 

Charizard Theme Deck: Maybe it is just beginners luck, but the deck has both power and speed while being somewhat reliable.  It is very hit-or-miss at the start, because it only has one good opener (run at a two count): Sudowoodo.  It also has a nearly useless Stage 1 line (Magcargo).  Charizard does a reliable 100 for [RR], with one Leon in the discard bumping that to 150, while a second reaches 200.  Yanmega is so-so; great when attacking into Weakness, when you need a free-retreater, or when you need to hit-and-run.  Meh-to-bad, otherwise.  There is a lot of negative to mediocre with this deck, but what it does right, it does really right.

 

Relentless Flame: Fast and reliable, and if you can take an extra turn, you can OHKO anything.  Dual-Stage 2s can be tricky, and don't be afraid to fall back on Rapidash and Agility Spam to buy time, though it doesn't always work.  Charizard is the star, but Nidoqueen packs a punch once you've got enough Evolutions on your Bench.

 

Tier 2

 

Soaring Storm: Sometimes has a fast-but-reckless start (Tornadus/Thundurus), but or it can go for a slow but sustained assault. Dragonite can OHKO almost anything, but the catch is you're risking Dragonite in doing so and it burns through your Energy fast.  Lanturn is nice as a final attacker or one-and-done pinch hitter.

 

Towering Heights: Sometimes fast, sometimes slow.  Dual Stage 2s can be tricky, and the best fallback attacker in the deck (Throh) still requires some setup.  Siesmitoad here just isn't as good as Nidoqueen in Relentless Flame.  Garchomp is a great attacker, and when you're down at least one Prize and can spare discarding an Energy, it can OHKO anything.

 

Unseen Depths: Sometimes fast, sometimes slow.  This is a technical deck, lacking in raw power.  Its greatest strength is type-matching.  Empoleon is the star; if that makes no sense, look at what Recall lets you do thanks to this deck's Piplup and Prinplup.  Remember its attacks how a low printed cost, but often discard all of its Energy.  Golduck varies from great (can survive the next turn, bounces a Draw Energy, don't need your Energy attachment elsewhere) to... not (none of those three apply and it isn't even getting a KO).  Ambipom wrecks your hand, but is solid when you have fodder.

 

Tier 3

 

Galarian Sirfetch'd Deck: In a weird way, it reminds me of Relentless Flame.  No where near as good - I did put it two Tiers lower - but when this deck works, it uses its Trainer based Energy acceleration to hit hard, and it can try to stall with Dugtrio.  Hippowdown is a underwhleming, but not "bad bad".  A lot of key cards involve coin flips, and the Energy acceleration cannot always attach where you need it to attach.

 

Laser Storm: I struggle with this deck; had some beginners luck, but since have struggled to make it work.  To me, the deck suffers due to a lack of good opening Pokémon.  It has some "okay" ones, but nothing especially good.  If your Weakness Guard Energy doesn't show up for Necrozma, your offense is limited.  However, when you have a Malamar or two ready to go, you can keep throwing decent attackers at your opponent with ease.

 

Rillaboom Theme Deck: Has arguably the worst Weakness to have right now, and its best attackers are very Energy hungry.  It has the mixed blessing of 4 Hop and 3 Professor's Research; sometimes you have to trash great cards, or just a lot of decent cards, to dig for what you actually need.  Rillaboom is the biggest Stage 2 in Theme, Snorlax is the biggest Basic, and the deck packs two Potion and one Pokémon Center Lady.  Snorlax's attacks are decent (not bad, not good), but Rillaboom's are great.  Eldegoss is brilliant if it shows up on time, a waste otherwise.  Whimsicott is a massive gamble, and even when it works it may not matter (oh, you sent my Basic with one Energy attached back to my deck).

 

Note: I didn't realize how tired I was when I started this, so it is quite possible (and rather probable) I forgot something.  Maybe even have a deck one too high or low.  I did leave something out: my honorable mentions; decks that are just barely below Tier 3, or which are below but have something about them (usually a nasty combo) that still means they're worth a nod.

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genh

thanks @Otakutron, it helps me a lot😊
can u also give a commend on drednaw theme deck? i guess it will be around tier 1 and tier 2 maybe?

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Otakutron
11 hours ago, genh said:

thanks @Otakutron, it helps me a lot😊
can u also give a commend on drednaw theme deck? i guess it will be around tier 1 and tier 2 maybe?

 

I was thinking of making it an Honorable Mention.  I tried it a lot, because I just have a fondness for turtles. XD  I also wanted something that was not Charizard: I like Charizard (as a Pokémon), but it ran into too many other people playing Relentless Flame or the Charizard Theme Deck, so I wanted something different.  Something different that countered those decks seemed like an even better deal...

 

...but the Drednaw Theme Deck just fails to setup far, far too often.  I think part of it is its reliance on Nessa.  The Drednaw Theme Decks needs a lot of her, given the Pokémon in it, but she's a dead draw for your first few turns, and a suboptimal play for your first several turns, maybe even half the game.

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genh
16 hours ago, Otakutron said:

 

 

...but the Drednaw Theme Deck just fails to setup far, far too often.  I think part of it is its reliance on Nessa.  The Drednaw Theme Decks needs a lot of her, given the Pokémon in it, but she's a dead draw for your first few turns, and a suboptimal play for your first several turns, maybe even half the game.

i see, it rely on the luck to draw Nessa

yup, the charizard are everywhere in the versus😂
 

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Otakutron
Posted (edited)
On 1/3/2021 at 3:31 AM, genh said:

i see, it rely on the luck to draw Nessa

yup, the charizard are everywhere in the versus😂
 

 

Might be me not quite getting what you're saying but...

 

The Drednaw Theme Deck lacks a good opening Pokémon.  There isn't the equivalent of Alolan Grimer (SM - Unified Minds 127/236) or Farfetch'd (SM - Team Up 127/181).  Neither is there the equivalent of Gible (SM - Ultra Prism 96/156) and Gabite (SM - Ultra Prism 98/156), with their Ascension attacks.  Mach Strike was made by Garchomp (SM - Ultra Prism 99/156), but Garchomp worked so well because of Cynthia, Pal Pad, and those two evolving Pokémon as lead-ins.

 

Instead, what the Drednaw Theme Deck offers is:

 

  • Arrokuda is okay... if you only have to attack with it once and neither of your other Arrokuda are Prized.
  • Chewtle is okay.
  • Cramorant needs Arrokuda cards to discard from the field.
  • Oshawott is just a body with filler attacks.
  • Wishwashi has a great (for opening) attack... but it has 30 HP.  If you go first, it might not live long enough to attack!

This could still work if the Trainers picked up the slack, but for draw power we have:

  • 2x Dan
  • 4x Hop
  • 2x Professor's Research

While for search we have

  • 1x Evolution Incense
  • 2x Great Ball
  • 2x Sonia

Not terrible in terms of raw count, but unless you're really good at Rock-Paper-Scissors, Dan is a "Draw 2 cards" Supporter, Evolution Incense is only good for one Evolution, Great Ball is hit or miss based on the top seven cards of your deck, and Sonia is two Basic Pokémon or two basic Energy cards (too often I need one of each).

 

The deck can do some amazing things when you luck into your draw/search cards, or just the actual cards you need at the moment.  Cheeky things like opening with Cramorant, the needed Energy, Arrokuda, and Nessa, and going on a OHKO spree.  It is just you cannot count on it doing that.

Edited by Otakutron
Made it more clear how important a good, opening Basic is.
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OsMoFFZA

It feels to me in the theme versus matches 60 - 70% of the time I am facing someone playing either VV Charizard or Relentless flame theme decks. So I have been using my Galarian Darmanitan theme deck and have been able to counter those players. Been able to get an 5 game win streak this way.

 

Only one VV Charizard theme deck player was actually smart enough to play around his fire pokemon to avoid the water weakness and managed to win the game. 😅

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Wolfman_11

Yep. That is the one I use on tournaments. They pull out their Charizard and start taunting with "You have a good deck" after they take a couple of your Pokemon. When YOU take their last prize card be sure to tell them "You have a good deck!" I find that the ones playing Relentless flame NEVER seem to flip tails when they use Agility on their Rapidash, which gives them loads of time to build up Nidoqueen.  I haven't seen so many heads flipped in a row as when I play against that deck.

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GrimBeard
4 hours ago, Wolfman_11 said:

I haven't seen so many heads flipped in a row as when I play against that deck.

 

Same. It's at the stage for myself that I genuinely believe that it's not programmed to be a 50/50 chance.

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Otakutron
31 minutes ago, GrimBeard said:

 

Same. It's at the stage for myself that I genuinely believe that it's not programmed to be a 50/50 chance.

 

Or it might be confirmation bias.  Well, maybe that isn't quite the correct term, but how often do you remember things like "Your Agility flip failed, so the match proceeded normally."? XD

 

One thing we can discuss is the Galarian Darmanitan Theme Deck.  While I haven't played dozens upon dozens of games with it, I did try to make it work and... well... after a few wins, it really started to let me down.

 

5 hours ago, Wolfman_11 said:

Yep. That is the one I use on tournaments. They pull out their Charizard and start taunting with "You have a good deck" after they take a couple of your Pokemon. When YOU take their last prize card be sure to tell them "You have a good deck!"

 

Given the limited nature of the canned chat, you sure they weren't just saying that because they expected to lose the match-up?  You know, due to the type-advantage your deck enjoys?  Oh well, you're probably right, but still... it wasn't right when they did it, so I don't really think it is correct when you do it.  Especially if they were willing to actually finish the match, instead of conceding the instant they realized they couldn't win.

 

Not that I can stop you, nor am I certain I would if I could.  People need thicker skins, so if this really bothers a person...

Edited by Otakutron

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GrimBeard
1 hour ago, Otakutron said:

...often do you remember things like "Your Agility flip failed, ...

 

Yeah, I understand that. I just hate to lose to a coin flip - admittedly it doesn't happen often (they get 100% heads) but when it does offt... it stings.

 

1 hour ago, Otakutron said:

One thing we can discuss is the Galarian Darmanitan Theme Deck.  While I haven't played dozens upon dozens of games with it, I did try to make it work and... well... after a few wins, it really started to let me down.

 

Yeah, same for myself. I really liked the deck when it came out but it kinda fell off my radar after a while. 

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Wolfman_11
2 hours ago, Otakutron said:

Given the limited nature of the canned chat, you sure they weren't just saying that because they expected to lose the match-up?  You know, due to the type-advantage your deck enjoys?  Oh well, you're probably right, but still... it wasn't right when they did it, so I don't really think it is correct when you do it.  Especially if they were willing to actually finish the match, instead of conceding the instant they realized they couldn't win.

     You are correct, the limited choices for chat can be misinterpreted. I have only ever once played against Galarian Darmanitan Theme Deck in a tournament and I gave them the "You have a good deck" as a complement since we were playing the same cards. In VS I will too give the "You have a good deck" when I appreciate the deck they have created and beat me with. You can often tell if a player is new, of they are experienced by the choices they make.

 

     I am 50 years old and am well versed in sarcasm so I am not certain that this was a case of misinterpretation in the example I gave above.

It was the final round of the tournament. As soon as the match started they sent the "You have a good deck", so as you indicated maybe they were worried. Water vs fire could go either way.   I had only a couple of the useless card on deck and they had a lucky deal and got set up early. That was the first "You have a good deck " sent my way.  They took my first active pokemon and said "Whew that was close!". They took my second and third pokemon and gave me the "You have a good deck!". I finally got set up and taking prize cards until we were down to 1 prize card each. They had Nidoqueen active,  I had Darumaka. One last "You have a good deck " came at me. I evolved to the fire Darmanitan, gave them the Frozen heat for 170 and won the tournament. They gave me the mad face.  What ornery old man wouldn't want to compliment them with the"You have a good deck" response?
 

Anyway, to get back on the topic of the original poster I would like to say don't overlook Galarian Darmanitan Theme Deck even though it is not ranked as a top tier deck.  Once you get to know what cards to NOT use, it gives pretty consistent results and puts a good fight up against the popular decks.

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Otakutron
1 hour ago, Wolfman_11 said:

What ornery old man wouldn't want to compliment them with the"You have a good deck" response?

 

Indeed, indeed.  My apologies for not giving you the benefit of the doubt.  Projection, in my case; I have a bad habit of misreading these situations myself.

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