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BAN ADP


Sweet_Pichu_07

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Sweet_Pichu_07

I believe ADP(Arceus,Dialga,Palkia Tag Team GX) is very powerful and the deck itself is making me want to not play this game. I have played in the players cup qualifiers and more than half of all my games starting that player is playing ADP. The deck is too powerful and can set up from any hand that it gives. Not only that but it makes every deck out there( GX/V-VMAX and non GX/V-VMAX) barley unplayable. ADP needs to be banned IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!! Please address this issue cause i would like to continue to play this great game but if bans like this dont get addressed then i dont see myself  enjying this as much. It doesnt matter if there are no events due to COVID-19 or anything like that, i believe the fact is that ADP is a very powerful but unfair deck to be in the format. PLEASE ADDRESS!!!!

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Mod_GuruLot
17 minutes ago, Sweet_Pichu_07 said:

I believe ADP(Arceus,Dialga,Palkia Tag Team GX) is very powerful and the deck itself is making me want to not play this game. I have played in the players cup qualifiers and more than half of all my games starting that player is playing ADP. The deck is too powerful and can set up from any hand that it gives. Not only that but it makes every deck out there( GX/V-VMAX and non GX/V-VMAX) barley unplayable. ADP needs to be banned IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!! Please address this issue cause i would like to continue to play this great game but if bans like this dont get addressed then i dont see myself  enjying this as much. It doesnt matter if there are no events due to COVID-19 or anything like that, i believe the fact is that ADP is a very powerful but unfair deck to be in the format. PLEASE ADDRESS!!!!

 

Hello @Sweet_Pichu_07

 

Welcome to the forum! :) 

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your suggestion and feedback with us. 

 

I'm passing this along to the development team for further review. 

 

Any changes implemented are officially announced here, please keep an eye on this board for any updates. Hope this helps! 

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The card has no attack power, Crushing Hammer is everywhere, Turbo Patch doesn't even help it. If it is so OP then just play it yourself!

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LightFlarion

Yeah I agree ADP I feel is too powerful given its GX attack, especially in expanded formats with Double Dragon Energy and Guzma and Hala tag team. The consistency with ADP opening its GX attack is far to simple to set-up in my opinion.

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Raticate555
On 10/24/2020 at 7:25 AM, LightFlarion said:

Yeah I agree ADP I feel is too powerful given its GX attack, especially in expanded formats with Double Dragon Energy and Guzma and Hala tag team. The consistency with ADP opening its GX attack is far to simple to set-up in my opinion.

 

This is a very good observation. With simply 1 Tag Call you can take 1 extra prize card and do 30 more damage for the entire game. Stupid.

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Raticate555
On 10/23/2020 at 5:10 AM, mthverse said:

The card has no attack power

 

It doesn't need it. In both formats it just gusts around Tag Teams or Vmaxs to take KOs on 180 HP or less Pokemon, most often Crobats, Dedennes or Shaymins.

 

On 10/23/2020 at 5:10 AM, mthverse said:

Crushing Hammer is everywhere

 

Yes, but with Energy Switch it can easily be powered up in one turn. Hammers work based on coin flip too, not a sound counter to anything, but good enough to play in this format despite that.

 

On 10/23/2020 at 5:10 AM, mthverse said:

Turbo Patch doesn't even help it

 

Two parts to this:

1. Energy Switch. You could say Metal Saucer doesn't help ADP, but it does help a lot. Turbo Patch basically fills the same roll except it's not as good.

2. A lot of ADP decks haven't been playing it even as an extra Saucer meaning that 4 is enough to completely destroy the opposition.

 

On 10/23/2020 at 5:10 AM, mthverse said:

If it is so OP then just play it yourself!

 

A sad truth of the Standard Format. When something gets OP, playing it is almost the only option. Countering something this game changing is incredibly hard, I haven't seen anyone counter it fully, which is a very scary idea.

 

Expanded it has lots of options to be countered. Enhanced Hammer is a lovely one especially in combination with Pokemon Ranger. But other dangers lurk in the woods of Expanded as the Night Watches on beneath the Pale Moon.

 

I don't think ADP will get banned in either format. It is dominant and oppressive but still allows your opponent to play the game. Although it doesn't allow them to play for very long, it still gives them a few turns to beat it, which, if someone finds the counter deck, might be enough.

 

Thank you all.

 

Raticate555

Edited by Raticate555
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Mod_GuruLot
2 hours ago, Totalmmortal said:

Its not the the only card that should be banned. But I completely agree.

 

Hello @Totalmmortal

 

We welcome you to the forums! :) Thank you for your feedback on ADP.

 

You seem to have also started a new thread here about other cards that supposedly need a ban. Let's see what other trainers say. 

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On 10/22/2020 at 1:40 AM, Sweet_Pichu_07 said:

I believe ADP(Arceus,Dialga,Palkia Tag Team GX) is very powerful and the deck itself is making me want to not play this game. I have played in the players cup qualifiers and more than half of all my games starting that player is playing ADP. The deck is too powerful and can set up from any hand that it gives. Not only that but it makes every deck out there( GX/V-VMAX and non GX/V-VMAX) barley unplayable. ADP needs to be banned IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!! Please address this issue cause i would like to continue to play this great game but if bans like this dont get addressed then i dont see myself  enjying this as much. It doesnt matter if there are no events due to COVID-19 or anything like that, i believe the fact is that ADP is a very powerful but unfair deck to be in the format. PLEASE ADDRESS!!!!

it sounds like you dont like OTHERS using it, i agree it is quite good but still, why dont you just use it yourself?  Pokemon cards should NOT be banned just because you dont like others using it.

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19 hours ago, s1llyg00se said:

it sounds like you dont like OTHERS using it, i agree it is quite good but still, why dont you just use it yourself?  Pokemon cards should NOT be banned just because you dont like others using it.

I'm not fully disagreeing with you but one thing I want to chime in on is that while it is true that everyone can trade up to the cards in the deck, it's not good for the health of the game as a whole when the meta is mostly centralized in one deck. Especially during the players cup 2 qualifier tournaments, it's uncanny how many times you run into the same ADP Zacian deck BECAUSE it's so consistent and does well against the rest of the meta. It's boring to play against the same deck all the time and gives less and less value to other cards/decks.

 

Again I do agree with you it's not an unbeatable tier 0 deck, it's not entirely an unfair deck. I can win against it but I do firmly believe that it's not good for the game when less decks are played because everyone wants to jump on the ADPZ hype.

In the end however I don't think it will be banned. There's a couple sealed products that feature ADPZ (namely the league battle deck), I don't imagine TPCI will ban a card that is literally featured in a sealed product that's due for release soon.

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Otakutron
2 hours ago, Kek01 said:

I'm not fully disagreeing with you but one thing I want to chime in on is that while it is true that everyone can trade up to the cards in the deck, it's not good for the health of the game as a whole when the meta is mostly centralized in one deck.

 

I don't like when a single deck controls too much of the metagame.  How much is "too much"?  I'm not sure of the exact threshold, and it does vary from Format to Format and cardpool to cardpool.  That isn't why I am commenting, just wanted to get that out there before I make my actual point:

 

The way the powers-that-be realize something is "too good" and played "too much" is just that: we've got to spam it until they and everyone else is sick of it.  If you think a card needs to be banned, use it all the time.  Make sure everyone is as sick of it as you are, especially at high-level events.  This also has another benefit:

 

If you're wrong, and the card is not broken, you can realize it.

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On 10/30/2020 at 12:35 PM, Otakutron said:

 

I don't like when a single deck controls too much of the metagame.  How much is "too much"?  I'm not sure of the exact threshold, and it does vary from Format to Format and cardpool to cardpool.  That isn't why I am commenting, just wanted to get that out there before I make my actual point:

 

The way the powers-that-be realize something is "too good" and played "too much" is just that: we've got to spam it until they and everyone else is sick of it.  If you think a card needs to be banned, use it all the time.  Make sure everyone is as sick of it as you are, especially at high-level events.  This also has another benefit:

 

If you're wrong, and the card is not broken, you can realize it.

Yeah I see what you're saying here. Again I personally don't mind it being banned or it staying until it eventually rotates out. I just understand some of the frustrations for why some people want it to be banned.

You are also correct on your second point, I did realize myself after playing many games against ADPZ it isn't actually broken, and after a certain number of games (even if you don't play adpz yourself) you learn where it falls short, how you can slow it down while you ramp up, etc.

 

Again I wanted to address that I simply wanted to state that I understand why people are ANNOYED at it, but it's not unfair/broken.

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 10/30/2020 at 9:33 AM, Kek01 said:

I'm not fully disagreeing with you but one thing I want to chime in on is that while it is true that everyone can trade up to the cards in the deck, it's not good for the health of the game as a whole when the meta is mostly centralized in one deck. Especially during the players cup 2 qualifier tournaments, it's uncanny how many times you run into the same ADP Zacian deck BECAUSE it's so consistent and does well against the rest of the meta. It's boring to play against the same deck all the time and gives less and less value to other cards/decks.

 

Again I do agree with you it's not an unbeatable tier 0 deck, it's not entirely an unfair deck. I can win against it but I do firmly believe that it's not good for the game when less decks are played because everyone wants to jump on the ADPZ hype.

In the end however I don't think it will be banned. There's a couple sealed products that feature ADPZ (namely the league battle deck), I don't imagine TPCI will ban a card that is literally featured in a sealed product that's due for release soon.

 

Not everyone can afford to pay to win. Pokemon tcg is better when multiple decks are battling for the top spot. I can understand anyone's frustration with out playing the ADP player, and then they knock out a zigzagoon on the bench for cheap a win. ADP is a low skill deck, and I can't wait for rotation. Don't know if it should be banned, but an extra prize card every knock out is broken.  

Edited by Yveltal806
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Otakutron
3 hours ago, Yveltal806 said:

 

Not everyone can afford to pay to win. Pokemon tcg is better when multiple decks are battling for the top spot. I can understand anyone's frustration with out playing the ADP player, and then they knock out a zigzagoon on the bench for cheap a win. ADP is a low skill deck, and I can't wait for rotation. Don't know if it should be banned, but an extra prize card every knock out is broken.  

 

So you want Pikachu & Zekrom-GX banned?

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WingsofFire1014

I personally feel that the word "ban" (including the suffixes XD), is a word that is very often taken for granted. To me, it's an abused word, and I don't think people understand how much thought really goes into banning a card.

 

Like come on. No company wants to ban a card that THEY designed.

 

There is a REASON as to why somebody wins a tournament or something. They had the BEST DECK, and that's that. There's got to be a deck in the end that's either better designed (which IS often the case), or just a more dominant deck, which really, you could look at ADP that way, and that would be fine, but I never like to look at a deck\card and call it broken, because I know I can beat it.

 

The company would most likely only ban ADP (for example) if there was actually a problem with the card. There isn't.

 

It'll run its course, in the meantime, just accept it as being there, or build a deck designed to counter it.

 

 

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Instead of banning, how come Pokemon cards are not limited to certain amount of copies per deck such as other card games do? Ex ADP to 1 copy and Zacian V to 2 copies per deck.

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WorldGovernment
On 10/22/2020 at 11:10 PM, mthverse said:

The card has no attack power, Crushing Hammer is everywhere, Turbo Patch doesn't even help it. If it is so OP then just play it yourself!

you know what you talking about , we don't play the game to win , we play because it is fun to play against many creative decks and ideas.  If all players using the same deck then where is the fun on that.  I also stop playing the game since ADP released on the game and I'm sure so many people left.  Don't just think about your silly thinking of winning every game with ADP (i can do that also but no fun to play same deck for 1 month), there are many different ways to play and have fun

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Otakutron
12 hours ago, mthverse said:

Instead of banning, how come Pokemon cards are not limited to certain amount of copies per deck such as other card games do? Ex ADP to 1 copy and Zacian V to 2 copies per deck.

 

That only works when a certain number of copies of a particular card are "broken", and even then, it still makes deck checks for tournaments a more complicated affair.  That rarely describes Pokémon.

 

The Pokémon TCG is one where you have (relative to other games I've played) a fantastic amount of low cost draw and search, and pretty good card recycling as well.  What does and doesn't work in many other games works in Pokémon.  There is an advanced gameplay principle called "TecH", which is short for "technical advantage".  In most TCGs, if a card is useful you run more copies to

  • Increase how many times you can use it.
  • Increase the odds of drawing it sooner/at the right time.
  • Both

Pokémon can bend that rule at times.  There are cards you'll need to run the full four copies of because you do need to use four copies most games, or you do need to get a single copy ASAP.  However, there are cards you only really need for key match-ups.  In fact, having them as a single should probably make your deck worse, because it makes your deck less consistent and is useless so many games... but TecH ends up being worthwhile because the problem match-up it solves means you still see a net gain in wins.

 

Let us take Arceus & Dialga & Palkia-GX: competitive deck lists run two copies of it.  They only need one the vast majority of the time, but no one wants to take the chance that their single copy of Arceus & Dialga & Palkai-GX is stuck in their Prize cards.  As such, restricting it to three copies per deck, even if we ignore how this affects tournament logistics, would do nothing.  Restricting it to two per deck would do nothing.  You'd have to limit it to one per deck, and that might work, but there's no guarantee.  Some cards on the actual banned list were run as singles in decks, like Hex Maniac.  No restriction short of banning would matter.

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The card is definitely overtuned for the current meta. Its main problem in my opinion is not because its tier 1 (because something has to be regardless) but because it makes a lot of other especially single prize decks unplayable. It forces the entire meta to either your deck can deal with adp or you don't play it. Competitively its done ok but hasn't won many tournaments either so its not as some people make it out to be.

 

Solutions

- put some counter card like ace trainer 

- play it yourself and accept (ptcgo might like this because they don't have to do anything, but it upsets the community and people leave which might not be a good)

- ban easy solution (would make a lot of people happy, but its also a great competitive card which some people enjoy playing also.)

 

Edited by oTurtles
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darkness018

Don’t think it needs to be banned since it’s probably getting rotated out soon but technically all they need to do is change the weakness to something else that’s still in rotation 

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