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[ASK] Weakness and Resistance Don't Matter?


Monoxdifly
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So I've been starting to play PvP to actually test my mono-Water deck. Once I faced a Grass/Electric deck and noticed something off. When my opponent's Electric Pokemon does an attack, my Pokemon whose Weakness is Electric receive normal damage instead double ones. The same thing happened when I attacked his Grass Pokemon whose weakness is Water with my Water Pokemon and my Pokemon did normal damage instead of doubles. I checked the Ability of all Pokemon on the field as well as any Trainer cards played that turn but nothing suggest ignoring Weakness and Resistance (also, both times it's involving both Active Pokemon, I know that attacking a Benched Pokemon ignores Weakness and Resistance. I then realized that during my previous PvP Duels the Weakness/Resistance effect also never happened (it did happen when I did a Trainer Challenge next days). Is this a bug or purposely programmed into PvP for the sake of balance?

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6 minutes ago, Monoxdifly said:

So I've been starting to play PvP to actually test my mono-Water deck. Once I faced a Grass/Electric deck and noticed something off. When my opponent's Electric Pokemon does an attack, my Pokemon whose Weakness is Electric receive normal damage instead double ones. The same thing happened when I attacked his Grass Pokemon whose weakness is Water with my Water Pokemon and my Pokemon did normal damage instead of doubles. I checked the Ability of all Pokemon on the field as well as any Trainer cards played that turn but nothing suggest ignoring Weakness and Resistance (also, both times it's involving both Active Pokemon, I know that attacking a Benched Pokemon ignores Weakness and Resistance. I then realized that during my previous PvP Duels the Weakness/Resistance effect also never happened (it did happen when I did a Trainer Challenge next days). Is this a bug or purposely programmed into PvP for the sake of balance?

Which pokemon are you talking about there are some pokemon whose attack states that its damage does not apply weakness and resistance like zapdos tue.

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50 minutes ago, Monoxdifly said:

The same thing happened when I attacked his Grass Pokemon whose weakness is Water...

 

Say what?  At first I thought you'd just transposed types, but you begin by stating

 

44 minutes ago, Pyu514068 said:

So I've been starting to play PvP to actually test my mono-Water deck. Once I faced a Grass/Electric deck and noticed something off.

 

No Grass Pokémon in the PTCGO are [W] Weak, and only one in the entire physical card game.

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51 minutes ago, Otakutron said:

 

Say what?  At first I thought you'd just transposed types, but you begin by stating

 

 

No Grass Pokémon in the PTCGO are [W] Weak, and only one in the entire physical card game.

Why is it showing in the quote my screen name and yes no grass pokemon is weak to water(except Cradily ex of EX Team Magma vs. Team Aqua 90/95 Rare Holo EX)but the opposite is true that water pokemon are weak to grass.

Edited by Pyu514068
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1 hour ago, Pyu514068 said:

Which pokemon are you talking about there are some pokemon whose attack states that its damage does not apply weakness and resistance like zapdos tue.

I don't remember, but it sounds like the most possible explanation.

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If you have a Game Log, this confusion can be cleared up. There are many potential explanations for what happened, the attack may have been like Zapdos TEU’s Thunderous Assault which isn’t affected by Resistance, Weakness could’ve been removed by an ability, Weakness Guard Energy, or Weakness Policy, or the damage may have been reduced so much that Weakness was not apparent.

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16 hours ago, Pyu514068 said:

Why is it showing in the quote my screen name and yes no grass pokemon is weak to water(except Cradily ex of EX Team Magma vs. Team Aqua 90/95 Rare Holo EX)but the opposite is true that water pokemon are weak to grass.

 

Huh, not sure how I did that. Sorry, I'll fix the post.

 

While pre-Sword & Shield Pokémon are often Weak to Grass, that is not what was said.  Though I guess my quotes look suspicious given the misattribution of the second. XD  Let me try that again:

 

Monoxdifly states s/he is testing a mono-Water deck in PVP, and that the opponent had a Grass/Electric (Grass/Lightning) deck.  Then, that Lightning type attackers weren't doing double damage to Lightning Weak Pokémon, and later, when some of her/his Water Pokémon attacked a [W] Weak Grass Pokémon, Weakness wasn't applied, either.  I thought maybe Monoxdifly had simply transposed the types, but if that is the case, it was a double good as both player and type had to be transposed; the opponent attacking a Grass Weak Water Pokémon belonging to Monoxdifly didn't have Weakness applied to damage.

 

So... yeah, I'm still confused about this. XP  @Monoxdifly pardon me for asking a really basic question, but you know how Weakness/Resistance differs in the Pokémon TCG and PTCGO from the video games, right?  Instead of all Pokémon of a particular type being Weak to [insert type], a Pokémon is only Weak to the type listed under their Weakness, and Resistant to the type listed under their Resistance (or "types" in the case of certain older cards).  I know this is almost certainly not the issue, but it is like when you give a friend some tech support help and you have to ask questions like "Is it plugged in?  Did you try turning it off for five minutes and then powering it back on?"

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2 hours ago, Monoxdifly said:

Yes, I know how that works. I'll check the game log if it exists... or did I have to activate it before the Duel?

You can only find the Game Log during the match or immediately after the match. If you missed the opportunity to get it, you'll just have to remember to export the log next time you run into the issue.

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2 hours ago, Monoxdifly said:

Yes, I know how that works. I'll check the game log if it exists... or did I have to activate it before the Duel?

 

Okay... then was it a typo, was there a rare Weakness-altering effect, or am I just having a serious reading comprehension fail with your Water Weak Grass type?

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7 hours ago, Otakutron said:

Why is it showing in the quote my screen name and yes no grass pokemon is weak to water(except Cradily ex of EX Team Magma vs. Team Aqua 90/95 Rare Holo EX)but the opposite is true that water pokemon are weak to grass.

I thing i got to know how that happened you were trying to copy that quote and there came a option to quote selection and then it showed the name from whom you quoted that

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Well, when I sip my coffee in this morning I realized something. What if the attack used by the Electric Pokemon to attack my Electric-weak Water Pokemon was an attack that costs a Colorless Energy? Would it give normal damage?

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31 minutes ago, Monoxdifly said:

Well, when I sip my coffee in this morning I realized something. What if the attack used by the Electric Pokemon to attack my Electric-weak Water Pokemon was an attack that costs a Colorless Energy? Would it give normal damage?

The cost of the attack, or the energy used to pay for the attack never affects whether or not the Pokémon’s attack takes Weakness into account against the Defending Pokémon.

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To put it another way, in the TCG, all Weakness cares about is the type of the attacking Pokémon, barring any effect text that alters how things normally work.  Unlike in the video games, where the individual attacks themselves have their own types.

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On 8/24/2020 at 11:50 PM, Otakutron said:

 

No Grass Pokémon in the PTCGO are [W] Weak, and only one in the entire physical card game.

Just was looking over this thread and now I'm curious of which card is it.

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2 hours ago, PrPopcorn said:

Just was looking over this thread and now I'm curious of which card is it.

 

Don't look over the thread, read the thread. ;) It was already named:

 

On 8/25/2020 at 12:37 AM, Pyu514068 said:

Why is it showing in the quote my screen name and yes no grass pokemon is weak to water(except Cradily ex of EX Team Magma vs. Team Aqua 90/95 Rare Holo EX)but the opposite is true that water pokemon are weak to grass.

 

Emphasis added.  Enjoy!  I'll add that Cradily-ex has dual-Weakness, something they sometimes gave Pokémon-ex (not to be confused with Pokémon-EX).  So it is both Water and Fire Weak.  If it was attacked by a Pokémon which (through effects or specialty mechanics) was both Fire and Water, it was ruled you would apply both Weaknesses (multiplying damage by four).

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All EX Pokémon are Basic Pokémon, and they can have more powerful Mega EX Pokémon that evolve from them. GX Pokémon are whatever Stage the respective Pokémon would be (i.e: Kingdra is a Stage 2 so Kingdra GX is a Stage 2). GX Pokémon are also different because they each have 1 attack that you can only use once per game, called a GX attack. Both EX Pokémon and GX Pokémon give 2 Prize cards. The exception to this is Tag Team GX Pokémon, they are Basic 3-Prize Pokémon who can be Evolution Pokémon or Basic Pokémon, or a mix of both.

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2 hours ago, Monoxdifly said:

So, what makes an EX Pokemon special if they don't have that 1 per game special attack? Is it simply more HP?

No, the EX pokemon were most powerful before GX pokemon, they were strong not just because of their hp but also the attacks, some pokemon-EX can also evolve into M EX pokemon when a pokemon EX evolves into M EX one turn ends but the next turn they can do much more damage and their hp is a bit more than normal EX(except for one pokemon wailord EX which had 250 hp) . Pokemon EX were basics as ellomello044208 said but some of them were evolved pokemon who were recognized as basics like pokemon V. Some of them had good abilities.

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15 hours ago, Monoxdifly said:

Btw what is the difference between an EX Pokemon and a GX Pokemon?

 

I'm going to cover a bit of TCG history, which will explain your question but also put these mechanics in proper context.  Normally, in the Pokémon TCG, a Pokémon is worth one Prize when KO'd.  Simply put, for nearly 20 years, the TCG has had some Pokémon with stronger stats/effects, balanced out by those Pokémon being worth at least one extra Prize when KO'd.  So far, multi-Prize Pokémon have always been the record setters, at least when they were legal in Standard.  Meaning, before any of them existed, 120 HP was the maximum printed score.  Then the first multi-Prize Pokémon were released and 120 was exceeded; whatever the current maximum printed HP score is for single-Prize Pokémon, expect at least some (if not all) multi-Prize Pokémon to exceed it.

 

All the way back in EX - Ruby & Sapphire (Official Release Date: June 18, 2003), we got the first "multi-Prize" Pokémon.  These were called Pokémon-ex, and were worth an extra Prize when KO'd.  Note the lower-case "ex", because it matters!  These are not the same as Pokémon-EX in the PTCGO; card effects which refer to one will not apply to the other!  Mechanically, Pokémon-ex have more in common with Pokémon-GX than Pokémon-ex, but I'm getting ahead of myself.  Pokémon-ex were the same Stage as their "regular" counterparts, evolving from the same previous Stage of evolution e.g. Gardevoir-ex evolves from Kirlia (or Ralts with a Rare Candy).  Being a Pokémon-ex means at least a slightly higher HP score (sometimes substantially higher), can affect other stats, and improved effects... at least, "improved" relative to the costs for the effects.  Pokémon-ex intended to be very powerful may have double Weakness... as in, taking double damage from two different types!

 

The next multi-Prize Pokémon were Pokémon LEGEND, introduced in HeartGold & SoulSilver (February 10, 2010). The gimmick with these Pokémon is that they came in "halves", with each half being a full card.  You had to have both halves in hand to play them, but they still only used up a single "space" on your Bench or as your Active.  They were worth two Prizes when KO'd, and again had better stats and/or effects, relative to what their baseline counterparts would have.  All Pokémon featured in Pokémon LEGEND cards were what we refer to as "Legendaries" in the video games.  Most (but not all) of these cards featured more than one Pokémon in the name and art, making them the predecessor of TAG TEAM Pokémon.

 

In BW - Next Destinies (February 8, 2012), Pokémon-EX debuted.  At first, this was used only for "Legendary" Pokémon, so they were all Basics.  They were again worth an extra Prize when KO'd, and had better stats (usually just more HP) than their baseline counterparts, and better effects (relative to the costs of those effects).  In BW - Legendary Treasures (November 6, 2013), the last set of the Black & White series, we got our first non-Legendary Pokémon-EX.  Even though they were based on Evolutions, they were still Basic Pokémon!  I already mentioned that Pokémon-ex are not the same as Pokémon-EX in terms of game mechanics, but I should also mention that Pokémon-EX all have more HP than Pokémon-ex.  Most of this is due to power creep, but still worth noting.

 

XY (February 5, 2014) ran with this, using the EX mechanic to introduce Mega Evolutions to the Pokémon TCG.  "Mega" was both its own mechanic and its own Stage of evolution.  Mega Pokémon "Mega evolved" from the corresponding Pokémon-EX e.g. M Manectric-EX Mega evolved from Manectric-EX.  This makes them similar to Stage 1 Pokémon and Pokémon VMAX except it can't be that simple.  Besides being worth two-Prizes when KO'd, "Mega Evolving" ends your turn.  Eventually, we started receiving "Spirit Link" cards.  These were Tools, and they were specific to a particular Mega Evolution e.g. Manectric Spirit Link, Mewtwo Spirit Link, etc.  These cards kept your turn from ending, assuming you met the requirements e.g. a Manectric-EX with Manectric Spirit Link equipped could Mega Evolve into M Manectric-EX without your turn ending.  For all the hassle, Mega Evolutions had even higher HP scores - and often better effects - than the Basic Pokémon-EX from which they evolved.  Another thing worth mentioning quickly, is that typical HP scores for Basic Pokémon-EX increased slightly at this time, and it was actually a Basic Pokémon-EX which held the max printed HP record (Wailord-EX).

 

Pokémon-GX were introduced in Sun & Moon (February 3, 2017).  Most are worth two Prizes when KO'd, and are the same Stage as their baseline counterparts; like the original Pokémon-ex, you simply evolve from the corresponding previous Stage e.g. Gardevoir-GX evolves from Kirlia (or Ralts with a Rare Candy).  They have better stats (usually more HP) than their baseline counterparts, and better effects (relative to costs).  All Pokémon-GX also have a "GX-attack", an attack that may be used only once during your game.  Barring abject failures, GX-attacks are more potent than non-GX attacks, all other factors (like Energy costs) being equal.  In SM - Team Up, we got the first TAG TEAM Pokémon (give or take some promos).  TAG TEAM Pokémon are always Pokémon-GX, but are Basics instead of their usual Stages.  Stages, "plural", because they feature two Pokémon in both their name and art.  I believe all of them also have GX-attacks with variable effects; usually one if you just pay the printed Energy cost, and another if you use enough "extra Energy" or meet some other condition (specified in the attack's effect text).  These are the first three Prize Pokémon, but their HP scores and effects are suitably beefed up.  Once again, power creep is in effect; Pokémon-GX have a little more HP than their equivalent Pokémon-EX forms, though I am comparing evolved Pokémon-GX to Mega Evolutions.

 

Finally, we get to Pokémon V, which can be broken down into Basic Pokémon V or evolved Pokémon V.  All evolved Pokémon V are Pokémon VMAX; if a card effect refers to Pokémon V, it also works on Pokémon VMAX, but effects that specify Pokémon VMAX do not work on Basic Pokémon V.  As with Mega Evolutions, "VMAX" is both the name of a mechanic and a Stage of evolution.  Basic Pokémon V are worth two Prizes when KO'd, while Pokémon VMAX are worth three.  Even if a Pokémon that is normally an evolution, like Cinderace, is released as a Pokémon V, it will be a Basic Pokémon instead.  Basic Pokémon V have better stats (usually more HP) than their regular counterparts, as well as Basic Pokémon-GX excluding TAG TEAM Pokémon.  Card effects are also stronger than their baseline counter parts, as always adjusting for the effects "cost" and ignoring whether or not it is actually a competitive effect.  Pokémon VMAX are even bigger and "stronger" than Basic Pokémon V, and currently have three divisions that are clearly identified on the cards, but so far have no mechanics or effects which reference them: Gigantamax, Dynamax, and Eternamax.

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On 8/24/2020 at 11:50 PM, Otakutron said:

No Grass Pokémon in the PTCGO are [W] Weak, and only one in the entire physical card game.

This was a bold enough claim I felt the need to fact-check it. :P

 

The card database on the pokemon.com, which I assume is what other people were using, is of course a great resource, but it only goes back to the ex series.  Having spent half an hour digging through old pokemon setlists, I can now confirm that that cradily, weak due to its rock secondary type, is the only water-weak grass type in the English PTCG.

 

It's possible that there's a Japanese-only exception, but unlikely.

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@SuperStone It is good to fact-check such claims.  I used both the official database and an unofficial one (which covers the entirety of North American, English-language releases) to verify... because going by memory I didn't remember any Grass types being Water Weak. XD

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