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Bellelba & Brycen-Man and Mismagius banned from Standard; Errata for both cards announced

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Raticate555

The go with banning the Mismagius is that if you get rid of all the ways to give up prize cards, Stamp + Jessie & James wouldn't be a problem anymore. Banning Stamp would effect everyone as Stamp is in almost every deck and a great come back card too. Banning Dusk Stone wouldn't work because the Mismagius player could go 1st and set up 3-4 Misdreaves turn 1.

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Otakutron
2 hours ago, Raticate555 said:

The go with banning the Mismagius is that if you get rid of all the ways to give up prize cards, Stamp + Jessie & James wouldn't be a problem anymore.

 

I consider Stamp existing to be a problem.  Simply put, I don't like these kinds of effects in the game.

 

2 hours ago, Raticate555 said:

Banning Stamp would effect everyone as Stamp is in almost every deck and a great come back card too.

 

Lysandre's Trump Card was a staple and was banned, so that TPC/TPCi consider that a valid reason not to ban a card.

 

Why should comeback cards, at least, those effective enough to see heavy competitive play, exist?  If you're behind because your opponent played better than you, they've earned their lead, haven't they?  If it is because of too much "luck" in the game, better to fix that problem instead of just "patch" over it with cards like these... that can't discriminate between someone pulling ahead through "luck" and someone falling behind because their opponent is just the better player (or at least, has the better deck).

 

Fortunately, by now it is clear Reset Stamp is not a come-from-behind card.  Prize cards are an unreliable metric over who is winning, until someone takes their last Prize.  This has been true for so long, the design team must realize this and thus want to create effects that are easier for certain deck strategies to employ.  If that is the case, then I can understand such cards existing...

 

...but not Reset Stamp specifically.  Why?  Shuffling your opponent's hand away may not seem powerful, but a very valuable TCG skill in many games - including past Pokémon formats - is knowing how to cultivate a good hand.  For those who don't think such a skill should be valuable in Pokémon, we simply disagree, and I can understand why Reset Stamp would not bother you...

 

...but the writing is on the wall.  Reset Stamp is the kind of hand disruption that keeps being part of combos broken enough to get something banned.  Even if one allows that the cards which were banned are the main problem, this kind of association suggests Reset Stamp is a problem waiting to happen.

 

2 hours ago, Raticate555 said:

Banning Dusk Stone wouldn't work because the Mismagius player could go 1st and set up 3-4 Misdreaves turn 1.

 

If using Misdreavous on a player's second turn was a concern, Magneton (SM - Cosmic Eclipse 69/236) would have been banned as well.  I think the reason the powers-that-be aren't worried is because the player going second gets a full turn before their hand could potentially be stripped of them.  The only thing that player cannot do is manually evolve.

 

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SuperStone

I think @Otakutron has a point, in that reset stamp serves basically the same role as delinquent, though it can't be used early-game.  This makes it more likely to be banned.

 

I don't like the card at all myself, though not because of its prize-reversal nature.  I simply wish that they wouldn't put effects that strong on item cards.  N has never seemed oppressive to me, but reset stamp is a bit much.

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oTurtles
10 hours ago, Otakutron said:

SOP is that a counter for it will release within the next two sets core sets (and associated releases).  It is just how they do things in Pokémon.

 

What is SOP?

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Otakutron
17 hours ago, SuperStone said:

I don't like the card at all myself, though not because of its prize-reversal nature.  I simply wish that they wouldn't put effects that strong on item cards.  N has never seemed oppressive to me, but reset stamp is a bit much.

 

That's part of my concern as well.

 

The general reason for the hand control (or even just disruption) that has actually been banned is that it can be used on a player's first turn, where it is disproportionately potent.  It used to be just the first turn of the game, but I'm guessing even being used Turn 2 (Player 2's first turn) is enough to warrant at least keeping some cards banned.

 

I realize not everyone minded N; it is a Supporter, so while it could do more for you (disrupt their hand and you draw), besides backfiring, at least you couldn't easily use it an then use another Supporter.  Plus, now it isn't a T1 option.

 

15 hours ago, oTurtles said:

What is SOP?

 

Standard Operating Procedure.  Sometimes the "S" is for "Standing", such as in the military where it may not be "standard" (the same unit to unit) but is still the default or regular practice for that unit.  Perhaps I should have said MO (modus operandi) instead.  Both are meant to suggest that this is just how the powers-that-be do it:

  1. Release strong card.
  2. 3-9 months later, release counter to strong card.

SOP suggests it is thoroughly planned to happen that way, MO just means it is how they usually operate.

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Raticate555
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Otakutron said:

 

I consider Stamp existing to be a problem.  Simply put, I don't like these kinds of effects in the game.

 

 

Lysandre's Trump Card was a staple and was banned, so that TPC/TPCi consider that a valid reason not to ban a card.

 

Why should comeback cards, at least, those effective enough to see heavy competitive play, exist?  If you're behind because your opponent played better than you, they've earned their lead, haven't they?  If it is because of too much "luck" in the game, better to fix that problem instead of just "patch" over it with cards like these... that can't discriminate between someone pulling ahead through "luck" and someone falling behind because their opponent is just the better player (or at least, has the better deck).

 

Fortunately, by now it is clear Reset Stamp is not a come-from-behind card.  Prize cards are an unreliable metric over who is winning, until someone takes their last Prize.  This has been true for so long, the design team must realize this and thus want to create effects that are easier for certain deck strategies to employ.  If that is the case, then I can understand such cards existing...

 

...but not Reset Stamp specifically.  Why?  Shuffling your opponent's hand away may not seem powerful, but a very valuable TCG skill in many games - including past Pokémon formats - is knowing how to cultivate a good hand.  For those who don't think such a skill should be valuable in Pokémon, we simply disagree, and I can understand why Reset Stamp would not bother you...

 

...but the writing is on the wall.  Reset Stamp is the kind of hand disruption that keeps being part of combos broken enough to get something banned.  Even if one allows that the cards which were banned are the main problem, this kind of association suggests Reset Stamp is a problem waiting to happen.

 

 

If using Misdreavous on a player's second turn was a concern, Magneton (SM - Cosmic Eclipse 69/236) would have been banned as well.  I think the reason the powers-that-be aren't worried is because the player going second gets a full turn before their hand could potentially be stripped of them.  The only thing that player cannot do is manually evolve.

 

 

I can see what you are saying and I agree with it. Banning Stamp would take two problem birds (Mismagius Hand Lock and Cincinno Hand Lock) with one stone and also solve all the other problems with the card. The only reason I can think of to ban Mismagius over Stamp is that Pokemon want Stamp in the format, they have planned ahead and Stamp is part of that plan. Or maybe they just decided to go for the first glance obvious ban.

Edited by Raticate555
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Ash101416744

Pokemon should start taking some ideas from yugioh on limiting their cards. They could make it so that B&B keeps you from attacking that turn or mismagius's ability can not used the turn it evolves or the first turn if it was evolved via dusk stone.

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Otakutron
1 hour ago, Ash101416744 said:

Pokemon should start taking some ideas from yugioh on limiting their cards. They could make it so that B&B keeps you from attacking that turn or mismagius's ability can not used the turn it evolves or the first turn if it was evolved via dusk stone.

 

They might... remember, these cards aren't permanently gone.  They're basically being errata'd... but I guess things are so bad that they're going to ban these versions for now, while they work on safely nerfing the replacements we've been told are on the way.

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Ash101416744
45 minutes ago, Otakutron said:

 

They might... remember, these cards aren't permanently gone.  They're basically being errata'd... but I guess things are so bad that they're going to ban these versions for now, while they work on safely nerfing the replacements we've been told are on the way.

Yeah right, "told", more like they're probably lying to us.

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Otakutron

They showed us the new art.  Why are you doubting them?

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