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Propogation Exeggcute bug. (expanded)


guruguy87
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So I noticed this when I was playing with a deck in expanded where I have 4 of these cards in my deck. Excellent discard fodder and then return the card back to your hand to do again next turn. The THING IS you don't need to wait until next turn with the current bug. The ability states "ONCE DURING YOUR TURN before you attack if this card is in your discard pile you may return it to your hand".... Key phrase, ONCE. The problem is a current bug is allowing this to be done OVER AND OVER AND OVER again in the same turn with a SINGLE exeggcute using the ability far more than once per turn. Pokemon please test and confirm what I'm saying and fix ASAP. 

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The thing that you have noticed @guruguy87 has been discussed on previous posts. The conclusion that was decided upon was that although an ability may state "Once per turn", the ability is reset each time the card enters an unknown zone, like the hand or the deck. This is true for ALL abilities, not just Propagation. This is why Scoop Up Net has also been accused of being "broken", it allows Pokemon to reuse their "Once per turn" abilities multiple times.

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Q. If I use Exeggcute's "Propagation" Ability to retrieve it from the Discard Pile into my hand, then use something like Ultra Ball or Computer Search to discard Exeggcute, would I be able to use "Propagation" again to retrieve it from the Discard Pile?
A. Yes, whenever Exeggcute is in the Discard Pile, you may use Propagation during your turn as long as its Ability has not been disabled. (Plasma Freeze FAQ; May 16, 2013 TPCi Rules Team)

 

I suspect, if they were to release a similar card in the future, they would just remove the "Once per turn..." clause.

Edited by Otakutron
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Thanks for that ellomello and Okutraon... :)

(high negativity alert) Well the conclusion that pokemon decided upon is the incorrect conclusion. Pffff.... The more things come up and I hear about "rulings made" by TPCi the more I am starting to come to the very sad conclusion that pokemon doesn't know what on earth it is doing period. Allowing some things based on rules, while completely excusing other things based on some different set of excuse making "new" rules. It's bonkers wild west out of control buffoonery. Why even make cards with any rules or parameters at all? Some cards allowed to be broken and other cards not allowed. Most cards severely broken still allowed (esp in standard where nothing is ever banned, being quite broken) and often various combinations made that become highly unbalanced and unhealthy for the game.

The "State of the Game" as it were in my opinion is not healthy. (Almost every game is over within 5 turns or less in standard, mostly cuz of ADP, but pikarom and dragapult big reason for that too) If cards were eliminated from standard that were broken and cards in expanded were properly ruled based on other rulings then there would be more of a smooth standard and not blatant inconsistency identified. This might be one of my last posts ever since I'm quite quite disenchanted with what I thought was a very fun game of pokemon. I do still enjoy it, but a whole lot less than I once did. I'm always seeing a crazy combination and alot of other stuff I could mention, but I'm at that stage of "what is the point"? Because when TPCi makes an incorrect ruling anyway you don't feel any justification or satisfaction that they will do the right thing. So I'm just plucking along, waiting for darkness ablaze and more broken combos to come from that. lol. Maybe I need a new fun hobby other than pokemon cards? I just miss the days when games were longer, more strategic and comeback wins were not only more possible, but more satisfying. (days of single prize cards) Is it still possible? Sure, but a whole lot less so. That power creep is just bonkers. So many irrelevant under-powered cards now... 

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-18 my current reputation. I no longer care to appease the fellow forum members. Don't care to pander and get your "likes"... Pffff...  I should just keep racking it down and go for a -1,000. lol.
Hmmm... What is the lowest minus ranking any forum member has ever received yet still be a consistent commentator? Thing is, I still feel like I make a ton of good points. Maybe I just don't express them in the "best most wonderfully positive way". Never been good at sugarcoating turds. If a turd is a turd why place sugar on it? Nope, just call it out. Then change the diaper. bahahaha. (Solutions not problems is the analogy here) 

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18 hours ago, guruguy87 said:

Thanks for that ellomello and Okutraon... :)

(high negativity alert) Well the conclusion that pokemon decided upon is the incorrect conclusion. Pffff.... The more things come up and I hear about "rulings made" by TPCi the more I am starting to come to the very sad conclusion that pokemon doesn't know what on earth it is doing period. Allowing some things based on rules, while completely excusing other things based on some different set of excuse making "new" rules. It's bonkers wild west out of control buffoonery. Why even make cards with any rules or parameters at all? Some cards allowed to be broken and other cards not allowed. Most cards severely broken still allowed (esp in standard where nothing is ever banned, being quite broken) and often various combinations made that become highly unbalanced and unhealthy for the game.

The "State of the Game" as it were in my opinion is not healthy. (Almost every game is over within 5 turns or less in standard, mostly cuz of ADP, but pikarom and dragapult big reason for that too) If cards were eliminated from standard that were broken and cards in expanded were properly ruled based on other rulings then there would be more of a smooth standard and not blatant inconsistency identified. This might be one of my last posts ever since I'm quite quite disenchanted with what I thought was a very fun game of pokemon. I do still enjoy it, but a whole lot less than I once did. I'm always seeing a crazy combination and alot of other stuff I could mention, but I'm at that stage of "what is the point"? Because when TPCi makes an incorrect ruling anyway you don't feel any justification or satisfaction that they will do the right thing. So I'm just plucking along, waiting for darkness ablaze and more broken combos to come from that. lol. Maybe I need a new fun hobby other than pokemon cards? I just miss the days when games were longer, more strategic and comeback wins were not only more possible, but more satisfying. (days of single prize cards) Is it still possible? Sure, but a whole lot less so. That power creep is just bonkers. So many irrelevant under-powered cards now... 

Stop playing then. I'm not here trying to get you to leave, but come on man. Remember some threads that you have put up where you went off like this? I'll say what @Sakura150612 said to you over there, you can voice your opinion, but good luck finding a decent amount of people that will take your side.

 

But if like nothing is the case, and you're just hating on the game, please spare us XD.

 

Have you tried HearthStone? It's pretty fun. That's an option I guess.

 

 

 

18 hours ago, guruguy87 said:

-18 my current reputation. I no longer care to appease the fellow forum members. Don't care to pander and get your "likes"... Pffff...  I should just keep racking it down and go for a -1,000. lol.
Hmmm... What is the lowest minus ranking any forum member has ever received yet still be a consistent commentator? Thing is, I still feel like I make a ton of good points. Maybe I just don't express them in the "best most wonderfully positive way". Never been good at sugarcoating turds. If a turd is a turd why place sugar on it? Nope, just call it out. Then change the diaper. bahahaha. (Solutions not problems is the analogy here) 

Bro.....

 

Wait, Now that you mention it, I have seen like a -100 I think I'm some older posts. Maybe as some others have told me, (the infamous user Xensor), had less.

 

No, you don't at all express them in a positive way. A lot of your posts are just negative, and I'm sure that you know you'll just receive downvotes, but hey, if that is how you want to voice your opinion, I won't stop you, because I can't.

 

I don't think anyone is just trying to get their likes. I just think that everybody is doing the best they can to help others, and we're lucky to have them. To add, that's a very rude thing to say too. In the end, you can't prove it.

 

I'll just give you a couple of upvotes, because I think that nobody deserves to have a negative rep, even when I disagree with almost everything that they say XD. I think that we both dislike this whole rep thing, but hey, you don't have to be rude about it.

 

As someone once told me, deal with it. Lol

Edited by WingsofFire1014
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@guruguy87, the Pokémon TCG comes as a package deal. Either take the good parts and the bad parts together and just play the game, or reject them both and find a game more to your liking. 

Edited by Dirnt54
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Here's the thing; the card is actually poorly worded. It's not a problem of the card not doing what it's intended to do or having an effect that is broken, it's a problem of the designers of the card adding a piece of text that's completely pointless. @ellomello044208 already explained why "once per turn" is not an actual restriction for a card whose ability consist of moving from one zone of the game to another and @Otakutron confirmed it with the TPCi ruling, so I'm not gonna go into that. I'm just gonna say that what PCL should have done with the card is either 1) Remove the "oncee per turn" text altogether, or 2) Word the restriction in this very specific manner: "You can't use more than 1 Propagation ability each turn." 

 

Considering that they never gave the card an errata despite having full power to do so my guess is that TCPi is actually fine, from a balance point of view, with Propagation being able to be used any number of times per turn. However, I still think they should have given the card an errata to remove the "once per turn" text because it's very prone to creating confusion.

 

On 7/30/2020 at 1:46 AM, guruguy87 said:

Hmmm... What is the lowest minus ranking any forum member has ever received yet still be a consistent commentator?

Xensor. He made it to a little above (below? dunno, negatives are funny like that) -100, and then he got perma banned. Not that his reputation had anything to do with his ban, mind you. He had a bad habit of picking fights with the mods and sending (presumably) very angry messages to the support team. We'll never know the truth because disciplinary matters are always handled privately, but it's not hard to imagine how he got himself banished to the shadow realm.

 

On 7/30/2020 at 1:46 AM, guruguy87 said:

Thing is, I still feel like I make a ton of good points.

Well... you really don't. Don't get me wrong, you ARE right sometimes, but more often than not you're either 1) Flat out wrong, or 2) Too angry to make a valid point despite (probably) having something to say that's actually worth saying. It's obvious that when it comes to rulings you just don't understand how the rulings work. I'll give you that in this particular case the wording is rather poor and there are many other people who've made the same mistake as you. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I myself reported this same "bug" many years ago and I got totally rekt for it. But with stuff like your Bellelba & Brycen-Man thread (yes, I'm aware that it just got banned, but it was banned for balance reasons and not because it was working incorrectly) or your Axew thread it becomes evident than you don't have too great of a grasp on the mechanics of the game and that you don't have much of an intention of learning or accepting them. You want the game to work exactly how you like it, and if it doesn't you claim that it's TPCi/PCL who messed up and not you.

 

On 7/30/2020 at 1:46 AM, guruguy87 said:

Maybe I just don't express them in the "best most wonderfully positive way".

I think that something that you don't understand is that it's not just the content that matters but also the form. You're entitled to have any opinion you want and no one can take that away from you, but if you also want to get other people to share your opinion then the form in which you express it is just as important as the opinion itself. Allow me to continue with your analogy; you say there is no point is sugarcoating a turd, but let me ask you this: what if you were the only one who saw it as a turd? You won't convince anyone by just insisting ad-nauseum that what we have in front of us is a load of ****, which is pretty much what you've done up until now and the reason why no one seems to agree with you even when you do have a point to make.

 

Take your Bellelba & Brycen-Man thread as an example. Lets leave aside the fact that ruling-wise you were (and still are) completely wrong and focus on the fact that the card could be frustrating to play against and makes the play environment less enjoyable (which is a valid opinion as well as the official reason why it's being banned). I know that hindsight is 20/20, but if you had left aside your complaints about the exact ruling (which, I insist, were wrong), avoided antagonizing the community which was simply trying to help you and instead calmly explained that you personally felt that the effect of the card is frustrating to deal with, I assure you that you wouldn't have gotten the negative response you got and you would have even had a few (or even several) people agreeing with you. And now, with the ban of Bellelba & Brycen-Man, you would have been completely vindicated even in the eyes of the people who still disagreed with you. But with the way things turned out? Even though I must admit you at least had a point (since, you know, the card is being freaking banned) I'm still left feeling like you were mostly wrong, and with your track record I still feel like you'll be mostly wrong about most of the things you say in the future (which isn't necessarily correct, but it's how you've set yourself up to be perceived by others).

 

I kind of went off in a tangent, but the TL;DR of my point is this: there IS a point to trying to be an effective communicator. I'll call it that rather than "sugarcoating a turd" because trying to make something bad look good (or at least less bad) is simply one of the things you can do with proper persuasion and it's not the main thing you should be using it for anyway. You don't have to be positive about everything, but even when expressing something that is in essence "negative" you can be reasonable about it, and if you are you'll find a lot more people agreeing with you than when you just (figuratively) yell, call every other thing dumb/silly/buffoonery or any other of the many synonyms you seem to have for that concept and even sometimes attack the people trying to explain things to you in the most reasonable manner possible (no, I still haven't forgotten that you called me and a few others a "keyboard warrior" on one of your early threads).

 

Now, if you tell me that you don't care at all about what other think about your opinions and posts, then welp... I don't know why even mention your negative whatever reputation when you should literally not care about it in the least bit. I think I should remind you as well that forums are meant for discussion, and while discussions won't always lead to agreement, if we don't at least have the intention to have a reasonable exchange of opinions and all we do is insist on our own beliefs while on full allcaps rage mode then there's no point to having a discussion in the first place.

 

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11 minutes ago, Sakura150612 said:

Here's the thing; the card is actually poorly worded. It's not a problem of the card not doing what it's intended to do or having an effect that is broken, it's a problem of the designers of the card adding a piece of text that's completely pointless. @ellomello044208 already explained why "once per turn" is not an actual restriction for a card whose ability consist of moving from one zone of the game to another and @Otakutron confirmed it with the TPCi ruling, so I'm not gonna go into that. I'm just gonna say that what PCL should have done with the card is either 1) Remove the "oncee per turn" text altogether, or 2) Word the restriction in this very specific manner: "You can't use more than 1 Propagation ability each turn." 

 

Considering that they never gave the card an errata despite having full power to do so my guess is that TCPi is actually fine, from a balance point of view, with Propagation being able to be used any number of times per turn. However, I still think they should have given the card an errata to remove the "once per turn" text because it's very prone to creating confusion.

 

Xensor. He made it to a little above (below? dunno, negatives are funny like that) -100, and then he got perma banned. Not that his reputation had anything to do with his ban, mind you. He had a bad habit of picking fights with the mods and sending (presumably) very angry messages to the support team. We'll never know the truth because disciplinary matters are always handled privately, but it's not hard to imagine how he got himself banished to the shadow realm.

 

Well... you really don't. Don't get me wrong, you ARE right sometimes, but more often than not you're either 1) Flat out wrong, or 2) Too angry to make a valid point despite (probably) having something to say that's actually worth saying. It's obvious that when it comes to rulings you just don't understand how the rulings work. I'll give you that in this particular case the wording is rather poor and there are many other people who've made the same mistake as you. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I myself reported this same "bug" many years ago and I got totally rekt for it. But with stuff like your Bellelba & Brycen-Man thread (yes, I'm aware that it just got banned, but it was banned for balance reasons and not because it was working incorrectly) or your Axew thread it becomes evident than you don't have too great of a grasp on the mechanics of the game and that you don't have much of an intention of learning or accepting them. You want the game to work exactly how you like it, and if it doesn't you claim that it's TPCi/PCL who messed up and not you.

 

I think that something that you don't understand is that it's not just the content that matters but also the form. You're entitled to have any opinion you want and no one can take that away from you, but if you also want to get other people to share your opinion then the form in which you express it is just as important as the opinion itself. Allow me to continue with your analogy; you say there is no point is sugarcoating a turd, but let me ask you this: what if you were the only one who saw it as a turd? You won't convince anyone by just insisting ad-nauseum that what we have in front of us is a load of ****, which is pretty much what you've done up until now and the reason why no one seems to agree with you even when you do have a point to make.

 

Take your Bellelba & Brycen-Man thread as an example. Lets leave aside the fact that ruling-wise you were (and still are) completely wrong and focus on the fact that the card could be frustrating to play against and makes the play environment less enjoyable (which is a valid opinion as well as the official reason why it's being banned). I know that hindsight is 20/20, but if you had left aside your complaints about the exact ruling (which, I insist, were wrong), avoided antagonizing the community which was simply trying to help you and instead calmly explained that you personally felt that the effect of the card is frustrating to deal with, I assure you that you wouldn't have gotten the negative response you got and you would have even had a few (or even several) people agreeing with you. And now, with the ban of Bellelba & Brycen-Man, you would have been completely vindicated even in the eyes of the people who still disagreed with you. But with the way things turned out? Even though I must admit you at least had a point (since, you know, the card is being freaking banned) I'm still left feeling like you were mostly wrong, and with your track record I still feel like you'll be mostly wrong about most of the things you say in the future (which isn't necessarily correct, but it's how you've set yourself up to be perceived by others).

 

I kind of went off in a tangent, but the TL;DR of my point is this: there IS a point to trying to be an effective communicator. I'll call it that rather than "sugarcoating a turd" because trying to make something bad look good (or at least less bad) is simply one of the things you can do with proper persuasion and it's not the main thing you should be using it for anyway. You don't have to be positive about everything, but even when expressing something that is in essence "negative" you can be reasonable about it, and if you are you'll find a lot more people agreeing with you than when you just (figuratively) yell, call every other thing dumb/silly/buffoonery or any other of the many synonyms you seem to have for that concept and even sometimes attack the people trying to explain things to you in the most reasonable manner possible (no, I still haven't forgotten that you called me and a few others a "keyboard warrior" on one of your early threads).

 

Now, if you tell me that you don't care at all about what other think about your opinions and posts, then welp... I don't know why even mention your negative whatever reputation when you should literally not care about it in the least bit. I think I should remind you as well that forums are meant for discussion, and while discussions won't always lead to agreement, if we don't at least have the intention to have a reasonable exchange of opinions and all we do is insist on our own beliefs while on full allcaps rage mode then there's no point to having a discussion in the first place.

 

I wish that I could give this more than one like.

 

This has got to get to you @guruguy87. It's all true. You've got to change the way that you express your opinions.

 

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8 minutes ago, WingsofFire1014 said:

I wish that I could give this more than one like.

 

This has got to get to you @guruguy87. It's all true. You've got to change the way that you express your opinions.

 

 

I have no doubt if you (guruguy87) change the way in which you express your opinions, your advice/thoughts will be looked for. I think you generally do have good points.

Edited by Dirnt54
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12 hours ago, guruguy87 said:

Dealing with it. lol. :)

 

Quoting this since I'm not sure it was seen...

 

...or perhaps it wasn't understood.  guruguy87, correct me if I'm wrong, but I took this as you saying [You're] dealing with it.  I have added context, though.

 

Simply put, I took the conversation to PM.  I think that may have been the right decision.  I wasn't going to mention it here, but I think guruguy87 is - again - learning to deal with it.  Because for some of us, it really does require that; I used to be as frustrated as he is by the wording on a lot of these cards.  You've all likely seen me make a fool of myself ranting and raving when I should just be politely stating my position, or presenting a counterargument.

 

So, let us be careful not to unintentionally dog pile on someone who is already coming around. ;)

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6 hours ago, Otakutron said:

 

Quoting this since I'm not sure it was seen...

 

...or perhaps it wasn't understood.  guruguy87, correct me if I'm wrong, but I took this as you saying [You're] dealing with it.  I have added context, though.

 

Simply put, I took the conversation to PM.  I think that may have been the right decision.  I wasn't going to mention it here, but I think guruguy87 is - again - learning to deal with it.  Because for some of us, it really does require that; I used to be as frustrated as he is by the wording on a lot of these cards.  You've all likely seen me make a fool of myself ranting and raving when I should just be politely stating my position, or presenting a counterargument.

 

So, let us be careful not to unintentionally dog pile on someone who is already coming around. ;)

 

Exactly! This is what I've been trying to express in a roundabout way. Unfortunately I'm not good with words, but I'm glad someone who is noticed it too :) 

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  • 6 months later...
On 7/30/2020 at 6:46 AM, guruguy87 said:

-18 my current reputation. I no longer care to appease the fellow forum members. Don't care to pander and get your "likes"... Pffff...  I should just keep racking it down and go for a -1,000. lol.
Hmmm... What is the lowest minus ranking any forum member has ever received yet still be a consistent commentator? Thing is, I still feel like I make a ton of good points. Maybe I just don't express them in the "best most wonderfully positive way". Never been good at sugarcoating turds. If a turd is a turd why place sugar on it? Nope, just call it out. Then change the diaper. bahahaha. (Solutions not problems is the analogy here) 

Haha my reputation is like a yoyo here. But I've never been scared of sharing my actual heartfelt opinion...

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7 hours ago, nekoshounen said:

Haha my reputation is like a yoyo here. But I've never been scared of sharing my actual heartfelt opinion...

 

I think you're misrepresenting what happened here. =/

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+71? You really need to get ranting if you want that -1000. 😃

 

I agree with saying what you believe but I think the way you say it changes everything.

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