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Will Pikarom still be viable even after Post Rotation?


Ash101416744
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I'm assuming no. It's losing a ton of it's key cards like Thunder Mountain, Electorpower, Zeraora GX, and Volkner.

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1 minute ago, Ash101416744 said:

I'm assuming no. It's losing a ton of it's key cards like Thunder Mountain, Electorpower, Zeraora GX, and Volkner.

Actually, I would like to disagree.

I think Pikarom will still be somewhat viable post rotation.  Thunder Mountain and Electropower are the cards rotating that matter most.  Thunder mountain allowed you to pull off a turn 1 Full Blitz a lot easier without energy switch, and E-power allowed Pikarom to hit for insane numbers and take OHKO's.  With E-power rotating, that isn't possible.  These key cards will no longer be use-able in standard, so Pikarom won't be AS viable as before.  It will obviously drop down in ranking, but it will still be viable and playable, just slower, less consistent, or both (kinda like how Reshizard is at the moment).

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Well, I agree with both points. It could stay a contender with reduced damage and speed but I think it will really come down to how the Darkness Ablaze meta shapes up. If a consistent variant of Eternatus Vmax pops up, Pikarom will get destroyed. Without E-Power even a 2HKO is a stretch, which wouldn't make it viable.

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4 hours ago, Raticate555 said:

Well, I agree with both points. It could stay a contender with reduced damage and speed but I think it will really come down to how the Darkness Ablaze meta shapes up. If a consistent variant of Eternatus Vmax pops up, Pikarom will get destroyed. Without E-Power even a 2HKO is a stretch, which wouldn't make it viable.


Good point @Raticate555, I didn't consider Darkness Ablaze in my post.  Post-rotation, WITHOUT Darkness Ablaze (which isn't possible, I know), theoretically Pikarom is going to be as I posted here:

22 hours ago, NL168 said:

I think Pikarom will still be somewhat viable post rotation.  Thunder Mountain and Electropower are the cards rotating that matter most.  Thunder mountain allowed you to pull off a turn 1 Full Blitz a lot easier without energy switch, and E-power allowed Pikarom to hit for insane numbers and take OHKO's.  With E-power rotating, that isn't possible.  These key cards will no longer be use-able in standard, so Pikarom won't be AS viable as before.  It will obviously drop down in ranking, but it will still be viable and playable, just slower, less consistent, or both (kinda like how Reshizard is at the moment).

 

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But if Pikarom does survive rotation, some of it's recent matchups (Baby Blowns) it has trouble with may get a lot easier, especially due to losing Thunder Mountain, which gives Pikarom the option to play Swell, which completely crushes Blowns without Fiery Flint, which could make it played slightly more than you would think.

Edited by Guykid121
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Baby Blowns is already garbadge anyway due to Dragapult VMAX. Marnie and Reset Stamp ruins this deck as well.

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@Ash101416744 I wouldn’t go so far as to call Baby Blowns trash against Dragapult VMAX. The matchup is pretty even, considering that Baby Blowns can OHKO Dragapult VMAX and Dragapult can pull of multi-Prize turns against Blowns. Marnie and Reset Stamp can certainly stop the deck, but if Blowns has Jirachi/Oricorio GX in play, the limited hand isn’t as bad. 

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Blowns losing flint will (in my opinion) hurt it enough to push it back from the top tiers. It reduces it's speed and it will lean more on a big hand late game which would be easily ruined by a Stamp + KO. No Burst GX for an easy win either, VMAX decks will force it to a 8 prize game or at least make them to use Cramorant V.

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7 hours ago, Guykid121 said:

But if Pikarom does survive rotation, some of it's recent matchups (Baby Blowns) it has trouble with may get a lot easier, especially due to losing Thunder Mountain, which gives Pikarom the option to play Swell, which completely crushes Blowns without Fiery Flint, which could make it played slightly more than you would think.

 
I'm a new player,  and don't have everything for the deck.  I often have to do things in odd orders to make the deck work (I don't have ZeraoraGX) and personally after playing the deck quite a bit over the last few days, thunder mountain is a hefty blow, but not unmanageable.   What I think is going to really hurt, is Volkner.   It allows for constant, non-preventable damage in the form of Switch making normal counter plays that would take more than one turn to solve such as Boss's Orders, or Phione, fairly useless cards against the deck.    Keep in mind, I've had to deal with this regularly as I don't have the option to tutor for Zeraora because I don't have one; I can say that not being able to tutor a Switch whenever I need one is going to be rough.  I'm not sure what a primary retreat reduction method would be besides maybe double escape board or Air Balloon, which seem awful at more than a miser.  As mention before, I don't have a lot of experience with the game though, so I'd believe it if someone just said "Duh! We're just going to use [insert option here].


 

26 minutes ago, Raticate555 said:

Blowns losing flint will (in my opinion) hurt it enough to push it back from the top tiers. It reduces it's speed and it will lean more on a big hand late game which would be easily ruined by a Stamp + KO. No Burst GX for an easy win either, VMAX decks will force it to a 8 prize game or at least make them to use Cramorant V.


Cramorant V seems like something I could definitely see coming up in pairs in future lists of PikaRom.  I don't know there would be something better, but seems like a solid t1 going second.

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@ScoozeBlues many Pikarom decks (including the one that one the Limitless Qualifier 3) have transitioned away from Volkner already. While this change may seem somewhat strange, as their decks are losing the Item card versatility that Volkner allows for, Pikarom has still been able to find consistency in good old draw supporters like Professor’s Research and Marnie. 

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Personally I really like Baby Blowns, which brings me to say that Blowns still has access to cards to counter cards like Marnie and Reset stamp which is more specifically Lucky Egg. Sure, it only works if it is knocked out by damage, but it works on all pokemon, such as Jirachi.

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2 minutes ago, ellomello044208 said:

@ScoozeBlues many Pikarom decks (including the one that one the Limitless Qualifier 3) have transitioned away from Volkner already. While this change may seem somewhat strange, as their decks are losing the Item card versatility that Volkner allows for, Pikarom has still been able to find consistency in good old draw supporters like Professor’s Research and Marnie. 



This is probably a fact of my own deck then.   I also don't play Dedenne at all.   I run 3 marnie, and 2 professor's research.   Volkner is without a doubt the best card in my deck.  I don't run any way to reduce retreat cost, so it makes Switch essential to my game plan.  

The thing about e-power is I don't often -need- the e-power, and usually I have many chances to draw into one that it's nearly impossible I don't have access to it without interfering with the rest of my turn by 3.   Ik that it enables OHKO games, but those are inconsistent to begin with and shouldn't ever be a measure of strength for a deck else you start thinking a tier 3 deck is more viable than it is.  

Without e-power, it just means we have to play to our board more, and can't be conservative if we want big numbers.  I'd call that fair myself.



 

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@ScoozeBlues Electropower is more essential to getting Pikarom 2-shots on VMAX Pokemon than it is to getting OHKOs on smaller Pokemon, and would have become even more essential with the bigger VMAX Pokemon like Eternatus VMAX that are getting released. With 320 HP VMAXs, Pikarom only needs to play 1 Electropower to get a ******* + 30 + 150 > 320). But with more 340 HP Pokemon getting introduced and Electropower rotating, Pikarom will struggle to pull off even 2-shots on the biggest Pokemon in-game.

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3 hours ago, ellomello044208 said:

@Ash101416744 I wouldn’t go so far as to call Baby Blowns trash against Dragapult VMAX. The matchup is pretty even, considering that Baby Blowns can OHKO Dragapult VMAX and Dragapult can pull of multi-Prize turns against Blowns. Marnie and Reset Stamp can certainly stop the deck, but if Blowns has Jirachi/Oricorio GX in play, the limited hand isn’t as bad. 

I've played enough Baby Blowns enough to say that it is trash against it. Oricorio(Boss's Orders) and Jirachi are good options but they can be targeted by Dragapult easily. You also have to get enough energy in your hand to get a one turn knockout.

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5 hours ago, Ash101416744 said:

I've played enough Baby Blowns enough to say that it is trash against it. Oricorio(Boss's Orders) and Jirachi are good options but they can be targeted by Dragapult easily. You also have to get enough energy in your hand to get a one turn knockout.

I have to second this... it's hard enough to get 7 energy in hand (especially when Fiery Flint rotates out!) without the threat of 3-4 Marnie's in your opponent's deck. And using 2 baby Blacephalons requires an investment of 13 energy to KO Dragapult VMAX (3 + 3 for the attack cost, 7 for the damage). Oricorio GX is a liability, as is Zacian V (which is an option to keep Baby Blowns viable post-rotation).

 

Dragapult V is a hard counter my two competitive-ish decks (Blowns and Mill), I think it'll remain quite viable post-rotation, keeping decks reliant on low-HP bench warmers out of the top tier (we're also losing Sky Pillar, which as far as I know is the only non-goggle counter to Dragapult 😭 ) . This makes me sad, but is the reality. I'll be looking at how the meta settles a few weeks after the new set rotation and will then choose a new deck to run.

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On 7/20/2020 at 11:18 PM, OliverTwisting said:

 

I have to second this... it's hard enough to get 7 energy in hand (especially when Fiery Flint rotates out!) without the threat of 3-4 Marnie's in your opponent's deck. And using 2 baby Blacephalons requires an investment of 13 energy to KO Dragapult VMAX (3 + 3 for the attack cost, 7 for the damage). Oricorio GX is a liability, as is Zacian V (which is an option to keep Baby Blowns viable post-rotation).

 

Dragapult V is a hard counter my two competitive-ish decks (Blowns and Mill), I think it'll remain quite viable post-rotation, keeping decks reliant on low-HP bench warmers out of the top tier (we're also losing Sky Pillar, which as far as I know is the only non-goggle counter to Dragapult 😭 ) . This makes me sad, but is the reality. I'll be looking at how the meta settles a few weeks after the new set rotation and will then choose a new deck to run.

 

When Darkness Ablaze drops, Dragapult VMAX will probably become a non-issue due to the likely popularity of Eternatus VMAX and the horrendous matchup that Dragapult has against it. 

Edited by Dirnt54
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Eternatus VMAX is another huge Pokemon with tons of HP. So Blowns will still need to get 7 energy in hand, an even harder goal without Fiery Flint in format. Giant Hearth is hardly a substitute, and there isn't a good way to discard energy to take advantage of Fire Crystal and Energy Retrieval as means of getting lots of energy into hand quickly.

Edited by ellomello044208
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33 minutes ago, Dirnt54 said:

 

When Darkness Ablaze drops, Dragapult VMAX will probably become a non-issue due to the likely popularity of Eternatus VMAX and the horrendous matchup that Dragapult has against it. 

Dragapult VMAX will be out and Mill will be back, except the deck won't have Oranguru UPR to recycle cards. So, Mill will have to find new ways to get back Supporters and Pal Pads, maybe players will need to use Munchlax for recycling?

Edited by ellomello044208
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Blowns still has an advantage against Eternatus, since it has an attack which Blowns loves, only doing a ton of damage to a single pokemon, where Pult spreads it around which makes it hard for Blowns. Plus Pult probably won't be played so often with weakness to Eternatus, which leaves Blowns with basically all good matchups, except Tomb of it survives, and maybe Mad Party if it does well.

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28 minutes ago, Guykid121 said:

Blowns still has an advantage against Eternatus, since it has an attack which Blowns loves, only doing a ton of damage to a single pokemon, where Pult spreads it around which makes it hard for Blowns. Plus Pult probably won't be played so often with weakness to Eternatus, which leaves Blowns with basically all good matchups, except Tomb of it survives, and maybe Mad Party if it does well.

Blowns theoretically has all VMAX Pokemon covered, but there's the issue of whether or not Blowns will be able to find 7 energy reliably to OHKO VMAX Pokemon.

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I feel like we're overestimating how much of a threat Eternatuc VMAX is to Dragapult VMAX considering that weakness hasn't been everything in the past. For example when Zoroark Gx was still in the standard format it did very well despite Buzzwole Gx being a huge threat.

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Dragapult is a 3 prize pokemon which requires no colorless energy in it's attack cost, which pretty much eliminates Weakness Guard energy. In a two hit KO format with huge Tanky pokemon which are worth 3 prizes, when another pokemon comes in and is able to OHKO another three prizer for only two energy, you most likely won't do well if your opponent is able to win by only attacking twice. I am not saying it is impossible to beat Eternatus with Dragapult, but it would be extremely hard, and you could probably not win consistently, so that is most likely the main reason Dragapult won't be played as much.

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14 hours ago, Ash101416744 said:

I feel like we're overestimating how much of a threat Eternatuc VMAX is to Dragapult VMAX considering that weakness hasn't been everything in the past. For example when Zoroark Gx was still in the standard format it did very well despite Buzzwole Gx being a huge threat.

 

Good example, but Zoroark was often played with partners that had very good matchups against Buzzwole, like Garbodor GRI or Gardevior GX with Mew EX as Tord Reklev showed us. The attacks of Buzzwole GX also made weakness less relevant than it would have been. You needed a pretty difficult combo to pull off a Jet Punch 1HKO on a Zoroark (Beast Energy, Choice Band, and Diancie Prism Star). If the Buzzwole player could get them rolling, the second attack and the GX attack were 1HKOing most things wether they had weakness or not. Fighting Weakness on Zoroark just meant it wasn’t imperative to find your combo pieces like Choice Band, Strong Energy, and Diancie Prism Star. 

 

Now, on the other hand, Eternatus just needs two energy attachments and five benched Darkness Pokemon to take an easy three prizes off of Dragapult VMAX while Dragapult is taking 3hit KO's on Eternatus. 

 

Finally, Buzzwole and Zoroark were both all over the top tables for a pretty long time. At the unofficial Japanese National Championships, a tournament with around 200 very good players and including the Darkness Ablaze set, Dragapult was nowhere to be found and couldn’t hold a candle to Eternatus' three top 16 placements. 

Edited by Dirnt54
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