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The6xofDiamonds

Extra Matchmaking Option?

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The6xofDiamonds

So, after being repeatedly stomped by the "good decks" (like the Necromuza, Charizard, and Garchomp theme decks) just for not using those decks (I primarily run Raiders, now that I have it, after the discovering how fast Burning Spark gets shutdown), I had an idea:
 

Can we get an option to "exclude" decks from matchmaking in Theme mode (trying the same thing in constructed just wouldn't work), so I can stand a chance. It would simulate what I'd be doing in reality: not sitting down at at table against them. I will endure super long queue times if it means I'm not up against a deck that will get going and flatten any chance of countering in turn 3, again, just for not running one of those decks. I'm not someone who "must win", but I like standing a chance. I like playing with my favourite Pokemon and having a good time. Knowing that, merely by the deck box, I have functionally 0 chance of winning is not my jam.

 

In an event, I shouldn't have an option, but in just normal Versus matchmaking, my blood pressure would benefit greatly. Especially since I stopped playing constructed since everyone has EX/GX that either hit like trucks or can circumvent normal rules of play (like a clearly evolved Pokemon being treated as a Basic). So right now my current options are "play against meta Theme decks you wouldn't play against irl" or "get stomped by GX decks that oneshot almost every card you own".

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Mod_GuruLot
4 hours ago, The6xofDiamonds said:

So, after being repeatedly stomped by the "good decks" (like the Necromuza, Charizard, and Garchomp theme decks) just for not using those decks (I primarily run Raiders, now that I have it, after the discovering how fast Burning Spark gets shutdown), I had an idea:
 

Can we get an option to "exclude" decks from matchmaking in Theme mode (trying the same thing in constructed just wouldn't work), so I can stand a chance. It would simulate what I'd be doing in reality: not sitting down at at table against them. I will endure super long queue times if it means I'm not up against a deck that will get going and flatten any chance of countering in turn 3, again, just for not running one of those decks. I'm not someone who "must win", but I like standing a chance. I like playing with my favourite Pokemon and having a good time. Knowing that, merely by the deck box, I have functionally 0 chance of winning is not my jam.

 

In an event, I shouldn't have an option, but in just normal Versus matchmaking, my blood pressure would benefit greatly. Especially since I stopped playing constructed since everyone has EX/GX that either hit like trucks or can circumvent normal rules of play (like a clearly evolved Pokemon being treated as a Basic). So right now my current options are "play against meta Theme decks you wouldn't play against irl" or "get stomped by GX decks that oneshot almost every card you own".

 

Hello @The6xofDiamonds

 

Thank you for sharing your ideas and some current strategies with the forum. 

 

It sounds like you're focused to stop playing constructed for various reasons. 

 

Also, I've forwarded your suggestion to our development department for further review. 

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SandaledOtter

And all the Fire players block water.

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The6xofDiamonds
6 hours ago, SandaledOtter said:

And all the Fire players block water.

So? Why would you sit down against a type-matched deck? You're almost guaranteed to lose.

And with what I'm suggesting, you can't just "block water", you'd have to manually block every water Theme deck available.

Edited by The6xofDiamonds

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Mod_GuruLot
1 hour ago, The6xofDiamonds said:

So? Why would you sit down against a type-matched deck? You're almost guaranteed to lose.

And with what I'm suggesting, you can't just "block water", you'd have to manually block every water Theme deck available.

 

Hello @The6xofDiamonds

 

Sounds like this could be a good workaround. ;) 

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gengar248

Having total control of what theme decks you face probably isn't the answer, as that option could be easily abused.  However, I do agree that something needs to be done so that players can actually use the older theme decks, as pretty much every Generation 4-5 theme deck and most of the Generation 6 theme decks are flat-out unplayable in today's environment, and it does get old at times facing the same decks.  Maybe something like Legacy Theme Deck could work?  If there was an option like that, the older theme decks would be usable again, and certain Daily Challenges could be easier to accomplish.  I mean...good luck getting anything done with Fairy or Steel nowadays...(no good Fairy decks, Steel matches up poorly with Fire and Electric, which a good portion of the top theme decks have)

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SandaledOtter
7 hours ago, The6xofDiamonds said:

So? Why would you sit down against a type-matched deck? You're almost guaranteed to lose.

And with what I'm suggesting, you can't just "block water", you'd have to manually block every water Theme deck available.

I've manually marked every card I have extras of as "for trade," and as I find ones I don't have enough of, I mark them as "wanted." There aren't very many theme decks.

 

There aren't that many that a person playing one of the latest fire decks needs to worry about.

In any case, it wouldn't just be the fire decks.

Every player picks their favorite deck, and blocks whatever it is weak against.

They never face what they're strong against, because THOSE players blocked their deck.

With every game another deck gets blocked by one player or the other, and you're left with mirror matches.

... Unless you block those, too.

 

2 hours ago, gengar248 said:

Having total control of what theme decks you face probably isn't the answer, as that option could be easily abused.  However, I do agree that something needs to be done so that players can actually use the older theme decks, as pretty much every Generation 4-5 theme deck and most of the Generation 6 theme decks are flat-out unplayable in today's environment, and it does get old at times facing the same decks.  Maybe something like Legacy Theme Deck could work?  If there was an option like that, the older theme decks would be usable again, and certain Daily Challenges could be easier to accomplish.  I mean...good luck getting anything done with Fairy or Steel nowadays...(no good Fairy decks, Steel matches up poorly with Fire and Electric, which a good portion of the top theme decks have)

 

I do agree that it would be nice to be able to use those older decks. It would also be nice if the underutilized energies got some attention with new theme decks that could actually compete.

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The6xofDiamonds

I think Gengar hit the nail on the head, Legacy modes. Since most of my issues have been Torrential Cannon onward, basically.

 

1 hour ago, SandaledOtter said:

I've manually marked every card I have extras of as "for trade," and as I find ones I don't have enough of, I mark them as "wanted."

That would work... If you have tradeable cards. As of right now, literally all of my cards are trade locked. I haven't done any events because I figure the exact same decks that give me grief in regular Versus will give me grief in Events.

 

As for the abuse-ability of it. Yes, my idea is abuse-able, but if you ***** it, you lock yourself in a situation where you never get a match.

 

1 hour ago, SandaledOtter said:

There aren't that many that a person playing one of the latest fire decks needs to worry about.

Keyword "latest", plus you literally just cited my point. There's so little that the latest decks need to worry about. How do you get better it there's only 2 decks (generalizing, I don't know how many rival it) that can even hope to last long enough to threaten you in a match? I'm not (and likely will not) playing the latest decks, I'm trying to enjoy the TCG the same way i have enjoyed Pokemon since Gen 1: Grab my faves, have a match where either side can win (it's not predetermined before anyone goes like Raiders vs Relentless Flame [I think?]) , and enjoy the spectacle. I prefer close games, not landslides, I genuinely feel bad when my opponent cannot possibly answer any move I make, it's no fun.

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Otakutron
On 10/10/2019 at 11:39 PM, The6xofDiamonds said:

I primarily run Raiders...

 

"Raiders" is a Theme Deck from BW - Dark Explorers, an expansion that officially released on May 9, 2012.  Over seven years ago.

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The6xofDiamonds
5 hours ago, Otakutron said:

 

"Raiders" is a Theme Deck from BW - Dark Explorers, an expansion that officially released on May 9, 2012.  Over seven years ago.

 

To which I suggest (thank you for being helpful, @gengar248) :

On 10/11/2019 at 4:01 PM, gengar248 said:

However, I do agree that something needs to be done so that players can actually use the older theme decks, as pretty much every Generation 4-5 theme deck and most of the Generation 6 theme decks are flat-out unplayable in today's environment, and it does get old at times facing the same decks.  Maybe something like Legacy Theme Deck could work?  If there was an option like that, the older theme decks would be usable again, and certain Daily Challenges could be easier to accomplish.

 

is that really so bad? The game is about having fun. If you wanna be competitive, great. My jam is as stated: Grabbing Pokemon I love and running with them. I can't speak for Torrential Cannon vs Necromuza as being close games, though I would imagine so. We have Unlimited, Expanded, etc for Constructed. Why is having "I want to match up against XY/HGSS/BW" so bad? We both get to play close games against equal-ish strength decks, and if someone decides "my HGSS deck is getting roflstomped by BW decks, I'm not gonna queue for those" they have the option. Options for hopefully closer games is all this thread is about.

Edited by The6xofDiamonds

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Otakutron

@gengar248 I am going to examine your comment in detail, now.  I didn't before because I appreciated that you were trying to stay positive, even though you suggested things that have been discussed before, and proven to be untenable.  @The6xofDiamonds is now using what you said as the basis of his argument, so I am going to have to go a little more in depth.  Please don't take this as me trying to shut down discussion.  It is just you two are asking questions that have answers, and making suggestions have been made before, but found wanting (and clearly weren't implemented).

 

On 10/11/2019 at 4:01 PM, gengar248 said:

Having total control of what theme decks you face probably isn't the answer, as that option could be easily abused

 

Here I agree.  If we want to really split hairs, I am assuming the option presented in this thread's original post would be easily abused, as opposed to "could" be.

 

On 10/11/2019 at 4:01 PM, gengar248 said:

However, I do agree that something needs to be done so that players can actually use the older theme decks, as pretty much every Generation 4-5 theme deck and most of the Generation 6 theme decks are flat-out unplayable in today's environment...

 

You may agree that something needs to be done, but you've got to justify it to those who do not agree with you. ;)  A lot of this is because of facts about the PTCGO that you and The6xofDiamonds either don't know or aren't factoring into your suggestions:

  • You can already play your friends with just old Theme decks.
  • The PTCGO is not a for-profit game even though it is a commercial product.
  • The Theme Format is not a Format for the physical card game...
  • ...which means Theme Decks are not actually designed with it in mind. =/
  • The Dev Team has a limited amount of resources for maintaining and improving the PTCGO.
  • The PTCGO has a finite player base that can only be spread so thin.

The first point is important for those who just want to play with older Theme Decks for fun; you can already do that!  What you can't do is use them with much success while also progressing on the Reward Ladder.  If you don't want rewards for using older stuff, all you have to do is use the player versus player mode and arrange to only use older Theme Decks.  Which is a good use for these forums!

 

The PTCGO seems to be intended as one-part "Reward Program" for people already buying first-hand physical Pokémon TCG product, and as a giant demo for players interested in the Pokémon TCG.  People who play just the PTCGO but don't support the physical TCG still have a place here, bolstering how many players and/or trading partners you have in the game.  The Trainer Challenge shows us that AI opponent's just don't cut it. ;)

 

Theme decks are designed as an entry point for new players into the Pokémon TCG.  The physical game, I mean; unfortunately, the Theme Format is a PTCGO-only thing; the decks aren't designed to be balanced for it.  They were also rubbish at it for many years, and are only getting "decent" to "kind of good" at it with the Sun & Moon-era Theme Decks.  A good Theme Deck helps a new player learn the game and provides a foundation for someone's first "real" Theme Deck.  Ideally, there's a little something there to entice experienced players and/or collectors.

 

The Dev Team is tasked with keeping the PTCGO going while updating it for new cards.  Which probably doesn't sound too difficult except there are so many variables to work with in doing so, because the PTCGO is largely "automated".  Think about all the calculations and actions you have to perform when playing the Pokémon game in real life; the computer has to do all of that, and probably a little more given how so much a person does is more or less automatic... like seeing a string of letters and reading them as words in a sentence. ;)

 

There used to be Legacy Format tournaments in the Events section; they went away because the Dev Team informed us not enough players were participating in them.  They also revealed that the different Formats need to have a certain amount of players actually using them to justify their upkeep.  Further discussions when folks have asked about adding new Formats to either tournaments or the Reward Ladder have lead to the implication that if something new is added, something old will have to go.  In other words, Legacy Theme Format would probably mean losing the Legacy Format.

 

On 10/11/2019 at 4:01 PM, gengar248 said:

...and it does get old at times facing the same decks.

 

Some of this is just bad luck. I haven't been grinding in the Theme Format like I usually do for the last month or so, but prior to that there are about a dozen decks worth using "competitively" in the Theme Format:

  • Mach Strike
  • Imperial Command
  • Tropical Takedown
  • Leaf Charge
  • Storm Caller
  • Blazing Volcano
  • Relentless Flame
  • Torrential Cannon
  • Lightning Loop
  • Battle Mind
  • Soaring Storm
  • Laser Focus

Yes, some of these can be argued; I did say "about". ;)Yes, some of these are clearly better than the others: Relentless Flame, closely followed by Blazing Volcano, closely followed by Soaring Storm and Laser Focus.  Other decks are about exploiting Weakness or tend to brick a bit to often for their otherwise good strategies.  Yes, I wish there was more variety in what I faced, as some of these show up a lot while others show up only a little.

 

On 10/11/2019 at 4:01 PM, gengar248 said:

Maybe something like Legacy Theme Deck could work?  If there was an option like that, the older theme decks would be usable again, and certain Daily Challenges could be easier to accomplish.  I mean...good luck getting anything done with Fairy or Steel nowadays...(no good Fairy decks, Steel matches up poorly with Fire and Electric, which a good portion of the top theme decks have)

 

I appreciate you (gengar248) trying to come up with a solution to The6xofDiamonds dilemma, and if we had the player base for such a division, you'd have nailed it. :D Unfortunately, we don't. =/  I'll also mention that yeah, certain Daily Challenges are almost impossible in the Theme Format but given what it would still "cost" us,I think I'd rather spend my effort trying to convince the Dev Team to release their own PTCGO-exclusive Theme Decks again, for the underrepresented Types and/or get TPCi to take the Theme Format a little more seriously.  I mean, it seems like the perfect way appeal to extreme casuals and yet also a way to help casual players ease into competitive play.

 

My apologies for the length of this post, but there was a lot to explain.  Again, please forgive me if the tone every veered negative.  I am also sorry for the sometimes rambling nature.  I thought I could bang this out more quickly, but now I'm about an hour behind schedule so I've got to go! ^^'

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