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Something to Add To Upvote/Downvote/Like: Huh?

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Sakura150612
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, RobRatt said:

As Sakura has said, and I am also positive of, the old forums software allowed ONE downvote per day.  And while you could post many upvotes daily, this prevented exaggerated misuse of downvotes (to everything they post).  With the new software it's 10 a day, either up or down

This is in fact correct. The old system allowed more total votes per day (11), but 1 was reserved exclusively for downvotes while the other 10 could be exclusively for a thumbs up. Like I said earlier, there was no reason to prompt this change, and so I'd be fine with the system being reverted. I still categorically disagree on the idea of downvotes being bullying, but I can agree to once again limiting downvotes to once per day.

 

Now, here is what my real beef with this. I offhandedly mentioned in one of these posts that equating a pair of rather meaningless downvotes to bullying is making light of what it really means to be a victim of bullying. In reality, this is almost 100% of my actual problem with what you're saying. I initially avoided saying any more because I nearly wrote a wall of text about private stuff regarding my own experience with bullying, but before posting it I realized that 1) Nobody cares, and 2) I shouldn't be sharing that kind of thing so freely anyways. 

 

So I'm just going to make this simple and not delve too much on the details. In my opinion, what you describe is simply NOT bullying. A few anonymous people indirectly telling you that they don't like you through downvotes doesn't really do any damage. You should not be getting depr*ssed [EDIT: Geezus, this censor dude] or seriously hurt over a few people who you don't know and have no reason to care about telling you that they dislike you [To be clear, when I say "you" I mean the hypothetically affected person, not Rob]. That goes double when there's no violence involved, neither verbal nor physical. If such a thing honestly gets to you and affects you IRL, then you should considering examining the reasons as to why you feel so damaged by it and even consider assisting therapy; not because getting downvoted is the cause of your misery but because it's merely a symptom that there's an underlying cause that makes you react to trivial things. True bullying is much more brutal than this; violence (regardless of its nature) is always involved, there's usually nowhere you can hide from it, and the unspeakable horrors involved with it leave people traumatized for life (if they survive, that is; some of the unchecked cases of bullying end in tragedy, as we all know).

 

Rob, I respect you as a person, and even if I don't like it I respect your opinion as well. But on a fundamental level I quite simply cannot agree with it. I feel like it makes a mockery of the suffering that bullying victims go through. I know that doesn't exactly sound respectful of your opinion, but I don't know how else to put it. To me, this is just way too trivial to seriously put it on the same level.

 

I have no qualms with either of your suggestions (reverting to the old system, or even just axing the downvote system completely). My disagreement with you is purely on the issue of what constitutes bullying. I'm aware that this is hardly the right place to have a serious discussion on bullying (as well as of the fact that I've gone WAY off-topic) , but on a personal level I just couldn't let this one go, as selfish as that is. I hope you can forgive me for that.

Edited by Sakura150612
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LightFlarion
Quote

If I was Admin of these forums, I would eliminate the "Upvotes" and "Downvotes" entirely.

 

Of the 3 current choices, I would leave the "Like" option (heart symbol).  With this simple Like button, it would still encourage good ideas, wisdom, humor, helpful tips, and positive recognition.  That's all we really need.

 

I also agree with this idea. I didn't even really realize that there where down/up votes xD.

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Otakutron
18 hours ago, Sakura150612 said:

The old system allowed more total votes per day (11), but 1 was reserved exclusively for downvotes while the other 10 could be exclusively for a thumbs up.

 

As I've fixated on this point, I will just say that I could have sworn you got more than a single Downvote under the old system, but not much more than that.  However, I will also acknowledge my memory is far from perfect, so in light of two folks certain it worked differently, I need to accept that I am almost certainly mistaken on this one point.  My apologies for not accepting this sooner.

 

Which is neither me saying I'm wrong right about anything else, just recognizing what I needed to recognize. ;)

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Sakura150612
13 minutes ago, Otakutron said:

 

As I've fixated on this point, I will just say that I could have sworn you got more than a single Downvote under the old system, but not much more than that.  However, I will also acknowledge my memory is far from perfect, so in light of two folks certain it worked differently, I need to accept that I am almost certainly mistaken on this one point.  My apologies for not accepting this sooner.

 

Which is neither me saying I'm wrong right about anything else, just recognizing what I needed to recognize. ;)

It's ok dude, it's just a small detail xd

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RobRatt
Posted (edited)

I'm glad to hear a couple of you say that [yes, this is sarcasm] it's "no big deal," shouldn't matter, is hypothetical, or isn't important enough to warrant a fix.  Gotta protect your ability to spit at other's thoughts, right?

 

Since I spoke out for others it was happening to, some great fellow [again, sarcasm] has been systematically downvoting each and every post I've made in the In-Game Exchange section.  He started at the top, 6 through 8 votes a day, all within 5 minutes, and working his way backward.  That's four days in a row now.

 

Don't worry, some of us have friends who understand.  One has "got my back," and is countervoting, so this creep won't succeed.  I just wanted to make you aware, this is a real problem.  How would any of you feel if someone was systematically downvoting each and everything you had done, even the best, most helpful, and nicest of your comments?

 

Glad to see such a warm and welcoming Community, looking for ways to make it better.  Great ideas.  Awesome support.  Oh, and thank you Mods for acknowledging a problem.  [oops, there goes that sarcasm again].

 

Edited by RobRatt
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Sakura150612

*Sigh*

 

Can we just agree to disagree and move on? We've derailed this thread by a lot. Like Otakutron said, it's not like this topic isn't important, but it should be on its own separate thread if we wish to continue it. We should go back to discussing the possibility of adding new reactions to the current options, if there are any more opinions regarding that subject.

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RobRatt
9 minutes ago, Sakura150612 said:

*Sigh*

 

Can we just agree to disagree and move on?

 

NO.

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SKBellmore
46 minutes ago, RobRatt said:

Since I spoke out for others it was happening to, some great fellow [again, sarcasm] has been systematically downvoting each and every post I've made in the In-Game Exchange section.  He started at the top, 6 through 8 votes a day, all within 5 minutes, and working his way backward.  That's four days in a row now.

Like others, I honestly don’t care at all about reputation, but this is happening to me too. I get votes on things like “I have some, what do you value them at?” It’s really not bullying, but downright mean.

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Sakura150612

Well, looks like someone just went on a downvote spree on me, almost as if to prove a point. But you know what? I still refuse to call it bullying. If people honestly think this is bullying I'd like to see how far they make it in the real world without breaking down. My guess is that it won't be too far. People are cruel beyond belief; a minimal offense like this means nothing compared to that. I'm really sad that we could not come to a reasonable agreement, not even agreeing to have different opinions. This is sad. I expected better of you Rob, I'm disappointed. 

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RobRatt
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, SKBellmore said:

Like others, I honestly don’t care at all about reputation, but this is happening to me too. I get votes on things like “I have some, what do you value them at?” It’s really not bullying, but downright mean.

 

@SK, I knew it was also happening to you.  I feel you.

 

Whatever you want to call it.  Bullying is unwanted, aggressive behavior (nothing more or less).  This fits the definition.  I'm sorry that others may have experienced more severe meanings to the word.  But this behavior and misuse shouldn't be happening in a family forum.  Nobody has to tolerate discord, taking whatever {you know what} someone else dishes out, and agree to accept it silently.  Sorry to disappoint others, but there's no compromise. ...Only solutions.

 

Edited by RobRatt
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Sakura150612

Here's the thing... I don't think we're really that far apart. I agree in that what's going on is a misuse of the system and that there is obvious ill intent behind whoever is behind it. If people are just gonna use it to be mean to each other and no one really cares enough about the system to keep it around, removing or reworking it is a proper solution.

 

I'm honestly just disappointed that we can't even agree to have different opinions. My own experience doesn't allow me to see downvoting as anything other than an annoyance. It was really just the flat "NO" that got to me, sorry about that.

 

That said, can we migrate this conversation to a new thread? We really shouldn't be hijacking other people's topic even if this subject is important too. I don't think that leaving this thread go back on topic and starting our own thread would be a bad idea.

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SKBellmore
13 minutes ago, Sakura150612 said:

That said, can we migrate this conversation to a new thread? We really shouldn't be hijacking other people's topic even if this subject is important too. I don't think that leaving this thread go back on topic and starting our own thread would be a bad idea.

Here’s an idea... Controversy/Rants at the Forum Norm! (No rules about self-advertising...)

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harshu
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, RobRatt said:

How would any of you feel if someone was systematically downvoting each and everything you had done, even the best, most helpful, and nicest of your comments?

Ask me, I think I am eligible to answer this. The answer is, I find it funny and so should you as well. Because those comments did their job when someone read it and they helped them when they were being read. I don't find downvoting of any use when my comment has already done the job of helping the other guy.

 

To be honest, no one looks at the reputation bar if they want help and someone has replied them in the most helpful way. They are delighted and they don't care little whether the guy who helped them is -100 or +100.

 

Trust me, reputation is simply one of the most useless tools I have seen. The only "good" thing it does is award good people for their work so they can take pride. That's it.

 

Honestly, I left this thread but today it caught my attention after it went to page 2. When I sat and read all of it, it had already turned into an argument of what bullying was.

I have no problem if it gets removed of if stays because I simply couldn't care less. But give me a good reason, why you should care about reputation at all ?

 

Thanks for reading.

 

16 hours ago, SKBellmore said:

Here’s an idea... Controversy/Rants at the Forum Norm! (No rules about self-advertising...)

To be honest, I have read the whole thread and its brilliant, except this part. I really hate someone ranting about something rather than constructively trying to solve the problem. Its reminds me of news channels who make the headlines with utter celebrity controversy and simply produce nothing more useful.

 

Otherwise I loved that thread and already replied to it :)

Edited by harshu
Grammatical Error.
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SKBellmore
1 hour ago, harshu said:

To be honest, I have read the whole thread and its brilliant, except this part. I really hate someone ranting about something rather than constructively trying to solve the problem. Its reminds me of news channels who make the headlines with utter celebrity controversy and simply produce nothing more useful.

 

Otherwise I loved that thread and already replied to it :)

Thanks for the appreciation! I honestly planned on removing this since I don’t have the time. Thanks for the feedback.

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WingsofFire1014
On 6/16/2019 at 5:55 PM, RobRatt said:

I'm glad to hear a couple of you say that [yes, this is sarcasm] it's "no big deal," shouldn't matter, is hypothetical, or isn't important enough to warrant a fix.  Gotta protect your ability to spit at other's thoughts, right?

 

Since I spoke out for others it was happening to, some great fellow [again, sarcasm] has been systematically downvoting each and every post I've made in the In-Game Exchange section.  He started at the top, 6 through 8 votes a day, all within 5 minutes, and working his way backward.  That's four days in a row now.

 

Don't worry, some of us have friends who understand.  One has "got my back," and is countervoting, so this creep won't succeed.  I just wanted to make you aware, this is a real problem.  How would any of you feel if someone was systematically downvoting each and everything you had done, even the best, most helpful, and nicest of your comments?

 

Glad to see such a warm and welcoming Community, looking for ways to make it better.  Great ideas.  Awesome support.  Oh, and thank you Mods for acknowledging a problem.  [oops, there goes that sarcasm again].

 

True for me to. I got slammed by downvotes when I was making a trade with Kodking (some of you might have noticed that my rep. was down to like 13 at one point). Somebody had my back and I started climbing back up. I really don't care about rep, but I think new or even normal players like to hear from players with high rep because they think those guys are smart.

 

And they are, @RobRatt, @Chasista, @Sakura, @Harshu (in my opinion), @Felidae_, and more. You guys are awesome.

 

I don't mention those guys to try to get rep, I mean it. @Harshu should be up to like 1000. I really enjoy this community, but I don't enjoy the trolling. 

 

I think that the upvotes should stay, but the downvotes be completely eliminated. I you agree, you can upvote. If you don't, you can say why and move on. Nobody deserves to be downvotes because of their opinion.

 

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Otakutron
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, WingsofFire1014 said:

I think that the upvotes should stay, but the downvotes be completely eliminated. I you agree, you can upvote. If you don't, you can say why and move on. Nobody deserves to be downvotes because of their opinion.

 

4

 

Then why does anyone deserve to be upvoted for their opinion?*

 

I understand the position of eliminating such reactions entirely; I may not agree with it (yet), but I do understand.

 

Removing the Downvote option while retaining the Upvote and/or Like just means the trolls focus on Upvoting the "wrong" posts into the stratosphere instead of Downvoting the stuff they shouldn't into the depths. It would just make a bad situation worse by making it artificially appear to be "better".  You know, like Participation Trophies. XP  Granted, Reputation is already almost that inconsequential as is.

 

Being corrected by a full-on post isn't exactly a fun thing for most of us, either.  If it is a situation where Downvotes are all that is needed to clue someone in, then how much worse is it when they receive three or four comments that are all "You've got the ruling wrong."  "You're being rude."  Etc.  Or when they get a detailed explanation of their folly, drawing attention to it, kind of like when the teacher called you up in class before reading the note you were caught passing. ;)

 

*Upvoting or Liking to thank someone for helping you would still make sense, though.  The problem is how do you ensure that is the only reason for Liking/Upvoting?

Edited by Otakutron
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WingsofFire1014

I see your point. Even if we eliminate it, they could start spamming or saying rather cruel things to get their point through another way.

 

Ultimately I think that we will have to just trust people to not be dumb.

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RobRatt
Posted (edited)

For several years I belonged to a professional software forum.  This "reputation system" would have been perfect in that setting.  I can also see this working great in a Technical Support forum, so you would know which Rep/Tech was likely to give a solid answer.

 

But HERE?  ...with gamers?  ...some of them "less than" mature?   I just don't see the point of rating each other as people.

 

Since this topic became open, some of the members have quit getting picked on.  That's a good thing.  And new members seem to have it easer.  But we've still got one player who has used a second account, and has pushed his own rating from minus 65 to about +15, shifting almost 80 points in a couple weeks.  And now, I notice that @Sakura has been taking a massive hit (downvotes) in many of her posts.  With all of her help and detailed replies, she doesn't deserve that.  This just isn't the way it's supposed to be.

 

Can't we think of something else, maybe going to "Popular Posts" (by Liking them), and get rid of the personality contests?  Everyone feels good when they help someone, and get a Heart/Like symbol as thanks.  But, as it is, armed with 10 downvotes a day, all it takes is one wrong turn of the phrase (or word) and "BAM, we don't like you."  @Staff, any ideas?

 

Edited by RobRatt
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SaucyMouse
1 hour ago, RobRatt said:

For several years I belonged to a professional software forum.  This "reputation system" would have been perfect in that setting.  I can also see this working great in a Technical Support forum, so you would know which Rep/Tech was likely to give a solid answer.

 

But HERE?  ...with gamers?  ...some of them "less than" mature?   I just don't see the point of rating each other as people.

 

Since this topic became open, some of the members have quit getting picked on.  That's a good thing.  And new members seem to have it easer.  But we've still got one player who has used a second account, and has pushed his own rating from minus 65 to about +15, shifting almost 80 points in a couple weeks.  And now, I notice that @Sakura has been taking a massive hit (downvotes) in many of her posts.  With all of her help and detailed replies, she doesn't deserve that.  This just isn't the way it's supposed to be.

 

Can't we think of something else, maybe going to "Popular Posts" (by Liking them), and get rid of the personality contests?  Everyone feels good when they help someone, and get a Heart/Like symbol as thanks.  But, as it is, armed with 10 downvotes a day, all it takes is one wrong turn of the phrase (or word) and "BAM, we don't like you."  @Staff, any ideas?

 

 

 

I completely agree with you @RobRatt as I have stated before elsewhere. I'm not going to lie I had to double check who Sakura was as I have bad memory and confused her with Sniper, then checked her history on posts with downvotes, and in all honesty I saw some of the posts she was downvoted on and she seems a bit insensitive towards peoples feelings on some of her comments, and she tends to like to argue with people on rare occasions, and interject herself with some negative input. I can see where she may get off on the wrong foot with other trainers/users.

 

Obviously not all of the posts that have downvotes deserved it because she said nothing wrong or insensitive but a few did which indicates some trolling going on towards her which is a shame to be honest because no one deserves that. But this is where things take a turn with my agreement with you as she has admitted to downvoting other trainers posts because she simply didn't like what they wrote which is fine, but that doesn't give her a free pass on not getting downvoted herself. Sakura may be a big help in this community but if she can dish it she can take it. Anyhow, Hopefully whoever is being a grade A donkey-hat though should calm down because he/she isn't doing anyone any favors with focusing their trolling on her.

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Sniperi96
Posted (edited)
On 6/23/2019 at 6:37 PM, SaucyMouse said:

But this is where things take a turn with my agreement with you as she has admitted to downvoting other trainers posts because she simply didn't like what they wrote which is fine, but that doesn't give her a free pass on not getting downvoted herself. Sakura may be a big help in this community but if she can dish it she can take it.

Getting downvoted on single post and getting spam-downvoted on multiple posts just because you got picked by someone are two very different things.

I think everyone have rights to downvote every post they (strongly) disagree with but when the downvoting is done just to systematically affect one player's reputation, without even reading posts,  is where I would think the line of what can be considered good taste is grossed  especially if, as mentioned in the thread, the person is using multiple accounts(thing that itself is against terms of use).

That being said, I'm not really taking any side on this thread and stay behind what I wrote 10 days ago.

 

Edited by Sniperi96
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Sniperi96
On 6/23/2019 at 4:00 PM, RobRatt said:

 But we've still got one player who has used a second account, and has pushed his own rating from minus 65 to about +15, shifting almost 80 points in a couple weeks.

As I mentioned, these are crazy times.

I hope I had screenshotted every single post I had downvotes to show the difference in downvotes, but as it stands right now, it is only my word I have against your claims. Though, now when I think about it, I should have probably won few more than 4 times "who had most upvotes x day race", should I have createn multiple accounts, upvoted myself, and gone terrorize the whole forum (even more accounts).

So, if you insist to believe the person is me, I say, I have pleasure to be this person for you, in your imagination.

 

ps.Now go and downvote this to oblivion.

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FeliciaFidelity

I'm a little scared to post in this thread because of everything that is going on in fact all this is making me not want to be in these forums like ever again because it feels like a family going through some ridiculous drama and gross but here goes......

 

So I like the idea of more emoticons for rating a post but like what if we had random ones like a vomiting emoticon? for like if we dont like an idea or whats being said so we threw up or maybe an emoticon that deals with like rainbows to show that their post gave us a happy day. We could also have a laughing reaction emoticon because the post made us laugh instead of just thumbs being up or down because those are very boring and doesn't really say much.

 

Maybe that's just the valley girl in me that wants these but more reactions would be ideal.

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DonZaloog95
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, FeliciaFidelity said:

I'm a little scared to post in this thread because of everything that is going on in fact all this is making me not want to be in these forums like ever again because it feels like a family going through some ridiculous drama and gross but here goes......

This person said it the best.😉

Ah snap. Out of reactions...So,am I the person raining downvotes? 🤣

Edited by DonZaloog95
typo
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Otakutron
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, FeliciaFidelity said:

We could also have a laughing reaction emoticon because the post made us laugh instead of just thumbs being up or down because those are very boring and doesn't really say much.

 

Yeah.  S'funny; I normally hate these kinds of things elsewhere but here?  It seems kind of appropriate.

 

I guess another thing might be eliminating cumulative reputation, and just showing how many of each response you'd earned when someone bothers to view your profile (if that).  As I've said before, having a comment downvoted (or a similar "negative" reaction shouldn't be a big deal anyway, and any response system - even just regular ol' comments - is open to misuse, but I could see such changes being a positive thing even apart from that.

Edited by Otakutron
Word similar to "misuse" gets censored, so replaced it.

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RobRatt
9 hours ago, FeliciaFidelity said:

<snip>  ...because it feels like a family going through some ridiculous drama

 

"Mom.  MOM!!  She won't quit breathing on me!"

 

Don't worry.  Your day will come soon enough.  Welcome to the family.

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