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Gaggingqueen

Suggestion for versus mode filter for EX/GX.

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Gaggingqueen
Posted (edited)

Hi everyone. 

 

First off, I want to thank the developers of this game for bringing back some of the great memories i had with PCG back in my teenage years - and for executing it so well, with a nice, easy battle layout and a super intuitive GUI all-over. And a thanks to this community as well for keeping it alive! Now for my suggestion;

 

My suggestion is to enable an additional filter in the versus mode, simply consisting of a toggle enabling the user to specify whether they want matches including EX/GX cards or not. If no is selected, the user can only play decks not containing said types, while being matched with other users specifying the same criteria.

 

If you want to avoid GX-loaded matches, you have to specify Legacy mode. The issue with the Legacy mode is that it, as implied, leaves out a ton of great new cards. I would love to be able to play versus mode with self-made, less meta-adhering "theme'y" decks, instead of having to face stacked GX decks built to fit perfectly into current meta's.

 

I want to make it absolutely clear that I do not suggest this to be more balanced or better than the current meta -  I acknowledge fully that the EX/GX cards and trainer-heavy meta adds a level of tactical depth to the game that is hard to achieve though more regular theme decks. The potential for comebacks and outsmarting your opponent seems much greater than is the case with theme-battles where lucky draws has massive impact. 

 

I know I am being a bit nostalgic, and not many people might even want this option - but I think it would be relatively straightforward to implement and at least test ?

Best regards,

Gaggingqueen (...Yeah.. What was i thinking?)

 

 

Edited by Gaggingqueen
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Lalamon

Could be implemented. but TCGO is a mirror of real life game and even though we have Legacy being a format, I don't think they separate EX and GX because have been asked many times before and never did. EX are OP, Megas are OP, BREAK are OP, but they were not haha and now GX are OP and TAG TEAM are OP.

 

Still in a no EX and GX mode, some decks would become META and then other bad so is not going to be more attractive than Standard or Expanded as they are.

 

Other side, if they do is another option so hope they hear to you and if we want use it and if we don't, then not.

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Mod_GuruLot
2 hours ago, Gaggingqueen said:

Hi everyone. 

 

First off, I want to thank the developers of this game for bringing back some of the great memories i had with PCG back in my teenage years - and for executing it so well, with a nice, easy battle layout and a super intuitive GUI all-over. And a thanks to this community as well for keeping it alive! Now for my suggestion;

 

My suggestion is to enable an additional filter in the versus mode, simply consisting of a toggle enabling the user to specify whether they want matches including EX/GX cards or not. If no is selected, the user can only play decks not containing said types, while being matched with other users specifying the same criteria.

 

If you want to avoid GX-loaded matches, you have to specify Legacy mode. The issue with the Legacy mode is that it, as implied, leaves out a ton of great new cards. I would love to be able to play versus mode with self-made, less meta-adhering "theme'y" decks, instead of having to face stacked GX decks built to fit perfectly into current meta's.

 

I want to make it absolutely clear that I do not suggest this to be more balanced or better than the current meta -  I acknowledge fully that the EX/GX cards and trainer-heavy meta adds a level of tactical depth to the game that is hard to achieve though more regular theme decks. The potential for comebacks and outsmarting your opponent seems much greater than is the case with theme-battles where lucky draws has massive impact. 

 

I know I am being a bit nostalgic, and not many people might even want this option - but I think it would be relatively straightforward to implement and at least test ?

Best regards,

Gaggingqueen (...Yeah.. What was i thinking?)

 

 

 

Hello Gaggingqueen, 

 

Thank you for this suggestion to implement an additional filter in the versus mode.

 

We'll be passing this along to our development team for their review.

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Gaggingqueen
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lalamon said:

Could be implemented. but TCGO is a mirror of real life game and even though we have Legacy being a format, I don't think they separate EX and GX because have been asked many times before and never did. EX are OP, Megas are OP, BREAK are OP, but they were not haha and now GX are OP and TAG TEAM are OP.

 

Still in a no EX and GX mode, some decks would become META and then other bad so is not going to be more attractive than Standard or Expanded as they are.

 

Other side, if they do is another option so hope they hear to you and if we want use it and if we don't, then not.

 

Would love if they would give it a chance!

 

You are right about META's arising under any circumstances, but I suppose people that really want to compete will mainly focus on the EX/GX versus mode that is the current META, and where "things happen". 


I played someone today in Legacy that had a very specific strategy based on free retreating and damage, and while I lost, it was just enjoyable to see other pokemons used and the creativity involved. 

 

Best regards,

Gaggingqueen

Edited by Gaggingqueen

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Felidae_

Just for the record: How do you think your “new” format would shape out?

 

Bare in mind, Zapdos + Jirachi, the highest ranked Standard meta deck in the past 3 months runs 0-2 GX cards and could easily cut those.

 

I'll same you time and answer it for you: In the span of a couple of weeks the best decks have been identified and you are going to face those back to back in every match, except those in the bottom of the ELO ranks that don't know how to build decks.

 

We see this “no EX / GX format” thread aprox. Every couple of weeks, always posted by beginners who recently joined the game.

Every single time the creators of those threads think that once you cut on “those OP EX/GX cards” they can play whatever random pile of junk they want.

I can't stress this enough:

There will always be a set of cards that are superior to the rest: More HP, More Damage, easier to set up, more better support from trainer cards, etc.

 

If you play a badly designed deck with weak Pokemon, it is going to stay exactly that, no matter which arbitrary shackles you put on the format. Does that mean you can't play with your favourite cards and win? Not by a long shot, but you need to invest time into your deck and try out what works and what doesn't.

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Gaggingqueen
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Felidae_ said:

Just for the record: How do you think your “new” format would shape out?

 

Bare in mind, Zapdos + Jirachi, the highest ranked Standard meta deck in the past 3 months runs 0-2 GX cards and could easily cut those.

 

I'll same you time and answer it for you: In the span of a couple of weeks the best decks have been identified and you are going to face those back to back in every match, except those in the bottom of the ELO ranks that don't know how to build decks.

 

We see this “no EX / GX format” thread aprox. Every couple of weeks, always posted by beginners who recently joined the game.

Every single time the creators of those threads think that once you cut on “those OP EX/GX cards” they can play whatever random pile of junk they want.

I can't stress this enough:

There will always be a set of cards that are superior to the rest: More HP, More Damage, easier to set up, more better support from trainer cards, etc.

 

If you play a badly designed deck with weak Pokemon, it is going to stay exactly that, no matter which arbitrary shackles you put on the format. Does that mean you can't play with your favourite cards and win? Not by a long shot, but you need to invest time into your deck and try out what works and what doesn't.

 

Thank you for your input.

 


"I'll same you time and answer it for you: In the span of a couple of weeks the best decks have been identified and you are going to face those back to back in every match, except those in the bottom of the ELO ranks that don't know how to build decks."

 

I think this statement conflicts with the next one you give, where you state this feature is heavily sought after by beginners who "recently joined the game." Thus, by your logic, this format would contain more beginners. There's no doubt that some would put an effort into becoming strong within the format, but I don't think there's a reason to believe it will be to the same extent as in the open format. This is evident if you play Legacy versus - there is a lot of variation in opponents, ranging from a few hardcore META decks to a broader field of all kinds of decks, some reminiscent of theme decks but with different Pokemon combinations and trainer.

 


"We see this “no EX / GX format” thread aprox. Every couple of weeks, always posted by beginners who recently joined the game."

 

Well, if that's the case, the feature seems quite wanted - So i ask, what harm do you think it would do to try it out? 

 

I think it would be great if this suggestion could result in just a bit more appeal to a more casual audience - and I don't see how it would affect the other popular versus mode's in any way. Where's the potential loss?

 


"Every single time the creators of those threads think that once you cut on “those OP EX/GX cards” they can play whatever random pile of junk they want."

 

No, not "every single time", and I guess my post is a good example. Also, my suggestion is less based on an idea of EX/GX being "OP", (In fact, I love watching people at championships trying to outsmart each other) and more about it being more hardcore, money/time dependent and last but not least - very different from the way many of us "oldtimers" used to play PCG in our youth.

 


"There will always be a set of cards that are superior to the rest: More HP, More Damage, easier to set up, more better support from trainer cards, etc."

 

As I have already stated, I acknowledge that META's can and will arise under any circumstances. I don't think people who would play this suggested versus mode think their early generation Raticate deck can stomp the field. 

 


 

Best regards,

Gaggingqueen 

Edited by Gaggingqueen

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Otakutron

Hello Gaggingqueen,

 

Let me introduce myself.  I began playing the Pokémon Trading Card Game (PTCG) around its original North American release (January, 1999).  I shifted to the Pokémon Trading Card Game Online in May of 2014, and have played via the PTCGO exclusively since then.  I'm far from the greatest player in the world, but I've got a decent understanding of the game in general and the PTCGO as well.  While it doesn't count for much, I've also been writing about the PTCG (and sometimes the PTCGO) since the early 2000s, though usually as an unpaid hobby.

 

Your suggestion is similar to something we see quite frequently on the message board.  A frequent suggestion does not automatically mean it is good or bad.  It may be telling when something is suggested over and over again, but not implemented; either the Dev Team cannot or will not execute the idea.


While it has not been explicitly stated, the PTCGO only has so many players and the Dev Team (the folks who work on the PTCGO) a certain amount of time and other resources.  It has been strongly implied if we want a new Format, one of the old ones has to give.  It has also been implied, if not clearly stated, the idea of the Versus Mode is you'll be facing anyone within a given format, and that is why you are allowed to earn rewards in that mode.

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Anexpor

nice idea. they can add this mode like modified theme decks without ex/gx

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WingsofFire1014

I agree with Felidae.

 

EX and GX's cards are not the ONLY Pokemon that win. For example, Vespiquen (although it was some time ago). I also see that there was no such thing as GX's back in its Golden Days. But, I still use this deck in expanded with Vileplume, and win 65% of my matches even without Forest Of Giant Plants.

 

To add to what Felidae said, if you were to build a deck with 59 water energy and 1 Magikarp, that wouldn't get you anywhere. Even, in a anti-EX\GX format.

 

This still could be a good idea for players who are trying to get away from the "Theme Deck" format. Getting bulldozed by the top tier meta decks is no fun. 

 

I personally think that this wouldn't be a good idea to use to learn the game better, because it doesn't teach you how to deal with the best and it also doesn't show you how to tech your deck to beat them. Although, if I were still using my garbage decks from the beginning days, I would've loved this.

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eman2056

Yes! This is my first time on the forum, and I was going to start a thread about this very suggestion, before I saw this. With my friends, I always use this rule. Part of the problem is that I want to be able to use some more cards that become unusable when EX, GX, BREAK, and other cards of that sort are involved *cough* stage 2 pokemon *cough*.

 

Still, I think this shows the underlying problem that the new cards are made to be overpowered. Yes, you still can find good cards from gen 4, but they are falling behind relatively quickly. Take for example the average HP per stage, and damage per energy. 100 damage for 3 energy used to be considered exceptionally powerful, but now it seems to be much more common. Also, stage 2 Pokemon used to have HP of around 130-140 in gen 5, but now it is hovering around 170. 

 

Yet, I think this power progression is necessary to some extent. Allow me to make an analogy to inflation (because this is pretty much inflation, but with card power). You want inflation, but you want to keep it at as small a rate as possible.

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SKBellmore

I’m gonna make a predicted meta for a Non-GX/EX format (for Standard, as I am not that knowledgeable on Expanded.)

 

Spoiler

Tier 1

 

Zapdos/Jirachi

Spoiler

If this deck can be successful against Tag Teams in major tournaments, just imagine how good it’ll be here.

 

Baby Blacephalon

Spoiler

This deck has so many tools it can use,  it is arguably one of the most hyped decks from Unbroken Bonds, and with no restrictions on trainers, you can see where this is going.

 

QuagNag

Spoiler

Although it has some notable losses in this format (namely MagiLord), it has many attackers it can still utilize, and could easily be a counter to Baby Blacephalon.

 

Tier 1.5

 

Dewgong

Spoiler

With TAE, this can become a real threat, as knocking out two benched Pokémon for one attachment is really phenomenal.

 

Aerodactyl

Spoiler

A solid 180 damage per turn, whether with TAE, Malamar, Volcanion, etc.

 

Alolan Exeggutor

Spoiler

Because of Shuckle still being present, this is still pretty much the same deck, and 120 damage against all Non-GXes is really good.

 

Tier 2

 

Charizard

Spoiler

Although the loss of Fairy Ninetales GX is super big, this deck can be a threat, as a free 130 against all Non-GXes is awesome. This could have issues with evolving into Charizard though.

 

Garchomp

Spoiler

We’ve all seen this with Lucario, and how consistent it can be with the right deck build. Although it shares the loss of Ninetales GX with Charizard, it’s Ascencion attack’s are not too bad.

 

Stall

Spoiler

Although with losses like Shuckle GX, and Hoopa being useless, you still have Vileplume, Regigigas, and more.

 

 

If you have any additions or Tier changes you think should be put in effect, let me know.

 

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BowserLuigi

EX/GX scare new players. They have little to no means to deal with them and it's not their fault. Think about it: you just started and have a whole bunch of horrible cards with no synergy. It's depressing that one really bad Guzzlord deck is enough to stop them and make them feel utter despair and fully convinced that EX/GX are OP, but once they get past that stage, a non-EX/GX format would seem like a joke to them, purely because there are primarily non-GX decks in standard already. 

 

In a nutshell, a non-EX/GX format will probably never ever be implemented, cuz there's hardly any point. Expose them to EX/GX and they'll learn faster. 

 

 

 

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Jigglypuffan

-------------

 

For good player elo , it would be boring.. There is some good deck that destroy everyone.. some example:

 

night marsh / lost marsh / trevenant forest curse/ greninja break and more..

 

--------------------------------------

 

For player with low elo it would make sens.. They generally have bad deck .. And a gx is strong for bad player..

 

So with low player elo , it would be nice.

 

-------------

 

I won't say more because i have no opinion.. But what i said earlier is my thinking about it.

 

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SandaledOtter
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jigglypuffan said:

-------------

 

For good player elo , it would be boring.. There is some good deck that destroy everyone.. some example:

 

night marsh / lost marsh / trevenant forest curse/ greninja break and more..

 

--------------------------------------

 

For player with low elo it would make sens.. They generally have bad deck .. And a gx is strong for bad player..

 

So with low player elo , it would be nice.

 

-------------

 

I won't say more because i have no opinion.. But what i said earlier is my thinking about it.

 

 

But those decks named ARE in use by better players.Three of them are Expanded only, which is likely where new players would start, since they have the theme decks that tend to pass out of standard. The people using those would come along at the start of each new ladder and trample the new players seeking a haven in a no-GX/EX zone. They'd finish off the ladder before moving on, stomping on 70-80 dreamers each in the process.

Edited by SandaledOtter

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