so this trade thing is a thing?

[trii_senpai]

[Edited by Mod_Turtle: Only official Pokémon links are allowed on the forum]

 

so this is legal? ask for same card for less pack, sell the same card for more pack.. and its the exact same, nothin like different design etc

i hope no fool fall for this

[OU7C4ST]

2 hours ago, trii_senpai said:

so this is legal? ask for same card for less pack, sell the same card for more pack.. and its the exact same, nothin like different design etc

i hope no fool fall for this

People are at liberty to trade however they see fit. Trades like this have been going on since the game's release. However, smarter traders will spend more time in-between their buying & selling offers of the same thing to make it less obvious. Some users.. not so smart in their decision making.

[Chasista]

Any trade is legal. It's a free market.

 

Is responsibility of every trainer to CHECK for if a trade is fair or not and if they are comfortable with the methods of some traders. We could call some of them profiteers.

 

Most of the people use this same method to win some packs little by little. Try to get a card a bit cheaper and try to "sell" it a bit more expensive. The more sweet of these trades will offer for example 1 TEU pack+1LOT pack (or GUR or another) and try to get 2 TEU packs. TEU is more valuable than rest of the sets so indeed they are increasing the value of their packs and changing a LOT or GUR or another old pack for a TEU.

 

Then there's the "random card" factor. They offer 1 TEU and one trainer or item or another pokémon (in this case could be a water trainer for example or another pokemon used in the deck the main card of the trade is used) to be over the offers offering only 1 pack. Hey if you can choose, you'll get the one with a "free" trainer or pokémon for the same price. Even if the benefit is only a regular simple energy.

 

Next is more straight profiteer mode, like the one you shown, no intermediate. Offer 1 pack, and get 2. Benefit is higher. Not telling this user is a profiteer, just comparing ones and other trades. Of course always depends of the value of the cards involved.

 

Over this there's only the foolish trades, I've seen some today. Someone offering 6 shining water energies, no SR, no special. 6 energies worth close to 0, even if they look cool. They wanted Flareon GX, Jolteon GX, some FA trainers (Guzma, Cynthia and more), Zeraora GX... a total of around 20 pokémon and cards, all rare or higher rarity. Any of these cards worth the less 12 packs each. I'll never understand why people set this kind of trades.

 

Back to the topic, you always can check 'I'm getting' and 'I'm offering' for the same card, and check who's doing what tricks. You'll see who have 5 offers of the same card (big traders) and who's trying to get it for themselves, to play mainly, or at least who's not vastly rich. And probably there's some single offer now and then equal to the "big traders" ones. You can accept these if you feel better about it.

 

A bit out of the topic again, how can they make 80, 100, 120 trades each 8h all at the same time? That's for example 800 tokens, let's say they do trades couple times a day = 1600. If they get 50 trades accepted each time = 1200 tokens lost by not successful trades daily. Is it possible to win that amount of tokens daily once and again? They don't live outside the game? They don't seem to appear in the charts of more points won monthly (although these don't work very good anyway). Or is it maybe they have multiple accounts to accept own trades and not loosing huge amounts of coins every time? This, WOULDN'T be legal. Either way if they have a "family"  linked account, they can trade with the other, even if they are managing all the accounts. I think. And it seems TPCi can't make anything about it.

 

Being honest, there would be a lot less market without them, and prices would move down slower. They adjust a lot of times to win a bit less because even winning less, it's interesting to win something and with high amount of trades, a lot of a bit becomes a big thing.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Chasista

[Sniperi96]

7 hours ago, Chasista said:

A bit out of the topic again, how can they make 80, 100, 120 trades each 8h all at the same time? That's for example 800 tokens, let's say they do trades couple times a day = 1600. If they get 50 trades accepted each time = 1200 tokens lost by not successful trades daily. Is it possible to win that amount of tokens daily once and again? They don't live outside the game? They don't seem to appear in the charts of more points won monthly (although these don't work very good anyway). Or is it maybe they have multiple accounts to accept own trades and not loosing huge amounts of coins every time? This, WOULDN'T be legal. Either way if they have a "family"  linked account, they can trade with the other, even if they are managing all the accounts. I think. And it seems TPCi can't make anything about it.

 

Running 100 trades isn't impossibility by all fair means as zororak puzzle is friend. For instance the said example with 100 trades with 50% success means 400 lost coins. Each zoroark puzzle is doable in around  20 secs and gives 3 coins. That means 9 coins per min and 90 per 10 min and to get that 400 coins in around 1h 5 mins during which you can be watching videos or whatever. Is this worth it?Well, not unless you absolutely want to keep up crazy number of trades but as someone who has been grinding in games such as hearthstone or League of Legends I wouldn't view that too farfetched if someone would use 2 hour of their time to grind tokens and then 1,5 hours to set up trades per day. Ofcourse this is made even faster by completing daily quests.

 

edit:If someone is doing 200 trades per day and only succeeding 50, they are definitely doing something wrong.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Sniperi96

[Sniperi96]

12 hours ago, OU7C4ST said:

People are at liberty to trade however they see fit. Trades like this have been going on since the game's release. However, smarter traders will spend more time in-between their buying & selling offers of the same thing to make it less obvious. Some users.. not so smart in their decision making.

I admit I'm both "buying" and "selling" cards at the same time and I haven't noticed any actual effect. It would seem it's rather more significantly affected by timeframe the trades  are up. Ofcourse, I'm really happy with trades that are "buy with 2 packs, sell with 3" meaning I'm only doing 50% win per trade instead of 100% (buy with 1,sell with 2) but so far  this works for me.

 

edit:It ofcourse could be that I limit 4-6 trades per card so grossing of buy offers and selling offers happens significantly less.Currently I'm not trading cards for packs and vice versa but rather testing if I can start making significant profit with commons( 1 common A for 2 common B, 1 common B for 2 common C, 1 common C for 2 common  D, 1 common D for 1 common A) but this seems to be limited greatly by the coins before I can acquire enough commons to turn them into significant number of packs(compared to the amount I would be doing by just making cards for packs and packs for cards trades.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Sniperi96

[RobRatt]

15 minutes ago, Sniperi96 said:

edit:It ofcourse could be that I limit 4-6 trades per card so grossing of buy offers and selling offers happens significantly less.Currently I'm not trading cards for packs and vice versa but rather testing if I can start making significant profit with commons( 1 common A for 2 common B, 1 common B for 2 common C, 1 common C for 2 common  D, 1 common D for 1 common A) but this seems to be limited greatly by the coins before I can acquire enough commons to turn them into significant number of packs(compared to the amount I would be doing by just making cards for packs and packs for cards trades.

 

Good luck with that.  If a farmer trades potatoes for carrots, and carrots for apples, it won't do him much good when he needs cash for a new tractor.

 

JSYK, it's quite easy to pick up 50-100 Commons for a single pack (any recent pack, not even the latest).  This sounds like a lot of work, for what you've termed, "profit."

[Sniperi96]

14 hours ago, RobRatt said:

 

Good luck with that.  If a farmer trades potatoes for carrots, and carrots for apples, it won't do him much good when he needs cash for a new tractor.

 

JSYK, it's quite easy to pick up 50-100 Commons for a single pack (any recent pack, not even the latest).  This sounds like a lot of work, for what you've termed, "profit."

It's not exactly trading apples for carrots. For instance:

In  beginning I have one  card, card A. By trading A for 2 B, I now have 2 B. By trading both B for C I have now 4 C. By trading Cs for Ds I have now 8 D. By trading D  back to As I have now 8 A but I can do the whole cycle again meaning after second cycle I have in fact 64 A. And should everything go smoothly(which it ofcorse won't do), after 3rd round, 64*8 would mean 512  A.

Also it may seem odd but people are surprisingly willing to trade two very playable commons for 1 played uncommon and then 2 played uncommons 1 one pack. Is this madness?Yes, most likely it is but I find it fascinating to test the system even if it's most likely not the most efficient way of doing things.

 

50-100 commons for 1 pack? Certainly if those are  random unplayable ones. But I would be surprised if you could get 50 of any common played in meta decks for one pack.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Sniperi96

[OU7C4ST]

On 4/21/2019 at 1:17 PM, Sniperi96 said:

Running 100 trades isn't impossibility by all fair means as zororak puzzle is friend. For instance the said example with 100 trades with 50% success means 400 lost coins. Each zoroark puzzle is doable in around  20 secs and gives 3 coins. That means 9 coins per min and 90 per 10 min and to get that 400 coins in around 1h 5 mins during which you can be watching videos or whatever. Is this worth it?Well, not unless you absolutely want to keep up crazy number of trades but as someone who has been grinding in games such as hearthstone or League of Legends I wouldn't view that too farfetched if someone would use 2 hour of their time to grind tokens and then 1,5 hours to set up trades per day. Ofcourse this is made even faster by completing daily quests.

 

edit:If someone is doing 200 trades per day and only succeeding 50, they are definitely doing something wrong.

Didn't they take out Zoroark Puzzle a few months back?

[Chasista]

8 minutes ago, OU7C4ST said:

Didn't they take out Zoroark Puzzle a few months back?

 

No. But you need Flash in your browser (a lot of browsers moved from being based in Flash to HTML5, for security reasons mainly). Basically you need to turn on the Flash option and allow the execution. If not, you won't be able to see the Zoroark game as the game is still in Flash, no matter the browser you use.

[BowserLuigi]

A lot of people don't want to admit this but passive marketing is probably your best source for packs if you're a F2P player with limited time for tourneys. 

 

Usually you want to buy your stock at below market price, so if a GX normally costs 2 cheap packs, try getting them with 1 cheap pack each so you can resell them at market price. Or be more subtle like this (I'm too lazy to check pack values right now so no set names this time) 

- X pack (value: 1) 

- Y pack (value: 0.5)

- Z pack (value: 0.25)

 

Market price of card A: 1.5

 

So you buy card A with pack X and Z, sell card A to get pack X and Y, trade pack Y for 2 pack Z, then repeat as many times as needed. 

 

Or you can go hardcore marketing mode and buy yourself up. Start with a useless common, trade for a useful theme common, trade that for a useful non-theme common, trade that for a theme uncommon etc until you get something that can net you a pack (or go full hardcore and trade all the way up to a Lele). 

 

Now all this sounds a little scummy (like real life tbh), and it's what trading companies actually do to get a profit. Technically it's not illegal but keep in mind that it's not a highly encouraged practice, so use with discretion (yes I admit I had done this before). 

Edited April 24, 2019 by BowserLuigi

[Sniperi96]

4 hours ago, BowserLuigi said:

Or you can go hardcore marketing mode and buy yourself up. Start with a useless common, trade for a useful theme common, trade that for a useful non-theme common, trade that for a theme uncommon etc until you get something that can net you a pack (or go full hardcore and trade all the way up to a Lele). 

 

Now all this sounds a little scummy (like real life tbh), and it's what trading companies actually do to get a profit. Technically it's not illegal but keep in mind that it's not a highly encouraged practice, so use with discretion (yes I admit I had done this before). 

Especially if trading card little by little in value, I find it really hard to find anything scummy about it. Even with trading for profit with packs, my philosophy is that if people want something I have, they can have it for my price. They have all the information in front of them(the market, the trade itself)to check if it's fair. On the other hand it's usually for me better to keep the prices reasonale because of the market. 

[BowserLuigi]

16 hours ago, Sniperi96 said:

Especially if trading card little by little in value, I find it really hard to find anything scummy about it. Even with trading for profit with packs, my philosophy is that if people want something I have, they can have it for my price. They have all the information in front of them(the market, the trade itself)to check if it's fair. On the other hand it's usually for me better to keep the prices reasonale because of the market. 

Believe it or not I got a dislike once for mentioning it on another topic. So I just assumed this practice doesn't sit well with some people. 

[Sniperi96]

4 hours ago, BowserLuigi said:

Believe it or not I got a dislike once for mentioning it on another topic. So I just assumed this practice doesn't sit well with some people. 

I have encountered too many cases in other games of player disliking something just because it didn't suit their own thoughts or they didn't like to hear the truth to be surprised by anything by this point. If trading card for up in value little by little isn't acceptable, then it shouldn't be acceptable to make profit at all(especially not packs of it). On the other hand it then rises question, what exactly is acceptable trade(because cards really don't have values written on them). I think if something, devs should include system that would allow players to tradelock their cards(temporarily) and then make it very clear that the responsibility of the trade being fair is completely on the one who clicks accept. I see it quite strange that the ones who create offer should have any responsibility. It's their perception of the values.

The situation where there is one "truth" of value and at the same time  that truth is based on player's perception of the value just doesn't make any sense.

[SuperStone]

On 4/25/2019 at 1:03 AM, Sniperi96 said:

I have encountered too many cases in other games of player disliking something just because it didn't suit their own thoughts

...Is this not the reason anyone dislikes anything? 

 

BowserLuigi is correct that this practice does not sit well with some people.  The problem, really, is because of an emergent phenomenon.  You individually up-trading isn't a problem, and there's nothing I find wrong with it, on a minor level.  Of course, more extreme up-trading will always be seen as taking advantage of others' urgency for profiteering, but that's beside the point.  The thing here is that, simply, it isn't just you.  Half the players in the game regularly post trades hoping to get a bit more than they give.  Morally, that is no different a situation, and so shouldn't be a problem.  But one emerges nonetheless...

 

The trading system has never had very good filtering.  It seems to me that the minor changes they've made recently made it worse, not better- it now inconsistently loads new trades when you search for specifics.  Without a better filter system, you are stuck wading through tons and tons and Jangmoan tons of simply bad offers.  At a given time, there are usually only three trades I accept.  That's out of hundreds in the list.  (I do two checks- one filtered to getting wants, one for giving FTs.)  True, I dismiss many even ones just because I don't want what they're offering, but the vast majority are rejected for imbalance.

This is why I don't like methodical up-trading.  Not because you don't deserve profits for your efforts, but because it makes the trading environment unhealthy.

 

Sorry for the necro.

Edited June 18, 2019 by SuperStone

[Sniperi96]

13 hours ago, SuperStone said:

...Is this not the reason anyone dislikes anything? 

Reading the whole sentence: "I have encountered too many cases in other games of player disliking something just because it didn't suit their own thoughts or they didn't like to hear the truth to be surprised by anything by this point."

I may have worded once again badly, but in nutshell, I view the situation much like Platon's allegory of cave. New information is scary. Sometimes it may be completely against our expectations, we don't want our mind to be changed, we are much happier watching the shadows than seeing the truth so we reject it.

 

But, I find it amusing that instead of looking at the new information we often instead decide to shoot the messenger. Messenger doesn't necessarily have any particular opinion on the information, he just showed it on us. It is then up to us do we use that info and how. I think there is no such thing as bad information if it's truth, there are just bad usecases for that info. Knowing you can create profit from trading doesn't mean the person who brought you the information would themselves use this information nor said you needed or should use it. 

 

We can disagree with opinions, but facts are undebatable. That's why I don't think we necessarily should dislike the one telling the information. However, we can on the other hand debate all day long about what kind of use of this information is acceptable.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Sniperi96