[CARD] Shedinja (LOT 95)

[C0L3Y3]

When you use Shedinja's "Vessel of Life" Ability, the Nincada it evolves from is discarded. Some people think this is correct but it isn't. Nincada is not "attached" so shouldn't be discarded. As a general rule Pokemon and all stages underneath are treated as the highest stage Pokemon. The ruling for AZ clarifies this, which says to put one of your Pokemon into your hand and discard any cards attached to it.

Q. When playing the AZ supporter, do I put all Pokemon stages into my hand, or just the Basic or highest stage?
A. You put all of the Pokemon cards into your hand, including all Stages and Mega cards. (Phantom Forces FAQ; Nov 13, 2014 TPCi Rules Team)

 

[RobRatt]

When you use Shedinja's "Vessel of Life" Ability, the Nincada it evolves from is discarded. Some people think this is correct but it isn't. Nincada is not "attached" so shouldn't be discarded. As a general rule Pokemon and all stages underneath are treated as the highest stage Pokemon. The ruling for AZ clarifies this, which says to put one of your Pokemon into your hand and discard any cards attached to it.

Q. When playing the AZ supporter, do I put all Pokemon stages into my hand, or just the Basic or highest stage?

A. You put all of the Pokemon cards into your hand, including all Stages and Mega cards. (Phantom Forces FAQ; Nov 13, 2014 TPCi Rules Team)

 

Oops.... Here's the official ruling on this:

 

Q. When using Shedinja's "Vessel of Life" Ability is the underlying Nincada discarded, or does it get attached as part of the Pokemon Tool?

A. The Nincada is discarded; only the Shedinja card gets attached as a Pokemon Tool. (Dec 27, 2018 TPCi Rules Team)

 

Back in January, after this official ruling, a bug was reported (and subsequently fixed?) because the game wasn't properly discarding the Nincada underneath.

 

Prior to that, in November, before this official ruling, nobody really knew what the correct answer was.  It could have gone either way, depending on the "order of operations."

 

But there is an official ruling now, so your example, using the AZ Supporter, and one I used in an earlier post, with Rescue Scarf, are not right.  I'm not sure of the logic they used, but I would have thought the "whole Pokémon" would stay together too.  Good guesses, but incorrect.

 

P.S.  Looks like Jumpluff will need to work a little harder. 

Edited April 15, 2019 by RobRatt

[SandaledOtter]

I'd guess that any evolved pokemon which attaches itself to another discards its prior evolutions. The only one I can think of right now though is Buzzap Thunder Electrode, which knocks itself out and attaches as an energy, discarding the Voltorb card.

[C0L3Y3]

Oops.... Here's the official ruling on this:

 

Q. When using Shedinja's "Vessel of Life" Ability is the underlying Nincada discarded, or does it get attached as part of the Pokemon Tool?

A. The Nincada is discarded; only the Shedinja card gets attached as a Pokemon Tool. (Dec 27, 2018 TPCi Rules Team)

 

Back in January, after this official ruling, a bug was reported (and subsequently fixed?) because the game wasn't properly discarding the Nincada underneath.

 

Prior to that, in November, before this official ruling, nobody really knew what the correct answer was.  It could have gone either way, depending on the "order of operations."

 

But there is an official ruling now, so your example, using the AZ Supporter, and one I used in an earlier post, with Rescue Scarf, are not right.  I'm not sure of the logic they used, but I would have thought the "whole Pokémon" would stay together too.  Good guesses, but incorrect.

 

P.S.  Looks like Jumpluff will need to work a little harder. 

 

Fair enough. I really don't see why this is ruled that way.

[RobRatt]

Fair enough. I really don't see why this is ruled that way.

I tend to agree with you.

 

The example @SandaledOtter used makes perfect sense.  Electrode has to knock himself out to use the Ability.  You would expect the Basic to go in the discard before the Ability allows him to attach as a Lightning Energy.

 

There are a few possibilities (and maybe more) with this ruling on Shedinja:

 

1.  There's a mistranslation of the original Japanese wording.

 

2.  Whoever initially determined this rule is mistaken.

 

3.  They are setting a new precedent when a Stage 1 is being attached as a Tool.

 

Unlike the Electrode example, Shedinja is not being knocked out, and the wording just says to "discard all cards attached to this Pokémon."  Like mentioned above, attachments are things like Energy or Tools, not the underlying Pokémon.  I can't think of any recent example where a Pokémon is being separated this way.

 

Regardless, it is what it is, unless they modify this ruling or the Compendium.  At least everybody is playing with the same set of rules until then.