A terrible player invested in a Zoroark-GX deck and needs help.

[AutumnAlchemist]

Good afternoon players of the TCG!

 

I invested a lot of my time into trading up for a bunch of Zoroark-GX cards, but I soon realized that I'm no good at building a competent deck... oof.

 

The following list is what my deck is currently built of; I would like some of you guys give a couple of suggestions to help improve it. Thanks!

 

Pokémon - 16

 

* 4 Zorua BKT 89

* 4 Zoroark-GX PR-SM 84

* 3 Nidoran♀ TEU 54

* 2 Nidorina TEU 55

* 2 Nidoqueen TEU 56

* 1 Keldeo-EX PR-BLW 61

 

Trainer Cards - 36

 

* Loto GRI 122

* 1 Professor Sycamore BKP 107

* 1 Eco Arm AOR 71

* 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130

* 1 PokéNav CES 140

* 2 N DEX 96

* 1 Rare Candy SUM 129

* 2 Lysandre AOR 78

* 2 Brigette BKT 134

* 2 Chaos Tower FCO 94

* 2 Evosoda XY 116

* 2 Cynthia UPR 119

* 1 Special Charge STS 105

* 1 Field Blower GRI 125

* 2 Guzma BUS 115

* 1 Colress PLS 118

* 2 Choice Band GRI 121

* 2 Float Stone BKT 137

* 3 Ultra Ball FCO 113

* 2 Muscle Band XY 121

* 1 Rock Guard PLF 108

* 1 VS Seeker PHF 109

 

Energy - 8

 

* 4 Double Colorless Energy FCO 114

* 4 Darkness Energy XYEnergy 1

 

(Edited to add the name of the card collections)

Edited April 15, 2019 by AutumnAlchemist

[Sniperi96]

Keep the import text you get from game as it is instead of removing set names etc.Currently it's really difficult to know for instance which Nidoqueen you are playing. However few things I can say right away

-Keldeo EX only hits for 50 which and is therefore only giving opponent decently easy access to 2 price cards and eating bench space

-be it actually any nidoqueen line, as stage 2 line it synergises quite poorly with zoroark due to the fact that zoroark wants you to ideally be able to fill bench with pokemons. In this sense stage 2 lines(both the stage 1 and final evolution of the line) are making it difficult for you to hit big numbers with zoroark because many times you are drawing pokemons that you cannot put straight into bench. Instead the more commonly used tactic would be using stage 1 lines (eg. garbodors, lycanroc gx, weavile, alolan muk)

-eco arm, while recycling rock guard seems questionable due to low speed. Also I would opt for dowsing machine or computer search as ace spec.

-I would opt for sky fields instead of chaos tower as stadium.

As example list:

Greensboro regional, Arlo Neel's 4th place list (expanded format)

 

Pokemon - 26

4 Zorua DEX 70

4 Zoroark-GX SLG 53

1 Zoroark BKT 91

1 Ditto Prism Star LOT 154

1 Trubbish NVI 48

1 Trubbish GRI 50

2 Garbodor GRI 51

1 Garbodor BKP 57

2 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60

2 Shaymin-EX ROS 77

2 Exeggcute PLF 4

1 Mr. Mime PLF 47

1 Mr. Mime TEU 66

1 Klefki STS 80

1 Sudowoodo GRI 66

1 Oricorio GRI 56

 

Trainer - 28

2 Colress PLS 118

1 Guzma BUS 115

1 Brigette BKT 134

1 Professor Sycamore BKP 107

1 N FCO 105

4 VS Seeker PHF 109

4 Ultra Ball SUM 135

1 Pokemon Communication BLW 99

1 Battle Compressor PHF 92

1 Field Blower GRI 125

1 Red Card GEN 71

1 Super Rod BKT 149

1 Special Charge STS 105

1 Computer Search BCR 137

2 Choice Band GRI 121

2 Float Stone BKT 137

3 Sky Field ROS 89

 

Energy - 6

4 Double Colorless Energy SUM 136

2 Psychic Energy 5

Edited April 14, 2019 by Sniperi96

[AutumnAlchemist]

Hey Sniperi!  Thanks for your insight, it was vey helpful.  Although I may not currently be able to afford some of these cards (Computer Search and Tapu-Lele-GX to name a few,) I should be able to work up to them in a matter of time.

(Thanks again for telling me how to use Zoroark properly.)

Have a nice day!

Edited April 14, 2019 by AutumnAlchemist

[Sniperi96]

You are welcome

[Chasista]

I'll go on with the TEU line of Nido, the 3-2-2 from Relentless flame and 3 Energy loto so, your deck would look like:

##Pokémon - 16
* 4 Zorua DEX 70
* 4 Zoroark-GX SLG 53
* 3 Nidoran♀ TEU 54
* 2 Nidorina TEU 55
* 2 Nidoqueen TEU 56
* 1 Keldeo-EX BCR 49

##Trainer Cards -  36
3  €nergy Loto GRI 122
* 1 Professor Sycamore XY 122
* 1 Eco Arm AOR 71
* 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 1 PokéNav CES 140
* 2 N FCO 105
* 1 Rare Candy UL 82
* 2 Lysandre FLF 90
* 2 Brigette BKT 134
* 2 Chaos Tower FCO 94
* 2 Evosoda XY 116
* 2 Cynthia UPR 119
* 1 Special Charge STS 105
* 1 Field Blower GRI 125
* 2 Guzma BUS 115
* 1 Colress PLS 118
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 2 Float Stone PLF 99
* 2 Muscle Band XY 121
* 3 Ultra Ball PLB 90
* 1 Rock Guard PLF 108
* 1 VS Seeker PHF 109

##Energy - 8
* 4 Double Colorless Energy SUM 136
* 4 Darkness Energy Energy 7

Total Cards - 60

There are several points you could improve from the deck. Some had been told above.

Nidoqueen have a nice attack and the idea is not bad, Zoroark is a star and helps to draw when item lock, supporter lock and other hard circumstances. Nidoqueen is a stage 2 tho so you'll spend 3 turns to evolve it, it's too much so you need 3 or 4 Rare candy. The right Evo line would be more 3-1-3 for example than 3-2-2.

Keldeo is good but with the energy choice is only to Rush in. You could use the Stand in Zoroark (BKT 91). Have a nice attack for a DCE, gives one prize and can be search with Nido ability so its all advantages over Keldeo.

Exeggcute PLF 4 is huge for Zorark based decks. Is a free Trade every time, a free Ultra ball discard if you play 2 or a help if you play one, a free Mysterious treasure... Huge!

I don't know what Zorua you play. The DEX 70 is the best one for expanded, specially in 4DCE only decks. I recommend this one. However, as you're playing Dark energies, the DEX 69/LTr 89 could work, but I do like the BKT 89 a bit more. Or simply the SHL 52. Or a mix! Haha.


Trainers is the most important part of the deck. You have a lot and most of the staples but still:

4 Vs seeker (some Expanded Meta decks use 3, but never less). Vs seeker is another use for the used supporters. That's huge. 4 Vs seeker allows you to run only 1 copy of some and have a wider variety.

If 4 Vs seeker you actually don't need 2 Lysandre+2 Guzma,  One plus one, or 2 of the one you choose to play.
You could play 1 N, 1 Sycamore/Juniper, 1 Acerola/AZ, 1 Faba. 1 Cynthia, 1 Judge, 1 Brigette... Not all of them, but single copies work in some decks.

2 Brigette is for consistency. Either way I use to play 1 in my Zoro decks and still works. If priced you set up different and if not, is only the 1st turn supporter. In normal circumstances you're not going to use it anymore so, is worth 2 in the deck? For your list I think Prof Elm's lecture will work the same. If we change it a bit and add some of the usual partners of Zoroark: Sudowoodo, Mr Mime, AT Bunnelby, sometimes Tirtouga (or any of the other Prehistoric call pokés), Ditto {*}, Alolan Muk, the less UPR Oranguru), then Brigette fits better.

What I would do is 2 Colress. That's very good, specially if you play Sky field as stadium.

For the rest, unless something specific for a double Guzma (like Golisopod GX), I would play 1 of each (Sycamore/Juniper, N, Acerola/AZ, Faba if you want, Cynthia...).

You have too much tools. Usually the space is so tight that 3 or 4 is the maximum played. 2 Choice+1 Float or 2 Float+1 Choice. No Muscle band, and no Eco arm as competitive cards anymore. Although I don't see so bad to play the Eco arm if works for you.

The best Ace spec are Computer search and Dowsing machine. Expensive tho, so you can try to get Scramble switch, Scoop up cyclone, or Master switch (in this same order of best to "not so best"). Rock guard (and Life dew) only need a Field blower to be history in the game.

 

I see the budget but Shaymin EX and Tapu Lele GX are important cards. Think once  you have Lele, you'll use 2 or 3 in every deck at least until September! And Shaymin will remain in Expanded for long. Those are expensive but worth to have. Lele is around 12 packs I think, Shaymin I don't really know as there's not such a big market for it right now but probably 5 to 7 packs each. A couple of each would be enough in most cases.

I would try the deck like the next to start, and make little changes over the time if you think something is missing or there's something you can remove.

##Pokémon - 18
* 1 Ditto {*} LOT 154
* 4 Zorua DEX 70
* 1 Zoroark BKT 91
* 4 Zoroark-GX SLG 53
* 1 Exeggcute PLF 4
* 3 Nidoran♀ TEU 54
* 1 Nidorina TEU 55
* 3 Nidoqueen TEU 56

##Trainer Cards - 34
* 1 Professor Sycamore XY 122
* 1 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 1 Super Rod BKT 149
* 1 N FCO 105
* 3 Rare Candy CES 142
* 1 Brigette BKT 134
* 3 Sky Field ROS 89
* 2 Evosoda XY 116
* 1 Cynthia UPR 119
* 1 Special Charge STS 105
* 1 Field Blower GRI 125
* 2 Guzma BUS 115
* 2 Colress PLS 118
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 2 Float Stone PLF 99
* 3 Mysterious Treasure FLI 113
* 2 Ultra Ball PLB 90
* 1 Scramble Switch PLS 129
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109

##Energy - 8
* 4 Double Colorless Energy SUM 136
* 4 Darkness Energy Energy 7

Total Cards - 60

Edited April 15, 2019 by Chasista

[AutumnAlchemist]

Chasista, thanks for taking the time to explain how and why certain things would work over others!

Your thoughts (as well as the deck idea) are very appreciated!

[Chasista]

You're welcome. Let us know if you change anything and if work better the new way.

 

Of course I just guessed the Nido line (can be a different the one you play). For the rest tho, the analysis should be quite accurate. The skeleton of Zoroark GX in Expanded is quite the same for every deck but just changing the partners: Golisopod GX, Lucario GX, Garbodor "toxin", Garbodor Trashalanche (or mix of both), Lycanroc/Buzz... and using focused trainers for each: Net ball, Mysterious treasure, Korrina/Focus sash/Strong energy/Diancie {*}, and so on.

[grriffinn]

After going through your Expanded Zoroark deck list and comparing it to ones I've seen I've identified a few issues...

 

• About 28% of your Trainers consists of one-ofs, this hurts your deck's consistency and can make it difficult to get the Trainer you need for a specific time even if you take Zoroark-GX's Trade Ability into consideration.
• Certain cards that are considered key cards for the Expanded format are either too low in number (VS Seeker) or non-existent (Float Stone).
• Some cards, while good in theory and have seen use in both past and current decks, are either unnecessary or are outclassed compared to other cards.
• Incorrect Ace Spec: ALL Expanded decks run Computer Search because of its versatility. Dowsing Machine can be run a somewhat decent substitute but Computer Search is preferred.
• The Pokemon you're using to fill the roles of secondary attackers and support are iffy, Nidoqueen requires a lot of setup and is very Retreat-heavy while Keldeo-EX is fragile (as well as being a Basic Pokemon).

One thing I'd consider doing is to research the various Zoroark-centric builds found in both Expanded and Standard and see if there's one that you find interesting. Here are some examples I've seen...

• Zoroark GX/Garbodor (Garbodor GRI and Garbodor BKP, Expanded)
• Zoroark GX /Lycanroc GX GRI (Can be run with or without Lucario GX, Standard)
• Zoroark GX Control (with Oranguru UPM, Alolan Muk SM, and Girafarig LOT support; Standard)
• Zoroark GX/Gyarados BUS (Standard)

[AutumnAlchemist]

Thanks for the observation Grriffinn!

[AlexBYCA]

Possibly keep 2 zoroarks, same with zorua But then add sillvally but if there is such thing as dark memorys add 1. Also if you have TAG TEAM gengar and mimikyu add that. Possibly add some random cards and trainers. Then get some Psychic,Colourless,Dark and Special Double Colourless And Colourless energy that give you anything.

[Chasista]

After going through your Expanded Zoroark deck list and comparing it to ones I've seen I've identified a few issues...

 

• About 28% of your Trainers consists of one-ofs, this hurts your deck's consistency and can make it difficult to get the Trainer you need for a specific time even if you take Zoroark-GX's Trade Ability into consideration.
• Certain cards that are considered key cards for the Expanded format are either too low in number (VS Seeker) or non-existent (Float Stone).
• Some cards, while good in theory and have seen use in both past and current decks, are either unnecessary or are outclassed compared to other cards.
• Incorrect Ace Spec: ALL Expanded decks run Computer Search because of its versatility. Dowsing Machine can be run a somewhat decent substitute but Computer Search is preferred.
• The Pokemon you're using to fill the roles of secondary attackers and support are iffy, Nidoqueen requires a lot of setup and is very Retreat-heavy while Keldeo-EX is fragile (as well as being a Basic Pokemon).

One thing I'd consider doing is to research the various Zoroark-centric builds found in both Expanded and Standard and see if there's one that you find interesting. Here are some examples I've seen...

• Zoroark GX/Garbodor (Garbodor GRI and Garbodor BKP, Expanded)
• Zoroark GX /Lycanroc GX GRI (Can be run with or without Lucario GX, Standard)
• Zoroark GX Control (with Oranguru UPM, Alolan Muk SM, and Girafarig LOT support; Standard)
• Zoroark GX/Gyarados BUS (Standard)

 

> Uhm. Indeed 1-offs don't help the consistency, theoretically. That's right but,

 

Zoro/Goli with +41% of 1-off trainers, won Dallas Regional (over 800 players).

Zoro/Seismi with +57% of 1-off trainers was 2nd.

 

Zoro/Lycan with +35% won Ciba (China) with +300 players.

Other Zoro/Lycan with 37.5% was 4th.

 

Night March with 35% won Toronto.(+350 players)

Zoro/Garbo with +46% was second.

 

Drampa/Garbo with +30% won Greensboro (close to 400 players)

First Zoro deck, Zoro/Garbo, +39%, was 4th.

 

My Zoro/Goli version have +44% of 1-offs and it's one of the best Expanded decks I've played in Expanded. I know the game since B/W last sets release.

 

All decks have more 1-offs than 28% so, is 28% a problem? Is not only Zoroark Trade. Is Zoro Trade with Eggs (+ Battle compressor)+UB+Lele+Shaymin+Vs Seekers. Of course you get dead hands or miss the right trainer now and then, but the archetype allows to play the 1-offs a lot more than others. Different is he's missing some key cards, which leads to next point too.

 

> Yes, he is missing some Vs Seekers. Is not easy to be aware of the card and how good it is when starting the game. On the other side, every single list in this thread have 2 Float stones in it, not zero

 

> I guess you're talking about Eco arm, Poke nav, Lysandre maybe... giving examples or saying the cards you talk about when giving advice helps a lot. If not is like to say "the list is not good" but not saying why.

 

> Only incorrect Ace spec would be playing a Crystal with no Kyurem in deck or Victory piece in not Victini deck and so.

 

Playing a different than Computer search or Dowsing machine can't be said incorrect tho. Not EVERY deck plays Comp search or Dowsing machine. You can prefer Scramble switch in high energy requirement decks (Primal Groudon for example), Scoop up cyclone in these getting benefit from evolving  or benching a poke again (usually low energy requirement or high HP stalling) or Life dew in these saving giving prizes (like some mill decks). Of course Comp search and Dowsing machine are theoretically the best, but they are also the most expensive ones. I still remember selling one Computer search at 12 packs long ago and it was really a good deal. Now is a joke

 

> To say everything, yes, probably not the best partners, you're right. An interesting concept anyway.

 

 

Possibly keep 2 zoroarks, same with zorua But then add sillvally but if there is such thing as dark memorys add 1. Also if you have TAG TEAM gengar and mimikyu add that. Possibly add some random cards and trainers. Then get some Psychic,Colourless,Dark and Special Double Colourless And Colourless energy that give you anything.

 

Remove some Zoro and add Silvally? Different deck. There's no Dark memory and you already have a Dark attacker, why add the Memory to make Silvally also Dark? It would be a lot better to add some not included in deck types to hit for different weaknesses.

 

GengaKyu indeed is quite good. Different type of energy than OP deck. Nido is there because of colourless attack.

 

Random cards and trainers means nothing. I can't barely understand all the energies that have to add. I read even single colourless energies there

Edited April 16, 2019 by Chasista