Slight Problem with the Latest Ban List

[GrewupGeek]

Hey, I'm not sure if I'm the only one that has gone through this, but somehow, I have been dueling opponents that have been using cards that is supposed to be banned online, while I had to change the cards.  I'm wondering if there are those who were able to dodge the change, or find some kind of loophole, since more then once, I duelled somebody using the Ghestsis (Black & White—Plasma Freeze, 101/116 and 115/116) on me, which was the same card that I had to take out of my legacy decks, and one of expanded decks, in order to keep using in the game.  Or rather, it's the 101/116 one that gets used against me, the other one is blocked, at least on my account.

 

So out of curiosity, what's the deal?  When you were making the changes to the game to keep up with the ban list, somebody missed a few cards, or what?  Do I need to send a copy of the duel in order to provide some kind of proof or what, because it's annoying that I have to abide by the rules, while there seem to be those who are somehow able to circumvent them somehow.

[RobRatt]

I duelled somebody using the Ghestsis (Black & White—Plasma Freeze, 101/116 and 115/116) on me, which was the same card that I had to take out of my legacy decks, and one of expanded decks, in order to keep using in the game.

Ghetsis, any of them, can't be used in the Standard format, because it's too old, from a B&W set.

 

Ghetsis cannot be used in the Expanded format, because it's banned.  It's highly unlikely that someone has found a bug or glitch that would allow this.  If, as you say, they did play one in Expanded, you should submit that Game Log to the Support Team.

 

Ghetsis CAN be used in any Legacy decks.  The Legacy format (HGSS-BW) is an Online only format, and the banned list from Expanded would NOT take effect.

 

Ghetsis CAN be used in any Unlimited decks.  That means if you battled one-on-one with a friend, they wouldn't have any restriction from using it.

 

Does any of this help?

Edited December 17, 2018 by RobRatt

[GrewupGeek]

If Ghetsis is allowed to be used in the Legacy Decks, why was I prevented to use mine?  When the website upgraded, two of my legacy decks had Ghetsis in them, but they had the block symbol, that prevented me from using them, until I removed Ghetsis from both them.  What would cause that to happen?

[Sakura150612]

I just tested this and it's as Rob said. When you're in the Deck Manager you will still see the red block symbol, but it's actually just a visual thing. When you save the deck you will not be given the usual text warning you that you've included a banned card, and when you go to Legacy in the VS Ladder you will see your deck containing Ghetsis (any of the many prints of Ghetsis) is eligible for play. You can select it and you will actually be able to get into matches with it.

 

So, while the block symbol is still visible in the deck manager, it doesn't actually mean anything. You're allowed to use that deck.

[GrewupGeek]

 

So, while the block symbol is still visible in the deck manager, it doesn't actually mean anything. You're allowed to use that deck.

 

Okay, I tried it, and I got your point.  But the duel part, I think the problem for me there is that sometimes my opponents tend to get too randomly, even between formats.  Like for example, when I duel in the standard format, there are times when I'll be dueling somebody using a legacy format, or vice versa.

[Sakura150612]

Okay, I tried it, and I got your point.  But the duel part, I think the problem for me there is that sometimes my opponents tend to get too randomly, even between formats.  Like for example, when I duel in the standard format, there are times when I'll be dueling somebody using a legacy format, or vice versa.

Did you make sure that you had the correct format selected? There really should be no way for Legacy cards (excluding cards that have had reprints such as Copycat and Judge) to ever be used in Standard.

 

A lot of people get this confusion between Standard and Expanded because all of the Standard decks are also valid for Expanded, so sometimes they forget to change the format and play under the impression that they were in a different format. Although, I've never heard of the same thing happening in Legacy since the only part where Legacy and Standard overlap is in the BW Era sets.

 

Anyways, I'm thinking that you're either looking at reprinted Legacy cards being used in Standard, or you simply forgot to change the format.

[GrewupGeek]

No, if I'm using a Standard deck, and if I see cards that look like they are from the HGSS era, then either the selection in duel opponents are too random, or if there is something in the options list I keep missing.

[Sakura150612]

Which cards specifically are you seeing? It would help to know.

[GrewupGeek]

Let me put it to you this way, if I'm using a legacy deck, and I see somebody using a GX card, then I'm dueling somebody with a different format.  With Standard, or Extended, if I see somebody using Ghetsis, thanks to the new ban list, then I know I'm dueling somebody with a legacy deck.  Problem with the Extended format, since it's literally in the middle between Standard and Legacy, wondering if there are times when the game itself has trouble telling the three apart.

[Sakura150612]

It really shouldn't have trouble though. I've never seen a card being used in a format it doesn't belong to. Are you absolutely certain that you saw a GX card while playing Legacy? Are you certain that you were in fact playing in the Legacy format, and not in Expanded while using a deck that was valid for both Expanded and Legacy?

 

Also, we ARE talking about VS Ladder games right? Because private matches are all Unlimited format. Asking this just to double check.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Sakura150612

[GrewupGeek]

I'm sure I was using a legacy deck, since the cards I use are from Gen IV, when I seen somebody using a GX card, and it was in Vs.  It is always so random, usually whenever the game goes through an overhaul, and there are bugs messing things up.  Just like when I play in the Standard format, and I see somebody using a Team Plasma card.

[RobRatt]

I'm sure I was using a legacy deck, since the cards I use are from Gen IV, when I seen somebody using a GX card, and it was in Vs.  It is always so random, usually whenever the game goes through an overhaul, and there are bugs messing things up.  Just like when I play in the Standard format, and I see somebody using a Team Plasma card.

^^ This simply isn't happening. ...not on the VS Ladder.  If we play personal games (one-on-one matches), anything is possible, because the cards are Unlimited.  There's no way anyone is seeing GX cards when playing Legacy on the Ladder.  Nor is anyone seeing Black & White era cards when playing in Standard format.  There's definitely some confusion here, but I'll wager a Tapu Lele-GX it's not the game.  Prove me wrong, with a game log, and it's yours.

 

Sorry for the abruptness, but it's impossible to even select the "wrong" decks when playing in Events or the VS Ladder.

Edited December 18, 2018 by RobRatt

[GrewupGeek]

Just like it's impossible for cards with abilities to not work no matter what?  Like the Sky Pillar Stadium card.

[RobRatt]

Just like it's impossible for cards with abilities to not work no matter what?  Like the Sky Pillar Stadium card.

There are enough real bugs in the game -- actual, verifiable, and that can be reproduced -- without creating unnecessary phantoms.  That only hurts us all.  There's plenty for the Devs to fix, but this isn't one of them, eh?  Bugs such as this don't just happen to one player.

 

I've got over 1,000 decks built, and have played in every format, through multiple updates and overhauls, and have yet to see anything similar to what is being claimed.  When playing on the Ladder or Events, if any one card doesn't fit the chosen Format, that deck simply does NOT appear as an option.  There's not much else that can be said.

Edited December 18, 2018 by RobRatt

[GrewupGeek]

Except, just because it's not happening to you, doesn't mean it's not happening to somebody else.  Just because you didn't see it happen in front of your own eyes does not mean it's not happening.  Chances are, they get reported to the techs, yet like a lot of things, there is no guarantee that somebody is doing something about it right now.

[RobRatt]

Sometimes you just have to know when to put your marbles back in your pocket, and go home.

[Chasista]

I can wager another Lele-GX there's some confusion here, and not a bug.

 

Sometimes checking all the cards of a format or the other is not the easier. And most of the times we miss something like a card in bench doing or preventing something, or we just don't read the text of a card. Or misunderstand it.

 

 

No, if I'm using a Standard deck, and if I see cards that look like they are from the HGSS era, then either the selection in duel opponents are too random, or if there is something in the options list I keep missing.

 

 

If you're in Standard or Expanded, you can see Judge (Unleashed 78) in play, just because the card has been reprinted (BkP, FLi and LoT) hence you can play the copy you want as it's the same card with a different looking. Same can happen playing Legacy, you can see the Full art Judje LoT 209 in play, and this looks weird sometimes and can be confusing.

 

You can play a Standard deck in Expanded, and see there HGSS era reprinted cards. And you saw Ghetsis in Legacy. As easy as this.

 

But you cannot see decks with banned cards for the format or cards from other formats that have not been reprinted. You cannot see a GX in Legacy, or Legend cards in Standard. You wouldn't be allowed to choose the deck. Maybe Unlimited format was selected.

 

If this would be happening, there would be a ton of threads and Official advertisement about it. However, what you MUST do is send the Game logs to Support. As convinced we are there's no such bug and you are there is, we cannot find a reason and you didn't provide reliable proofs about it. Bugs are not solved here in forums nor Mods will look for the issue, they only answer pre-constructed sentences. So don't fight us, we won't fight you. There's nothing else can be done here. Use the proper communication channels: http://www.pokemon.com/support

[Sakura150612]

I'll join the trend  and wager another Tapu Lele-GX that this isn't happening either. Like Rob said, save a game log of when you think you've seen a card in the wrong format and post it here. Without a log it's impossible to tell what happened; there's too many scenarios where you could come to think something is wrong when in reality something different happened.

[GrewupGeek]

be careful what you wish for, you just might get it

 

Sometimes you just have to know when to put your marbles back in your pocket, and go home.

Saying goes double for you, since nobody won in  any kind of way, while I'm still digging up my proof, you have done nothing to disprove me.

 

 

I can wager another Lele-GX there's some confusion here, and not a bug.

 

Sometimes checking all the cards of a format or the other is not the easier. And most of the times we miss something like a card in bench doing or preventing something, or we just don't read the text of a card. Or misunderstand it.

 

 

If you're in Standard or Expanded, you can see Judge (Unleashed 78) in play, just because the card has been reprinted (BkP, FLi and LoT) hence you can play the copy you want as it's the same card with a different looking. Same can happen playing Legacy, you can see the Full art Judje LoT 209 in play, and this looks weird sometimes and can be confusing.

 

 

 

I know what I saw and try to talk me down all you want, won't surprise me any if it starts to happen to you at any moment now.

[GrewupGeek]

Well, I'll see what I can do, but then again, even if the proof is present, would you really believe it?

[Sakura150612]

If you manage to save a log with a card being used in a format it isn't valid in there should be no question about it. However, you absolutely must make sure that you ARE playing in said format. 

 

Ideally, include in your own deck (and use) cards that are exclusive to that format to show that you are in fact playing in the format you claim to be playing in. So, for example, go play Legacy and use HGSS exclusive cards like Junk Arms (or any HGSS card really). If we see on the very same log you using an HGSS card and your opponent using a GX card, then there's something wrong in fact.

 

Now, even if you do save a log, if it's impossible for anyone to reproduce the would-be bug, then it might be a bit hard to believe... So I'll say that if the offending card cannot be used by anyone else outside of their valid formats, I'm not too sure I'd believe you.

[GrewupGeek]

 

 

Now, even if you do save a log, if it's impossible for anyone to reproduce the would-be bug, then it might be a bit hard to believe... So I'll say that if the offending card cannot be used by anyone else outside of their valid formats, I'm not too sure I'd believe you.

 

My point exactly

[Sakura150612]

My point exactly

I mean, how else could it be? If no one who attempts to recreate the would-be bug succeeds, then a number of other things could have happened instead.

 

I don't think this is unreasonable to ask either. As far back as I can remember, most (if not all) of the previous bug reports that have been legit have been reproducible. Even the strangest, even impossible looking bugs can be reproduced if the exact same conditions registered in the log are created again. If what's shown in your log cannot be reproduced, that can only mean that the mistake is on your end.

 

But lets leave theory-crafting aside for a little. How about you begin by actually posting a log? There's no point in continuing this discussion if you cannot do that much.

[GrewupGeek]

Well, I'll post it when it happens, but like you said, even if i did exactly as you told me, there is no guarantee you would believe it, even when it turns out to be real.

[RobRatt]

You have NOT seen Ghetsis played in the Expanded format, either in the VS Ladder or Events.

 

You have NOT seen GX cards played in the Legacy format.

 

You have NOT seen Black & White cards (Team Plasma) played in the Standard format.

 

Just STOP already.  This is getting ridiculous.

 

You seem like a very nice guy.  But this pattern of digging in deeper, rather than simply saying, "oops, my bad, sorry" is frustrating for you and us.

Edited December 18, 2018 by RobRatt