Jump to content

Looking for a Standard T1 Deck to Use


M_Red_DragonO1

Recommended Posts

ahoodedman

This is at the top its hot, It must be full of good people giving harmless information about the topic! Oh wait its hot cuz there is a pointless flame war, lets end it right now. Decks have good and bad match ups and do not always win. WOW that was so easy I did not need to convert this harmless post about asking for help with decks, into a flame war!

 

Really this post said [in a nutshell] "name me some top decks to try out", not to go fight over a deck. This really needs to stop, its getting nobody no were.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 78
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • samuraison

    15

  • Millard4

    15

  • Sakura150612

    14

  • M_Red_DragonO1

    12

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

SO my T1 M Mewtwo Y/Garbodor Deck ran out of gas and just kept losing, even to **** decks. So i am wondering of what other standard T1 decks that are out there that wins games like mine used to? Bad e

Sigh... I'm gonna go away but don't get the wrong idea. You just don't want to listen to legit advice so there is no point in staying here. Good luck finding any help with that attitude, you'll need i

Just came back real quick after finding this gem:   "Strong Pokémon. Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites. I lik

Over 80 matches (40 trevenant, 40 lucario-ex)

 

Trev faced yveltal 10 times to lucario-ex 3 times.

Trev faced night march 7 times to lucario-ex 3 times

Trev faced volcanion 3 times to lucario-ex 1 times.

Trev faced trevenant 3 times to lucario-ex 1 times.

Trev faced greninja 2 times to lucario-ex 0 times.

 

Lucario-ex faced xerneas 3 times to Trev 0 times.

Lucario-ex faced garchomp 3 times to Trev 1 times.

Lucario-ex faced zyguarde 3 times to Trev 1 times.

Lucario-ex faced jolteon, keldeo, siesmitoad, vespiqueen 2 times to Trev 0 times.

Lucario-ex faced mewtwo, rayquaza 2 times to Trev 1 times.

 

Both faced manectric twice. All other matches were decks faced once only by each deck.

 

Where is the flame war, all I see is people having a discussion about facts and opinions in a mature fashion. I really don't see where the flames are.

Edited by Millard4
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sakura150612

This is at the top its hot, It must be full of good people giving harmless information about the topic! Oh wait its hot cuz there is a pointless flame war, lets end it right now. Decks have good and bad match ups and do not always win. WOW that was so easy I did not need to convert this harmless post about asking for help with decks, into a flame war!

 

Really this post said [in a nutshell] "name me some top decks to try out", not to go fight over a deck. This really needs to stop, its getting nobody no were.

If there was any kind of flaming before it's pretty much gone now :P we're just gathering data, which is constructive for the discussion.

 

Welp, I'll make myself scarse for now since I'll be celebrating new years with my family. Cheers guys, have a happy new year :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

So here's today's report from next 40 matches

 

Trevenant 20 matches

Most frequent opponent - Yveltal, greninja, xerneas, mewtwo, keldeo (2x each)

 

Lucario-ex

Most frequent opponent - night march (x4), garchomp, toad, greninja (2x each)

 

Prizes won

Match 1, win 1 - 55 coins

Match 3, win 2 - 55 coins

Match 5, win 3 - 1 pack (breakthrough)

Match 7, win 4 - 55 coins

Match 9, win 5 - ticket x2

Match 10, win 6 - 55 coins

Match 11, win 7 - 55 coins

Match 17, win 9 - ticket x1

Match 22, win 14 - ticket x1

After 40 matches and 20 wins one prize still unclaimed

 

 

Top 4 opponent decks after 60 matches with each deck

 

Trevenant

Yveltal/darkrai - 12 times (Lucario-ex - 4 times)

Night march - 9 times (Lucario-ex - 7 times)

Volcanion - 4 times (Lucario-ex - 1 times)

Greninja - 4 times (Lucario-ex - 2 times)

 

Lucario-ex

Night march - 7 times (trevenant - 9 times)

Garchomp - 5 times (trevenant - 1 times)

Siesmitoad - 4 times (trevenant - 0 times)

Yveltal/darkrai - 4 times (trevenant - 12 times)

 

After 60 matches the trend I was talking about appears to be visable, trevenant has faced yveltal 12 times yet lucario-ex has only faced it four times. On the flip side any regular lucario-ex player would tell you garchomp and siesmitoad are two decks that counter lucario-ex very well and between them lucario-ex has come up against them 9 times compared to trevenant only once. (I run lucario-ex with incomplete machamp lines and rare candy, items are vital, we all know what garchomp can do to ex decks).

 

From my personal experience of playing the game the last few months this goes some way to confirming what I feel happens during matchmaking. There seems to be certain decks your face far more often depending on which deck you play. The phenomenon first came to my attention when I had a discussion with another player regarding the number of mewtwo decks I came up against prior to the rotation, he ran various other decks but said he very rarely faced mewtwo. There must be a reason for the difference, of course many of you will say coincidence but alas I will keep tracking the data and release what I find at certain milestones. If you don't want to believe there is a trend then I'm fine with that, this is just about seeing for myself and anyone else who is interested in finding out, im in no way trying to start flame wars lol.

Edited by Millard4
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sakura150612

I think that the real problem here is that you're interpreting your data in a biased manner. Based on your data, it seems that your matchups are as follows:

Trevenant:

  • 51.6% Others
  • 20% Yveltal EX
  • 15% Night March
  • 6.7% Volcanion
  • 6.7% Greninja

Lucario EX:

  • 66.6% Others
  • 11.7% Night March
  • 8.3% Garchomp
  • 6.7% Yveltal EX
  • 6.7% Toad

This means that the vast majority of your matchups for both your Trevenant and Lucario EX decks consist of a mix of varied decks. The difference in the number of Night March decks you encountered is minimal, and the point you're actually trying to make (Yveltal EX is more common when you're playing Trevenant, which it counters) could be more easily explained by sheer coincidence.

The data you have gathered is valid, but as you can see the only visible anomaly is the difference in Yveltal EX games and it's not even that large of a difference. Of course a 13 percent difference is significant, but because Yveltal EX is a popular deck it could (still) be explained as a coincidence thus far.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm being unreasonable but you really do need a larger data pool. I'm convinced that that difference in percent will tend to an average over the long run.

Edited by Sakura150612
Link to post
Share on other sites

I intend to keep going, my point isn't that the game is heavily biased against you, the point I'm raising is you tend to see more of some decks than others when you switch the deck you use. Again I will say from the several months I have been playing this is something I noticed almost immediately and I'm just as convinced now as I ever have been. I tend to play only one deck for weeks on end and when I switch I start to see a change in the decks I come up against. Take garchomp for example, I've played trevenant for the past three weeks and only seen it a handful of time ( 2 or 3 maybe) yet I switch to lucario-ex (a deck I played for months) and all of a sudden I'm seeing more garchomp again, more toad again etc. When you play often enough and as many matches as I do you notice these things far more than someone who just play a few rounds a day.

 

Of course it may all be coincidence but I believe I see a trend. Even if I do see one in my data it doesn't mean other people see the same, after all I got two shaymin ex from uncommon chests in the space of three months yet other people will never drop one, everyones experience is different.

Edited by Millard4
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sakura150612

I just gathered the bare minimum of data for 1 deck. I've been playing a bit in Standard with an Ampharos deck (the one with Shocking Light), and this is my data for 30 games:

 

 

Apharos (STANDARD):
1) Dark/Tina
2) M Mewtwo Y
3) Volcanion EX
4) Plume Box
5) Primal Kyogre
6) M Gardevoir STS
7) M Gardevoir STS
8) M Gardevoir STS
9) Yveltal EX / Garbador
10) M Glalie
11) M Mewtwo Y
12) M Scizor
13) Dark/Tina
14) Vileplume/Tina
15) Volcanion EX
16) Yanmega
17) Full Retaliation Gyarados
18) M Ampharos
19) Giratina/Garbodor
20) Vespiqueen/Zebriska
21) Xerneas BREAK
22) Volcanion EX
23) M Mewtwo Y
24) Zoroark BREAK / Talonflame
25) M Mewtwo Y
26) Zoroark BREAK / Talonflame
27) Volcanion EX
28) Typhlosion
29) M Venusaur EX / Nurture and Heal Sceptile
30) Dark/Tina

 

So the distribution is as follows:

  1. M Mewtwo Y: 4 games [13.3%]
  2. Volcanion EX: 4 games [13.3%]
  3. M Gardevoir STS: 3 games [10%]
  4. Dark/Tina: 3 games [10%]
  5. Others: 16 games [53.4%]

In many ways this shows more than less the same I see in your data: about half of the games you'll ever face are a mix of the 3-5 most popular decks at the time and the other half is a mix of other known archetypes (and the occasional rouge deck).

 

I do not have any other Standard deck where I've completed at least 30 matches since I started recording, but I intend to do Rainbow Force next and then grow the data for both of these (and then maybe do some expanded stuff).

 

So far I honestly cannot see a bad pattern where the game seems to match me more often with counters. I can definitely see a pattern but it's something much simpler than the game consistently giving me bad matchups for no real reason: the flavor-of-the-month decks take up 50% of the games in varying proportions and the rest of them are a ton of other decks [which are a lot of different decks; I'd like to take this opportunity to throw a jab at a certain fool who said Standard was lame because he only saw the same deck over and over again; for that guy's information, I played 30 matches and saw 18 different decks, with only the top 4 most popular ones having some repetition].

 

I'm still skeptical to this whole idea that the game would give you bad matchups on purpose. I would be willing to believe it if there was an overwhelmingly large data pool that showed exactly that, but otherwise it doesn't make much sense. The simplest answer is not always the right one but a lot of times it is, and for a quantity of games numbering in the double or early triple digits it's a lot easier to explain the variation between one deck and another through sheer coincidence than intentionality on someone's part. The reason for this is that if it's intentional then there has to be a reason behind it, and I just completely fail to see what reason there could possible be behind such a questionable decision.

 

Looking at my own data I don't seem to get too many bad matchups but that's because none of the favorite decks hard-counter my deck. Looking at yours it's only expectable that the Yveltal-EX games would stand out as being a terrible matchup, but since it is popular right now (and specially since a lot of people have picked it up because it hard-counters the infamous Trevenant deck) that seems pretty normal to me.

 

Of course your concern isn't so much that you face a lot of Yveltal but that the number of Yveltal decks seem to increase when you play Trevenant. Your data does indeed show that but the difference is not that significant relative to the size of your data pool. The difference between 13% and 20% is more significant the more data you have and less significant the less data you have, and you would expect that gap to close the more data you gather.

 

I'm interested in seeing where this goes but I remain very skeptical of the theory that the game gives you bad matchups more often than a true random selection of your opponent should.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SandaledOtter

I'd like to say, when I play late morning into early evening my time (call it just about the second half of the day if the day starts with the daily login bonus, shifted about an hour later), I face mostly decks that beat me and hard.

 

I get better variety, both decks that are trying to catch the meta and some that make for good matches, at night and into early morning.

 

I'm only playing standard, and my Trev Break deck is probably weak. I tried to improve it, and the point where I added Ultra Balls and Lugias is the point it fell apart, but that was in the rough hours. When I start hitting those decks, I have to walk away.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Todays results

 

40 matches

 

20 Trevenant matches

Most frequent opponent - Yveltal, Mewtwo, Night march, Xerneas (2 times each)

 

20 Lucario matches

Most frequent opponent - Mewtwo, Sceptile (3 times each)

 

 

 

Top five most frequent opponent after 80 matches with each deck

 

Trevenant

Yveltal/darlrai - 14 times (Lucario - 5 times)

Night March - 10 times (Lucario - 10 times)

Volcanion - 5 times (Lucario - 3 times)

Xerneas/Gardevoir - 5 times (Lucarto - 4 times)

Mewtwo - 5 times (Lucario - 5 times)

 

Lucario-EX

Night march - 10 times (Trev - 10 times)

Yveltal/darkrai - 5 times (Trev - 14 times)

Garchomp - 5 times (Trev - 1 times)

Mewtwo - 5 times (Trev - 5 times)

Siesmitoad - 4 times (Trev - 0 times)

 

 

Prizes

Match 1, win 1 - 55 coins

Match 3, win 2 - 55 coins

Match 8, win 4 - 55 coins

Match 9, win 5 - 55 coins

Match 11, win 6 - 55 coins

Match 19, win 8 - 1x Ticket

Match 21, win 9 - 1x Ticket

Match 23, win 11 - 55 coins

Match 27, win 13 - 55 coins

After 40 matches and 21 wins one prize remains unclaimed

Edited by Millard4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to play exclusively with lucario-ex deck (several months) and would come up against mewtwo decks frequently (instant loss). My win rate was about 75% overall with most loses coming from mewtwo. Since moving onto a trevenant break deck I find I no longer see my old friend mewtwo any where near as often and all of a sudden it seems that yveltal is my new best friend. I think I've played against mewtwo about twice in the last two months since switching decks.

This could be a coincidence but to suddenly go from being matched frequently against one nemesis deck to another at the exact time I switched decks is suspicious. I rarely played yveltal previously and now it's the opposite, all yveltal and hardly any mewtwo. My win rate hasn't changed that much (down to about 70 with trevenant) so why has these matchmaking suddenly switched to pairing me against a deck that I'm almost guaranteed to lose against.

Don't get me wrong I'm not salty about this but if you play often enough you will see the trends that suggest the match making is throwing you lemons.

Another thing that annoys me and I noticed this a lot with lucario-ex in particular is taking Mulligan's. I hardly ever needed to take a Mulligan's yet when I came up against a deck that would reshuffle multiple times my deck would almost always require reshuffling to. I'm talking about a deck like typhlosion that would reshuffle 7 or 8 times and mysteriously my deck couldn't pick a basic either for at least 5 or 6 reshuffles yet in almost every other match it would hit one first time.

The match making is definitely fishy in some respects but to be honest if it needs to throw you a nemesis deck to keep your wins down then that's fine, if everyone won 100% of the time the game would cease to function, unfortunately someone must always lose.

it is not coincidence i have the same thing when i play regice glaceon (my main deck) i keep getting paired with decks that contain strong non ex basics (worst matchup for regice glaceon) and when i play yveltal garboder (secondary deck) i keep getting paired with vespiqueen raichu/zebstrika variants i think they do that on purpose
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sakura150612

it is not coincidence i have the same thing when i play regice glaceon (my main deck) i keep getting paired with decks that contain strong non ex basics (worst matchup for regice glaceon) and when i play yveltal garboder (secondary deck) i keep getting paired with vespiqueen raichu/zebstrika variants i think they do that on purpose

 

This stinks of confirmation bias--- you expect to get bad matchups so you make a mental note of all the bad ones while ignoring that at least half of your games are against random stuff. Is it really so hard to think for a little? If it's intentional, just who the heck would intend it and why? And even if that were so (which is extremely unlikely) how would they accomplish it? The AI is infamous for being rather terrible. Do you really think it's capable of something like this?

 

We don't have much data yet, but so far it shows that the vast majority of the games are against random decks. I just don't get it, there is NO reason for them to screw people over like this on purpose and the little bit of data we've gathered thus far does not show a rigged pattern, so why do people insist that the odds are stacked against them?

Link to post
Share on other sites

This stinks of confirmation bias--- you expect to get bad matchups so you make a mental note of all the bad ones while ignoring that at least half of your games are against random stuff. Is it really so hard to think for a little? If it's intentional, just who the heck would intend it and why? And even if that were so (which is extremely unlikely) how would they accomplish it? The AI is infamous for being rather terrible. Do you really think it's capable of something like this?

 

We don't have much data yet, but so far it shows that the vast majority of the games are against random decks. I just don't get it, there is NO reason for them to screw people over like this on purpose and the little bit of data we've gathered thus far does not show a rigged pattern, so why do people insist that the odds are stacked against them?

you are probibally right and it may just be that i only keep track of the bad matchups
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
samuraison

This stinks of confirmation bias--- you expect to get bad matchups so you make a mental note of all the bad ones while ignoring that at least half of your games are against random stuff. Is it really so hard to think for a little? If it's intentional, just who the heck would intend it and why? And even if that were so (which is extremely unlikely) how would they accomplish it? The AI is infamous for being rather terrible. Do you really think it's capable of something like this?

 

We don't have much data yet, but so far it shows that the vast majority of the games are against random decks. I just don't get it, there is NO reason for them to screw people over like this on purpose and the little bit of data we've gathered thus far does not show a rigged pattern, so why do people insist that the odds are stacked against them?

I feel like the best way to finally end this is to play a deck with no obvious weakness. I'm talking about Mega Ray.

 

If everyone else is correct, I should be facing lightning decks since that's what Ray is weak to but since I know no one in standard plays lightning decks, I should instead see Yveltal, Volcanion, and Mewtwo: the most popular decks.

 

I'll gather my results now and post them later. Hope I can finally end this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been playing this game trying to find a trend so much the past few days I'm top of the UK leaderboard for verses points in expanded this week lol. Wow 21 in global leaderboard, to the 20 above me, you must play an awful lot of this game lol

Edited by Millard4
Link to post
Share on other sites
samuraison

I feel like the best way to finally end this is to play a deck with no obvious weakness. I'm talking about Mega Ray.

 

If everyone else is correct, I should be facing lightning decks since that's what Ray is weak to but since I know no one in standard plays lightning decks, I should instead see Yveltal, Volcanion, and Mewtwo: the most popular decks.

 

I'll gather my results now and post them later. Hope I can finally end this.

 

Results for today (it's been 3 hours)

 

Mega Ray Deck 

 

1  My advantage   Dragonite start        Yanmega deck Loss
2  opponent adv    Ray start                  fairy deck Win (Concede)
3  opponent adv    Hoopa start              Yveltal deck Win (Concede)
4  My advantage    Ray start                Yanmega/Queen   Win (No turn concede)
5  opponent adv     Dragonite start      Volcanion deck Win (All prizes)
6  opponent adv    Swablu start           Redtwo deck Loss (Concede)
7  opponent adv     no start                 Gardevoir deck Win (No turn concede)
8  My advantage    Dragonite Start      Blastoise deck Win (1 prize)
9  My advantage    Ray Start               Volcanion deck Win (Concede)
10 opponent adv    Hoopa Start           Zygarde deck Loss 
11 opponent adv    Hoopa Start           Gardevoir deck Loss
12 opponent adv    Manaphy Start      Water Redtwo Win (Concede)
13 My advantage   Manaphy Start        Raichu deck Loss (Dead hand)
14 None                 Ray Start                MSceptile deck Win (Concede)
15 opponent adv    Ray Start               Redtwo deck Loss (Concede)
16 My advantage   Ray Start               PGroudon deck Loss (Dead hand)
17 My advantage   Swablu Start          Rainbow deck Win (Concede)
18 opponent adv    Swablu Start          Gardevoir deck  Win (Concede)
19 opponent adv    Ray Start               Gardevoir deck  Win (Concede)
20 opponent adv    Swablu Start         Water box Loss (Dead hand)
21 My advantage   Swablu Start          Volcanion deck Loss
22 My advantage   Hoopa Start           Water box Loss

 

So I fought Gardevoir the most today at 5 with MMewtwo and Volcanion at 3. 

I don't see how Gardevoir has an advantage over Mega Ray but I'll start again

tomorrow to see if anything changes. 

Edited by samuraison
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sakura150612

I just want to take a moment to point out that I love it how we effectively hijacked OPs thread xd But it was for the better, now we have retooled it into something that's actually useful. I'll probably be burning through my tickets in Legacy in the next few days, but when I'm done with that I'll continue to collect data.

Link to post
Share on other sites

]

Yea i know, but it went on a total losing streak. Bad enough that i kept losing from even noob decks that had no chance of winning. I am not sure what happen

In my opinion when you get a good streak with any deck the game gives bad hand from the beginning making it more difficult for you to win. It happens woth NM all the time. I play M Ray, M Mewtwo, Rainbow Road and Yveltals and I have noticed this over and over again.

 

So dont beat yourself because of this. This is TCG Online lol. This would not change anything in the actual real life decks. Because you would not have a run like this. If its a bad deck you will realise from the first moment but on game it sometimes helps the deck that needs it. At least to me, this is what it proved to be the case.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like the best way to finally end this is to play a deck with no obvious weakness. I'm talking about Mega Ray.

If everyone else is correct, I should be facing lightning decks since that's what Ray is weak to but since I know no one in standard plays lightning decks, I should instead see Yveltal, Volcanion, and Mewtwo: the most popular decks.

I'll gather my results now and post them later. Hope I can finally end this.

You are wrong my friend, Jolteon/Raikou/Electrode is a force out there. I would say its T1 due to its consistency and speed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Todays report including an additional 40 matches with each deck.

 

Top 10 after 120 matches

 

Trev

Yveltal/darkrai- 18 (Lucario-ex -7)

Night march - 13  (Lucario-ex - 14)

Volcanion ex - 8 (Lucario-ex - 6)

Trevenant - 7 (Lucario-ex - 9)

Greninja - 6 (Lucario-ex - 4)

Keldeo - 6 (Lucario-ex - 2)

Mewtwo - 6 (Lucario-ex - 7)

Xerneas/garevoir - 5 (Lucario-ex - 4)

Zyguarde - 5 (Lucario-ex 5)

Manectric - 4 (Lucario-ex 2)

 

 

Lucario ex

Night March - 14 (Trev -13)

Trevenant - 9 (Trev - 7)

Yveltal - 7 (Trev - 14)

Mewtwo - 7 (Trev - 6)

Volcanion - 6 (Trev - 8)

Garchomp - 6 (Trev - 1)

Siesmitoad - 5 (Trev - 0)

Zyguard - 5 (Trev - 5)

Raichu - 5 (Trev - 0)

Xerneas/Gardevoir - 4 (Trev - 5)

 

 

Prizes

match 2, win 1 - 100 coins

match 3, win 2 - 25 coins

match 5, win 3 - 1 ticket

match 8, win 5 - 1 ticket

match 11, win 6 - 25 coins

match 14, win 9 - 1 pack (ancient origins)

match 16, win 10 - 2 tickets

match 19, win 11 - 1 ticket

match 22, win 13 - 50 coins

after 40 matches today and 23 wins one prize remains unclaimed  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been looking over my data and can conclude from the matches i've played why I previously stated it feels like the game throws you lemons depending on what deck you play.

 

To understand fully I need to explain that initially I played Lucario-EX exclusively before the rotation and that after the rotation I have moved to Trevenant Break.

 

From my data whilst playing as Trevenant I came up most frequently against Yveltal/Darkrai variants, this can be explained away due to the fact that it is considered a tier-1 deck and is used by a lot of players.

 

While playing as Lucario-EX, I was faced against 39 psychic decks, the majority of which (30) were made up by mewtwo, trevenant, Night march (to an extent) all of which appear in the top 4 most frequent opponent faced while playing Lucario-EX and the top 7 of trevenant. As we know Lucario-Ex is weak to psychic. In addition to this the variant of Lucario-EX I use requires rare candy and vs seekers which obviously makes it weak to the additional item lock decks such as siesmitoad.

 

In conclusion I now can understand the trends I thought I saw in the game and understand the reasons for those misconceptions. As a positive, if you want to build to win you now know which decks appear most frequently.

Edited by Millard4
  • Upvote 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
samuraison

You are wrong my friend, Jolteon/Raikou/Electrode is a force out there. I would say its T1 due to its consistency and speed.

If you read my results, I literally fought ONE (1) lightning deck and that was Raichu.

 

Besides that, once Altaria goes up, that weakness goes away.

 

I used to see electrode/Raikou but Garb destroys that deck so T1? I highly doubt that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you read my results, I literally fought ONE (1) lightning deck and that was Raichu.

Besides that, once Altaria goes up, that weakness goes away.

I used to see electrode/Raikou but Garb destroys that deck so T1? I highly doubt that.

You see jolteons are easy to set up. Even if the yveltal player gets an early ability lock on you. Which doesn't happen very often, you can still win using Jolteon. Jolteon is enogh to counter Yveltals completely. Against Rayquaza, altaria is not very common as manaphy or dragonites (as far as I am aware.). Because dragonite with unown makes Ray so much more consistent and versatile. Also the raikou deck carries 2 Parallel cities and delinquent. So it can very easily match up well with it. If you run 4 Shays than it adds to your liability too. You are more likely to have that Shaymin start which is possibly your worst start. Edited by ChimZard
Link to post
Share on other sites
samuraison

You see jolteons are easy to set up. Even if the yveltal player gets an early ability lock on you. Which doesn't happen very often, you can still win using Jolteon. Jolteon is enogh to counter Yveltals completely. Against Rayquaza, altaria is not very common as manaphy or dragonites (as far as I am aware.). Because dragonite with unown makes Ray so much more consistent and versatile. Also the raikou deck carries 2 Parallel cities and delinquent. So it can very easily match up well with it. If you run 4 Shays than it adds to your liability too. You are more likely to have that Shaymin start which is possibly your worst start.

Dude, you're trying to argue two points at once and it looks confusing right now so I'll break down both of your points.

 

1) Any deck that relies on abilities is getting rekt by Garb so there's no away any deck except water box can be tier 1. If your argument is that Electrode can be set turn 2, then we can also say Garb can be set up turn 2 because that would be ideal conditions. Since Electrode needs his ability to accelerate, then the deck falls apart with Garb set up.

 

2) Pokemon ranger is a thing so Jolteon just can't end the game immediately. If you're saying that because that electric deck can beat one (1) top tier deck it must be top tier, then Zygarde must be top tier too since they run carbink.

 

3) You always can't go for the ideal situation when looking at how good a deck is otherwise plume box is a broken deck. It locks items and runs Jolteon or Glaceon.

 

Just saying...

  • Downvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude, you're trying to argue two points at once and it looks confusing right now so I'll break down both of your points.

1) Any deck that relies on abilities is getting rekt by Garb so there's no away any deck except water box can be tier 1. If your argument is that Electrode can be set turn 2, then we can also say Garb can be set up turn 2 because that would be ideal conditions. Since Electrode needs his ability to accelerate, then the deck falls apart with Garb set up.

2) Pokemon ranger is a thing so Jolteon just can't end the game immediately. If you're saying that because that electric deck can beat one (1) top tier deck it must be top tier, then Zygarde must be top tier too since they run carbink.

3) You always can't go for the ideal situation when looking at how good a deck is otherwise plume box is a broken deck. It locks items and runs Jolteon or Glaceon.

Just saying...

Lol it was simple points after you complicated it. But anyway Jolteons can counter Yveltals. That deck can have up to 2 Rangers and Even then Raikou or jolteon have the advantages. If you didnt know max elixirs is also a thing. You can easily accelerate with them without electrode. So Garbodor doesnt really do that much damage. I run raichu to damage every EXs. So even if Jolteon gets rangered you can always set up a back up. I have played against so many Yveltals and not one used ranger but lets say they do run 1 or 2 rangers. They cant carry on unless they have another set up quickly.

 

It is more consistent than Zygarde by far, so that was not a good example to say that. It is fast, you can even set up without electrodes. It is good against Ray, Rainbow road (Jolteon), Yveltals, Volcanions. The reason is because it is very consistent. You are easily able to take advantage of jolteons. It might not be tier 1 but it certainly plays well against most decks.

Edited by ChimZard
Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...