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Viridian33

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What are the odds of that? 1/10. Not particularly low. The odds of landing on the same space n times is actually very easy to calculate. It doesn't get hard until you want to know the probability of landing on x spaces over n spins. The probabilities of the same space are 100%, 10%, 1%, 0.1%, etc. Basically, 100% times ten to the power of negative n plus one. But if you want to know the universal formula... Maybe I should work on that. I'll get back to you.

Edit- the formula gets censored. Typical.

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What are the odds of that? 1/10. Not particularly low. The odds of landing on the same space n times is actually very easy to calculate. It doesn't get hard until you want to know the probability of landing on x spaces over n spins. The probabilities of the same space are 100%, 10%, 1%, 0.1%, etc. Basically, 100% times ten to the power of negative n plus one. But if you want to know the universal formula... Maybe I should work on that. I'll get back to you.

 

Edit- the formula gets censored. Typical.

.

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I don't care about the odds. My point is that it is a disrespectful way of rewarding players.

Well, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it.  It is not my opinion, and it is obviously not TPCI's opinion.  But you are most certainly entitled to yours.   However, when you demand a change without addressing the realtistics, you undermine your authenticity.

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Since when did your personal luck become a new game feature?

 

I am sorry to ask this, but what do the devs have to do to make you feel better? Make a new RNG system for you?

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I don't care about the odds. My point is that it is a disrespectful way of rewarding players.

Ahh, here we go again. Look, I don't want to sound mean, but the fastest way to discredit yourself when making a suggestion in these forums is to label whatever mechanic you happen to dilslike as "disrespectful". We've had far too many people already throwing that term when it doesn't really apply, so whenever we see someone do it we just all instantky think "welp, it's another one of these guys. Nothing to see here, move along".

 

I could say several things about why the rewards wheel system is not disrespectful, but I'll start by what's probably the most cynical (yet true) reason: effort does not always translate to reward. You say that it's disrespectful to win but earn essentially nothing other than your 10/15 points. Ok, fair enough, but what do you tell me of the other player? If he also tried hus best and you just barely managed to pull a win, why does your opponent earn nothing (the losers wheel doesn't even count as a consolation prize)? Didn't he put just as much work in as you, if not more (assuming you clearly win thanks to good RNG), and yet he goes completely unrewarded? You at least get to roll the winners wheel for a decent chance of earning big AND you get 10 points guaranteed. You may tell me, "but Sakura, the guy lost, he deserves nothin' right?", but the thing is that the core of your argument, even if you don't realize it, is that unrewarded effort is disrespectful. And that's not entirely wrong, but sadly for you (and probably for the rest of humanity as well) the powers that be have decided that life is unfair. You will not always be rewarded when you deserve it and people who do not deserve any reward are rewarded anyways.

 

On top of this mere matter of life, there is also the fact that the wheel changes (the wheel used to be more than less what you're asking for but got changed to this early in this year) was a well meditated decision and one that I personally agree with. I do think there is one detail that they missed big time, but it wasn't a problem of the wheel.

 

To elaborate: the current wheel is an anti-grinding mechanic. The rewards of the outer wheel are better than the rewards in the old winner's wheel, so collecting a box is more rewarding than the old winners wheel. However, for each box you collect within 24 hours your chances of collecting a box again drops by 10%, until it becomes 0%. Not only does this mean that there's no point in continuing to play in the same day after all 10 boxes are claimed, but each time you win your next win is statistically less rewarding. So, most people will stop playing versus after collecting half of the boxes.

 

It may seem strange to you that the devs would encourage us to "play their game less", but it really is better for us. This way, by playing less time you gain more rewards and you can freely go play tournaments and friend matches without being worried about VS rewards. Of course, they could also guarantee that each victory is a box, capped at 10 per day. But for a lot of people 10 wins is more than they can win in a single day (due to either/both inexperience and time constrains), and in a sense, it's also unfair to encourage them to win until all boxes are cleared. Thus, as things stand now you can win 3-5 boxes, call it a day and leave happily.

 

The thing I think should have been adjusted in parallel to the wheel changes is the # of points required to clear the ladder, the reason being that a 2000 points ladder has the opposite effect as the wheel changes. If you want that FA Supporrer, you have to grind. Someone absurdly efficient could manage to play every day for an hour, clear half of the boxes and be done with the ladder within 21 days, but most people can't do this. For this reason, I think that the current wheel is good but needs to be accompanied by a decrease in the ladder points. I can't just throw a random number because what's comfortable for me could be either above or below the average, but if the devs could calculate the number of points the average player gets in each cycle and adjust the points accordingly that'd be fantastic.

 

And for these reasons I believe the wheel is fine and should not change radically (maybe only tweaked if any particular scenario calls for a change in the future)..

 

There is one more thing I'd like to show you but I need to dig up some old threads, so I'll brb.

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Everyone wants so much free stuff these days.

 

If you think the devs are wasting your time, imagine how the loser feels...

 

I'll be rude about it: Free stuff is free and you can't always get what you want.

 

The wheel is fine as is. Let's try not to break something that works fine.

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Ok I found it. Take a good look at this: http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/39857-new-prize-wheel-is-terrible/

 

THIS is what happens when we stop trying to give real arguments and start giving negative lables to things we dislike without a real argument. The original post had nothing wrong, it was just a guy who didn't like the new wheel saying his opinion without saying anything inflamatory. But look at what happened afterwards. The negativity really picked up by page 4 and by page 8 all heck broke loose. It started with a simple exchange of opiniobs, then switched to people saying this thing or another is bad/stupod/unfair/disrespectful/what-have-you, and at the end of the thread's life it had degenerated into a petty exchange of personal attacks.

 

Not saying this thread is heading in the same way; for starters, it probably won't get much attention becauae it's not a hot topic anymore, and for another, I'm not willing to contribute to creating such madness once more. But take this as an example and a frienly warning that the logical conclusion of forgoing real argumentation and simply branding what you dislike as disrespectful or any other negative qualifier is the cringefest that you see in this thread.

 

So, if you dislike the wheel, fair enough, but word your opinion in the form of constructive critizism.

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I agree with OP though. Its a bad time sink mechanic and since its already limited to 10 rewards a day why should u arbitrarily have to grind x10 longer on some days when the RNG is being bad. Some days I can get down to 3 rewards (what i consider complete enough) in less than an hour and other days it can take 3-4+ hrs. Arbitrary WASTE of my time. Disagree all you like but theres such a thing as too much RNG in game design and its imo superfluous here.

 

You should just get prizes for the first 10 wins each day not be forced to deal with the wheel. This design just hurts the casuals (not me, I dont need the rewards) who progress with slower deck/matches. Meh, just my 2 cents. At least turn the reward RNG into an interactive minigame or something instead of this bland wheel that doesnt want any of the users input. 

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.

 

You should just get prizes for the first 10 wins each day not be forced to deal with the wheel. This design just hurts the casuals (not me, I dont need the rewards) who progress with slower deck/matches. Meh, just my 2 cents. At least turn the reward RNG into an interactive minigame or something instead of this bland wheel that doesnt want any of the users input.

 

Or they could just take the wheel away like it used to be when I first played. At one point, it was exactly like you guys wanted it and you always won a prize. Guess what happened?

 

" I got too much coins and tickets and nothing to do with them" posts.

 

They nerfed the prizes hard ( still miss that 375 coin prize) and now we have the current wheel.

 

Trust me, there isn't that much to buy with the tickets and coins. No need to have 5000+ of each.

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Or they could just take the wheel away like it used to be when I first played. At one point, it was exactly like you guys wanted it and you always won a prize. Guess what happened?

 

" I got too much coins and tickets and nothing to do with them" posts.

 

They nerfed the prizes hard ( still miss that 375 coin prize) and now we have the current wheel.

 

Trust me, there isn't that much to buy with the tickets and coins. No need to have 5000+ of each.

 

 

Yeah but so what? Practically every change ever has caused a whine post to manifest on here so that's nothing special. Does that mean every one of those changes was bad because some people made posts? You say there isn't much to do with tickets and coins... I completely AGREE, they are definitely more of a luxury than a necessity at a certain point (currently i have 200 tickets im sitting on), so then why does it matter if we let casuals get INTO the game and let them get some of these paltry daily prizes (10 wins for 100-200 coins and a few tickets is plenty fair and difficult for a noob to do). Its smart business (a whole other topic should be had about this). If you can't do much with these prizes anyways then why not remove this tedious mechanism because it severely drags down the enjoyment of versus to get multiple repeat spots over and over, far better ways to get what you need in the game right now. Right now it just favors people like me who can farm it quickly. The wheel incentivizes leaving early and using quick farm decks because you can spend forty minutes in a single grueling fight and get nothing or you can leave every other time and actually have a chance to clear it. The choice becomes obvious after awhile.

 

           Anyways, I was never here when apparently people were complaining about "too many prizes" so I just have to assume you aren't exaggerating. To me though, that sounds like a problem with the currency and the lack of things there are to do with it (as u say) and less about the game giving out too much. 

Have to ask though, when they gave you prizes automatically was it also limited to TEN prizes a day? I have a hard time imagining that the 100-200 coins and handful of tickets or whatever the daily average is for clearing out the wheel would qualify as "too much" for most beginner to intermediate players. At some point you will need tickets/coins less and less so yes you'll accumulate a lot of them, thats not the wheels fault, thats just natural progression in ANY game, eventually you get rich. 

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Yeah but so what? Practically every change ever has caused a whine post to manifest on here so that's nothing special. Does that mean every one of those changes was bad because some people made posts? You say there isn't much to do with tickets and coins... I completely AGREE, they are definitely more of a luxury than a necessity at a certain point (currently i have 200 tickets im sitting on), so then why does it matter if we let casuals get INTO the game and let them get some of these paltry daily prizes (10 wins for 100-200 coins and a few tickets is plenty fair and difficult for a noob to do). Its smart business. If you can't do much with these prizes anyways then why not remove this tedious mechanism because it severely drags down the enjoyment of versus to get multiple repeat spots over and over, far better ways to get what you need in the game right now. Right now it just favors people like me who can farm it quickly. The wheel incentivizes leaving early and using quick farm decks because you can spend forty minutes in a single grueling fight and get nothing or you can leave every other time and actually have a chance to clear it. The choice becomes obvious after awhile.

 

           Anyways, I was never here when apparently people were complaining about "too many prizes" so I just have to assume you aren't exaggerating. To me though, that sounds like a problem with the currency and the lack of things there are to do with it (as u say) and less about the wheel giving out too much. 

Have to ask though, when they gave you prizes automatically was it also limited to TEN prizes a day? I have a hard time imagining that the 100-200 coins and handful of tickets or whatever the daily average is for clearing out the wheel would qualify as "too much" for most beginner to intermediate players. At some point you will need them less and less so yes you'll accumulate a lot of tickets and coins. 

 

The prizes for winning used to be smaller but also guaranteed and unlimited. The winner's wheel used to be between 5 and 15 tokens IIRC (the max may have been 25 but I can't remember, and if there was a slot with 25 it was like 1 in 12) and there was a mystery box or two, which contained random stuff ranging from tickets to tokens to packs (tradelocked, same as now).

 

If you played/grinded long enough the old wheel gave better total rewards, but for the old wheel to surpass the current one you still needed to win pretty often and win a lot. This is also just a rough estimate since I don't have actual data of either the old or current wheel, but I'd say the current wheel gives more rewards overall than it did before if you win 5 or so games in a day. If you used to win 10+ games per day you would definitely would have earned more with the old wheel, but most people don't have that much time to play daily.

 

If the old wheel on average gave 15 tokens per win, after 5 wins you have 75 tokens. If the current wheel on average gives 40ish coins per win and you take into account that after collecting 3 or so boxes you have a non insignificant chance of pulling an opened box, then the average is still at 75 tokens or higher.

 

I would also like to point out that the scenario where a match lasts anywhere close to 40 minutes is extremely uncommon. That would assume that both players take about 20 of the 25 max minutes of the timer (if only one of the two players is the slowpoke then that player will inevitably lose due to timing out), and for that to happen both players would have to be either lagging like a boss or playing very slow decks such as sableye, which is also unlikely due to how fast the meta currently is. Many games end with a concede as soon as the losing player realizes that he can't do anything anymore. This is more frequent that you might think; depending on the situation, some matchups are an auto-loss and others become unwinnable if certain conditions have been met. If you're playing NM against Trev it's almost always an auto loss, if you're playing any sort of fairy deck against M Scizor it can become unwinnable early on by simply getting most of your attackers KOd without being able to retaliate. If you have an evolution reliant deck, if your opponent turn 1 Archeops you're donezo. If you run out of a necessary resource (main attacker, energies, or anything else) and you have no way of recovering them (say, you already burned all your special charges and you can't attack anymore) all that's left for you is to concede. The list goes on. Keep in mind these are just examples and they have varying frequencies, and my point is that your average match will be over in less than 10 minutes, while a long match usually goes on for no longer than 20. Even when there is no auto-loss scenario and no early concede (out of salt or otherwise) an average game will really not last much longer than 10-15 minutes.

 

The rare time I do get to play a 40min match, the rewards of the match is the least I could care about. Playing a match so hard fought all the way through the end is a reward in and of itself. I love to get some free tokens from time to time, but the reason I play is to enjoy the game, and there is no better reward than to play a tough match.

 

On the contrary, like I replied to OP, if you believe it's grueling to play for 40 minutes and earn nothing, then what does that leave for the loser? Even IF the wheel guaranteed the boxes for the winner with a cap of 10 per day, your opponent also just played a 40 minute match and yet he gets absolutely nothing to show for his effort.

 

This is just how things go. If you wish is so, you can still make a grind of the game, but the game is trying to discourage you from doing so.

 

With all of that said, I could agree to making the rewards wheel give guaranteed boxes, with a cap of 10 daily and with the same probabilities of rewards as the current boxes. I think removing the RNG element would be good since many people seem to be skeptical about it and it would leave one less place where people feel like they are being screwed over by bad luck. However, I would not suggest increasing the amount of rewards, as I think we are currently being given enough freebies to be happy with them.

 

Mind you, this is all just my opinion. I'm not trying to imply things should be done my way (I tend to come off like that, so just throwing a preemptive disclaimer).

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I do appreciate your thoughtful response. Well done. 

 

I agree with you and I was just using the forty minute match scenario as a bit of hyperbole to demonstrate a point (old habit). You sound about right on the average length of matches, can't argue there. I don't think I've had a forty minute match in a long time because as I said, I farm with quicker decks but I have had plenty of grueling battles where I felt a reward was in order and on the other hand I've had games where I hit jackpots for doing absolutely nothing. 

 

You worded it nicely with this; 

With all of that said, I could agree to making the rewards wheel give guaranteed boxes, with a cap of 10 daily and with the same probabilities of rewards as the current boxes. I think removing the RNG element would be good since many people seem to be skeptical about it and it would leave one less place where people feel like they are being screwed over by bad luck.

 

 

Articulates how I feel about it very well. When you win you don't want to have to deal with still more RNG, at least I don't. Now if you LOSE thats another story, then we can introduce some RNG and it might make sense. You won though, you should get to revel in that a little but instead the reward and some of the enjoyment of the moment is now in the hands of an RNG that myself and plenty of others don't put any stock into. I don't trust the RNG in this game, I tolerate it because you have to. It's especially tough when you're a noobling and wins are hard to come by, so each repeat spot is a bit discouraging, you just want new cards and to explore the game at that stage and instead you're being gated by the RNG. Again, I'm not arguing for more rewards I am just griping because it irritates a game design pet peeve of mine of overdoing it with the RNG. There's zero input from the user like I mentioned, you may as well not even watch the spin animation because who cares, you aren't involved in it at all, it's just not very creative imo to have it come down to this. I want to enjoy the win and not deal with another thing I can rage at. I already have plenty to direct my rage at; my bad hands, my coin flips, my packs pulls, etc. Its just too much RNG at a certain point, excessive some like me would say and again my post really boils down to critiquing game design. It's an art, it's an art to put RNG in the right places. It can enrich or detract from a game. It's akin to putting a CG scene in a movie, you don't want to have too much CG but enough that is tasteful and you want it a CG scene to stick out awkwardly or it can hurt the production. The same goes with RNG mechanics. Again, I want to reiterate that I'd be fine even with them scaling down the regular rewards or the odds of the big jackpots in exchange for play time consistency. I'll take less to be able to play less. 

 

        Consistency, it'd be nice to be able to just know you could, with some changes, be able to allocate a fairly fixed amount of time to this game each day to play and have some relative consistency with your rewards. I don't like it as it is, I want to clear the wheel, not in an OCD way but I want to chip at least seven or eight spots off currently. I currently have to devote a highly variable amount of time to doing this. It might take an hour or it might take several hours. I'd prefer to just be able to play an hour or two hours to get that much cleared (very reasonable given what my decks are right now) but I think the devs just want us to play more, more and more. 

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I'm glad you enjoyed my response :) But yes, going over it again, I think if they kept it as it is but change it so that you're guaranteed a box per win util you reach the daily cap would be a good change that most people could appreciate.

As far as RNG goes, I'm not particularly fond of it but it's for that very reason that I play a lot of Night March variants in Expanded. Between the lack of coin flip effects and the fact that it's a 40 trainer card deck with several consistency items, it makes it really uncommon for me to get such an utterly bad luck that I'll literally lose to RNG alone.

Now, I don't think that they are purposefully trying to make people play more. If nothing else, the current wheel discourages people from playing VS Ladder after obtaining about half of the boxes, because you know that you're gambling on a fifty-fifty chance or worse of winnng a box if you win the game. Of course, this would still be true if there were no RNG here and you just got your boxes with a cap of 10, and people would not have to deal with the frustration that means endless bad luck. Despite the rough times we have gone through, I believe in the good will of the PTCGO staff. They make mistakes, sometimes pretty big ones, but they do try their best and do good things as well. I would have a hard time believing that they designed this wheel specifically to force people to play more when their stated objective was the exact opposite. That would be plain out evil xd So, I'm more inclined to thinking this is a design flaw rather than intentional.

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As far as RNG goes, I'm not particularly fond of it but it's for that very reason that I play a lot of Night March variants in Expanded. Between the lack of coin flip effects and the fact that it's a 40 trainer card deck with several consistency items, it makes it really uncommon for me to get such an utterly bad luck that I'll literally lose to RNG alone.

 

 

I should clarify I dont mean my coin flips, my bad on that one, because I also don't use decks that are RNG reliant either, I wouldn't want to torture myself like that. I meant the coin flips of my usually... *ahem* "newer" opponents who usually DO use a lot of RNG cards and stall with those one energy status moves and such. When your enemy gets a ralts paralyze off several times in a row, etc, lol or triple head flip articuno tri edge. 

 

I think the only coin flip deck I have currently is a slowking deck that I need to update and haven't played in awhile. EDIT: Yes, you reminded me about lazers hammers forgot I use those too in a few decks. 

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Endosutra, on 17 Nov 2016 - 5:03 PM, said:
I should clarify I dont mean my coin flips because I also don't use decks that are RNG reliant either, I wouldn't want to torture myself like that. I meant the coin flips of my usually... *ahem* "newer" opponents who usually DO use a lot of RNG cards and stall with those one energy status moves and such. When your enemy gets a ralts paralyze off several times in a row, etc, lol or triple head flip articuno tri edge.


Oh yeah I forgot that my opponent can still use them ;-; Yeah that can be annoying too. It mostly happens in theme decks, but certain items are also popular in custom formats, such as the Hammer and Laser. It makes me so salty when my opponent gets a heads on the hammer xd but I can live with it I guess.

Idk, the RNG does weird things. Yesterday while calling the coin at the start I got like 10 heads in a row, and I just so happen to go for heads every time xd On the 11th time or so, I made the classic gambler's fallacy mistake and went for tails because I had already gotten too many heads. Nope, it was another head :/
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The prizes for winning used to be smaller but also guaranteed and unlimited. The winner's wheel used to be between 5 and 15 tokens IIRC (the max may have been 25 but I can't remember, and if there was a slot with 25 it was like 1 in 12) and there was a mystery box or two, which contained random stuff ranging from tickets to tokens to packs (tradelocked, same as now).

 

If you played/grinded long enough the old wheel gave better total rewards, but for the old wheel to surpass the current one you still needed to win pretty often and win a lot. This is also just a rough estimate since I don't have actual data of either the old or current wheel, but I'd say the current wheel gives more rewards overall than it did before if you win 5 or so games in a day. If you used to win 10+ games per day you would definitely would have earned more with the old wheel, but most people don't have that much time to play daily.

 

If the old wheel on average gave 15 tokens per win, after 5 wins you have 75 tokens. If the current wheel on average gives 40ish coins per win and you take into account that after collecting 3 or so boxes you have a non insignificant chance of pulling an opened box, then the average is still at 75 tokens or higher.

 

I would also like to point out that the scenario where a match lasts anywhere close to 40 minutes is extremely uncommon. That would assume that both players take about 20 of the 25 max minutes of the timer (if only one of the two players is the slowpoke then that player will inevitably lose due to timing out), and for that to happen both players would have to be either lagging like a boss or playing very slow decks such as sableye, which is also unlikely due to how fast the meta currently is. Many games end with a concede as soon as the losing player realizes that he can't do anything anymore. This is more frequent that you might think; depending on the situation, some matchups are an auto-loss and others become unwinnable if certain conditions have been met. If you're playing NM against Trev it's almost always an auto loss, if you're playing any sort of fairy deck against M Scizor it can become unwinnable early on by simply getting most of your attackers KOd without being able to retaliate. If you have an evolution reliant deck, if your opponent turn 1 Archeops you're donezo. If you run out of a necessary resource (main attacker, energies, or anything else) and you have no way of recovering them (say, you already burned all your special charges and you can't attack anymore) all that's left for you is to concede. The list goes on. Keep in mind these are just examples and they have varying frequencies, and my point is that your average match will be over in less than 10 minutes, while a long match usually goes on for no longer than 20. Even when there is no auto-loss scenario and no early concede (out of salt or otherwise) an average game will really not last much longer than 10-15 minutes.

 

The rare time I do get to play a 40min match, the rewards of the match is the least I could care about. Playing a match so hard fought all the way through the end is a reward in and of itself. I love to get some free tokens from time to time, but the reason I play is to enjoy the game, and there is no better reward than to play a tough match.

 

On the contrary, like I replied to OP, if you believe it's grueling to play for 40 minutes and earn nothing, then what does that leave for the loser? Even IF the wheel guaranteed the boxes for the winner with a cap of 10 per day, your opponent also just played a 40 minute match and yet he gets absolutely nothing to show for his effort.

 

This is just how things go. If you wish is so, you can still make a grind of the game, but the game is trying to discourage you from doing so.

 

With all of that said, I could agree to making the rewards wheel give guaranteed boxes, with a cap of 10 daily and with the same probabilities of rewards as the current boxes. I think removing the RNG element would be good since many people seem to be skeptical about it and it would leave one less place where people feel like they are being screwed over by bad luck. However, I would not suggest increasing the amount of rewards, as I think we are currently being given enough freebies to be happy with them.

 

Mind you, this is all just my opinion. I'm not trying to imply things should be done my way (I tend to come off like that, so just throwing a preemptive disclaimer).

Thanks for explaining it better than I could.

 

When they made the wheel, the devs said most people only play for 30 minutes to an hour so they wanted to help people grind faster hence the wheel.

 

People ended up with lots of coins since you tended to get 375 and 100 coins for winning. And now we are here.

 

I agree that they could change it but we would just get worse prizes.

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I'm glad someone is finally shining a light on the fact that any time I lose a coin flip, it is disrespectful.  Also, when I open a Roaring Skies pack and it doesn't have two Set-Up Shaymins...oh yeah, you guessed it...DISREPECTFUL.

 

Come on, devs.  I have Poke in my name.  How much more do I have to do to get some R-E-S-P-E-G-C-P-T.

 

You have 24 hours.

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I'm glad someone is finally shining a light on the fact that any time I lose a coin flip, it is disrespectful.  Also, when I open a Roaring Skies pack and it doesn't have two Set-Up Shaymins...oh yeah, you guessed it...DISREPECTFUL.

 

Come on, devs.  I have Poke in my name.  How much more do I have to do to get some R-E-S-P-E-G-C-P-T.

 

You have 24 hours.

Classic.  +1 from me.  Way to clean up the thread!

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I'm glad someone is finally shining a light on the fact that any time I lose a coin flip, it is disrespectful.  Also, when I open a Roaring Skies pack and it doesn't have two Set-Up Shaymins...oh yeah, you guessed it...DISREPECTFUL.

 

Come on, devs.  I have Poke in my name.  How much more do I have to do to get some R-E-S-P-E-G-C-P-T.

 

You have 24 hours.

 

That would indeed be funny if someone actually had said anything close to that in this thread about coin flips and pack pulls but alas no one did as far as I have read, did I miss it? If so I apologize but I feel like you were referring to my comment so I will clarify that I agree with OP on their point about the wheel being in need of a change and I articulated my own reasons as to why that is and what could be done, I don't personally feel "disrespected" by it at all or any other RNG elements in the game and I never said that anywhere in my post, I just think its bad game design to do it like this and leave it up to a poor RNG but to each his own. 

 

I appreciate your efforts to give a well thought out post and not just go for sarcasm/easy up votes. 

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I appreciate your efforts to give a well thought out post and not just go for sarcasm/easy up votes. 

I admit it.  I took the easy road on this one, but I promise it was not aimed at you.  I was centering on the disrespect comment because I think it is not reasonable to take the way a game is designed so personally, and I chose topics (pack pulls, coin flips) that were not previously stated because I did not want to diminish the thoughtful statements made about what was actually being discussed.

 

As far as a straight post goes:  I don't think game design decisions have anything to do with respect.  It's okay to want more prizes or different prizes, but the lack of them does not indicate that the devs are showing disrespect to the player base.

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That would indeed be funny if someone actually had said anything close to that in this thread about coin flips and pack pulls but alas no one did as far as I have read, did I miss it? If so I apologize but I feel like you were referring to my comment so I will clarify that I agree with OP on their point about the wheel being in need of a change and I articulated my own reasons as to why that is and what could be done, I don't personally feel "disrespected" by it at all or any other RNG elements in the game and I never said that anywhere in my post, I just think its bad game design to do it like this and leave it up to a poor RNG but to each his own. 

 

I appreciate your efforts to give a well thought out post and not just go for sarcasm/easy up votes. 

He was probably referring to this bit:

 

I don't care about the odds. My point is that it is a disrespectful way of rewarding players.

 

Pardon the unnecessary exaggeration. This thing sticks out like a sore thumb and it kinda looked like that in my head xd

 

That's the thing, it's not like OP didn't have a point to make. A lot of these complaint posts do, but they usually do such a terrible job at arguing their point and they end up discrediting themselves and no one pays attention to them. This is why people should be more careful of how they express their opinion. Not because they could offend anyone, but because if they wish to be listened to they must put their points in such a way that's easy for others (particularly the people in charge of making these changes) accept. When you say that this mechanic is disrespectful, you're directly accusing whoever designed this of being disrespectful. I can't speak for others, but to me at least, the biggest insult you could ever tell me is that I was disrespectful without a good argument as to why. I take a lot of pride in the respect I (try) to pay others, and to be told I'm being a piece ******* just for the sake of it, unless they can show me it's true (in which case I apologize), I take a lot of offense from it.

 

So please guys, I know at the core you wish to better the game and the community, but these things don't help. Make yourself be listened not by forcing your opinion like many others have done in the past, but by actually making a reasonable and well argumented presentation of your suggestion. I'm taking this opportunity to make a call to reason, for this would be the best way for our community to improve.

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I admit it.  I took the easy road on this one, but I promise it was not aimed at you.  I was centering on the disrespect comment because I think it is not reasonable to take the way a game is designed so personally, and I chose topics (pack pulls, coin flips) that were not previously stated because I did not want to diminish the thoughtful statements made about what was actually being discussed.

 

As far as a straight post goes:  I don't think game design decisions have anything to do with respect.  It's okay to want more prizes or different prizes, but the lack of them does not indicate that the devs are showing disrespect to the player base.

 

I gave you an upvote for the clarification there, for what its worth. I just wasn't sure and I thought it might be towards that quote of OPs and that you were grouping me in with him on that bit. 

 

WE COOL. WE COOL. 

 

When you say that this mechanic is disrespectful, you're directly accusing whoever designed this of being disrespectful. I can't speak for others, but to me at least, the biggest insult you could ever tell me is that I was disrespectful without a good argument as to why

 

Good point. I'm gonna change what I just posted because you're right that is unnecessary and its actually better if he just felt disrespected rather than saying it was someone elses intent. 

 

EDIT: I think its good though to not hyperfocus on trigger words though because that can derail the thread and it turns into a dogpile of people reiterating that the OP was wrong to misphrase something. I mean lets stick to looking at the merit of the topic and not the language they used, at least thats what I'm trying to do. Not get caught in reactions. 

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I agree that I'd be for the best that we focused on the topic itself and not the form that OP used, but I think it would be prudent for people to avoid said language when making future suggestions. Again, the reason not being that it's offensive, but that they themselves are setting up their own thread to be derailed. If we want to make topics stay focused we ideally need the ones making the suggestions to make themselves and their point of view be respected by expressing it in a reasonable and respectful manner. This is not just me being overly concerned with formalities (which admitedly I can be), but me caring about our legitimate suggestions being listened to instead of being dismissed as more pointless rants.

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