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I need help with consistency in my Nasty Rats deck


Polyeidus

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After enjoying the simplicity of my ZyBink deck and not enjoying the complexity of Rainbow Road (a variation of the YellowSwellow build), I've been exploring other options.

 

Right now, I'm trying to make my /Nasty Rats/ deck more consistent. The concept is pretty simple, 4 Rat ta ta (EVO 66) and 4 Raticate (EVO 67) plus a 2-2 Octillary line. If my opponent has Special Energy, that is all I evolve. If my opponent is mean and only uses normal energy, I evolve further into the Raticate BREAK (BKP 89).

 

So far, this deck against:

- EX decks with special energy - very strong

- non-EX decks with special energy - strong

- EX decks without special energy - inconsistent

- non-EX decks without special energy - weak

 

All attacks are colorless so I use Fairy Energy to take advantage of the occasional opponent Fairy Garden Stadium. I tried 4 DCE/3 Fairy, but recycling the DCEs was hit or miss so I went all Fairy. Switching my Pokemon out hasn't been an issue since they are pretty much disposable, but I do have a single Olympia if needed.

 

I had the bright idea of using a 1-1-1-1 Eevee with his Flareon/Jolteon/Vaporeon evolutions that have the Ability to make all Stage 1 Pokemon that type so Raticate could hit for weakness. It looked good on paper and I even got it into play several times, but the cost vs reward was too high. I recycled those 4 card slots into something else to work on consistency. I've tried other bright ideas also, but like this one, they were too situational and caused consistency issues beyond the ones found in the current deck list.

 

Any ideas how I can make this deck better? Although I seriously doubt it will ever be a serious meta list contender, its a fun deck to play. Maybe more fun if it was more consistent (lol).

 

Thank you!

 

 

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

 

##Pokémon - 14

 

* 2 Raticate BREAK BKP 89

* 4 Rat ta ta EVO 66

* 4 Raticate EVO 67

* 2 Remoraid BKT 32

* 2 Octillery BKT 33

 

##Trainer Cards - 39

 

* 1 Delinquent BKP 98

* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92

* 1 Brock's Grit EVO 74

* 2 Lysandre AOR 78

* 2 Professor Sycamore BKP 107

* 1 Team Flare Grunt XY 129

* 3 Crushing Hammer GEN 60

* 1 Skyla BCR 149

* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109

* 1 Teammates PRC 141

* 4 Level Ball AOR 76

* 3 N *******

* 2 Ultra Ball *** 113

* 1 Town Map BCR 136

* 4 Enhanced Hammer ******

* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109

* 1 Olympia GEN 66

 

##Energy - 7

 

* 7 Fairy Energy Energy 9

 

Total Cards - 60

 

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

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This is what I would do to your list to make it a little more consistent

 

* 2 Raticate BREAK BKP 89
* 4 Rat ta ta EVO 66
* 4 Raticate EVO 67
* 2 Remoraid BKT 32
* 2 Octillery BKT 33
add 2 spinarak

add 2 ariados [helps with damage and if you need to use breaks]

* 1 Delinquent BKP 98
* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Brock's Grit EVO 74  1 super rod
* 2 Lysandre AOR 78
* 2 Professor Sycamore BKP 107 [add 2
* 1 Team Flare Grunt XY 129
* 3 Crushing Hammer GEN 60 [add 1
* 1 Skyla BCR 149
* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
* 1 Teammates PRC 141
* 4 Level Ball AOR 76 
* 3 N ******* [take away 1
* 2 Ultra Ball *** 113
* 1 Town Map BCR 136
* 4 Enhanced Hammer ****** [take 2 away
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 1 Olympia GEN 66
add 1 special charge
add 2 float stone
* 3 grass Energy Energy 9
4 Double colorless energy

 

those are my suggestions, a few more, IF you have 1 copy of shaymin ex, use it, if you really want free retreat use 3 water and manaphy ex, other than relying on your match up, you might want to try lab as well [2 would be good]. If you need space take out the puzzles of time.

 

Oh and btw, raticate might end up being competitive it just needs the right partners, hopefully sun N moon will have some

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I appreciate your time in the review and recommendations. I have applied the recommended changes and reposted the updated deck list below. I don't have a Shaymin-EX, and no room for Manaphy. As far as being concerned with retreating my Raticates, the 60 HP, Stage 1 guys don't usually last long enough to worry about retreating. lol

 

A couple thoughts between my build and your adjustments:

- Spinark/Ariados - I was trying to figure out how to fit them in the deck.

- Crushing Hammers - I don't like the coin flip and dropped to 3 to make room for something else.

- Professor Sycamore - I love all my cards. I'm in rehab, learning to let go of N. Sycamore is growing on me.

- Super Rod - I had 2 before some changes, but thought the Brock's Grit could be reused.

- N - Covered in Sycamore.

- Enhanced Hammer - With Raticate's attack being dependent on discarded Special Energy, I thought it would be a cornerstone in this deck. My hand gets clogged with them in battles that don't have Special Energy.

- Olympia - Like Brock's Grit, I was thinking this could be a reusable switch if needed. So far, it had gone unused.

 

With all the changes applied, the card count 65 so more adjustments need to be made:

- Confirmation about the 4 Crushing/2 Enhanced hammer distribution.

- I like having 2 Float Stones, one for Octillary, the other for Ariados.

- If I remove all 4 Puzzles of Time, I'm still 1 over.

- I don't know what else to take out.

 

Ideas?

 

 

 

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

 

##Pokémon - 18

 

* 2 Raticate BREAK BKP 89

* 4 Rat ta ta EVO 66

* 4 Raticate EVO 67

* 2 Spinarak AOR 5

* 2 Ariados AOR 6

* 2 Remoraid BKT 32

* 2 Octillery BKT 33

 

##Trainer Cards - 40

 

* 1 Delinquent BKP 98

* 4 Trainers' Mail ROS 92

* 4 Crushing Hammer EPO 92

* 1 Super Rod BKT 149

* 2 Lysandre AOR 78

* 4 Professor Sycamore BKP 107

* 1 Team Flare Grunt XY 129

* 1 Special Charge STS 105

* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109

* 1 Teammates PRC 141

* 4 Level Ball AOR 76

* 2 N *******

* 2 Ultra Ball *** 113

* 1 Town Map BCR 136

* 2 Enhanced Hammer ******

* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109

* 2 Float Stone BKT 137

 

##Energy - 7

 

* 4 Double Colorless Energy *** 114

* 3 Grass Energy GEN 75

 

Total Cards - 65

 

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

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I forgot to say, I love Silent Lab and would run 4 if I could. I love being the comedian in the room and 4 labs in my ZyBink deck (even before the rotation) made me that comedian.

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This is my version of the Raticate BREAK deck, which is similar to yours but with adjustments:



*4 Carbink FC 50

- I really hate times when my opponent plays an EX Pokemon from the get-go while my active is Rat ta ta, so I make sure Carbink's Safeguard ability is into play while I set up Raticate BREAK



*4 Lysandre AOR 78

- Get the maximum 4 to snipe all the EX Pokemon, or the annoying attack-from-the-bench Pokemon like Gre ninja satisfying to Lysandre and OHKO a Croakie/Frogadier/Greninja)



*3 Shauna XY 127

- In case I need to refresh my hand due to having too many unwanted cards to get more from Octillery



*3 Judge Unleashed 78

- Same reason as Shauna, but also because I want to stall my opponent (use Judge after your opponent uses Ultra Ball to get an evolution Pokemon / after opponent uses Professor's Letter for maximum annoyance)



*2 Wally Roaring Skies 94

- You MUST have a Wally to get Raticate BREAK quicker



*4 Strong Energy Furious Fists 104

- Only for Carbink as the attacker against EX Pokemon



Contrary to popular opinion, I don't use Sycamore, simply because I don't like the idea of wasting my cards. That's the reason why I have Shauna and Judge over him.

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Speaking of this deck, I just went up against another player who also uses the Raticate BREAK deck! :0

 

It was a tough fight, and I barely won because I used Chaos Tower to prevent my own Pokemon from getting poisoned + big thanks to Carbink.

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Well, the main idea of Raticate Break + Ariados is to 1HKO any pokémon in the turn. 10HP remaining + poison to KO seems an amazing plan. 2 energies (for the Break) are not so much and all the other attacks are just 1 so could work with basic ones but the only help to accelerate energies for the deck would be Max Elixir for the Rat ta ta. And then use Energy Switch to move it around if needed. Doesn't seem the best. That's why I think DCEs are important.

I see the potential power of the Evolutions Raticate with the Special energies attack, but the point of pairing Raticate with Ariados is not poison itself and that's why the Breakpoint Raticate with the Antibodies ability use to be used. Also have 10 more HP and free retreat (what leaves the Break with free retreat also).

As for the updated list and quitting the 4 Puzzles... the 5th card would be for me Teammates. I know the power of Teammates and will come handy with the low HP rats. But then, if it's important enough and can make you set up for the incoming turn and KO back, add more than 1 (and remove another thing).

About the stadiums, would be very nice to have an own one. At least the one as Tech Parallel city to counter the MRay and Xerneas Force decks (and some Volcanion that run Sky field too). Silent lab seems also a nice idea while you don't run Hoopa nor Shaymin, and would be shutting down a lot of opponent resources (even though you would kill the own Evolutions Rat ta ta ability). 3 Labs would be perfect but seems the deck is tight enough so 2 could work (+1 Parallel) if you like the idea.

Another idea would be Max potions, keeping the Puzzle of time to recover the DCEs from discard (+ Special charge) but Raticate Break it's 110HP which it's not a lot and probably being 1HKOed and no opportunity of healing anything. I had to say anyway.

A 2-1 Carbink Break line or 2-2 could work but, same as with Octillery, and Ariados, and the Breakpoint Raticate and Evolutions Rat ta ta. Garbodor it's still the main problem as none of them would have abilities so it's actually shutting down all the plan without possibilities of removing the Garbo tool.

But introducing Carbink, or even introducing Ariados having Octillery, means spare Stage 1 evolution lines and a lot of space, that's why Shaymin EX it's "so good". If we forget Garbodor I think the best build would be Raticate Break+Ariados+Shaymin EX, no doubt for me.

If I don't depend too much on items, I always cut the Trainers' mail. I prefer to have the items itself than a thing that searches for. If you depend a lot on Spirit links, Float stones, Bursting balloons and others, worth to have. But if not... and you could keep the Puzzles. Just try taking out 1 or 2 Mail and see what happens. And talking about Ballons, leaving an opponent pokémon with 10HP and having a Bursting balloon attached... if the opponent I don't attack don't know you haha. add 3-4. This deck need Balloons, you'll see a great change!

Not sure about Wally, but why not 1-2 Evosoda could help maybe. I don't think it's the best idea ever but also a thing to try.

 

Last idea would be to add 2-3 Talonflame. Nice to start, helps to search for set up, also Colourless, free retreat, wont make the game but different weakness (resistance to Fight = Rats weakness) and 1 energy = 40 damage... great!


Talking a bit in general... Shauna just is a "bad supporter" (she's not bad but it's not one of the best of the game, don't want nobody angry). When you have a hand full of cards that you can't use and you recycle your hand with 5 new cards and 3 are repeated (not saying the same, but in a consistent deck, there are some copies of every card so this happens), your chances to go on are small. There's nothing more powerful than a new 7 cards hand. That's why there are 4 Sycamore in every tier 1 deck. And then you add Super Rod, VS Seeker and other cards to recover/re-use what is in discard. It's faster and makes the deck stronger. When I started playing I played the same, not understanding why people throw away so much nice cards with Sycamore and played with Shauna. But even Prof Birch is better as draws 5'5 cards, (now 4, now 7). Sometimes 1 card makes the difference, I know, but actually 4 to 5 it's not a big change. On the other side 5 to 7 it's huge. It's strange to need 4 Lysandre if you have 4 Vs Seeker, 2 use to be enough and those 4 Vs seeker should be there for sure. And N (though I hate it so much) it's better than Judge. 6 cards if starting the game, disrupting the opponent's ideas, disrupt a lot if you loosing and saves you to draw out at the end of games. Unless you need 4 cards in hand (Yanmega Break deck), N is better. If the plan of the deck is to disrupt, then Red card (+ Delinquent). That's criminal.

 

Thanks to the censor for forbid pokémon names :rolleyes:

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Budz - Very interesting twist with the Carbink. After rocking the Zygarde-EX/CarbinkBreak deck, I understand the power of the EX blocker, and in a pinch having it hit 120 is brutal. Definitely a few ideas to think about. Very good response.

 

Chasista - WOW! I've read your full response twice and parts several times more. You didn't take the "do this" route, but you gave rational and I absolutely love that approach because it helps me to learn. I wish I had the Shaymin-EX, but I don't. I'm on my way out the door for dinner (running late because of you - lol), but you've given me some things to think about. When I come back to the computer, I will read your post again and start making adjustments and trying a few things out. By the way, when I looked at BreakPoint Raticate, I saw the ability and attack, but completely overlooked the free retreat.

 

Quick question as I ponder this over dinner...  I see a lot of potential and strength in BreakPoint Raticate/Break/Ariados, what I don't understand is why isn't this a more popular deck? The cards have been out for a while. Is this another cool deck idea that failed to gain traction because of Night March? (I'm too new to the game to know anything before the release of Fates Collide.)

 

(Edit: Fix typos)

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Budz - Very interesting twist with the Carbink. After rocking the Zygarde-EX/CarbinkBreak deck, I understand the power of the EX blocker, and in a pinch having it hit 120 is brutal. Definitely a few ideas to think about. Very good response.

 

 

 

Chasista - WOW! I've read your full response twice and parts several times more. You didn't take the "do this" route, but you gave rational and I absolutely love that approach because it helps me to learn. I wish I had the Shaymin-EX, but I don't. I'm on my way out the door for dinner (running late because of you - lol), but you've given me some things to think about. When I come back to the computer, I will read your post again and start making adjustments and trying a few things out. By the way, when I looked at BreakPoint Raticate, I saw the ability and attack, but completely overlooked the free retreat.

 

 

 

Quick question as I ponder this over dinner... I see a lot of potential and strength in BreakPoint Raticate/Break/Ariados, what I don't understand is why isn't this a more popular deck? The cards have been out for a while. Is this another cool deck idea that failed to gain traction because of Night March? (I'm too new to the game to know anything before the release of Fates Collide.)

 

 

 

(Edit: Fix typos)

 

 

From all the matches I went up against using this deck, I see that the big problem is Rat ta ta and Raticate themselves. Rat ta ta's HP is a measly 30 and can be KO'd by anyone who has attack that only requires a DCE. And both of them don't really have any attacks (if you don't have any benched Pokemon at the start, Dangerous Suspicion won't help you much. Dirty Shock is useful to poision even a Grass pokemon + discard a tool, but that's about it). Also, getting the Raticate BREAK line takes 2-3 turns which is time-consuming for a lot of players. Ariados and Octillery aren't worthy attackers either.

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Yes, before rotation Trevenant Break (Item lock), Night March/Vespiquen, Greninja Break and Darkrai/Giratina/(Garbodor) were all very powerful decks. Sometimes one doesn't look into other directions trying to improve what is hitting hard a bit more. Maybe could work but there are a lot more things to consider.

 

The rotation of Startling megaphone and Xerosic, the only ways to discard an attached tool without attacking (which means you need the required energy and also to make the pokémon active) made Garbodor to rule the Meta with iron fist. There are out there exceptional decks and a lot of pokémon with amazing abilities but, if shut down, decks doesn't work.

 

On the other side, the Megas with 200+ HPs are the princes of the Garbodor's kingdom. So much HP made to look for 110+ damage attacks (as before with only EXs, used to be 90 a turn to 2HKO the 180HP ones), and the rats have a low HP which makes'em 1HKO.

 

Also being "stage 2" without possibilities of Rare candy to evolve it faster makes it slower to play than benching a basic pokémon (I mean EX of course), throw there some Max elixir and other to accelerate and a float stone to free switch with any active and hit for a bunch in a moment. Hard to set up means also hard to play.

 

The only two things in favour of the rats are very low energy requirement and prize rate exchange in front of EXs as giving only 1 prize per KO, but seem too easy KOs maybe to bet for it. It's a nice deck, even a good one with the right build, but arrived in the wrong moment. That's probably all.

 

As for the changes... I would copy the deck into a new one. What I do with my (crazy) ideas is to make the changes over a new deck (same name v2, v3, v4...) for if the changes are extremely useless or even horrible, come back to a previous version and go on from there if needed. That gives you also an idea of the evolution of your build and an exact counter of wins/looses (if you don't erase the middle ones) with every version and not only since the last editing.

 

Nothing is set in stone and I don't like to say, "you have to do this". You can do a thousand things because at the end will be your deck and you have to play it. I will be happy If you find even a single thing that help you to improve the deck, make it a tier one (hahaha) or just enjoy it more than before.

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Since you're not using the Breakpoint version of Raticate (the superior Raticate partner for Ariados, as Antibodies makes it immune to Special Conditions), why not squeeze in 2-3 Chaos Towers? Make the blue side face you and your Raticate won't get poisoned by Ariados.

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Platinum - I'm pretty much open to ideas. After finding out about the free retreat of the Breakpoint version of Raticate, its really growing on me. Right now, I only have two copies of that card (in both PTCGO and in real life). I like to run the same decks online as I do in local tournaments and make the same adjustments to each. This broadens the playing styles of my opponents a great deal.

 

My thoughts at this moment...

Since trying a Toxicroak/Ariados concoction last week, and attempting the Raticate deck this week, there parts of both that I like. I am looking forward to combining them. I think the Expansions Rat ta ta is the superior basic for Raticate. I also think that the success of the Raticate deck idea is dependent on dealing devastating damage, each turn. While there are many, many ways for the deck to fail, I see Basic Energy opponents as bad for the Evolutions Raticate and unmitigated Special Energy opponents destroying the Raticate Break/Araidos model.

 

Combining the two models...

Baseline: 2-2 Octillary, 2-2 Ariados, 4 Rat ta ta EVO 66, 2 Raticate BREAK BKP 89.

Flux: Raticate... I'm thinking 2 EVO 67 and 2 BKP 88.

Plan: Early game, establish the Octillary, Ariados, and Raticate BKP/Raticate BREAK to quickly destroy as much as possible, including Special Energies, while keeping the Raticate EVO in reserve for late game (if needed). Regardless of energy type, disruption will be important to allow the Raticate to survive more than one use.

 

Now, to take the plan and what I've learned about the Trainer cards for this deck and put it into practice... (Kind of reminds me of the saying: "Best laid plans of mice and men often go astray." I'm hoping for better results than that.)

 

 

 

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I like this as it is different to a lot of decks you see people use that have the big legendary hitters. I have always thought normal pokemon with a few exceptions were a bit lacklusture for decks but i have been surprised. Personally i have been looking at building a strong psychic deck out of the less likely pokemon, particularly now the likes of trevenant are not allowed. He was a great find for me as i love psychic pokemon and he became the staple of my deck.

 

Since Evolutions i am now looking to make a good pyschic deck using the poison ability as i have Virbank as a new trainer card in real life and want to test it out. Nidoking break will allow that but i am a bit wary that psychic pokemon seem to be weaker than they used to be so your post has really got me thinking now about those cards i might have previously discarded

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I'm back... lol

Since my last post, I've been playing this deck, and while mostly keeping with the same Trainer cards, I've been toying with the quantity of each. I've run into a few issues and I'd like to run them past the collective for advice.

One of the key things that gives me a fighting chance is energy disruption so I adjusted that capability.

With the Sycamores, I added an extra Super Rod. With 2 Super Rods and running into the occasional Vespiquen with Bee Revenge, I was thinking of switching one to Karen. Should I just worry about my own Pokemon's knockout potential and not worry about the Vespiquen-type issues by sticking with the Super Rods?

I don't remember what I gained by dropping Escape Rope, but I think I have run into enough instances where I wish I could have wished for it to top deck. I was thinking about switching the Float Stone to Escape Rope, but the Float Stone has come in handy so I don't know.

After encountering a number of decks where I get game-ending stuck facing Greninja Shadow Stitching and Giratina-EX Chaos Wheel, I believe that I really need a Pokemon Ranger. The problem is what to give up. I thought about Delinquent, but I really don't want to have to give it up and be stuck with a bad stadium. I also thought about reducing the number of Sycamores to 3, but 4 has been coming in handy. Maybe reduce Basic Energy to 2?

Overcoming issues addressed by a Pokemon Ranger will be nice, but I have one class of deck that is really driving me nuts. Grass Type (Ariados won't poison Grass Type) decks that don't play Special Energy (no Raticate backup attacker). Is this type of deck going to be my Kryptonite, or is there a way around it that I'm missing?

Honestly, I really like how this deck is becoming more comfortable as the number of my mistakes goes down. Here is what I've been using for the last 2 days:

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******

##Pokémon - 18

* 2 Raticate BREAK BKP 89
* 4 Rat ta ta EVO 66
* 2 Raticate BKP 88
* 2 Raticate EVO 67
* 2 Spinarak AOR 5
* 2 Ariados AOR 6
* 2 Remoraid BKT 32
* 2 Octillery BKT 33

##Trainer Cards - 35

* 1 Delinquent BKP 98
* 2 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 4 Crushing Hammer EPO 92
* 2 Super Rod BKT 149
* 2 Lysandre AOR 78
* 4 Professor Sycamore BKP 107
* 1 Team Flare Grunt XY 129
* 4 Level Ball AOR 76
* 1 Parallel City BKT 145
* 2 N *******
* 1 Float Stone BKT 137
* 3 Ultra Ball *** 113
* 1 Town Map BCR 136
* 3 Enhanced Hammer ******
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109

##Energy - 7

* 4 Double Colorless Energy *** 114
* 3 Grass Energy GEN 75

Total Cards - 60

****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******

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