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Damage Change question


Shadowy

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Why mewtwo ex can use damage change when the opponent is "guarded" by the preventing of any effects or damage, by an ability (like giratina ex when mega mewtwo uses damage change through shrine o memories) or an attack like jirachi discarting a special energy from him?

I mean... As the description states that mewtwo SWITCHES the damage, and he is not allowed to "touch" the opponent's damage, so this move should fail.
For me, it works like trick works on pokemon games (XY, ORAS) when a pokemon uses trick facing a pokemon holding a mega stone. As it isn't able to trade, because of the mega stone, the move fail.
And if we pretend that the damage change was "tool change", it can be clearer to understand... As mewtwo cannot take the opponent's tool to switch it, the movement should fail, for in this case mewtwo cannot "send" it's tool for 2 reasons. One is because the opponent is "immune" to any effects of mewtwo and the second one is because there is no room for the tool (on the opponent's pokemon).

Also, we can think about it using the trainer switch as an example. If you have only one pokemon, you cannot use it. And if there were an move that could prevent the opponent from retreating, even through trainers, you could not be able to use the switch card as well.

So, why on Earth Mewtwo vanishes it's damages facing this circunstancies? 

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Because it was ruled such by an official rulings venue. I'll try to break down the order of operations.

 

The attack "Damage Change" doesn't have any sort of condition modifier such as "If you aren't able to do X, then this attack does nothing. So what happens is that it basically tries to do as much of the attack as possible.

 

1. Mewtwo-EX uses Damage Change

2. Mewtwo-EX attempts to take the damage from a Pokemon with a buff (e.g. Regice)

3. Regice prevents Mewtwo-EX from healing it, causing no damage to move.

4. Mewtwo attempts to transfer it's own damage to buffed Pokemon (e.g. Regice)

5. Mewtwo successfully heals itself, as there are no effects blocking the removal of damage

6. Mewtwo attempts to place the damage on buffed Pokemon (e.g. Regice)

7. The shield prevents the damage being placed, and since the attack does not state that the damage goes back to Mewtwo if it is blocked, the damage removed from Mewtwo fizzles.

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Because it was ruled such by an official rulings venue. I'll try to break down the order of operations.

 

The attack "Damage Change" doesn't have any sort of condition modifier such as "If you aren't able to do X, then this attack does nothing. So what happens is that it basically tries to do as much of the attack as possible.

 

1. Mewtwo-EX uses Damage Change

2. Mewtwo-EX attempts to take the damage from a Pokemon with a buff (e.g. Regice)

3. Regice prevents Mewtwo-EX from healing it, causing no damage to move.

4. Mewtwo attempts to transfer it's own damage to buffed Pokemon (e.g. Regice)

5. Mewtwo successfully heals itself, as there are no effects blocking the removal of damage

6. Mewtwo attempts to place the damage on buffed Pokemon (e.g. Regice)

7. The shield prevents the damage being placed, and since the attack does not state that the damage goes back to Mewtwo if it is blocked, the damage removed from Mewtwo fizzles.

I got it. But the issue, for me, is the word "switch"... If in the description was written something like "Put your damage on your opponent's active pokemon and take it's damage for you", I could accept it. But as it states a "switch", for me it implies that 2 distinct "things" must be free for the change. I think it should have an errata for this. Because, for me, there is no switch/change/trade if there aren't 2 or more "things" to switch to. 

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Damage change is one of the *******, least creative moves ever.

 

EDIT: The adjective form of lazy is censored...? So lazy is not censored but if I decide to make it an adjective... it's censored. Rrrrrrriigghhhhttttt. 

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Damage change is one of the *******, least creative moves ever.

 

EDIT: The adjective form of lazy is censored...? So lazy is not censored but if I decide to make it an adjective... it's censored. Rrrrrrriigghhhhttttt. 

Actually damage change is kinda like the move "Pain split" in the video game, although it acts a bit differently the concept it still there

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Actually damage change is kinda like the move "Pain split" in the video game, although it acts a bit differently the concept it still there

 

I do agree but pain split wasn't this simplistic and was easier to predict and take advantage of. If you knew it was coming and they are predicting a big attack to soak up or just getting the speed advantage you could swap in a low health pokemon before the pain split and get them to lose health while you recover health. You could completely burn them with it or marginalize its effects (like with a lot of moves/predictions in the VG). The video game is imo a lot more nuanced and deep than the card game though so it is what it is, you just can't "surprise" swap in a weak pokemon to make mewtwo feel burned. You also had to know exactly when to use your pain splits which is a lot harder in the VG than with damage change in the card game where its blatantly obvious when to use it. 

         I think the ruling should be that if you can't "effect" the target you shouldn't be able to trigger the secondary effect, a mewtwo full heal. It's just one of those details the attack should have had imo to make it make more sense and to give it more balance. That's really why I think it's lazy because of the lack of thought that went into how it interacts with certain cards like immune to EX effect pokemon cards. 

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What seminc said and it makes perfect sens to me because Jirachi's move only prevents damage being done to him it doesn't prevent any effects of an attack which Damage change becomes just like if you attacked into Trevanant (spelling?) Break even if you removed a special energy when Trev Break attacks with Silent fear you will still place 30 damage counters on each of your opponent's pokemon including jirachi because it is an effect of an attack the attack itself is not doing any damage. 

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What seminc said and it makes perfect sens to me because Jirachi's move only prevents damage being done to him it doesn't prevent any effects of an attack which Damage change becomes just like if you attacked into Trevanant (spelling?) Break even if you removed a special energy when Trev Break attacks with Silent fear you will still place 30 damage counters on each of your opponent's pokemon including jirachi because it is an effect of an attack the attack itself is not doing any damage. 

While this is true to a degree, Jirachi prevents all effects of attacks, which includes the damage counters added by the effect of Trev BREAKs attack. However your point still stands that if you attacked a buffed Jirachi with Silent Fear, you would still deal damage to all benched Pokemon even though Jirachi would be protected.

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While this is true to a degree, Jirachi prevents all effects of attacks, which includes the damage counters added by the effect of Trev BREAKs attack. However your point still stands that if you attacked a buffed Jirachi with Silent Fear, you would still deal damage to all benched Pokemon even though Jirachi would be protected.

 

Oh thank you for the correction

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