why so little energy?

[periwinxle]

okay so i've been on pokemon tcgo for about two months or so now, but i am no stranger to the pokemon world.. i thought i had some good decks and was a relatively good player for a somewhat-beginner, but i started searching through this forum and noticed that people tend to use a shockingly low amount of energy whereas i use anywhere from 25-30 per deck! i've never found trainer cards all that useful and unless i have a lot of energy, i find myself sitting there staring at a trainer/evolution filled hand with nothing to do but to let the other person win. idk i just dont get it i guess. can someone explain it to me?

[Mega_Mewthree]

Can you post your deck list? Normally you don't need much energy because trainers can fish out energy and other cards quickly. Some trainers can give helpful effects that will allow you to win. I only use around 10 energy in my deck, and I still win a lot.

[just_aaric]

You learn how to recycle and go through your deck accordingly. 25-30 is much too high as it leaves less room for cards that help you benefit the game. If you have 15 energy cards, that's 1/4 and that's a fair shot. There is Blacksmith, Energy retrieval, Trainer cards that let you shuffle your hand into your deck and draw X cards. These are a var more valuable use of card space as it can help in situations beyond just energy. 

[PlatinumDude]

As a general rule, you can only attach energy to a Pokemon once per turn (an exception includes Magnetic Circuit Magnezone, which lets you attach as many Electric energy to your Pokemon as you want during your turn).

 

People use more Trainers than energy because Trainer cards are important to let you dig into your deck fast enough for the necessary energy; examples are Professor Sycamore and Max Elixir; the former lets you get a new hand of 7 cards after discarding your entire hand, while the latter gets a basic energy straight to a Basic benched Pokemon. 

 

More often than not, if around 1/3rds of your deck is energy, you'll have a tough time drawing into what you need, especially if you need to draw into a Trainer or Pokemon that can turn the tide of the game.

 

Edit: semi-Greninja'd

[viktor5]

Think of it this way, a hand full of energy is probably the worst possible hand.

 

Trainer cards are what you want most of because thru them you can get the cards you need when you need them most.

 

30+ trainer cards that are complimentary to one another and to your pokemon is ideal.

 

You don't need much energy because you can fish them from your deck or retrieve them from discard.

 

The strategy behind this is to run your deck out as fast as possible to do the most damage first or whatever is driving your deck to victory.

[periwinxle]

Think of it this way, a hand full of energy is probably the worst possible hand.

Trainer cards are what you want most of because thru them you can get the cards you need when you need them most.

30+ trainer cards that are complimentary to one another and to your pokemon is ideal.

You don't need much energy because you can fish them from your deck or retrieve them from discard.

The strategy behind this is to run your deck out as fast as possible to do the most damage first or whatever is driving your deck to victory.

so for example, if i were to make a greninja deck and i wanted...

x4 froakie

x4 frogadier

x4 greninja

x4 greninja break

x2 ash-greninja ex

...what trainer cards do you think would best complement that? also, could you elaborate on how the cards may complement each other? and how much energy do you think i would need?

[periwinxle]

Can you post your deck list? Normally you don't need much energy because trainers can fish out energy and other cards quickly. Some trainers can give helpful effects that will allow you to win. I only use around 10 energy in my deck, and I still win a lot.

look at my post above this one for my basic deck idea without trainers or energy.

[PlatinumDude]

so for example, if i were to make a greninja deck and i wanted...

x4 froakie

x4 frogadier

x4 greninja

x4 greninja break

x2 ash-greninja ex

...what trainer cards do you think would best complement that? also, could you elaborate on how the cards may complement each other? and how much energy do you think i would need?

As an example, Professor's Letter lets you add any 2 basic energy from your deck to your hand. Fisherman lets you add 4 basic energies from your discard pile to your hand, but it's a Supporter. Energy Retrieval does the same thing as Fisherman, but it only adds 2 energies. Super Rod lets you return 3 of any combination of Pokemon and basic energies to the deck. These cards work well in the deck because you'll be using Greninja Break's Giant Water Shuriken to damage opposing Pokemon by discarding Water energies, and the latter 3 Trainers can get that energy back for you to use again.

 

Ultra Ball lets you search for any Pokemon in the deck by discarding 2 cards (while this seems costly, it's worth the search). In Water decks, Dive Ball lets you search out a Water Pokemon from the deck for free.

 

As I already mentioned, Sycamore is good for getting a new hand if you can't do anything with your current one. N is also a staple Supporter, as he not only gives you new cards in a pinch, but he also can disrupt the opponent if you're lucky (depending on how far the game has gone through). Vs. Seeker is also a staple item as it can let you reuse Supporters, or Supporters that were discarded from the hand for whatever reason.

 

The Stadium card Rough Seas lets both players heal 30 damage from their Water and Electric Pokemon once per turn; this is important for these kinds of decks, as the passive recovery can help the Pokemon you're using stay in the game for a longer time.

 

Not all Trainer cards help you. Some can disrupt the opponent. Lysandre lets you choose a Benched Pokemon to make active; this is helpful for nipping problem Pokemon in the bud before they become a threat. 

 

Greninja decks generally use around 8-10 energies, as the main attacker, Breakpoint Greninja, has attacks that only cost one energy.

[palarith]

In general, most decks have 4 x prof Sycamore, 3-4 N This allows you to refresh your hand each turn. giving you at least one energy. Cards like shaymin and octillery also allow you to draw more cards per turn. If you have too much energy, you will end up mid to late game with hands full of energy and not much else.

 

There are also recycle cards like superrod which allows you to recycle energy into you deck

[Endosutra]

Psst... real pros don't use any energy. 

[viktor5]

so for example, if i were to make a greninja deck and i wanted...

x4 froakie

x4 frogadier

x4 greninja

x4 greninja break

x2 ash-greninja ex

...what trainer cards do you think would best complement that? also, could you elaborate on how the cards may complement each other? and how much energy do you think i would need?

Like the above guy said you will want cards that retrieve energy from discard pile to compliment your shuriken. You don't need much energy at all considering your pokemon. As long as you can pull from deck and discard you will be set. You'll then want card to control what your opponent is doing and anticipate what can thwart your deck. You will always need energy but you don't want it all at once.

 

You need a lot of evolution so Wally and Evosoda combined will pump you up fast. How do you get there though? Steven will help you grab a Wally and an energy. Steven can also grab that 1 Lysander, delinquent, or sycamore that will come in handy, having N around also a key to cycle through your deck.

[Legacyofthe24]

A general rule I like to follow and I feel I have alot of success with is a 20-20-20 rule. I'll never put more than 20 pokemon in a deck but the only way I put more than 20 energy in a deck is if I add double colorless energies to it. Trainers, if used correctly, can be more effective than any amount of energy put into a deck especially energy fishers. I also try to never go more than 3 energy types in a deck b/c to me, after 3 types, the decks get convoluted. Again just some tips.

[SuperStone]

20-20-20 simply doesn't work.  I'm sorry, but there are very few decks that can roll with that.  Most styles of play can be most effective with 13-36-11 ratios or similar.  Of course, acceleration decks need more energy while mill decks don't need as much, and multi-evolution will need lots of pokemon, while stall decks only need 4-8.

[Butterfreeknife]

Lol I have a deck with 15 energy and it needs more/less at the same time which is very annoying. XD >_>

[SuperStone]

Edit-What is going on here?  typed first post, it disappeared, reloaded page, it was still gone, posted this, and the first one is back...


On a topic somewhat related, I would like to introduce the PLUBER trick to those of you who don't know it. The PLUBER trick is a play with three cards that nets you any pokemon and two basic energy of any type. First, you play the professor's letter (PL) to grab the two energy. Second, use ultra ball to discard them (UB). Finally, play an energy retrieval to get them back, or even a different set. (ER) Played: 3 cards. Gained: 3 cards. This is as opposed to using them individually, where you would need to play 5 cards and would get five back, but that would be more energy than necessary in most decks.

[pkremer]

Honestly, I like to roll more with an 8 Pokemon - 40 trainers - 12 energy deck. My fire deck with 12 energy rarely ever has trouble getting energy in my hand through a variety of trainers and pokemon attacks. Fish it out of the deck, fish it out of the discard pile, but you don't want a whole hand full of energy. The best decks pull the energy they need for the turn, and don't have tons left in their hand at the end of it.

[ALoneInuit]

I know what you're going through. I'm very new, maybe 2 nights played. I use 15ish (4 double colorless+11 of what I need for the deck) energy, and before I was using around 25, too. But the stale energy hands suck! Keep in mind, too that you won't even probably use all that energy. you'll be concentrating on  equipping your attacker, and wasting energy turns on cards that die anyway isn't the best thing. Also, I feel like I will get better cards later on. Sometimes when you lose, too, it's more because of luck, it might not always be your deck. 

[periwinxle]

thank you all so much for the advice!!! i decided that before i applied all of this new knowledge to a whole new greninja deck, i would fix up an old deck. actually, it's relatively new. i think i made it right before the big shutdown that happened yesterday. but yeah, it was a fairy type deck that had consisted of mainly xernes-ex, xernes-break, and m gardevoir-ex. i had a couple of fillers in there as well such as marill/azumarill, but they're pretty good attackers still at least when they evolve to azumarill. anyway, i had 21 pokemon, 12 trainers, and 27 energy in total. i changed it so i now have 12 pokemon, 28 trainers, and 20 energy. i'm gonna reduce the energy even more now because there was such a drastic change as soon as i switched it! again, thank you so much for the help, everyone.

[PlatinumDude]

thank you all so much for the advice!!! i decided that before i applied all of this new knowledge to a whole new greninja deck, i would fix up an old deck. actually, it's relatively new. i think i made it right before the big shutdown that happened yesterday. but yeah, it was a fairy type deck that had consisted of mainly xernes-ex, xernes-break, and m gardevoir-ex. i had a couple of fillers in there as well such as marill/azumarill, but they're pretty good attackers still at least when they evolve to azumarill. anyway, i had 21 pokemon, 12 trainers, and 27 energy in total. i changed it so i now have 12 pokemon, 28 trainers, and 20 energy. i'm gonna reduce the energy even more now because there was such a drastic change as soon as i switched it! again, thank you so much for the help, everyone.

20 energy is still too much. Cut it down to around 10-12.

[b9n3z666]

I use a deck that "needs" energy, with Yveltal-EX and Darkria-EX and I still only 16, which is a lot. Since I'm hoping to win by turn 9, so I'm needed to use things like Max Elixir to get the energy out faster since you can only draw "1" per turn and drop "1" energy per turn. Even so I'm trying to figure out ways to do it faster. I'll discard a lot of energy since Yveltal has an attack that'll take an energy from the discard pile into my hand.