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Why is N so popular?


CarbideFRL

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It seems like every game I play on turn 1 or 2 my opponent plays N.

I don't get it.

 

On turn 1 both players will have 6 prize cards so when N is played, both players are getting 6 cards.

If i'm going second and this happens, I have 6 or less cards; of those 6 none are basic pokemon, or they would already be on my bench.

So when my opponent plays N, I'm getting a free replacement hand.

I haven't had a chance to use any cards yet, my new hand is just as random as the one I got in the initial draw and thus not punishing me, in fact if I played 2 or more basics to my bench before the start of the game, it's helping me.

 

I realize my opponent wants to get additional cards in their hand, but Professor Birch and Shauna both get you cards and neither help the opponent.

I could see N being used later in the game when a player is behind on prize cards, but then Ace Trainer would often be more effective.

 

Which brings me to the Judge, if you want to get more cards in your hand on turn 1 and sting your opponent at the same time, he's the card. Most of the time I and many of my opponents will start the game with 1 active and maybe 1 benched, thus 6 or 5 cards in hand. The judge drops you to 4.

 

There are many cards that will let you pull more cards from your deck on turn 1, but I don't remember the last game I played where I didn't ******* with N in turn 1 or 2.

 

Am I missing something here? Why are people using N so much?

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N can be helpful at the beginning of the game but in most cases the user won't know it. I use N at the beginning because not only does it grant me the chance to either place more cards on the field or use more item/tool cards to get me set up quickly but it also has a chance of slowing my opponent down.

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Pokemon is a card game, and no matter how well you've built your deck, the best way to win is to go through all your cards. N and other one's like that let you do that.  You can have a great deck but if you can't cycle through your cards that you need, you'll lose every time. 

 

It also happens to mess with the other player... I know that I'll use VS Seeker to take out of discard and keep in my hand to make the other person worry when will it be used, am I forced to play something before I really want to.

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N is popular because it's powerful at every stage of the game.

 

Early on the benefit to yourself is obvious: You get 6 cards off the draw compared to Shauna's 5 and Judge's 4. Like you said, it doesn't punish the opponent very much, but it helps you get going and that's what counts. Judge early-game is risky because you're only drawing 4 cards, and there's a possibility you draw bad and they draw good off it. Shauna's 5 cards just isn't very good period and it doesn't do anything else.

 

Later on, you use it to choke out your opponent from being able to take their last few prizes. A common scenario: You're at 4 prizes, opponent is at 2 after taking out your EX last turn. You play down cards to power up your EX to return the KO, then play N. You get 4 cards, he gets 2, then you take the KO. Now your opponent has to somehow finish the game with the 2+1 cards he's about to draw or lose the game to your fully charged attacker.

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If i'm going second and this happens, I have 6 or less cards; of those 6 none are basic pokemon, or they would already be on my bench.

If you are putting down all of your Basic Pokemon immediately after the draw, you are probably in the minority.  There are many good strategic reasons to only play Basic Pokemon as needed (prevent Lysander, prevent attacks that are based on opponent bench size, prevent bench sniping).  Playing N immediately deprives your opponent of the Basic cards he chose NOT to reveal (ie. No one drops their Shaymin on the bench after the draw, they wait until their turn to get the benefit).

 

The disruption N causes throughout the match makes it the best card draw mechanic while potentially strangling your opponents access to their card draw options.

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To add to the above, N is also good for disrupting an opponent's searches. If your opponent searched for a card they needed, but can't use it the turn they got it, N is also good for potentially putting the card back in their deck and forcing them to either draw it through luck or search for it again. Of course, there's the risk of getting the card back in their new hand, though.

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Thanks for all the replies.

I certainly see the value in using N, it just surprised me how often I'm seeing him. I was playing often about a year ago and then stopped and just go back into TGO.

I was wondering if there was something that I was missing or overlooking.  

 

 

I guess I'm in the minority, which is fine, it means that what I play will be unexpected.

 

If you are putting down all of your Basic Pokemon immediately after the draw, you are probably in the minority.

I generally only have 2 basic in my opening hand, and I play them both. I play them both for a few reasons, first to prevent the turn one or two knockout if you have no bench.  

It's also in reaction to N, since most players I'm facing are playing him, a turn one lysander isn't a big deal.  

 

Lysander is in nearly every deck, so having counters for him is standard in my deck building.  

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You're right on the initial post.  I feel people try intimidating me with it in person, but often times its a good hand I'm dealt.  So I just laugh it off now. I have 1-2 N's and i only use them in late game situations.  1-3 Shauna/Birch and 4 Sycamores.

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N is not so much a card you use to punish your opponent, but it can be. It's mostly to help you out. Birch is unreliable in that you have to flip a coin and more often than not, you're gonna get 4 cards out of it instead of 7. Sycamore makes you discard your whole hand which may not be ideal in certain situations. Judge only gets you 4 new cards which might slow you down over the next few turns. Shauna only gets you 5 cards, which is only really good for later in the game if you've got less than 6 prize cards.

I will use N near the beginning of the game if I simply am stuck and need a new hand. I am guaranteed 6 new cards if I've got 6 prize cards, which is pretty good, especially since you're not required to discard anything like in Sycamore's case. Sure, it may help your opponent out too, but it might not. I've had people play N and it sucks for me because I had a Mega in my hand I was planning to use next turn. Or I was holding on to certain cards like VS Seeker, Lysandre, etc. that could've been game changers next turn. If someone uses Hoopa Ex's ability to grab an ex and a mega, and benches the ex, you know they're going to Mega evolve next turn. So use N to mess with their plans. There a ton of situations in which N is better than a lot of other draw support cards.

But more importantly, you should never only run N for draw support. Run a few N, run a few Sycamore, etc. to help you in different situations.

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We all know that N is kind of good when you have more prizes or stuck with a bad hand but i believe that goes beyond.  N like a lot of other sup cards can be used around game breaking situations, to break setups when you realize that your oponent have the cards in his hand and are just waiting for turns to pass. It is obvious that it will have a price to be paid, but may worth it.

 

Some examples:

 

  • Situations like when you see your enemy using lots of items and good supporters cards to gather more cards in his turn, such as letters and tierno/cheren, it can lead to your oponent to double the amount of cards he has, it may be wise to return it to six or less.

 

  • Balls used early on (to evolve next turn), some playes are incredible greedy and they like to see all the stages in its hands even before they can evolve, while it waits the turn to pass you make it discard the evolutions.

 

  • Attacks like the new talonflame aeroblitz (searches two cards), articuno energy searches, milotic and other specific card diggers are a deal too, you make your oponent discard the cards. In that case N is specially good since card searching is the door to the perfect setup for your oponent, You got an "extra breathe" turn before the oponent scales his set.

Well there are lots of situations N can be used, i really like this card.

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Carbide, you shouldn't allow yourself to be in the minority on this one. And Lepsta is spot on.

 

N has so many uses that to not use him is just putting yourself at a disadvantage. 

 

You can cycle through your cards rapidly with him. A Sycamore is good too and especially so when you can VS and pull cards out of discard, but it's only good for giving you more cards.

 

With N the only downside is that once you're winning he is less effective. In other words, you're winning the game!!! I find myself still using N, by the time I'm winning I may have drawn all my cards and a big draw would deck myself.

 

If you're losing N can help you catch up and slow down your opponent. You have more control over the match too.

 

On rare occasions, I've encountered opponents who try to deck me. An N helps counter this and lets you cycle through your deck to get exactly what you need. 

 

I'm on a budget and don't have 4 of everything and I find that after running 4 N's and just 2 Sycamores in all my decks it allows me to get what I need almost every match. 

 

So don't leave yourself in the minority! You'll start to see the benefit immediately!!!

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IMO N is used my novice players (at best) that do not truly know how to put together a deck, but instead just copies other players posted/published decks.

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You don't get it because you are a smart player, CarbidFRL. N is a great card to have in your deck, but people who use it on turns 2, 3 or 4 are often helping their opponent more than they help themselves. I can't tell you how many games I've won because my opponent refreshed my hand with N. I remember a game where I was absolutely dead drawing, one card at a time, and my opponent played N and gave me 6 new cards. Why would he do that?

 

Now, if it is the beginning of the game, and you are going first, an N can mess with your opponent. He likely just finished planning his first turn, and BOOM he has to draw a new hand. Or if he got bonus cards because you mulliganed a few times, you can force him to lose his advantage.

 

But on turn 2, 3, or 4, N is most often a foolish play. Your opponent just played all the cards he could on his previous turn, meaning the ones he had left weren't useful to him last turn. Especially if he only has 1-3 cards left, why on earth would you refresh his hand? I only play N on turns 2 to 4 if I am desperate for another pokemon on my bench or I need an energy so badly I could lose the game if I fall a turn behind. Early game N's are for desperation or if you KNOW FOR A FACT you will mess with your opponent by shuffling a card he needs next turn back into his hand, not for standard strategy to get a a few extra cards this turn. 

 

In the early game, you should be using Sycamore, Juniper, or Colress. I could get behind Birch, but Shauna makes it into precisely zero of my decks.

 

Use N later in the game when it will really mess with your opponent, not in the beginning where you are just as likely to be helping them more than you are helping yourself. Unless of course, you are playing me. Then N me every turn. Seriously, I love it when my opponent plays N early game. ;)

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Godric, that's true but newbies won't learn how to use it unless they use it. Should new players just not play Pokemon because they don't know how to build their own deck????

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Godric, that's true but newbies won't learn how to use it unless they use it. Should new players just not play Pokemon because they don't know how to build their own deck????

While copying a deck is easy, it doesnt help them learn anything.  Such as to the OP's comment, playing N on turn 1 etc.  :|  I mean is how many hundreds of cards, yet cards in use by many players boil down to what... 100 cards? lol  way too many followers and not enough leaders :D  I've seen days this last week, where I would do 10 fights back to back..and like 7 of the players would be using near the same identical deck, with few exceptions...assuming they didnt have exact cards.

 

Have seen players turn 1, play N, turn 2 play another N, repeated til like turn 4...  How could that possibly be good for them lol  Its quite obvious they should have different cards instead but they want to be in the 'in' crowd with the N's

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You don't get it because you are a smart player, CarbidFRL. N is a great card to have in your deck, but people who use it on turns 2, 3 or 4 are often helping their opponent more than they help themselves. I can't tell you how many games I've won because my opponent refreshed my hand with N. I remember a game where I was absolutely dead drawing, one card at a time, and my opponent played N and gave me 6 new cards. Why would he do that?

 

Now, if it is the beginning of the game, and you are going first, an N can mess with your opponent. He likely just finished planning his first turn, and BOOM he has to draw a new hand. Or if he got bonus cards because you mulliganed a few times, you can force him to lose his advantage.

 

But on turn 2, 3, or 4, N is most often a foolish play. Your opponent just played all the cards he could on his previous turn, meaning the ones he had left weren't useful to him last turn. Especially if he only has 1-3 cards left, why on earth would you refresh his hand? I only play N on turns 2 to 4 if I am desperate for another pokemon on my bench or I need an energy so badly I could lose the game if I fall a turn behind. Early game N's are for desperation or if you KNOW FOR A FACT you will mess with your opponent by shuffling a card he needs next turn back into his hand, not for standard strategy to get a a few extra cards this turn. 

 

In the early game, you should be using Sycamore, Juniper, or Colress. I could get behind Birch, but Shauna makes it into precisely zero of my decks.

 

Use N later in the game when it will really mess with your opponent, not in the beginning where you are just as likely to be helping them more than you are helping yourself. Unless of course, you are playing me. Then N me every turn. Seriously, I love it when my opponent plays N early game. ;)

You are right and wrong...

What happens if my deck is just better and I use N on turn 2, 3 or 4 after my opponent played all the cards he could? What if I can just OHKO anything he place or counter anything he plays? I need the draw power and I don't really care about my opponent getting 6 new cards.

Sometimes you just can't play Sycamore, think about discarding 3 mega, you pretty much lose the match for that :/

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While copying a deck is easy, it doesnt help them learn anything.  Such as to the OP's comment, playing N on turn 1 etc.  :|  I mean is how many hundreds of cards, yet cards in use by many players boil down to what... 100 cards? lol  way too many followers and not enough leaders :D  I've seen days this last week, where I would do 10 fights back to back..and like 7 of the players would be using near the same identical deck, with few exceptions...assuming they didnt have exact cards.

 

Have seen players turn 1, play N, turn 2 play another N, repeated til like turn 4...  How could that possibly be good for them lol  Its quite obvious they should have different cards instead but they want to be in the 'in' crowd with the N's

What if they can't draw a Sycamore or Birch and N is the only draw support they have at the moment?

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I find myself using N on any turn, the point is to use the cards in your hand and then N'cycle more cards. Your deck is going to be mostly trainer cards and the quicker you can get set up the better. Meanwhile you're also randomizing your opponents' deck. Will you sometimes help them? Maybe. A cupcake comes in handy to see if you want to actually N in a less obvious situation.

 

As I said earlier the only drawback to N is when you start taking a lead, so use it wisely, but realize too it usually means your opponent will use an N to slow you down of you're hoarding cards in your hand.

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I think this debate is easily settled by pointing out that N appears in almost any Top 8 deck where it is allowed. So the pros think the good far outweighs the bad, and so do I, and so, it seems, do the majority of the community.

 

QED. Stock up on N.

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I think this debate is easily settled by pointing out that N appears in almost any Top 8 deck where it is allowed. So the pros think the good far outweighs the bad, and so do I, and so, it seems, do the majority of the community.

 

QED. Stock up on N.

Yeah clearly almost everyone here is secretly a newb that copies each others decks cuz almost everyone includes N in their decks :P

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personally i love this card because its gives 6 cards at the start and not 5 or fewer..

 

i use it only in case....i don't want to use juniper/sycamore ( cause i don't want to throw out my card in discard) .

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