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The Mindless Nonsense Begins-My Ideas


theotherguytm
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If you need any averages etc. of my pulls from SUMO GR, let me know what info you want and I can let you know if it helps with your data?

 

Will be fairly easy for me to work out as I only started opening packs over the past couple of days.

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Interesting. But there are three slight holes which bring the cave of ideas slamming down on our heads. First, Oak's Hint is useless. The whole reason Beach is so good is you can draw cards after using your Supporter. Oak's Hint kinda, more than a little, defeats the objective there. Second, how to spread the damage if Wobb is our Active? Eye get locked by Wobb and... well. Finally, Tyranitar lacks Barrier Trait, which makes it very easy for anyone to Lysandre it up front and destroy it before we're ready, removing Ability lock in the process, allowing them to get set up. :(

 

On a more positive note I'm going to look at Lele pull rates now, as I said before. I'll make the following assumptions, since nobody told me anything.

  • One in every three packs contains a GX of some description, be it normal, FA or SR, that replaces the rare for that pack. Other FA/SR cards can be ignored.
  • The Reverse Holo has the same chance of being any rarity of card as any other card in the pack. (In other words, if there is 5 Commons to a pack, the RH has a 5/10 chance of being a common. By extension, it has a 1/10 chance of being a Energy or Rare, and a 3/10 chance of being a Uncommon.)
  • There are 12 GXs in S&M:GR, and each has an equal chance of appearing. They all have their own FA and SR versions, that, again, have the same rarity as each other.
  • The Reverse Holo for the pack can be a GX, even if the Rare is also a GX.

So, in any given pack your chance of the rare card being a GX of any kind is 1/3. The chance of the RH being a GX is 1/30. (Therefore your chance of getting two GXs in the same pack should be 1/90, small enough to test whether this can happen.) The chance of a GX being Lele is 1/12. Therefore:

1/12 * 1/3 = 1/36 - your base pull rate.

Then the RH may be a Lele.

1/12 * 1/30 = 1/360 - your chance of getting a Lele and a non-RH Rare in the same pack.

So, your chance of getting at least one Lele is:

1/360 + 1/36 = 11/360 or 3.05% or around once every 32-33 packs.

(This also suggests your chance of getting two Leles is 1/12960. Ouch.)

Best of luck to all those Lele hunting. You may need it.

Of Course Oak's hint is useless, it's hint is "Don't use me".

 

The pull rates for Lele's is sad, how are we suppost to pull any?

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Of Course Oak's hint is useless, it's hint is "Don't use me".

 

The pull rates for Lele's is sad, how are we suppost to pull any?

Is oak's hint the most worthless supporter ever?

 

Dunno about you, but not thinking about what card you want when you open the pack seems to work...sorta. I opened countless RS packs and never pulled out a shaymin, but instead got 2 SR vs seeker that I did not expect to get at all. Then I bought many GR packs to get playsets of specific trainers and garbs and I got tapu lele before I even get a single hala, mallow or choice band.

 

And I still don't have any garbs... Curse those Oricorios and Liligants!!!!

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If you need any averages etc. of my pulls from SUMO GR, let me know what info you want and I can let you know if it helps with your data?

 

Will be fairly easy for me to work out as I only started opening packs over the past couple of days.

What I need for exact figures is:

  • Can the Reverse Holo be a GX, and if so at what rate (I estimated 1/30), and is it at all possible to get two GXs in the same pack? (1/90?)
  • What is the pull rate of GXs of any kind?

Thanks!

Of Course Oak's hint is useless, it's hint is "Don't use me".

Is oak's hint the most worthless supporter ever?

Yes, it's very bad. But not the worst ever!

Cedric Juniper-choose a card in your hand and have your opponent guess the height. Guess wrong, you draw 3, guess right, they draw 3.

Bill/Mum's Kindness-Draw 2.

Steven-Sad.

Battle Reporter-Everyone wants a small hand!

Misty's Determination-Willpower won't get me all the cards I need.

Any more you want to add to the list?

The pull rates for Lele's is sad, how are we suppost to pull any?

Pray to the Broken One, and if he is feeling active today, he will fetch you a Lele. Just don't ask where from.

Dunno about you, but not thinking about what card you want when you open the pack seems to work...sorta. I opened countless RS packs and never pulled out a shaymin, but instead got 2 SR vs seeker that I did not expect to get at all. Then I bought many GR packs to get playsets of specific trainers and garbs and I got tapu lele before I even get a single hala, mallow or choice band.

 

And I still don't have any garbs... Curse those Oricorios and Liligants!!!!

At least you have some kind of method that works!

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^Wow totally forgot about Cedric Juniper! Definitely the worst supporter for sure. At least Bill had the honor of being super OP back when supporters don't exist.

 

Misty is ok. Not great but not oak's level of bad.

 

Even Steven found a bit of use in Sylveon decks, though he's pretty much trash anywhere else. Even misty is better.

 

Battle Reporter...man I hate every theme deck that has it.

 

And I can't believe I forgot about Imakuni...

Edited by BowserLuigi
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STOP HATING ON CEDRIC!!!!

 

Okay, that was a bit explosive. :P But c'mon, how likely is your opponent to have memorized the pokedex?  Ced will almost always get you a Cheren draw.  The only problem is that the TCGO handles it very badly.  There are what, five choices?  That is terrible, but you can't blame Ced.

 

Besides, he's my friend.

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STOP HATING ON CEDRIC!!!!

 

Okay, that was a bit explosive. :P But c'mon, how likely is your opponent to have memorized the pokedex?  Ced will almost always get you a Cheren draw.  The only problem is that the TCGO handles it very badly.  There are what, five choices?  That is terrible, but you can't blame Ced.

 

Besides, he's my friend.

'quickly alt+tabs into serebii'

 

Though yeah irl it will probably always be a Cheren, but what if you faced a professor???

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'quickly alt+tabs into serebii'

 

Though yeah irl it will probably always be a Cheren, but what if you faced a professor???

Besided there is always a probability of 1/5 of your opponent getting right xD :P

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^Wow totally forgot about Cedric Juniper! Definitely the worst supporter for sure. At least Bill had the honor of being super OP back when supporters don't exist.

 

Misty is ok. Not great but not oak's level of bad.

 

Even Steven found a bit of use in Sylveon decks, though he's pretty much trash anywhere else. Even misty is better.

 

Battle Reporter...man I hate every theme deck that has it.

 

And I can't believe I forgot about Imakuni...

Hail Master Imakuni! The Great One and his Doduo are only surpassed by the Broken One in likelihood to appear spontaneously in your deck!

STOP HATING ON CEDRIC!!!!

 

Okay, that was a bit explosive. :P But c'mon, how likely is your opponent to have memorized the pokedex?  Ced will almost always get you a Cheren draw.  The only problem is that the TCGO handles it very badly.  There are what, five choices?  That is terrible, but you can't blame Ced.

 

Besides, he's my friend.

How nice. The Broken One will use this to generate his emotion of the day.

'quickly alt+tabs into serebii'

 

Though yeah irl it will probably always be a Cheren, but what if you faced a professor???

In that case... quickly Ninja Boy the Pokémon before your opponent looks at the card!

Besided there is always a probability of 1/5 of your opponent getting right xD :P

Fate is fickle.

Thanks for all contributing!

Edited by theotherguytm
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And now, another deck idea. Having seen some of the event stream yesterday, it seems that rouge is the new meta, with Stage 2s for all! So here is a Stage 2 deck, albeit for Expanded.

 

 

Ghost Assault(E)

Pokémon: 16

4 Litwick StSi

2 Lampent StSi

4 Chandelure StSi

4 Wobbuffet Gen/PhFo

2 Tapu Lele GX

Energy: 6

2 ​Psychic

4 Mystery

Trainers: 38

​4 VS Seeker

3 Ultra Ball

3 Rare Candy

3 Battle Compressor

3 Dimension Valley

4 Professor Sycamore

3 N

2 Lysandre

2 Professor Kukui

1 Brigette

1 Delinqent

1 Ace Trainer

1 Wally

1 Olympia

1 Ghetsis

1 Pokémon Ranger

1 Brock's Grit

1 Karen

1 Teammates

1 Team Flare Grunt

 

 

Analysis:

 

 

So, a deck built off Chandelure's Lost Friends. This attack does 10 damage at first, but 10 more damage for each Supporter you've discarded. This deck therefore runs 22 Supporters to try and increase the Lost Friends attack to the point where it can do major damage. I chose to go with as many different Supporters as possible to maximise the flexibility of the deck, be it with Ghetsis putting your opponent instantly into top-deck mode, Ace Trainer to recover from a bad start, Team Flare Grunt to hurt your opponent's Energy, Kukui adding that critical extra damage or Teammates making comebacks look easy. You can also go with a more focused Supporter lineup, eg:

4 Sycamore

4 N

4 Kukui

4 Lysandre

2 Brigette

2 Wally

1 Brock's Grit

1 Teammates

This gives the same peak output and more consistency, but less options.

 

This rest of the deck is straightforward. Compressor loads the discard pile fast, while Dimension Valley reduces the attack cost of all Pokémon to a single Energy. Mystery Energy allows free retreat, and Wobbuffet can lock out Abilities while the deck is setting up, while still allowing Lele to fetch extra Supporters and Chandelure to give a free Acro Bike every turn with its Ability. Even Litwick and Lampent can help by attacking for free thanks to Dimension Valley, Litwick discarding any two cards from your deck and Lampent forcing both players to draw or discard to four cards in hand.

 

 

So, what do you think? Your thoughts below!

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Looks like a very original deck.  I just pulled my first copy of Chandelure yesterday, but I may want to built this.  All I can say is: why not four ultra balls?

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The new Diancie card has got to be the most ****** card I've ever seen....

 

Sry I simply have to use that word...You probably can tell what is it (starts with b and ends with s)

Edited by BowserLuigi
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The main problem is that you can only play one supporter per turn. So you need to get more in the discard per turn. You do this with Battle Compresser, and I think Sycamoreing turn one should boost your damage enough. You just have to avoid getting stuck with useless supporters IMO.

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Looks like a very original deck.  I just pulled my first copy of Chandelure yesterday, but I may want to built this.  All I can say is: why not four ultra balls?

Spaaaace. Glad you like it! Feel free to chop and change, and I forgot to add an Ace Spec (Dowsing Machine stands out in this deck compared to Life Dew and Computer Search)

The new Diancie card has got to be the most ****** card I've ever seen....

 

Sry I simply have to use that word...You probably can tell what is it (starts with b and ends with s)

Haven't seen it. Could you fill me in?

The main problem is that you can only play one supporter per turn. So you need to get more in the discard per turn. You do this with Battle Compresser, and I think Sycamoreing turn one should boost your damage enough. You just have to avoid getting stuck with useless supporters IMO.

Compressors already in the deck. The stuck problem is the same problem a Typhlosion deck runs into when Energy gets stuck in the hand. The main thing to note is you have 1-2 turns to set up before you can use Lost Friends, perhaps using Litwick's (free) attack if you go first or can't find a Candy.

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Haven't seen it. Could you fill me in?

Diancie – Fairy – HP90

Basic Pokemon

 

[Y] Sparkling Prayer: Search your deck for a card that evolves from 1 of your Pokemon and put it onto that Pokemon. (This counts as evolving that Pokemon.) Then, shuffle your deck.

 

[Y][C] Diamond Storm: 30 damage. Heal 30 damage from each of your [Y] Pokemon.

 

Weakness: Metal (x2)

Resistance: Darkness (-20)

Retreat: 1

 

From pokebeach

Edited by BowserLuigi
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Diancie – Fairy – HP90

Basic Pokemon

 

[Y] Sparkling Prayer: Search your deck for a card that evolves from 1 of your Pokemon and put it onto that Pokemon. (This counts as evolving that Pokemon.) Then, shuffle your deck.

 

[Y][C] Diamond Storm: 30 damage. Heal 30 damage from each of your [Y] Pokemon.

 

Weakness: Metal (x2)

Resistance: Darkness (-20)

Retreat: 1

 

From pokebeach

 

Hate to break it to you, but that's not OP at all. It can only be used in Fairy decks, and it takes up your attack. There's been loads of cards like it before. They weren't used either. (Search DP:Phione/TM Evouter or the recent Celebi 20th promo) Thanks for sharing though!

And now, I find myself eating my words again. "Garb's good, but it won't win any events. The top players can deal with it."

The result from Seattle

 

DrampaTrash* - 9 (Masters and Seniors Champion)

Vespark - 1 (Masters runner-up)

Lapras - 3 (Junior Champion)

EspeonTrash* - 2

EspeonDrampaTrash* - 1

Despair - 2 (Seniors runner-up)

Greninja BREAK - 2

Vileye - 1

WobbuffetTrash* - 1

Mega Ray - 1

Alolan Ninetales* - 1

(Overall Trash: 13 decks) (* means deck introduced by new set)

 

 

Analysis

 

 

So, with the new meta unveiled, it is Garbodor that is the card to beat. Starting with Drampa/Espeon/Tapu Lele GX means the deck can put on early, fast pressure, forcing the opponent to play Items, and then be swept away in the Trashvalanche. Sudowoodo appears to have been the most popular Benchwarmer at this event, even more so than Garbotoxin! Even removing one Bench space cripples some decks completely, with Mega Ray in particular feeling the burn. Azelf can help by putting extra damage on those crippled by Magma's Secret Base which also gives Drampa GX maximum firepower. I'm calling this deck Drampador from now on. Lapras also looks strong, with Greninja BREAK back in action. Sorry I can't write more, but I'm out of time.

 

 

Add your thoughts below!

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Has anyone thought of using Rainbow Energy? You can search it out with energy lotto, and 10 damage is not a big deal.

Rainbow energy is troublesome. If you play just 1 it's you're gonna have ****** of a time trying to find it. If you play 4 then is it really worth it? Energy loto is meh if you don't play many special energies.

 

 

 

Whatever. That Diancie exists just for its art :)

 

edit: unless you mean garb/drampa using rainbow then yes they do play rainbow energy

Edited by BowserLuigi
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Today, I'm looking to enlist your help with my Aerodactyl deck. It's been overall... variable. Any 250 HP GX matchup is autoloss unless I end the game in 2 turns or my opponent spams Shaymins (or he tries to Lunar Fall me, and quits when it fails, true story. :D) Sometimes I have problems looking for cards like DOC, and/or I have a hand with Restoreds stuck in it and can't find an N. Other times I have no such worries, and setup goes as smoothly as I could hope. So, here's the list:


****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
##Pokémon - 15
* 4 Aerodactyl FAC 76
* 3 Talonflame STS 96
* 1 Mewtwo EVO 51
* 2 Omastar BREAK FAC 19
* 3 Omanyte FAC 17
* 2 Omastar FAC 18
##Trainer Cards - 38
* 3 Bursting Balloon BKP 97
* 3 Trainers' Mail ROS 92
* 1 Brock's Grit EVO 74
* 3 Helix Fossil Omanyte FAC 102
* 4 Acro Bike PRC 122
* 1 Team Flare Grunt XY 129
* 4 Puzzle of Time BKP 109
* 3 Old Amber Aerodactyl FAC 106
* 2 Skyla BKT 148
* 3 Fossil Excavation Kit FAC 101
* 4 N FAC 105
* 2 Dive Ball PRC 125
* 4 VS Seeker PHF 109
* 1 Float Stone BKT 137
##Energy - 7
* 3 Psychic Energy EVO 95
* 4 Double Colorless Energy FAC 114


The only change I've made since I last posted, as you can see, is dropping in a Float Stone for when people Lysandre my Omastar. I think there's a lot more potential in the deck, because when it works, it works great! But when it flops, it flops big style. I looked at the list for something to improve and saw the 1 Basic in my deck. If I could fit something better in there... so I created a list of all the Basics I could use, and labeled them with a S if I was happy to start with them, and a B if I would be happy to bench them if I started without them. The list is below:


Jirachi promo S B
Volcanion B
Alolan Vulpix S(perhaps)(B if evolved)
Sudowoodo Blockade B
Sableye Limitation S
Absol Doom News S
Rayquaza B
Pinsir S
Pyukumuku S
Bruxish S
Oranguru B
Manaphy Life Saver S
Solrock S B
Bunnelby Barrage S B
Deoxys Close Encounter S
Absol Cursed Eyes B
Klefki Look for Keys S
Jirachi Doom Desire S
Virizion Bail Out B
Entei Combat Blaze B
Regice B
Unown B
Sableye Furitive Drop S
Remoraid (B if evolved)
Zorua (B if evolved)
Yveltal Fright Night B
OBY B
Lapras Water Splash S
Sudowoodo Watch and Learn B
Shuckle Hide a Berry S B
Carbink Safeguard S B
Mr. Mime Bench Barrier B
Litwick S
Klefki Wonder Lock B
Cobalion Quick Guard S B
Mewtwo Barrier B
Latios EX S
Mew EX S B
Salamance EX B
Shaymin EX B (perhaps outside budget)
Lugia EX S B
Manaphy EX B
Glaceon EX B
Jolteon EX B
Umbreon EX S B
Tapu Lele GX S B
Drampa GX S B
Tauros GX S B


Other thoughts:

  • Omastar BREAK can't get Lele-is it worth it, or should I make 2 spaces for Lysandre and Lille?
  • Basic Energy or not-the 3 Psy Energy are only useful for not wasting a DOC on Talonflame, but I've use Aero Blitz enough with DOC.
  • Team Flare Grunt-situational, but has saved me against a Giratina with Lurantis GX.
  • Choice Band-could add some much needed firepower, but only raises Jet Draft to 150-not a significant increase. People have been using Lysandre to dodge my Bursting Balloons though.

Please tell me what you think! I'm all open to any suggestions, and any help narrowing down the list of Basics is welcome!
Edit: I hate this forum's censor and formatting.

Edit #2: I really hate this forum's censor and formatting.

Edited by theotherguytm
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I have been testing your deck for a little over 2 weeks now (at leagues and with friends, as well as on the PTCGO). It seems consisntent, but the problem I've been having is with having Aerodactyls in my hand instead of in the deck. I also find it a little hard to consistently get out both Fossil using the Fossil items.

 

Have you though of using Archie's? Its obviously not consistent in standard, but you can use Talonflame to get your hand perfectly for the Archie's. I have also been messing around with this variant. Its a little complicated, with space being so tight, but it works!

 

Anyway, it is still a fun deck and I really really like it.

 

EDIT: As for the list of Basics the ones I like the most are Deoxys, Bunnelby, Tauros, Manaphy, Regice, and Glaceon EX. I really like all of them, but some are a little more specific for specific Metas.

 

 

- Glaceon seems like the best choice for now since most decks are evolutions and you can replace the 3 Psychic Energy with water.

 

- Deoxys looks nice to get a first turn draw. 

 

- Sableye is a really cool idea, since you can use it to play 2 supporters per turn. I must test this in the Archie's variant im currently testing.

 

- Litwick seems nice for the Archie's variant im working on, but for your list it might not work as well because you don't need things discarded.

 

 

Edited by FlavorfulPineAp
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I have been testing your deck for a little over 2 weeks now (at leagues and with friends, as well as on the PTCGO). It seems consisntent, but the problem I've been having is with having Aerodactyls in my hand instead of in the deck. I also find it a little hard to consistently get out both Fossil using the Fossil items.

 

Have you though of using Archie's? Its obviously not consistent in standard, but you can use Talonflame to get your hand perfectly for the Archie's. I have also been messing around with this variant. Its a little complicated, with space being so tight, but it works!

 

Anyway, it is still a fun deck and I really really like it.

 

EDIT: As for the list of Basics the ones I like the most are Deoxys, Bunnelby, Tauros, Manaphy, Regice, and Glaceon EX. I really like all of them, but some are a little more specific for specific Metas.

 

 

- Glaceon seems like the best choice for now since most decks are evolutions and you can replace the 3 Psychic Energy with water.

 

- Deoxys looks nice to get a first turn draw. 

 

- Sableye is a really cool idea, since you can use it to play 2 supporters per turn. I must test this in the Archie's variant im currently testing.

 

- Litwick seems nice for the Archie's variant im working on, but for your list it might not work as well because you don't need things discarded.

 

 

The whole 'in the hand' issue I deal with using N or sometimes just playing with a reduced number of Aerodactyls. I've considered Maintainance (these Fossil decks are weird), but I think it's too situational. If you have to choose between Omanyte and Areodactyl, try for Omanyte. Sometimes I don't even need a single Old Amber, I just get a T2 Omastar and crush.

Yes I thought of Archie's and rejected it. It's too inconsistent right now. What I do is I just evolve up the Omastar 'by hand' while using whatever Aeros I can get from Old Ambers to hold the line. Between Talonflame, Skyla and Dive Ball, I've had no issues with getting out Omastar to add consistency later in the game and to combo with Grit.

Glad you like it!! As for the Basics:

  • Glaceon EX is good as a tech, but I need a Pokémon I can start with reliably. If I start with a Glaceon EX, I'll be inclined to reach for the 'concede' before I get smashed by a loaded Lele. Besides, finding a Water and a DOC is tricky.
  • The one issue with Deoxys is that I'll generally try to go second for Talonflame, which negates his first attack a bit.
  • Sableye is good, but it's dependant on what your opponent plays as well as finding a Dark and not a DOC.
  • Litwick can be used to discard the unused Talonflame, or excess Fossils.
  • Bunnelby is a card that seemed like fun to me.
  • The one card I think would work best is Drampa GX!! Berserk in combo with free retreat...can work entirely off DOC...Discards Special Energy like Aerodactyl...GX attack that this deck would love... the one issue is the two prize giveaway.
  • The other Pokémon I was really thinking about: Solrock, Oranguru, Tapu Lele GX, Lugia EX, Manaphy (non-EX), Shuckle, and Remoraid/Octillery

Thanks for sharing! Any other thoughts, or anyone else got any suggestions?

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I think that the non EX Manaphy is interesting, but it has almost the same purpose as Talonflame. Shuckle can set up some nice plays, including getting out Aerodactyls. I see Drampa working OK but I dont understand the free retreat... Also wasting 2 DCE on it isnt ideal. The GX attack is nifty, but your opponent could just shuffle away your cards. Also there is the iusse where you might draw into a few Aerodactyls.

 

The issue with the ones that are meant for benching is obviously starting with them. Unfortunate if you were to start with Oranguru or Octillery.

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For the 250 HP GX match up, just usr kukui or choice band.

I dont think Choice Band is needed here. It doesnt help any math, since you 2 shot anyway. The only thing I see it being used for is to 1HKO the new Marshadow GX (150 HP). You are correct for Kukui though.

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I think that the non EX Manaphy is interesting, but it has almost the same purpose as Talonflame. Shuckle can set up some nice plays, including getting out Aerodactyls. I see Drampa working OK but I dont understand the free retreat... Also wasting 2 DCE on it isnt ideal. The GX attack is nifty, but your opponent could just shuffle away your cards. Also there is the iusse where you might draw into a few Aerodactyls.

 

The issue with the ones that are meant for benching is obviously starting with them. Unfortunate if you were to start with Oranguru or Octillery.

Free retreat on the Aero Force allows me to Bench them when damaged, then send in Drampa for revenge. Manaphy can draw into my deck, giving me a 2nd N, or even combo with Acro Bike to get Omastar and its BREAK into my hand with tis other attack It's not as good at finding DOC though. Shuckle was in my original theory version of the deck, but I removed him when Talonflame was announced. He would help, but I think the attack is, again, invalidated by N and luck-reliant.

 

Yes, using two DOC on Drampa isn't ideal. Ideal is I find a DOC and a Basic Energy to power him, but unlike with Glaceon, I'm not forced into that route. And Big Wheel could result in a awkward hand, but it's less likely to go bad than N. Wost case scenario, I drop in an N next turn. And the whole 'opponent plays N' is the same problem Talonflame faces. Agreed, starting with Octillery is not how to have a good game, which is why I'm keen on Drampa: he can slot in easily and support in some games, and if I start with him I don't auto lose.

 

For the 250 HP GX match up, just usr kukui or choice band.

I dont think Choice Band is needed here. It doesnt help any math, since you 2 shot anyway. The only thing I see it being used for is to 1HKO the new Marshadow GX (150 HP). You are correct for Kukui though.

Yes, Kukui might be nice if I could squeeze him in somewhere. Choice Band, as I pointed out above, doesn't actually increase Aerodactyl's firepower to a noticeable degree. It only works in 250HP GX matchups. The one other annoyance I've encountered is Lapras GX with Rough Seas and a FFB. :angry:  And Max Potions. They are the bane of this deck's existence.

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