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The Mindless Nonsense Begins-My Ideas


theotherguytm
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Polyeidus, on 20 Jul 2016 - 5:59 PM, said:

I will be happy to see the end of night march. lol

I built this for Expanded, so this deck is staying.

 

And now, maths.

 

(For no readily available reason)

 

Talonflame does look good on paper. But what are your chances of drawing one?

 

1 - (56/60 * 55/59 * 54/58 * 53/57 * 52/56 * 51/55 * 50/54) = 0.399499...

 

In other words, with 4 Talonflame in your deck, the chance of getting one in your opening hand is just under 40%. This is the same for many cards, but with Talonflame, if you don't get one, you'd better hope for a mulligan. Otherwise those 4 Talonflame are useless.

 

And Greedy Dice? It is a risky new card, that allows you to draw an extra prize if you lake it as a Prize AND flip heads. I started on the math, but just got bogged down. Because you need to rely on it not being in your hand, the math takes forever. But lets assume you've got none miraculously in your hand. Then your chance of any being in the prizes...

 

1 - (49/53 * 48/52 * 47/51 * 46/50 * 45/49 * 44 / **********...

 

More than I thought. Lets round it to 0.4 (2/5). Then, it must not be the last prize (5/6), AND must flip heads (1/2) to work.

 

Thus: 2/5 * 5/6 * 1/2 = 1/6

 

Ouch. And that's assuming you run 4 and get none in your starting hand.

 

To everyone who wants to run Greedy Dice: good luck. You'll most definitely need it...

 

On a side note, untill the rotation Battle Compressor will link up well with these two cards, allowing whatever is not useful to be disposed of. Perhaps we could see Vesp-Flare-Flame in Expanded?

 

Edit: Made sacrifices to the Censor Gods.

Edited by theotherguytm
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Inspired by my own idea:

Vesp-Flareon-Talonflame

 

Talonflame is a very good card when it gets out. But when it does not, it is a waste of deck space. And even when it does work, 3 cards are left in your deck doing nothing. So, it links up therefore with Battle Compressor to discard it from the deck, and get it out of the way. But Battle Compressor is rotating from Standard. So what Expanded deck could use this combo? A deck which uses Battle Compressor already and benefits from Pokemon in the discard pile...

 

Vesp-Flareon.

 

So the idea with this deck is to try for a Talonflame start, and discard the other Talonflame. If it does not get out, it means more Vengeance fuel. My brother suggested the name...

 

Vesp-TalonFlare

 

Pokemon: 26

 

Eevee: 3

Flareon: 3

Jolteon: 1

Combee: 3

Vespiquen: 3

Talonflame: 4

Talonflame BREAK: 1

Unown: 4

Exeggcute: 2

Audino: 1

Mr Mime: 1

 

Energy: 8

 

DCE: 4

Fire: 4

 

Trainers: 26

 

Battle Compressor: 4

Puzzle of Time: 4

VS Seeker: 4

Ultra Ball: 4

Silver Bangle: 2

Life Dew: 1

Super Rod: 1

Blacksmith: 1

Professor Sycamore: 4

Hex Maniac: 1

 

A classic with a few twists. I've had to cut down on the main lines to allow for more room, and I'm playing an entirely non-EX deck. The addition of Puzzle of Time in particular allows for some sneaky tricks. By re-using Life Dew and Super Rod, my opponent my have to beat 9 Pokemon! A horrifying prospect for any opponent. Jolteon is standard anti-Mega Ray and Yveltal, exploiting their Weakness to the full. Aero Blitz in combination with good Trainers negates the need for Shaymin or Jirachi, as it can find any 2 cards you need. Including Hex Maniac, which is my reply to Archeops. Blacksmith can refuel a retreated Talonflame BREAK fro a fast Flare Blitz, or supply a quick Vengeance. Sliver Bangle allows Flare Blitz to hit the crucial 180 mark, or adds damage while this discard pile is still loading up.

 

So what are your thoughts? Please reply below...

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On the talonflame mathematics: I beg to differ.  There are four in the deck, so your chances of drawing one off a single card is 4/60, or 1/15.  But you draw seven cards, so your chance is actually (7*4)/60, or 28/60, or 7/15, almost half.  It's still nowhere near enough to be counted on, but if you run few basics, it enhances your ability to get one off a mulligan, and also reduces the number you have to take.  Unless of course I did something wrong, which I would appreciate your pointing out, but I'm pretty sure the affect of the change in deck size is countered by the possibility of getting one earlier.

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On the talonflame mathematics: I beg to differ. There are four in the deck, so your chances of drawing one off a single card is 4/60, or 1/15. But you draw seven cards, so your chance is actually (7*4)/60, or 28/60, or 7/15, almost half. It's still nowhere near enough to be counted on, but if you run few basics, it enhances your ability to get one off a mulligan, and also reduces the number you have to take. Unless of course I did something wrong, which I would appreciate your pointing out, but I'm pretty sure the affect of the change in deck size is countered by the possibility of getting one earlier.

You appear to need GCSE Maths revision. What you forgot was that while your first card does have a 4/60 chance, your second card actually has a 4/59 chance. This is called probability without replacement. Each chance is dependent on the result of the last. The change in deck size is accounted for by this method, so therefore the chance is, like I worked out, 0.4.

 

Moving on, I decided that a certain card needs attention. M Sceptile EX. It's like playing with Mega Man, except you can heal your Pokemon at will. I'm not going to post an exact list, but I'll go though some of the basics.

 

The highest damage output actually comes from Sceptile EX's Unseen Claw. With Ariados on the bench, you can quickly set up for a 130 damage smack with Poison. This is where M Sceptile comes in. With Celebi EX on the bench, or Shrine of Memories in play, you can set up Mega Sceptile to use Unseen Claw. The Mega is basically an add-on that boosts the HP of Sceptile EX, allowing it to do more pain.

 

And when Sceptile's health does run low, all you have to do is switch for another one and use the Mega's attack to accelerate your next attacker, and/or heal up injured comrades. Very few decks can compete if you use Keldeo EX to keep cycling into a different Sceptile, restoring your health continuously, as long as you have the Energy. And as you know by now, I am a massive fan of Puzzle of Time, because what else could keep the Energy flowing as easily? Pull a Energy Retrieval and Professor's Letter to grab 4 Energy. And you have to use them first to grab even more energy. Should Energy supplies run low, Energy Returner cycles the Energy back into the deck.

 

This card really can make an opponent think twice before playing a Toad deck. It can mash out the pain non-stop, heal itself quicker than a Wailord deck, and bring Special conditions to make your opponent's day. And there are so many fun variants! Virizion EX and Hypno can make things very interesting for your opponent, individually or in combination. Genesect Ex can do massive damage with the Energy Sceptile gets into play. Laserbank can replace Ariados and really needs no explanation. And Forest of Giant Plants makes any Grass type viable, so there really is no limit of options, from a Servine support line to a Vile lock variant! So what are you waiting for? Get out there and start trashing TinaToad! (I think Stop Trait allows Tina to be hit, correct me if I'm wrong.)

Edited by theotherguytm
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You appear to need GCSE Maths revision. What you forgot was that while your first card does have a 4/60 chance, your second card actually has a 4/59 chance. This is called probability without replacement. Each chance is dependent on the result of the last. The change in deck size is accounted for by this method, so therefore the chance is, like I worked out, 0.4.

I realize that the deck size reduces, but assumed (apparently incorrectly) that that effect was cancelled out by the probability of drawing talonflame on any given previous card.  Having done some ECA justification (extremely complicated arithmetic, which is basically trying to figure something out without using any methods other people have deveolped), I concede that the probability does shrink with each consecutive draw.  This is why I like decimals so much better...  Fractions always go the counterintuitive route.

Edited by SuperStone
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I worked it out by using:

 

1 - P(No Talonflame) = P(Any Talonflame)

 

IMO fractions are always neater.

 

And now, tiers. What will the top decks be next season? I decided to put together a list. Tier A are going to be the ones everyone will complaining about, Tier B are the good decks that don't quite match up to Tier A, and Tier C are the outsiders.

 

Tier A:

DarkTina-Garbo

DarkTina is so powerful it is unreal. Throw in the option to lock Abilities and it is horrifying.

Zybink

One of the few decks to match-up strongly with DarkTina, the speed and recovery of this deck makes it to be feared. Throw in the choice of Power Memory and FFB...

Mega Ray (Coul)

Fast, furious, and often overkill. You all know it by now. Also trumps Zybink.

Tier B:

DarkTina

Not as powerful without Garbodor.

Greninja

It will be there, but I think it is vastly overrated, especially with Garbotoxin EVERYWHERE.

Vileplume

It may be partnered with Jolteon EX or Zygarde EX, but I think that Garbodor is simply too powerful to make this viable.

Yveltal

It's still here!! A good alternative to DarkTina.

Tier C:

Aero Force

I can dream, can't I? Besides, if Areo was 180 for 3, it would be everywhere. And it's 120 for 2. Which is still broken. And it links perfectly with Talonflame.

Banette

With Evolution Jammer, it can shut off evolutions. It might be there, but it has a very low damage output.

Mega Ray (Dra)

With a slower meta, Dragon Ascent may have a chance to get powered. And with the amount of strong Dragons around (see my Dragon Dance deck), it has some mighty support.

M Gardevoir

As the strongest Fairy in the meta, it will take on the role of anti-Dragon, and between Xerneas BREAK and the re-printed Fairy Garden, it has some amazing support. Just not Aromatisse. Which is just as well, now the deck can use Garbotoxin!

Any other Megas

They all have enough firepower to make a lot of noise.

 

Agree or disagree? Thought of a deck I have not got on the list? Reply below!

 

Edit: I may not be posting for a couple of weeks, so please check the date before replying, as I want to keep this thread open.

Edited by theotherguytm
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Having seen the Steam Siege cards, I am making one last post. (Don't worry, I'll be back!)

 

Some of the cards really bring back memories. Especially Infernape! My favourite DP Pokemon is back!!! And it does not need the Lv.X!!! Between an upgraded Flare Blitz and the might of Flare Up (now even more powerful, but with a higher Energy discard requirement) it can massacre anything dumb enough to get in its way. Yammega reminds me of a cross between PhFo Chansey, HGSS Triumphant Yammega Prime, and with a BREAK available. Yikes. And then there's Bastiodon. Champ Buster is back.

 

Foongus is interesting, to say the least. Could it make Poke Ball viable again? And Litwick. Could it replace Battle Compressor? The new Galvantula is going straight into my Memories of Night March, and Anorith could fit into Aero Force as a anti-Lightning tech. Croagunk is the third evolveable Basic people are talking about. Its attack adds three extra damage counters on an opponent between turns if they are poisoned, adding "This effect can be applied more than once." Combine with Laserbank and Focus Sash. Trouble.

 

Out of the new BREAKs, the best is Clawitzer. Its Lock-On is fearsome, and when you add Mega Boost to Mega Turbo, almost any Mega looks viable. Xerneas BREAK plus the PrCl M Gardevoir looks like a fearsome combo. Weavile looks ridiculously powerful, making Genesect EX redundant before it had time to do more than breath. How it will fare in an environment filled with Garbotoxin is questionable. Oh and then there's Cobalion. Just when Metal looked inviable. A nice staller in M Steelix decks, or a last ditch revenge attacker. Speaking of Steelix, he (or she, no sexism here!) probably has the best type combination out of all the dual types. Because he's (or she's) a Fighting type that needs a little more damage and some solid support. Carbink. Combined with Clawitzer it could prove the surprise contender in the current format. It's Zybink with silly Energy costs and sillier damage. Oh, and how about Hydriegon in DarkTina decks as a last-resort attacker? Stupid damage levels inbound.

 

On the Trainer side while Special Charge is mighty, it pales into insignificance compared to the impact Pokemon Ranger and Ninja Boy will have on the format. Switch Zygarde for a throwaway to stop your opponent taking two Prizes, or drop Shaymin back for Trubbish ready to evolve into Garbodor. And the Ranger will eliminate the power of Tina, and make TinaToad in Expanded suffer.

 

That's all I have time for now, so please post your responses below, but check the date first. I am intending to return to this topic in a few weeks, so I don't want it closed. That's all for now.

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  • 3 weeks later...

As promised, I am back.

 

*** happened at Worlds???

 

NM was supposed to win and finally prove the meta is not EX-based once and for all! And the EXs won. ****. Never mind, there were some very promising ideas coming though that could make my tiering list for next season look very stupid. But M Audino?? REALLY?????? A card that hopeless wins Worlds?? Either someone got very lucky, the entire community missed the best NM counter ever, or this just shows how stupid and beginnerish I am. Probably all three. But, according to the meta, the VGC was just as messed-up (Where was the Big 7/8? How on Earth or anywhere else did Kyo/Ray win??). The world has clearly gone mad in my absence.

 

Anyway, in order to bring some sense of normality to proceedings, I now move on to doing the same thing I did after US Nationals:

 

M Audino: 1 (Masters Champion)

Greninjaflame: 3 (Masters Runner-up)

TrenVileSteel and so on thing: 1

Vesp-Yveltal: 1

Metal Tools: 2

NM: 6

Vesp-Yanmega: 1 (Senior Champion)

Toad Bats: 1 (Senior Runner-up)

Tren BREAK: 3 (Junior Runner-up)

Mega Man: 1

DarkTina-Garbo: 1 (Junior Champion)

DarkTina: 3

 

The most striking thing is that each of the Division Champions used a deck none of his potential Top 8 opponents copied. Or even anyone from the any other age group. So the message is clear: if you want to be the best, you have to build the deck no-one else expects, and it has to be your idea. If anyone else copies you, you lose the element of surprise. Even if you are building a meta, mainstream deck, try and put your own twist on it. None of the NM players had the same decklists, and they were all unique in their own way.

 

Perhaps the most foreboding thing for next season is that DarkTina is already rampant. Neither Zybink or Mega Ray, the other Tier A decks, made an impact. And perhaps Greninja is stronger than I anticipated, especially with Talonflame. But its prowess against Garbotoxin without Tool discards is perhaps debatable. Even so, this new variant needs some attention. Alright, a lot of attention. I did say that Aero Blitz is every bit as good as Shaymin EX and Octillery, and thus am I proven right about something at least.

 

So, what are your thoughts on the Worlds results? We are back to our 'regularly programmed schedule', as they used to say, so please reply with you thoughts on this or anything else. I will return with more, revised, predictions about next season's meta. Until then...

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I've changed my mind, so I'll post my newest and dumbest idea instead of focusing on the meta. I call it the 'Weakness Spammer.'

Pokemon: 26

Bisharp StSi 4
Pawniard StSi 4
Eevee AnOr 3
Jolteon AnOr 1
Vaporeon AnOr 1
Flareon AnOr 1
Vesp' AnOr 2
Combee AnOr 2
Unown AnOr 4
Klefki StSi 4

Energy: 8

Basic Darkness 8

Trainers: 26

Professor Sycamore: 4
N: 2
Wally: 2
Lysandre: 1
VS Seeker: 4
Ultra Ball: 4
Puzzle of Time: 4
Sky Field: 2
Assault Vest: 2
Evosoda: 1

The idea here is very simple. Give Bisharp and Vesp' as many types as possible using the Abilities of the Eeveelutions, and then strike opponents for Weakness. Bisharp is in particular designed for this task, having two types already that don't overlap the Abilities, and two attacks perfect for the job. Mach Claw ignores Resistance, so should any of its types give it a downside, Mach Claw does 60 surefire damage for 2 Energy. With Weakness, that's 120: a massive hit for 2 Energy. But unlike Aero, Bisharp has another gear. Should any allies hit the dust Retaliate does 90 damage for 1 Energy. With Weakness, that's 180-a 1HKO!

You all know Vesp by now. Without Battle Compressor, it loses some of its sting. But using it as a late-game finisher allows it to build up more. And with Steam Siege, it has a new companion: Klefki! It can attach itself to a Pokemon to prevent damage done to its equipped partner by Megas for 1 turn, and then discard itself. And it gets better! If you're not against Megas, you can attach Klefki to Klefki, and then using the other Kelfki's Ability discards any other cards attached to it, like Klefki! In this way you get rid of several at once! Throw in the mass of types it now has and you have a most destructive weapon.

So while this deck is slow, it does speed up very fast. It can cause endless problems for many opponents simply by hitting Weakness over and over. So what do you think? Have you any of your own suggestions? Be sure to reply, and I will be back with my other new idea soon!

Edited by theotherguytm
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And another bright idea. I remember when Sabledonk was the best deck around. Ouch. And Ouch again. So, this is my Donk deck for the current format. For those who don't know, a Donk deck aims to win T1 by 1HKOing a lone opponent. With the stupid HP EXs have and the restrictions on attacking first, it's a lot harder now to pull this off than when Sableye guaranteed the first turn. But Volcanion EX gives this opportunity to try. Using Steam Up, any Basic Fire Pokemon has a good chance of dishing out a 1HKO with enough Energy. And there is a lot of Basic Fire types. I am setting this up for Expanded to use Blacksmith, but it could work in Standard.

 

Volcanion Eruption

 

Pokemon: 10

 

Flareon EX: 4

Volcanion EX: 2

Volcanion: 1

Shaymin EX: 3

 

Energy: 10

 

Fire: 10

 

Trainers: 40

 

Ultra Ball: 4

VS Seeker: 3

Max Elixir: 4

Puzzle Of Time: 4

Trainer's Mail: 4

Battle Compressor: 3

Buddy-Buddy Rescue: 1

Random Receiver: 1

Startling Megaphone: 1

Town Map: 1

Muscle Band: 4

Blacksmith: 4

Pokemon Ranger: 2

Ninja Boy: 1

Frozen City: 2

Scoop Up Cyclone: 1

 

This deck is designed to be fast. To deck itself out on Turn 5. But the plan is to kill the game before that happens. Or at least be four prizes in front. Which means auto-loss to the occasional Bunnelby/Durant deck. Ah well, who plays mill anymore? (Or Donk to be honest.)

 

Flareon EX is the perfect Pokemon for the task of 1HKOing everything, being very similar to Keldeo EX. Think Archie's Blastoise. But instead of Deluge, I'm using Max Elixir and Blacksmith. The key is that one can only supply the Bench, the other can only work with discarded Energy. The first problem is negated by Flareon's Flash Fire Ability, which moves any Energy in play to it as often as you want. The other solution is twofold. First, Battle Compressor can discard it from the deck, and Ultra Ball from the hand in a emergency. But Volcanion EX's Steam Up allows Fire Energy to be discarded from the hand to power up your Basic Fire types. So Steam Up boosts damage and readies Blacksmith at the same time. Yikes.

 

Volcanion EX can also start killing stuff in a hurry as well. Anything with Water Weakness is in huge trouble when Volcanic Heat hits. The only problem is that it can't attack next turn. Well, that's what Pokemon Ranger is for. A few Volcanic Heats in quick succession put opponents to bed while any sneaky ToadTina locks get removed. While the regular Volcanion kills Safeguarders with Steam Artillery. And the non-EX is perfectly capable of insane damage to EXs once Steam Up gets flying. Or supplying the Bench with even more discarded Energy. And of course Shaymin EX makes things so much faster.

 

Looking at the Trainer list, it's easy to see how this deck will self-destruct if it fails to get 3 EX KOs or doesn't force Bench-out. So many Items, the deck looks like it belongs in a Fast and Furious movie. One strange choice is Frozen City. I chose because it forces your opponent not to play Energy onto damaged Pokemon. My deck is not so badly affected by this, as it relies largely on Energy acceleration, which is unaffected. Another strange choice is Scoop Up Cyclone over Computer Search. This is due to the increased versatility of the card, as I can use it for draw if Shaymin EX is on the Bench, or as a Switch, or even to fully heal a Pokemon.

 

To play this deck in next year's Standard, simply replace Frozen City with Scorched Earth, Muscle Band with FFB, and remove Blacksmith, Battle Compressor, Scoop Up Cyclone, and Startling Megaphone. Then try and find replacements for them, Blacksmith in particular.

 

Overall, this deck has the potential to do massive damage to anyone in its way. Few decks have the speed to set up without losing several key players to this deck's furious assault. Even should they start to fight back, most of the time the surprise of being smashed on T1 combined with the overpowered Pokemon in play should win the day.

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And now back to the meta. I have a new idea I call "Ray-lock". It is based around the Barbaracle from Fates Collide. It prevents your opponent playing Special Energy (Strong and Double Dragon in particular) as long as you have a Stadium in play. Mega Ray regularly uses Ninetales and its Barrier Shrine Ability, which prevents both players playing Stadiums. The synergy is clear. Just beware Delinquent.

Mega Ray-Lock

Pokemon: 21

Rayquaza EX RoSk 3
M Rayquaza EX RoSk 3
Shaymin EX RoSk 4
Hoopa EX AnOr 1
Binacle **** 2
Barbaracle **** 1
Vulpix PrCl 2
Ninetales PrCl 1
Zorua BrTh 2
Zoroark BrTh 2

Energy: 8

DOC: 4
Dark: 4

Trainers: 31

Ultra Ball 4
VS Seeker 4
Puzzle of Time 4
Mega Turbo 3
Rayquaza Spirit Link 3
Float Stone 1
Professor Sycamore 4
Winona 2
Lysandre 1
Hex Maniac 1
Sky Field 4

You get the picture. In short: Mega Ray, but with Special Energy lock. Very disruptive to the other Tier A decks, but with some weakness to Garbodor. Simple and easy to try!

Other Mega Ray partners in crime:

Raichu: a non-EX attacker, especially good at mirror matches and VS Talonflame.
Jolteon EX: for when you just can't STAND DarkTina any more.
Garbodor: Because everyone is using it. Why should Ray miss out on the fun?
Yammega: For those that feel the need to trash Zybink and Greninja.
M Gardevoir EX StSi: For when you MUST have the last shot and you need to save your Shaymins.
Altaria: Standard. Particularly for Raichu and Jolteon ( EX or not)

That's all for now. I'll be back with Zybink's little friends, and I'll introduce you to them before they start killing DarkTina.

Edited by theotherguytm
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So... Zybink. Where to start? The amount of damage it can do in one attack is breathtaking. But I'll give some ideas as to how this deck can be made.

 

One idea is use Weavile from Steam Siege. it gives the deck a lot greater flexibility. As in, switch FFB for Power Memory for a fast KO, then switch that for a Float Stone to bring Carbink up front to reload. It's a simple combo that works very nicely in this deck that can take advantage of a lot of Tools. Because the main problem with Power Memory is it does one big hit, then it leaves Zygarde EX without a Tool effectively, unless you reload fast. With Weavile, you can switch in another Tool straight away.

 

Although Zybink is based around Safeguard Carbink and Zygarde EX, there are alternative options. The other Carbink has the Energy Keeper Ability that stops Basic Energy from being knocked off your Basic Pokemon. Although it does not affect Carbink BREAK or Strong Energy, this can give Team Flare Grunt and Crushing Hammer a lot less uses against this deck. And the Zygarde non-EXs are worth a look. Aura Break prevents Fairy or Dark types attacking next turn. It can be crippling, but only against certain opponents. The other one though is worth including. Its first attack is mere 30 for 2. Nothing special, but can be boosted up, and prevents retreat from the kill-shot: 120 for 3. Yikes. With three Strong Energy, that's a major 1HKO at the cost of some Bench damage. A seriously scary non-EX attacker. Fun in mirror matches if you don't want to go Carbink VS Carbink.

 

And then there are the Trainers. Out of all the decks, this can make the best use of Ninja Boy once it is fixed. Switch Zygarde EX for Carbink and frustrate opposing EXs. Swap a benched Shaymin EX for a Carbink ready to evolve, and re-use that Shaymin. The combinations are endless. Then of course there are the Tools as mentioned, but the real killer are the Stadiums available. The best fit is Scorched Earth, but if you are intending to beat Mega Ray you'll need a little more fun in this department. My choice is to Lysandre a Shaymin up front, and then play Parallel City. That way, they'll have to discard 5 Pokemon from their Bench (if you replaced Sky Field) and they can't just ditch all their Shaymins. Even If they do, there's still a target up front. But what about Ninetales? Hex Maniac. You'll need to be careful, as it also ditches Safeguard and Energy Keeper, but is done right, it should give you the window you need, albeit minus Lysandre. It might even end up locking Parallel City in play if your opponent can't find another Sky Field. But even it he or she does, then it will take a while to fill the massive space on the Bench again. And all those discarded Pokemon will take while to replace.

 

So Zybink can cause massive problems for any deck with speed, damage output and Safeguard. It has all the makings of an overwhelming deck, and can destroy anything put in front of it by stupid opponents. So what do you think? Please, Please Reply, and give whatever thoughts you have, on any of my posts. Until next time, so long.

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And now, I bring you the latest in Mega Evolution firepower:

 

M Steelix EX!

 

Grand Canyon Axe

 

Pokemon 15

 

3 Steelix EX

3 M Steelix EX

2 Carbink (Safe)

2 Carbink BREAK

2 Clauncher

2 Clawziter

1 Mr. Mime PrCl

 

Energy 13

 

DOC 4

Basic Metal 6

Strong 4

 

Trainers 30

 

Professor Sycamore 4

N 2

Lysandre 1

Pokemon Ranger 1

Ninja Boy 1

VS Seeker 4

Ultra Ball 4

Puzzle Of Time 4

Mega Turbo 3

Max Elixir 2

Steelix Spirit Link 3

Float Stone 2

 

This deck is slllooooooowwwwww. But it's all worth it when Canyon Axe hits, doing a base 160 damage and 10 damage to the entire Bench. But it requires 5 Energy to use. So how to use it...

 

This deck features every method of Energy acceleration available to use Canyon Axe. Energy Gift from Carbink BREAK, Mega Boost Ability from Clawziter, and the Mega Turbo and Max Elixir Items. But all this requires a strange set of Energy cards in the deck. Mega Turbo and Max Elixir work with Basic Energy, Energy Gift needs any Fighting Energy, and Mega Boost needs Special Energy. The thing is, although Canyon Axe requires 5 Energy to use, it only requires that one of them be Metal. The rest are whatever you want. So, ideally you would use 2 DOC. But Canyon Axe needs a tiny damage bump to hit the magic 180 mark, so Carbink BREAK and Clawziter can supply Strong Energy to do that. Then you just add on Mega Turbo (If Mega Evolved) or Max Elixir (If Basic and Benched) to add on Metal to complete the picture. And then use Puzzle of Time to reload and start preparing your back-up.

 

The only other strange choice in this deck is Mr. Mime. I chose it for its Trick attack that switches Tools from a player's Pokemon to another of his/her/your Pokemon. There are some nasty tricks to be played with this. Like moving a Steelix Spirit Link from a Evolved Steelix to a Basic, ready to be re-used. Or moving your opponent's Float Stone to a Pokemon with free Retreat. Or even dropping your opponent's Spirit Link from a Basic EX to a non-EX, or the wrong EX. This can also be used to disable Garbotoxin. It's a bit of a one-trick Ponyta, as it were, but what a trick!

 

So what do you think? Please reply as normal (or don't as normal), and I'll see you soon.

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666 views. I hope that's a coincidence.

 

Ace Spec cards are a must for anyone playing Legacy or Expanded. You can have one Ace Spec from a list of 13, and only one copy of that card. The generally fall into 3 categories: Upgraded cards (better versions of normal cards), Super cards (that have a unique effect) and Specific Tools that only work for one Pokemon EX.

 

But which are the best to use? I ranked them all in order from best to worst.

 

1. Computer Search (upgraded card)

The best Ace Spec in existence, with good reason. When you take Ultra Ball, a card that most decks run 4 of, give a new name, and allow it to search for any card in the deck, the results are predictable. The go-to for decks that don't need a specific Ace for their strategy.

 

2. Life Dew (super card, Tool)

This is a God-send for non-EX decks. Preventing your opponent taking a prize card for a KO, especially in a aggressive deck like NM or Vesp-Flare, can be a game-changer. If a deck is not using Computer Search, its normally this card's fault.

 

3. Rock Guard (upgraded card, Tool)

Think Bursting Balloon. But it does not get discarded. Yikes. This is the bane of NM, and the core of several Seismitoad decks. Perfect for those with a low damage output.

 

4. Dowsing Machine (super card)

Similar to Computer Search, but instead limited to Trainers in the discard pile. It's excellent for re-using powerful Items like Mega Turbo or Trainer's Mail, but compared to Computer Search it is a bit limp.

 

5. Scoop Up Cyclone (upgraded card)

Super Scoop Up, but minus the coin flip. Massive healing and tactical power, but no contribution to draw (unless you pick up a Shaymin).

 

6. Scramble Switch (upgraded card)

Switch, with a bunch of Energy Switches for any Energy from the old Active to the new one. Very useful in the heat of battle, not so good when trying to set up.

 

7. G Booster (specific tool)

The attack of all attacks that turns VirGen from a fast, tactical deck, to a massive hitting deck. No good in any other setup, but in VirGen it is a must-have.

 

8. Gold Potion (upgraded card)

A brilliant card on paper. No other healing card can match it, with the exception of Max Potion, which requires discards. But the very fact that it is an Ace Spec holds it back. It's good, but not next to the other Aces.

 

9. Victory Piece (specific tool)

Negates Victini EX's attack cost, allowing it to attack for free. Turbo Energise takes full advantage of that, attaching 2 Basic Energy cards from your deck to your Bench. Intensifying Burn is meh, however, and its 110 HP is highly suspect.

 

10. Crystal Wall (specific tool)

300HP. On paper, unbeatable. But with attacks as mediocre as Black Kyurem EX's, very beatable. Nice, but with all the other EXs out there screaming for attention, this one commands very little attention, and thus does the Ace Spec command as little.

 

11. Crystal Edge (specific tool)

Very similar story here. But this one sits below its contemporary for one reason: White Kyurem EX does not need extra damage. Ah.

 

12. G Scope (specific tool)

This card has all the disadvantages of its card type, as it is only usable in VirGen decks. But it has to also compete with G Booster. You can't have both, and players (quite rightly) go for G Booster.

 

13. Master Ball (upgraded card)

You would think that when they made a card baring the name of the most powerful and iconic Items in existence, they would make it good. But compared to the restriction-less Ultra Ball, this card is horrifyingly bad. Removing the coin flip worked for Scoop Up Cyclone, but Scoop Up Cyclone didn't have to contend with Ultra Ball. And when they released a Supporter similar to Scoop Up Cyclone in XY (AZ) they made it weaker. Trevor is exactly the same as Master Ball. which is why this card rightly belongs at the bottom of this list.

 

Agree? Disagree? Share your thoughts as normal, and I'll be back soon.

Edited by theotherguytm
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Very accurate to my own observations.  I might put dowsing machine is second, but otherwise I think you're right on.

If you were allowed 2 Ace Specs a deck, I would put Dowsing Machine 2nd, and G Scope and Gold Potion would sky-rocket up the ranks. But you're allowed one. Rock Guard and Life Dew are used for tactics, but Dowsing Machine and Computer Search are mostly draw. So, given the choice between those two, Computer Search is the pick. Same reason G Scope is not higher.

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And now for something completely different. Again. M Gardevoir EX is doing quite well for itself. Or rather, the PrCl one is with the StSi one as support. But what if you could focus a deck on Despair Ray. Well...

Depth of Despair (Expanded)

Pokemon 22

4 Gardevoir EX StSi
4 M Gardevoir EX StSi
4 Exeggcute BW:PF
4 Ho-Oh EX BW:DE
4 Shaymin EX RoSk
2 Hoopa EX AnOr

Energy 7

7 Basic Fairy

Trainers 31
3 VS Seeker
3 Gardevoir Spirit Link
4 Trainer's Mail
3 Battle Compressor
4 Ultra Ball
1 Energy Reset
2 Revive
4 Sky Field
4 Professor Sycamore
1 Lysandre
1 Pokemon Fan Club
1 Computer Search

This is the extreme case. The entire deck is focused on Despair Ray landing big figures every turn. There is no middle ground for this deck. Either it fires and wins, or misfires and loses. And every Pokemon that does not have an attack called Despair Ray is discard material.

The support Pokemon in this deck are rather simple. Shaymin EX and Hoopa EX to access your cards, and Ho-Oh EX and Exeggcute to be discarded before retrieving themselves. In particular, Exeggcute allows for 0 cost Ultra Ball and Computer Search, and Ho-Oh EX, despite only being half as reliable, in combination with Energy Reset, proves an effective Energy recovery unit. Shaymin EX and Hoopa EX are standard in many decks, but they link up with Despair Ray in particular, as they can be quickly discarded once played, leaving few Lysandre targets and reducing the damage of attacks like Mind Jack and Fight Alone.

So this deck has a lot of firepower. But could it actually work? As usual please, reply to any of my posts with your own thoughts. No person's opinion is as important as your own opinion when it comes to preferences, and no reply is invalid (alright, almost none).

Edited by theotherguytm
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Hello again. And now for the latest in anti-meta. A deck designed to mill Shaymins that therefore has a chance to beat any deck.

 

The Stage 1 Toolbox

 

Pokemon 20

 

4 Zorua

4 Zoroark

1 Zoroark BREAK

2 Bitzle

2 Zebstrika

2 ‎Remoraid

2 Octillery

1 Trubbish

1 Garbodor

1 Jolteon EX

 

Energy 8

 

2 Basic Lightning

2 Basic Dark

4 DOC

 

Trainers 32

 

3 VS Seeker

4 Puzzle of Time

3 Buddy-Buddy Rescue

3 Captivating Lure Pokepuff

4 Ultra Ball

1 Special Charge

2 Float Stone

2 Silent Lab

4 Professor Sycamore

2 Brigette

2 Wally

2 Lysandre

 

This deck is designed as a counter-all. It can excel against almost any opposing decks. The simple reason is that the deck targets Shaymin EX. A simple target used in most decks. Lysandre drags it up front, Zoroark or Zebstrika KOs Shaymin for two prizes, Buddy-Buddy Rescue forces your opponent to add Shaymin back to his hand and Captivating Lure Pokepuff forces it back to the bench. Simple. What can go wrong? (Insert error here.)

 

But what about Greninja? It runs no Shaymin or Hoopa. True, but it does run Talonflame, and a quick Wally and Crashing Bolt delivers a speedy demise. If that fails, Garbotoxin ensures a auto-win.

 

Or what about Glaceon? If it attacks, there is no way to damage it. Wrong! 2 simple solutions. Either Lysandre out a different Pokemon, or use Jolteon EX. If your opponent tries to use his own Jolteon, or deploys a Safeguarder, Zebstrika's Zap Zone allows Jolteon to attack straight though it, or Zoroark's Stand In switches back to Evolved Pokemon.

 

So could this deck work? Please, please add your thoughts on this or anything else.

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That zebstrika is a Shaymin assassin.  It definitely has huge potential.  Zoroark relies more heavily on your opponent, and so is more situational.  It seems to me that 3-3 and 3-3-1 would make more sense.  2 lydsandre is a good baseline (I can't believe I'm saying this) but you might even want three.  Or how about pokemon catcher?  Too risky?  The last hole I see is the huge fighting weakness.  A single policy would be sufficient, as would a Glaceon.  Because you never know when you'll run into a stray Medicham, Garchomp, or Primal Groudon deck, it's best to not rely on Jolteon shutting the weakness down.

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That zebstrika is a Shaymin assassin. It definitely has huge potential. Zoroark relies more heavily on your opponent, and so is more situational. It seems to me that 3-3 and 3-3-1 would make more sense. 2 lydsandre is a good baseline (I can't believe I'm saying this) but you might even want three. Or how about pokemon catcher? Too risky? The last hole I see is the huge fighting weakness. A single policy would be sufficient, as would a Glaceon. Because you never know when you'll run into a stray Medicham, Garchomp, or Primal Groudon deck, it's best to not rely on Jolteon shutting the weakness down.

Zebstrika I thought would be a star of the new format. It 1HKOs Mega Ray and Talonflame even if Clear Humming is being used.

 

Captivating Lure Pokepuff does wonders to make Mind Jack work, especially if you can pull in Basics your opponent does not want or need (2nd Trubbish/‎Remoraid). Pokemon Catcher is only useful if Lysandre is not available, or you need to play another supporter. It's a bit too unreliable, and yes, Lysandre #3 would solve problem 1.

 

And thanks for spotting the Fighting Weakness, hadn't even thought about that. Medicham is a concern and there's also Carbink BREAK, but Garchomp lost a lot when Korrina went, therefore is not such a huge issue, and Primal Groudon 1HKO's everything whether you have Weakness or not. So it's not worth mucking around with Glaceon's Water requirements, but a policy would work great.

 

Moving on, everyone can make decks that win. But I made a deck designed to lose by decking itself out, just for a laugh. This is my test against the CPU:

 

Game Log Output Begins Here:

 

1. It is now theotherguytm's turn (Turn #1).

2. theotherguytm drew Fire Energy.

3. Grayson drew a card.

4. theotherguytm drew Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear.

5. Grayson drew a card.

6. theotherguytm drew Roggenrola. (BW:EP)

7. Grayson drew a card.

8. theotherguytm drew Trainers' Mail.

9. Grayson drew a card.

10. theotherguytm drew Fire Energy.

11. Grayson drew a card.

12. theotherguytm drew Gigalith. (BW:EP)

13. Grayson drew a card.

14. theotherguytm drew Korrina.

15. Grayson drew a card.

16. Roggenrola became theotherguytm's new Active Pokémon.

 

17. theotherguytm drew Great Ball.

18. theotherguytm played Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear.

19. theotherguytm played Korrina.

20. theotherguytm drew Boldore. (BW:EP)

21. theotherguytm drew Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear.

22. theotherguytm played Battle Compressor Team Flare Gear.

23. theotherguytm played Trainers' Mail.

24. theotherguytm drew Skyla.

25. theotherguytm played Great Ball.

26. It is now Grayson's turn (Turn #2).

...

 

36. It is now theotherguytm's turn (Turn #3).

37. theotherguytm drew Lass's Special.

38. Boldore became theotherguytm's new Active Pokémon.

39. theotherguytm's Roggenrola evolved into Boldore.

40. theotherguytm played Lass's Special.

41. theotherguytm drew Professor Sycamore.

42. theotherguytm drew Professor Sycamore.

43. It is now Grayson's turn (Turn #4).

...

 

60. It is now theotherguytm's turn (Turn #5).

61. theotherguytm drew Scorched Earth.

62. Gigalith became theotherguytm's new Active Pokémon.

63. theotherguytm's Boldore evolved into Gigalith.

64. theotherguytm played Scorched Earth.

65. theotherguytm played Skyla.

66. theotherguytm drew Professor's Letter.

67. theotherguytm played Professor's Letter.

68. theotherguytm drew Fighting Energy.

69. theotherguytm drew Fire Energy.

70. theotherguytm attached a Fighting Energy to Gigalith.

71. theotherguytm played Scorched Earth.

72. theotherguytm drew Trainers' Mail.

73. theotherguytm drew Random Receiver.

74. theotherguytm played Random Receiver.

75. theotherguytm drew Professor Sycamore.

76. theotherguytm played Trainers' Mail.

77. theotherguytm drew Great Ball.

78. theotherguytm's Gigalith used its Shear attack. (Key, as it discards 5 cards from your deck)

79. It is now Grayson's turn (Turn #6).

...

 

84. It is now theotherguytm's turn (Turn #7).

85. theotherguytm drew Random Receiver.

86. theotherguytm played Random Receiver.

87. theotherguytm drew Lass's Special.

88. theotherguytm played Lass's Special.

89. theotherguytm drew Ultra Ball.

90. theotherguytm drew VS Seeker.

91. theotherguytm drew Professor's Letter.

92. theotherguytm played Scorched Earth.

93. theotherguytm drew Professor Sycamore.

94. theotherguytm drew Acro Bike.

95. theotherguytm played Acro Bike.

96. theotherguytm drew Ultra Ball.

97. theotherguytm played Ultra Ball.

98. theotherguytm played Ultra Ball.

99. theotherguytm played VS Seeker.

100. theotherguytm's Gigalith used its Shear attack.

101. It is now Grayson's turn (Turn #8).

...

 

108. It is now theotherguytm's turn (Turn #9).

109. theotherguytm drew Great Ball.

110. theotherguytm played Scorched Earth.

111. theotherguytm drew Roller Skates.

112. theotherguytm drew Fiery Torch.

113. theotherguytm played Great Ball.

114. theotherguytm played Skyla.

115. theotherguytm drew Acro Bike.

116. theotherguytm played Acro Bike.

117. theotherguytm drew Fiery Torch.

118. theotherguytm played Roller Skates.

119. theotherguytm flipped 1 coin(s), resulting in 0 heads and 1 tails, for Roller Skates.

120. theotherguytm's Gigalith used its Shear attack.

121. It is now Grayson's turn (Turn #10).

...

 

125. It is now theotherguytm's turn ( Ran out of cards. )

 

I'll save my most recent test for next time. Until, then reply as normal and have your say.

Edited by theotherguytm
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"And now for something completely different."

 

The new Basic decks are quite fun to play. But are they a patch on the old ones?

 

Born Of Fire

 

In Short: It's Born of Fire alright, but the fire seems to have damaged it a bit.

 

+ Very tough Pokemon.

+ Burning Energy keeps Arcanine and Rapidash going.

+ Lysandre, Sycamore and Judge. No more needs saying.

+ Ninetales can destroy some decks with its Ability.

- Inconsistent in spite of good Supporters.

- No clear centre-point.

- Low damage output.

 

Overall:

This deck is quite effective in play, and will doubtless tear through many theme decks. But you can't help feeling it's missing something, in spite of the excellent support-ah. That's it. There's a lot of good support, but there's nothing to support. The deck needs a Delphox, a Gyarados, a Chesnaught, something to focus on that will pull the deck through tough games. And compared to Basic Red (which, in contrast, is dependant on that Delphox and needed better support), it needs Blacksmith badly. Weakness to Hidden Depths, even with that Weakness Policy, is a crippling issue, and it does not have a Grass deck to prey on like Basic Red did. And it uses Steven. Nothing can be forgiven for that.

 

Hidden Depths

 

In Short: Basic Blue 2.0. Everybody RUN!

 

+ Gyarados and Articuno are back.

+ They even bought their AT friends with them.

+ N and Pokemon Catcher. Born of Fire is so dead.

+ No pointless Stage 2s, just full-on PAIN!

+ Good support in Seaking and Dewgong, the latter in particular.

- Well, um... You really should start running.

 

Overall:

Well, here it is. You wanted OPness, here it is. The deck seems to be a mix between short, sharp support attacks and huge, slow build-up play, in the case of Dewgong and the Articunos, both in one card. As if Basic Blue was not hard enough to beat, they got rid of the slow, weak Greninja and Walrein lines and replaced them with Seaking and Dewgong to disrupt and destroy while Gyarados and Articuno lazily warm up. That does not mean they are restricted to support. Build up Dewgong and it can win games on its own. And if you know how to use Max Potion and Healing Scarf, Seaking is a stupidly broken 1-Energy hitter. It even includes Wally to get you slaughtering as fast as possible, and Splash Energy to keep you going. They thought of everything. Basic Blue is now obsolete, Born of Fire and Basic Red are invalid, and even the mighty Basic Green will struggle against this type of power.

 

Crushing Current

 

In Short: Pika!

 

+ Sky Field, Raichu and Zapdos are the most dangerous trio outside Gyarados and the Articunos.

+ Hits Gyarados and Seaking for weakness.

+ Lots of Colourless Pokemon and some DOC.

+ Who doesn't like a Pikachu deck?

- Ternio and Shauna are hardly priceless Supporters.

- Electrode and Fearow aren't particularly brilliant support Pokemon either.

 

Overall:

Probably the best-equipped deck to handle Hidden Depths by the simple means of Weakness. A reliance on Sky Field does give Born of Fire a fighting chance, but the toughest part about facing this deck is it is so hard to counter. It can change from Fighting Weakness to Resistance in seconds, and the deck is loading with low Retreat Costs. The most interesting part is the mirror matches. Time your Sky Field right or die. Zapdos v Zapdos, both with Weakness to each other. This deck is perhaps the least consistent, but however it turns out, it's definitely an improvement over Basic Yellow.

 

So IMO, these decks made up of Gen 1 Pokemon just ruined my hopes of newb-farming with Basic Green. But what are your thoughts? Agree with my opinion? Disagree? Reply to this or anything else and have your say!

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"And now for something completely different."

 

The new Basic decks are quite fun to play. But are they a patch on the old ones?

 

Born Of Fire

 

In Short: It's Born of Fire alright, but the fire seems to have damaged it a bit.

 

+ Very tough Pokemon.

+ Burning Energy keeps Arcanine and Rapidash going.

+ Lysandre, Sycamore and Judge. No more needs saying.

+ Ninetales can destroy some decks with its Ability.

- Inconsistent in spite of good Supporters.

- No clear centre-point.

- Low damage output.

 

Overall:

This deck is quite effective in play, and will doubtless tear through many theme decks. But you can't help feeling it's missing something, in spite of the excellent support-ah. That's it. There's a lot of good support, but there's nothing to support. The deck needs a Delphox, a Gyarados, a Chesnaught, something to focus on that will pull the deck through tough games. And compared to Basic Red (which, in contrast, is dependant on that Delphox and needed better support), it needs Blacksmith badly. Weakness to Hidden Depths, even with that Weakness Policy, is a crippling issue, and it does not have a Grass deck to prey on like Basic Red did. And it uses Steven. Nothing can be forgiven for that.

 

Hidden Depths

 

In Short: Basic Blue 2.0. Everybody RUN!

 

+ Gyarados and Articuno are back.

+ They even bought their AT friends with them.

+ N and Pokemon Catcher. Born of Fire is so dead.

+ No pointless Stage 2s, just full-on PAIN!

+ Good support in Seaking and Dewgong, the latter in particular.

- Well, um... You really should start running.

 

Overall:

Well, here it is. You wanted OPness, here it is. The deck seems to be a mix between short, sharp support attacks and huge, slow build-up play, in the case of Dewgong and the Articunos, both in one card. As if Basic Blue was not hard enough to beat, they got rid of the slow, weak Greninja and Walrein lines and replaced them with Seaking and Dewgong to disrupt and destroy while Gyarados and Articuno lazily warm up. That does not mean they are restricted to support. Build up Dewgong and it can win games on its own. And if you know how to use Max Potion and Healing Scarf, Seaking is a stupidly broken 1-Energy hitter. It even includes Wally to get you slaughtering as fast as possible, and Splash Energy to keep you going. They thought of everything. Basic Blue is now obsolete, Born of Fire and Basic Red are invalid, and even the mighty Basic Green will struggle against this type of power.

 

Crushing Current

 

In Short: Pika!

 

+ Sky Field, Raichu and Zapdos are the most dangerous trio outside Gyarados and the Articunos.

+ Hits Gyarados and Seaking for weakness.

+ Lots of Colourless Pokemon and some DOC.

+ Who doesn't like a Pikachu deck?

- Ternio and Shauna are hardly priceless Supporters.

- Electrode and Fearow aren't particularly brilliant support Pokemon either.

 

Overall:

Probably the best-equipped deck to handle Hidden Depths by the simple means of Weakness. A reliance on Sky Field does give Born of Fire a fighting chance, but the toughest part about facing this deck is it is so hard to counter. It can change from Fighting Weakness to Resistance in seconds, and the deck is loading with low Retreat Costs. The most interesting part is the mirror matches. Time your Sky Field right or die. Zapdos v Zapdos, both with Weakness to each other. This deck is perhaps the least consistent, but however it turns out, it's definitely an improvement over Basic Yellow.

 

So IMO, these decks made up of Gen 1 Pokemon just ruined my hopes of newb-farming with Basic Green. But what are your thoughts? Agree with my opinion? Disagree? Reply to this or anything else and have your say!

sea king is weak to grass

 

and ( Electrode and Fearow aren't particularly brilliant support Pokemon either.)

did you just say electrode is not a good support?? electrode is one of the best support pokemons dont underrate him he attack for free since you can move energys from him

​and this deck is fast and hard compare to how hidden depth is slow and count on luck of coins 

 

also this deck have many drawing cards (tierno and shuana are not bad for theme decks as you dont use things like shaymin ex) while hidden have 3  draw cards

 

i would say crushing current is the new basic green deck 

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Man.. Dewgong is just so annoying to face. And some newbs have taken the liberty to take it outside theme too.

 

Though one problem with Hidden Depths is that nearly everyone has a heavy retreat cost without Dodrio (which kinds sucks as an attacker). And the main attackers not named Seaking take forever to charge up.

 

I'm currently using Crushing Current to newb farm Mental Might users (I still face a lot of them, some guests) cuz it's the fastest. 120 damage for 3 energy on a basic is priceless even with the bench recoil.

 

I tried Hidden Depths and yeah... like the poster above just said, it is pretty slow despite being a good theme deck in general.

 

And.. sigh... fire gets the short straw once again.

Edited by BowserLuigi
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sea king is weak to grass

 

and ( Electrode and Fearow aren't particularly brilliant support Pokemon either.)

did you just say electrode is not a good support?? electrode is one of the best support pokemons dont underrate him he attack for free since you can move energys from him

​and this deck is fast and hard compare to how hidden depth is slow and count on luck of coins 

 

also this deck have many drawing cards (tierno and shuana are not bad for theme decks as you dont use things like shaymin ex) while hidden have 3  draw cards

 

i would say crushing current is the new basic green deck 

I stand corrected on Seaking.

 

Electrode is hopeless. Continuous Tumble is unreliable at best, and Energy Bomb does only 70 damage for 3. The Energy moving is a nice one-shot-wonder trick, if you get the chance to use it.

 

The problem is, Hidden Depths does not really depend on coins if you play it right. Even 4 tails (1/16 chance) on Aqua Tail is still a 1HKO on anything without triple-figure health. Tri Edge and Thrash, more chancy, agreed, but if either of those attacks have a good run, nothing can win against Hidden Depths. Or, if you hate the coin, just use Freezing Wind, or Berserker Splash and Full Retaliation.

 

Crushing Current is to Basic Green as Hidden Depths is to Basic Blue.

Except instead of Sycamore and VS Seeker, Crushing Current has Tierno and Shauna. The difference is huge.

 

And whoever said Hidden Depths depths has no draw power, well, ahem, come in N.

 

Man.. Dewgong is just so annoying to face. And some newbs have taken the liberty to take it outside theme too.

 

Though one problem with Hidden Depths is that nearly everyone has a heavy retreat cost without Dodrio (which kinds sucks as an attacker). And the main attackers not named Seaking take forever to charge up.

 

I'm currently using Crushing Current to newb farm Mental Might users (I still face a lot of them, some guests) cuz it's the fastest. 120 damage for 3 energy on a basic is priceless even with the bench recoil.

 

I tried Hidden Depths and yeah... like the poster above just said, it is pretty slow despite being a good theme deck in general.

 

And.. sigh... fire gets the short straw once again.

Dewgong is one of my favourites. If he attacks you and you don't remove the Conditions, there's a 1/4 chance of you doing anything on your next turn.

 

Hidden Depths is like Basic Blue in that it takes a while to get going, but nothing is going to survive an Aqua Tail or a Thrash.

 

Probably Crushing Current is the quicker, but unless Crushing Current can get in several Weakness shots, Hidden Depths can beat it.

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