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The problem about current ladder


FCMbrah

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Hello Community,

 

as a player that have been here some quite some time i really dislike playing on the ladder for a simple fact: it is not fun nor enjoyable. i have talked to a lot people on ptcgo and they completely agree. the problem about this is clearly the way the community is focusing about rewards etc. which ends up facing decks like night march, seimsitoad variants, trev break or anything similar than that at least 9/10. no one likes to watch the opponent having 3-4 minutes TURN 1 setting up their 3 shaymins, using 4x battle compressor and burning through the deck while i sit there and watch them do their thing. the more competitive this game is getting the more users tend to use the cheapest way to win which is not in the interest of players of myself which just wanna have fun times playing this game. Another perfect example are those shiftry deck user in unlimited..this is how the metagame developed throughout the time and this is where it got its climax. sure there are ways to beat it but it is not the idea of a game to play a certain deck so that you can win against those annoying kids. this has nothing to do with fun.

in earlier versions there was something like a beginner head vs head which was cool but not really efficient since some user "missclicked" on beginner with their high-end decks to play against new user with their basic fighting theme deck and make fun of them crushing them by turn 1-2.

 

i would wish if there could be a place for player that like to play for fun and still getting those rewards where things like night march, item-lock based decks etc. are banned and where normal user can actually having fun playing not so many competitive decks while having a higher chance to actually win games. just let those competitive people play against themselves on "non fun" ladder where they can enjoy having night march mirrors, taking 500 turns until one seismitoad ends up knocking out the other one out etc.

 

in no other expansion i felt like this game is so unenjoyable and annoying. i hope there will be some kind of solution to this problem. 

feel free to post your personal opinion to this topic and maybe we can get a discussion going.

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The card developers created some overpowered cards that turned the meta too overcentralizing on a few set of decks. Worse than that, those few decks are annoying, as in time consuming (as you said, you need to wait 5min for the 1st turn set up) and game limitation (you can't play your cards because of locks). Just overall bad design that turned the TCG boring. That's the main issue imo, but nothing we can do about it.

 

If non competitive people just wanna have fun matches, well my advice is creating a topic in this forum for that effect. I'd say it's near impossible to create a game mode for beginners limiting a huge combination of cards.

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Guest Olexa

Yes,its quite anoing.But imagine,one day,they try to solve/fix this and its have all chances to become worst than it was(

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One thing they could do is have a ladder specifically for people that want to test out competitive decks. Players would have a choice between the regular ladder and the testing ladder.

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I agree that the ladder is a bit long. But I really don't want it shortened, because people that want to play 20 games a day shouldn't be penalized for it. So my suggestion would be have the full art supporter, or whatever the last prize happens to be, at more like 1200 points, and have nothing but coins after that. Maybe every 100 points there is something like 100-150 coins all the way up to infinity, never ending. So the people who grind for the full art would have an easier time, and the people who just want to play a ton don't get penalized and can use coins for trading/buying from the shop.

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I agree that the ladder is a bit long. But I really don't want it shortened, because people that want to play 20 games a day shouldn't be penalized for it. So my suggestion would be have the full art supporter, or whatever the last prize happens to be, at more like 1200 points, and have nothing but coins after that. Maybe every 100 points there is something like 100-150 coins all the way up to infinity, never ending. So the people who grind for the full art would have an easier time, and the people who just want to play a ton don't get penalized and can use coins for trading/buying from the shop.

You sir, are a genius. I made a thread a while back with a potential change for the VS ladder, but having the FA supporter at 1200 makes it so much more achievable, as well as moving the 1200-on prizes after the supporter.
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The actual pokemo****** on the 3ds is having the same problems. Pokemon battles aren't balanced and a lot of competitive fun is lost. Some may know of Smogon and some may like or dislike them, but personally they i believe they do an awesome job at balancing the game to fun and competitive for everyone. The direction pokemon (i think they are making a mistake by not doing this) is putting different pokemon into tiers. This is the point i'm trying to make here is if pokemon trading card game were to put cards into different tiers based on how competitive they are the game would be a lot more fun and we would see use of cards that are essentially useless that we get in packs. i think that we should still have different tiers. So for example
1. in Smogon there is the tier called Ou or overused essentially this is the most used pokemon, night march, greninja, toads, and those pokemon card decks would be able to play in that format and you would still be able to use any cards you want
2. below that is a tier called UU or underused this would be all decks that don't use pokemon for example that have night march or specific pokemon would be disqualified from being used here which would be deemed to overpowered.

 

essentially you would move down the list until you would reach your crappy evolution cards that nobody uses in the current format. it would be up to adminstration and people actively evolved and experienced in the game to deem what pokemon go where and what would be usable, and pokemon in these tiers can change over time

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The actual pokemo****** on the 3ds is having the same problems. Pokemon battles aren't balanced and a lot of competitive fun is lost. Some may know of Smogon and some may like or dislike them, but personally they i believe they do an awesome job at balancing the game to fun and competitive for everyone. The direction pokemon (i think they are making a mistake by not doing this) is putting different pokemon into tiers. This is the point i'm trying to make here is if pokemon trading card game were to put cards into different tiers based on how competitive they are the game would be a lot more fun and we would see use of cards that are essentially useless that we get in packs. i think that we should still have different tiers. So for example

1. in Smogon there is the tier called Ou or overused essentially this is the most used pokemon, night march, greninja, toads, and those pokemon card decks would be able to play in that format and you would still be able to use any cards you want

2. below that is a tier called UU or underused this would be all decks that don't use pokemon for example that have night march or specific pokemon would be disqualified from being used here which would be deemed to overpowered.

 

essentially you would move down the list until you would reach your crappy evolution cards that nobody uses in the current format. it would be up to adminstration and people actively evolved and experienced in the game to deem what pokemon go where and what would be usable, and pokemon in these tiers can change over time

Tiers might be cool in PTCGO, but it will never happen until the Physical game gets officially tiered.
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Tiers might be cool in PTCGO, but it will never happen until the Physical game gets officially tiered.

yeah it would be a lot of fun. you are absolutely right i actually stopped playing the game because i would make a pokemon team on Smogon and then i would go try and play with it online but it was near impossible. i would always play the same pokemon landorus, suicune, scizor, etc.. i couldn't get 6 v. 6 battles with pokemon that i made a team from which were in the never used tier at the time and competitively would get beat by pokemon in higher tiers. The pokemon trading card game is the same way in a sense not near as bad though. i switched over to ptcgo for this very reason, the meta was stale and the 3 v. 3 was really boring. one thing that i really appreciate about ptcgo is the expansions which come out pretty regularly. They add a variety of different cards and strategies to try out, something the actual Pokemo****** fails to do because we get new pokemon every year or 2 years.

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Tiers might be cool in PTCGO, but it will never happen until the Physical game gets officially tiered.

However, i could see a movement from people in the community though to make a tiered format in which Pokemon would not be involved if overpowered cards continue to be printed. mewtwo ex really was the definitive card that started the trend for cards to be more and more op if you think about it and this is relatively recent so there really hasn't been a real solution to what the game is currently going through.

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However, i could see a movement from people in the community though to make a tiered format in which Pokemon would not be involved if overpowered cards continue to be printed. mewtwo ex really was the definitive card that started the trend for cards to be more and more op if you think about it and this is relatively recent so there really hasn't been a real solution to what the game is currently going through.

True. Until Japan decides to (or doesn't) make a tier system for the TCG, the only way to tier things is with Donation run Tournaments using special Unofficial formats (sort of like the OU and UU tiers you were referencing. You could make an unofficial format where no cards rarer than Non-Holo Rare (Excluding Theme deck exclusive non Holo rares) are allowed in Decks. A Tournament with that would be fun, as it would be innovative.
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The problem you're mentioning comes more from the standard format than the ladder itself.

 

Standard is indeed boring, mostly because you have to wait 5 minutes for your opponent to do his/her turn one, and then do the same, to finally be able to play a more interactive game...

Battle compressor, Shaymin and to some extent cards like trainers mail play a big role in that... So if you want to ladder in a format were they are not ennoying, I'd suggest Legacy or theme deck, after all, the ladder is not limited to standard.

 

Legacy is probably the most interesting format anyway, with no gust of wind (few, let's say) people can play their cards and build a strategy more easily (setup decks more viable), there is no real locking decks like Trevenant/Vileplume/Toad as well, and the card draw is made with supporters for the most part (while in standard it's more about the 3 cards mentionned above), so people does not play for 5 min before passing the turn...

 

And the pack on the cake, legacy prizes are way better than all other options in tournaments.

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