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Unowns and Night March


CycloneGU

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I think I just found something that is so broken that it makes for a very one-sided experience that is definitely unlevel. What do you think?

I start a new game and all I get to play is a Gible. I am fortunate to have a Rare Candy and a Garchomp right away, so I'm ready to evolve and KO the Joltik in front of me, provided it doesn't evolve, on my first attack. I put an energy on the Gible and end my turn to see what he does.

In one turn, he used an item card to draw out a Sycamore, eventually got four Unowns onto his bench with a Sycamore redraw (which placed two more Pokémon in the discard pile), discarded every single Unown, and played a Battle Compressor. This put three more Pokémon in the discard pile. He then placed a spare Pumpkaboo as unneeded backup (I say unneeded for a reason). He then places an energy on Joltik and uses Night March for 180 damage. Game over. I never even got to attack.

I don't know how many decks there are that can KO like that on one turn (I did chat once with someone who has an item-locking deck, meanwhile). But given how Unowns can be freely discarded like this, and how Night March relies on the discard pile...has Night March become way too easy to take advantage of now? Is there a draw with such a deck that can even lose a game? If not, that's a huge unbalance.

 

BTW, I tried to use an "a" word in a legit. way, but got blotted out.

 

EDIT: I just looked closer and found out that it only looks at Night March attacks, so I guess my concern is whether it's possible to say that Night March is way too overpowered for use in the regular meta.

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Night March has always been broken, but especially so with the release of Shaymin-EX.

 

If you want it to go away, September of 2017 will be the day you are waiting for

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Night March has always been broken, but especially so with the release of Shaymin-EX.

 

If you want it to go away, September of 2017 will be the day you are waiting for

yea i heard that month and year they are suppose to bring out another counter for it. its suppose to do what trump did without the effect of meta messing up.

 

yea night march is a pain so dont feel bad. we went against it. i won against it allot and all i can say is to use poke that can attack with one energy and can really ohko em left and right.

 

best bet to use is pyroars or angslash (the ability ex with special energies). pyroars against that deck is a stopper on impact unless hex is in there deck then its done. but that be a one time deal.

 

yveltal is your best friend tho. it can help but not a 100% win. the real wins is trev with the lock item ability.

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yea i heard that month and year they are suppose to bring out another counter for it. its suppose to do what trump did without the effect of meta messing up.

yea night march is a pain so dont feel bad. we went against it. i won against it allot and all i can say is to use poke that can attack with one energy and can really ohko em left and right.

best bet to use is pyroars or angslash (the ability ex with special energies). pyroars against that deck is a stopper on impact unless hex is in there deck then its done. but that be a one time deal.

yveltal is your best friend tho. it can help but not a 100% win. the real wins is trev with the lock item ability.

Actually, September 2017 is when the Night Marchers rotate out of standard :)

And most Night March Decks would run Trump Card, as they could literally recover from an offensive trump card the next turn. It wasn't very detrimental to NM at all.

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Actually, September 2017 is when the Night Marchers rotate out of standard :)

And most Night March Decks would run Trump Card, as they could literally recover from an offensive trump card the next turn. It wasn't very detrimental to NM at all.

when i used it., it was a good counter. never said it was the 100%. it was a nightmare to em tho sometimes. nothing is 100% against nm tho.

 

ps: wow i need more cards for legacy. lol i just tried it and man i forgot about some of the hsgss cards having pokeplays (can hex work on those?).

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when i used it., it was a good counter. never said it was the 100%. it was a nightmare to em tho sometimes. nothing is 100% against nm tho.

 

ps: wow i need more cards for legacy. lol i just tried it and man i forgot about some of the hsgss cards having pokeplays (can hex work on those?).

Firstly wrong thread to ask your question.

 

Second - Hex only works on abilities.

 

Hope this helps :)

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Firstly wrong thread to ask your question.

 

Second - Hex only works on abilities.

 

Hope this helps :)

i know but i couldn't make a new thread. so i asked it in my post. figures. lol. oh well.

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Weird that you'd see unowns in a pure Night March variant. Those usually show up in Vespiqueen/NM hybrids since Vespiqueen benefits from all the pokemon in your discard pile.

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I'm surprised Dimension Valley stadium card hasn't been banned, after some thought.  That is the one card that makes the deck run a non-stop strategy.

 

I should note I had no Pokés for the bench in the case of my initial draw, and Brigette, Sycamore, and supporters were all still having coffee, so I had nothing to defend against the possibility.  I did run into a couple of Night March later in tournament and did barely defeat the first, partly because I Lysandred the Shaymin-EX with a Garchomp (which put me ahead by a chunk), but despite doing that in the finals I got Xerosic sent after my Focus Sash on Garchomp and I lost.  I can be less salty about that one as I made him earn that victory, unlike the ladder one where I just got steamrolled to death.

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I'm sorry dude but it's clear that you still have a lot to learn about the metagame and about the game in general. Dimension Valley is not OP. And while we're at it, there aren't any Stadium cards that can be considered OP either. Unless they release a Stadium card that can completely break the game in a single turn, all stadium cards will always have the weakness of being removable.

 

Any deck, no matter what deck it may be, carries either its own set of stadium cards, or at the very least, some sort of way of removing your opponent's stadium from play (including disruption stadiums like Silent Lab and the supporter Delinquent).

 

A few months ago there was a similar complaint about Rough Seas being OP, and the reason it isn't is the same for this one.

 

The only kind of cards that warrant a ban are cards which are extremely toxic to the game, not just mildly controversial. Shiftry/FotGP made it so that you could consistantly win turn 1 without your opponent playing even 1 card. LTC made it literally impossible for mill decks to win. Dimension Valley doesn't do any of those things or anything even similar, and thus it will not be banned.

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I'm surprised Dimension Valley stadium card hasn't been banned, after some thought.  That is the one card that makes the deck run a non-stop strategy.

 

I should note I had no Pokés for the bench in the case of my initial draw, and Brigette, Sycamore, and supporters were all still having coffee, so I had nothing to defend against the possibility.  I did run into a couple of Night March later in tournament and did barely defeat the first, partly because I Lysandred the Shaymin-EX with a Garchomp (which put me ahead by a chunk), but despite doing that in the finals I got Xerosic sent after my Focus Sash on Garchomp and I lost.  I can be less salty about that one as I made him earn that victory, unlike the ladder one where I just got steamrolled to death.

 

Since you're using Garchomp, you have the speed to ohko night march users, so that's step one to beat it. To adapt my garchomp deck to night marchers, I added 2 enhanced hammers. The key idea is to take down 2 night marchers (with a dce) and 2 hammers to get rid of the remaining 2 dce's. If your opponent doesn't have puzzles of time (which few NM variants use from personal experience), he can't get back his dce's. Pretty obvious that without the dce's, NM is easy to deal with. And you have easy access to enhanced hammers with korrina. Eventually if you can't finish your opponent, or you can't finish him, he'll end up decking out.

 

The worst case scenario is what you described, only 1 active and no benched to at least buy time to get some ko's and enhanced hammers. But that's just rng, nothing you can do about that, take the loss and move on.

 

If you feel that rng isn't the issue, then you just need to adapt and make the necessary changes to your deck to deal with it better. NM isn't nowhere near the toughest matchup for Garchomp, that is vs Trev item lock. There's like a very slim chance for you to win, but that's just hard counter decks.

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Since you're using Garchomp, you have the speed to ohko night march users, so that's step one to beat it. To adapt my garchomp deck to night marchers, I added 2 enhanced hammers. The key idea is to take down 2 night marchers (with a dce) and 2 hammers to get rid of the remaining 2 dce's. If your opponent doesn't have puzzles of time (which few NM variants use from personal experience), he can't get back his dce's. Pretty obvious that without the dce's, NM is easy to deal with. And you have easy access to enhanced hammers with korrina. Eventually if you can't finish your opponent, or you can't finish him, he'll end up decking out.

 

The worst case scenario is what you described, only 1 active and no benched to at least buy time to get some ko's and enhanced hammers. But that's just rng, nothing you can do about that, take the loss and move on.

 

If you feel that rng isn't the issue, then you just need to adapt and make the necessary changes to your deck to deal with it better. NM isn't nowhere near the toughest matchup for Garchomp, that is vs Trev item lock. There's like a very slim chance for you to win, but that's just hard counter decks.

No Night march keeps 4 DCE in play. They only keep 1 DCE with main attacker in play - afraid of Enhanced hammer !! So.. enhanced hammer is not good enough.

 

Focus sash helps alot, but still isn't good. I made garchomp with bats - my deck was very inconsistent, But they broke night march easily. If my deck would have been consistent. Bats/Garchomp would have been easy counter !!

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Probably I didn't explained myself well.  As I ko 2 mons with the DCE (and he ko's 2 or 3 of mine), the last 2 I'm not forced to ko them if I'm packing the hammers. With 4 DCE's in the discard pile and no puzzles of time, check mate. It's not a hard counter as in you get 100% win ratio vs NM, they're the cards I need to rival with NM, trading blows (because Chomp decks have the speed to exchange ko's) and end up winning by "exhaustion" either by decking out or taking out every single DCE they have.

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Well i hate this deck NM... anyway i make a deck with Trevenant (4) and aegislash ex(4)... and many trainer object (Hammer, red card, Macarra..etc) and is... super effective.

 

Sorry my english im latino.

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Garchomp + focus slash, Trevenant + Wally, AO Enti + Assult vests, Manetric Ex + bats, maybe non ex Yveltal and Toad have a fair chance against march, but I do think march decks are the most well rounded in the format and can stand against any deck in standard. 

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Actually couldnt NM be rotated out this year (September 2016) since its the fouth XY era set, and by that time there will be 11/12 sets (depending on whether you count generations) so wouldnt it make sense to rotate out the first 4 give or take a set

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Since you're using Garchomp, you have the speed to ohko night march users, so that's step one to beat it. To adapt my garchomp deck to night marchers, I added 2 enhanced hammers. The key idea is to take down 2 night marchers (with a dce) and 2 hammers to get rid of the remaining 2 dce's. If your opponent doesn't have puzzles of time (which few NM variants use from personal experience), he can't get back his dce's. Pretty obvious that without the dce's, NM is easy to deal with. And you have easy access to enhanced hammers with korrina. Eventually if you can't finish your opponent, or you can't finish him, he'll end up decking out.

 

The worst case scenario is what you described, only 1 active and no benched to at least buy time to get some ko's and enhanced hammers. But that's just rng, nothing you can do about that, take the loss and move on.

 

If you feel that rng isn't the issue, then you just need to adapt and make the necessary changes to your deck to deal with it better. NM isn't nowhere near the toughest matchup for Garchomp, that is vs Trev item lock. There's like a very slim chance for you to win, but that's just hard counter decks.

To be fair, I have beaten Night March on several occasions, including the once in a tournament that I noted.  And yes, mine was a worst case scenario; in the future, if I get that bad draw and see someone preparing a OHKO, I'm not sticking around to watch. LOL  I even beat NM yesterday once in Versus when it came up.  So obviously it's not unbeatable, but the constant deck draws make it almost impossible.  You literally have to be able to get supporters out and get the 'Mons on the bench, and Focus Sash has become something I will try to multiply so I can better deal with it (except when someone has VS Seeker aplenty to constantly draw a card to remove that before attacking). That said, I need to get SushiMaster (this is proving difficult) to better improve my draw odds against NM since it relies on drawing and I can then draw to match.  I get a little jelly of the NM decks holding two Shaymin-EX - especially fullarts. LOL.

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Actually couldnt NM be rotated out this year (September 2016) since its the fouth XY era set, and by that time there will be 11/12 sets (depending on whether you count generations) so wouldnt it make sense to rotate out the first 4 give or take a set

4 sets would mean KSS-FUF rotating. If they did 5 sets (they did last year but it was probably only just to get the BLW era out of Standard).

 

5 set rotation WOULD put us at PHF-on, but it is kind of unlikely.

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4 sets would mean KSS-FUF rotating. If they did 5 sets (they did last year but it was probably only just to get the BLW era out of Standard).

 

5 set rotation WOULD put us at PHF-on, but it is kind of unlikely.

Will they consider the KSS a complete set though, since its more like a promo set since it only has 39 cards, Im just curious because Ive heard people debate which sets being rotated

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Will they consider the KSS a complete set though, since its more like a promo set since it only has 39 cards, Im just curious because Ive heard people debate which sets being rotated

They considered it when they rotated LTR. Crushing Hammer oly had one legal print at the time, and that was from KSS. It's technically a set, unlike the Trainer kits, which only have set numbering for the purpose of organization.
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I'm sorry dude but it's clear that you still have a lot to learn about the metagame and about the game in general. Dimension Valley is not OP. And while we're at it, there aren't any Stadium cards that can be considered OP either. Unless they release a Stadium card that can completely break the game in a single turn, all stadium cards will always have the weakness of being removable.

 

Any deck, no matter what deck it may be, carries either its own set of stadium cards, or at the very least, some sort of way of removing your opponent's stadium from play (including disruption stadiums like Silent Lab and the supporter Delinquent).

 

A few months ago there was a similar complaint about Rough Seas being OP, and the reason it isn't is the same for this one.

 

The only kind of cards that warrant a ban are cards which are extremely toxic to the game, not just mildly controversial. Shiftry/FotGP made it so that you could consistantly win turn 1 without your opponent playing even 1 card. LTC made it literally impossible for mill decks to win. Dimension Valley doesn't do any of those things or anything even similar, and thus it will not be banned.

The only Stadium card that could even warrant banning is Tropical Beach. Before you Beach owners shout me down, it's not because Beach is broken, it's because it was an extremely useful card in the metagame (not unlike Shaymin-EX). The chief difference being that Shaymin-EX can be pulled in a ROS pack, whereas Tropical Beach only had 2 prints (at worlds of 2011 and 2012). This is (in my opinion) the only Stadium that can even come close to warranting a ban, not because of its playability, but because of its expense, and relative rarity.
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The only Stadium card that could even warrant banning is Tropical Beach. Before you Beach owners shout me down, it's not because Beach is broken, it's because it was an extremely useful card in the metagame (not unlike Shaymin-EX). The chief difference being that Shaymin-EX can be pulled in a ROS pack, whereas Tropical Beach only had 2 prints (at worlds of 2011 and 2012). This is (in my opinion) the only Stadium that can even come close to warranting a ban, not because of its playability, but because of its expense, and relative rarity.

 

Yeah ok, I could agree with a Beach ban, but as you said it's so rare it's probably not going to be necessary. I have played a lot of games, and I've yet to come across a single Beach in either VS or Tournaments xd

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They considered it when they rotated LTR. Crushing Hammer oly had one legal print at the time, and that was from KSS. It's technically a set, unlike the Trainer kits, which only have set numbering for the purpose of organization.

 I still think it could possibly be rotated out but I guess we wont know until closer to September, and I just thought of the KSS similar to the trainer kits so its interesting to know they consider it a set

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 I still think it could possibly be rotated out but I guess we wont know until closer to September, and I just thought of the KSS similar to the trainer kits so its interesting to know they consider it a set

They do.  The item cards are even used in the various decks that are available, and I think a couple of Trainer's Challenge decks might have them.  I'd have to review to confirm the latter, however, as I'm currently trying to pull all those decks before the next rotation; I figure when they rotate, the TC decks will likely update with them and the basic decks might also update.  Curious what will happen to Rallying Cry and Mental Might.  We will see!

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They do.  The item cards are even used in the various decks that are available, and I think a couple of Trainer's Challenge decks might have them.  I'd have to review to confirm the latter, however, as I'm currently trying to pull all those decks before the next rotation; I figure when they rotate, the TC decks will likely update with them and the basic decks might also update.  Curious what will happen to Rallying Cry and Mental Might.  We will see!

Rallying Cry stayed the same through the XY-on update despite containing mostly BW cards. I honestly don't expect much from that. Mental Might however would be a cool deck to get a makeover, as I find it pretty boring. Maybe get an XY Basic Orange deck? Or just an updated Mental Might list (Trevenant XY. Would make Theme Deck VS so fun. Kappa).
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