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help with night march


olafviking

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i am wondering what a standard night march deck list w/e vespiqueen or without vespiqueen. i do not have shaymen nor do i have octilery but i have a full art hydragon and a full art galaide to trade if maby that can get me octilery or shaymen to finish a list. i am also wondering what is run trianer and energy wise i do know 4 dce is a must and the current list i run has 4 bc but just looking for feed back and maby ways to optimise the deck

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Night March is over. Too many things have too many ways to stop Night march now. Honestly, I wouldn't bother building a NM deck, BUT, on the other hand, its a cheap deck to make, so it doesn't hurt I guess. I haven't lost to NM is quite a while actually. But really, SO many things are lined up against NM right now.

 

1) Trevenant item lock kills Night March, plus the bench damage just slaughters everything NM puts up.

2) Because of Trev, Darkness is the dominant non-Trev deck because Trev is weak to Darkness, but so is Pumkaboo, and Baby Yveltal can 1 shot Pumpkaboo for 1 energy and Darkness often leads with Baby Yveltal.

3) Joltik is weak to fighting, and again, now Landorus, Lucario, and Garhomp all can 1 hit Joltik for 1 energy, even with a Fury Belt. Also, because of Garchomp, Fighting is also a top meta deck right now.

 

So basically, the top three decks in the format right now, Trevenant, Darkness, and Fighting all have the upper hand over Night March. 

 

In addition, Greninja kills Night March, Noivern has the advantage over Night March, there are tons of ways to discard special energy, Fury Belt makes getting OHKOs on EXs much harder, Max Elixir makes energy acceleration easier so people can get more attackers out faster now. It's just not a good game for Night March anymore...

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i am wondering what a standard night march deck list w/e vespiqueen or without vespiqueen. i do not have shaymen nor do i have octilery but i have a full art hydragon and a full art galaide to trade if maby that can get me octilery or shaymen to finish a list. i am also wondering what is run trianer and energy wise i do know 4 dce is a must and the current list i run has 4 bc but just looking for feed back and maby ways to optimise the deck

Hmm, right now I'm away from home so I can't help you getting the pieces, but I can give you a list of the core cards you need. I'll talk about pure Night March decks since I don't know a whole lot about Vespiqueen.

 

 

 

Pokemon:

 

 

 

● 4 Joltik: it can attack and fuel your Night March damage. It's great against Yveltal EX decks, as you can get OHKOs with very little discards and it doesn't depend on Dimension Valley. It struggles really hard against damage spread due to its low base hp, specially trevenant. Greninja is also a tough game for the spider.

 

 

 

● 4 Pumpkaboo: also attacks and fuels your damage. It's amazing against psychic decks, but it struggles against Darkness decks. The fact that it needs either Dimension Valley in play or consume a second DCE its one of its flaws.

 

 

 

● 4 Lampent: They just go straight to the Discard and give you damage. Simple and easy.

 

 

 

 

 

Trainers:

 

 

 

● 4 Battle Compressor: it has 3 main uses; it discardsNM cards that give you damage, it discards Supporters you later retireve via VS Seeker and it gets rid of cards you don't need.

 

 

 

● 4 acro bike: Gives you draw power and lets you discard things.

 

 

 

● 4 Trainers Mail: gives you draw power.

 

 

 

● 4 VS Seeker: lets you get supporters.

 

 

 

● 4 Ultra Ball: You can discard things and get pokemon.

 

 

 

● FFB or Muscle band: ovrall FFB is a better item but in some situations you might need the extra 10 damage.

 

 

 

● 2 Sycamore: you need it to draw cards fast. You run 2 because you'll need him every game and you cant risk the 10% of having it prized with just 1 copy.

 

 

 

● Tech supporters: supporters that help you get around specific situations. You only run 1 of each. Examples, Hex Maniac, Xerosic, Teamates, Lysandre (I like running 1of this one but most people run 2), etc.

 

 

 

● 3-4 Dimension Valley: for the Pumpkaboo.

 

 

 

Other things you could consider:

 

 

 

● Either Octillery or Shaymin for draw power. They both synergize really well with ultra ball.

 

 

 

● Milotic to recover stuff from the Discard, mainly DCE.

 

 

 

● Float Stone so that your support pokemon aren't easy lysandre targets.

 

 

 

● Puzzle of time: it's a bit of a gimmicky item but I feel it works well here. I run *** with a 2-2 Milotic Line and it works wonders.

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Night March is over. Too many things have too many ways to stop Night march now. Honestly, I wouldn't bother building a NM deck, BUT, on the other hand, its a cheap deck to make, so it doesn't hurt I guess. I haven't lost to NM is quite a while actually. But really, SO many things are lined up against NM right now.

 

1) Trevenant item lock kills Night March, plus the bench damage just slaughters everything NM puts up.

2) Because of Trev, Darkness is the dominant non-Trev deck because Trev is weak to Darkness, but so is Pumkaboo, and Baby Yveltal can 1 shot Pumpkaboo for 1 energy and Darkness often leads with Baby Yveltal.

3) Joltik is weak to fighting, and again, now Landorus, Lucario, and Garhomp all can 1 hit Joltik, even with a Fury Belt. Also, because of Garchomp, Fighting is also a top meta deck right now.

 

So basically, the top three decks in the format right now, Trevenant, Darkness, and Fighting all have the upper hand over Night March.

I honestly doon't have much of a hard time against Darkness decks or Fighting decks. Yveltal's weakness to lightning hits him really hard, and I feel like fihtinh decks are a bit overreliant on Focus Sash to beat NM. As long as your Xerosic isn't prize, you have a prety decent chance of winning.

 

Trevenant is an automatic loss though xd I'll admit that much.

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  • LMao this guy saying night march is dead.... It's called Hex Maniac. 

 

The Garchomp deck is good but relies on luck of drawing Korrina on 1st hand which this game allows to happen... A LOT!  Focus Slash is more of a pain than the deck itself, which is a stall technique.  Nothing good or bad, just depends on if person is lucky enough to get it early and often.

 

 

Without Shaymin I made a deck to try there's essentials to get through:

 

4 Prof. Sycamore, or combo of Psychic 3rd eye.  4 VS seeker 4 Battle Compressor, 4 ultra ball 4 level ball, great balls don't hurt.  4 Unowns,  and then if you like acro bike or trainers mail.  I find myself discarding them in compressor late in the game anyways.  Does Shaymin help? absolutely but it frees up 2 prizes without it and a scoop up or AZ.  So ive actually had more fun playing without Shaymin. 

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Links of time or w/e from Breakpoint have been a major disappointment IMO.  Thought it would be juggernaut, don't believe it has.

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  • LMao this guy saying night march is dead.... It's called Hex Maniac. 

 

The Garchomp deck is good but relies on luck of drawing Korrina on 1st hand which this game allows to happen... A LOT!  Focus Slash is more of a pain than the deck itself, which is a stall technique.  Nothing good or bad, just depends on if person is lucky enough to get it early and often.

 

 

Without Shaymin I made a deck to try there's essentials to get through:

 

4 Prof. Sycamore, or combo of Psychic 3rd eye.  4 VS seeker 4 Battle Compressor, 4 ultra ball 4 level ball, great balls don't hurt.  4 Unowns,  and then if you like acro bike or trainers mail.  I find myself discarding them in compressor late in the game anyways.  Does Shaymin help? absolutely but it frees up 2 prizes without it and a scoop up or AZ.  So ive actually had more fun playing without Shaymin. 

 

 

I don't think NM is dead but you're also wrong in that Hex Maniac does not stop Trevenant from destroying Night March. You can't just Hex Maniac every turn. If your opponent goes first (50/50 chance), get the turn 1 tiem lock (can be done pretty reliably; this is a made-up stat but I'd say it's over 95% chance of doing it with the right cards), and you do not have in your hand Hex Maniac, that's all there is to it. Going 2nd with a turn 1 item lock is an instant gg for NM. There's literally nothing you can do to gain damage output.

 

If you do go first you can usually discard enough stuff to OHKO the Trevenants, but the problem is that they:

  1. Do damage spread. Even if you use the Pumpkaboos exclusively to attack, you still get your entire bench anhilated in 2 turns. FFB helps if you can get any up before the item lock, but in reality they just delay the inevitable.
  2. They usually carry Burst Balloon. Some decks can afford to just not attack that turn, but that's not the case when all of your attackers are 1 HP wonders. You can disarm them with Xerosic, but doing that while item locked is really hard. If you're not item locked, you already used Hex Maniac. The chances that you will just so happen to have a Startling Megaphone and a Hex Maniac when you get item locked is very low.

 

Like I said, I think NM can still put up a fight and win reasonably often against Yveltal decks because of the lightning weakness, and Fighting decks aren't too bad so long as you're careful in managing your cards, don't discard more attackers than what you need (Garchomp only has so much HP, Lucario has weakness), and make sure that you always have access to your Xerosic to discard the Focus Sash.

 

Also (I'm a bit uptight so please bear with me), it's really rude to refer to someone as "this guy" and laughing at their opinion. I have more of a middle ground view on NM, so I'll agree with you that NM isn't dead, but rgp has his own reasons to believe it is, so try to be respectful of other people's opinions just like others will respect your opinion on the matter.

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It's fine, I'm not bothered by their statement. I'm not easily offended. Sure, you can still win games here and there with NM, you can with any deck, but it's nothing like it was from the release of Phantom Forces up to Ancient Origins. 

 

I think NM is at least "50%" worse than it used to be now. There are just way too many popular decks that counter it.

 

Yeah, Joltik can hit Yveltal-EX for weakness, but anyone who is decent at the game will only play Baby Yveltal. Most Darkness decks play 4 Baby Yveltal. I play 3 of the typical one and 1 of the one that disables tools and hits benched EXs for 60, which you can use to 2 hit Shaymin if you get lucky as well. I play 1 Xerosic which is used mostly for Focus Sash, Bursting Balloon, or against NM for DCEs. And with Baby Yveltal attacks it can setup another Baby Yveltal on the bench. 

 

So, yeah, it's not a auto loss for NM against a darkness deck, but Baby Yveltal being able to OHKO both attackers for 1 energy (unless they have Fury Belt) is pretty solid. And with a Muscle Band he can still OHKO Pumpkaboo even with a Belt. I think Darkness has the advantage. 

 

But yeah, Trev is an auto loss for NM and Trev on-line right now is like 30% of the matches it seems.

 

Anyway, you can say its not dead if you want I guess, but when 30% of the time you have an auto loss I'd call that pretty bad, not to mention that there are a lot of other effects that are bad for NM. Delinquent is pretty hard on NM, there is more spread damage it seems with Noivern Break and Greninja Break being popular. 

 

I'd love to see the stats, but I'm certain that the win rate for NM has gone WAY down since the release of Breakpoint.

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It's fine, I'm not bothered by their statement. I'm not easily offended. Sure, you can still win games here and there with NM, you can with any deck, but it's nothing like it was from the release of Phantom Forces up to Ancient Origins. 

 

I think NM is at least "50%" worse than it used to be now. There are just way too many popular decks that counter it.

 

Yeah, Joltik can hit Yveltal-EX for weakness, but anyone who is decent at the game will only play Baby Yveltal. Most Darkness decks play 4 Baby Yveltal. I play 3 of the typical one and 1 of the one that disables tools and hits benched EXs for 60, which you can use to 2 hit Shaymin if you get lucky as well. I play 1 Xerosic which is used mostly for Focus Sash, Bursting Balloon, or against NM for DCEs. And with Baby Yveltal attacks it can setup another Baby Yveltal on the bench. 

 

So, yeah, it's not a auto loss for NM against a darkness deck, but Baby Yveltal being able to OHKO both attackers for 1 energy (unless they have Fury Belt) is pretty solid. And with a Muscle Band he can still OHKO Pumpkaboo even with a Belt. I think Darkness has the advantage. 

 

But yeah, Trev is an auto loss for NM and Trev on-line right now is like 30% of the matches it seems.

 

Anyway, you can say its not dead if you want I guess, but when 30% of the time you have an auto loss I'd call that pretty bad, not to mention that there are a lot of other effects that are bad for NM. Delinquent is pretty hard on NM, there is more spread damage it seems with Noivern Break and Greninja Break being popular. 

 

I'd love to see the stats, but I'm certain that the win rate for NM has gone WAY down since the release of Breakpoint.

 

Yeah, that's true. It's nowhere near as dominant as it used to be. If there is one thing I  think it's still really good at though, it'd be for ladder grinding, where the insta loss against Trev doesn't matter too much. 

 

The only decks I consistantly lose against though are Trevenant and Greninja. There are exceptions, like when they start with a dead hand and nothing to get out of it, but 95% of the time I lose against those 2 decks regardless of who goes first. Against all the others though I still put up a good fight and win consistantly enough to make it worth using, although there are more competitive decks out there.

 

Also, even though the turn 1 is long due to the lengthy set up, the rest goes by pretty fast due to the nature of the deck. I feel like NM is almost always a one sided stomp, regardless of which of the 2 players is getting stomped xd This is what I've been using to grind the current ladder and so far it's going pretty well. Some people beat me to the N already, but I'm not too far behind either (I'm at 1870 points).

 

I think I'm gonna keep this deck around for the next time I want to grind the ladder a bit. There are more fun decks to play but sometimes the reward is good enough to be worth the grind xd

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Night march isnt dead lol :P you're obviously saying that because u dont like night march XD 

 

Actually, if you read through, you'll see that the reason rgp said NM is donezo is because it has too many popular counters in the current meta, not because he doesn't like NM.

 

It's funny because when we saw FFB and Puzzle of Time announced, a lot of people this would be a significant buff to NM. Trev XY already existed way before this expansion so I guess people didn't really see why it would start being a problem now. What we didn't anticipate is that Trev BREAK would turn Trevenant into a complete monster. Burst Balloon definetly helps it as well, and BP Trev also does quite the number on NM because most pure NM variants don't run any energies besides DCE, which means you need 2 DCE to attack.

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6-0 and several concedes in hand 1 vs. the above Night March Counters tonight.  Welp, send me a postcard.  

 

Just need to face an adaptive NM deck.  We're John Revere's of the night march, you hear? 

 

 

(Having fun)

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people are saying NM is dead to this meta and i admit if you cant setup in one turn against trevenent your screwed but i still get people auto conceeding vs me when i run the deck. more then half my wins are people just seeing the pumkbo or the joltik and just saying nope not dealing with this and they just conceed.

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So clutch when doing the ladder, not so much for tournament tho

 

 

people are saying NM is dead to this meta and i admit if you cant setup in one turn against trevenent your screwed but i still get people auto conceeding vs me when i run the deck. more then half my wins are people just seeing the pumkbo or the joltik and just saying nope not dealing with this and they just conceed.

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they also auto conceed in turnaments too :P its insane really there is a fear ****** behind it. kindove like shiftry.

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i had 1 concede in tournament in round 1.  I don't use the psychics attack so no need for Dimension Valley and I only drew pumkaboo or w/e and was only starter.. . before any cards were played he said something about no skill and immediately cried and conceded before I could even reply back. 

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I love the deck for those auto concedes, especially when you have bad hands that aren't gonna go anywhere XD

 

Also love the salt of some people who leave a parting message..

 

"play a deck that requires brains yo"

 

Pretty sure night march is very skill intensive, outside of those first turn wins :P

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