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Ladder: Please just give us current format cards :(


playhavock

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Please, for the love of humanity. No more cards we can only play in limited or unlimited.

PLEASE.

V_V

thanks.

 

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Please, for the love of humanity. No more cards we can only play in limited or unlimited.

 

PLEASE.

 

V_V

 

thanks.

I can see why the current ladder would seem unatractive to the newer players who mostly play standard, but the thing is that you just can't please everyone. A lot of people actually really like the current ladder, and a few (myself included, so yes I'm somewhat biased) would even say that it's the best ladder so far. You would normally have to sell an organ to be able to get a FA N, and now they're giving us one for free (even if it's tradelocked that's still amazing. I would have had zero chance of getting that card otherwise, which I needed for completion's sake, and will even be playable in a few months when N is reprinted).

 

There are also many people who do play Expanded and can make use of these cards. And that FA N at the end of the ladder is more than enough of a reward to motivate anyone to do the climb.

 

There have been plenty of ladders with rewards which help newer players, like the one that had Manetric EX (to give one example). Almost every single ladder up to now had been cards from Standard. The last 2 ladders have been exceptions: they're conmemorating the 20 years of Pokemon, and in a few more ladders you can probably expect it to go back to handing out standard cards.

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Once the Mythical Pokemon Distribution is over, the ladder will probably go back to Standard (unless they decide to do HGSS Ladders ;) )

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I could understand your sentiment if the packs were Legendary Treasures, but you are still getting 1) up to 9 Free BreakPoint Boosters and 2) a FA N That is going to BE standard legal in June!

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playhavock, on 05 Mar 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

 

 

Please, for the love of humanity. No more cards we can only play in limited or unlimited.

 

PLEASE.

 

V_V

 

thanks.

 

ChawkyV, on 05 Mar 2016 - 1:48 PM, said:

 

 

FA N, FA N and you're complaining ?? what is the word coming to .... smh

 

Littledarkfury, on 05 Mar 2016 - 4:15 PM, said:

 

 

You're complaining about getting a FA N on the ladder LOL :(

You Know i love you and I got maad love for ya but I brought 2 of my other GOONS to (Muscle) some TRUTH into you.

 

 

 

GOONS-GET THAT TRUTH OVER TO HER!!!

 

 

 

P.S-Some ladders will have standard cards-others will have cards only for extended and unlim. N will be re-made for standard soon so no worries. IF not you still need to learn to play with cards in standard AND unlim TO BE THE BEST YOU CAN BE.

 

WITH LOVE,

              Zapdos                      ^__________^

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Since No one has mentioned why we are all Kreygasming over FA N is because, ITS GOING TO BE BACK IN StANDARD IN THE NEW EXPANSION :o

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The Full Art N is a great card.  I get it.  I don't particularly care about it (I collect the cards just to be able to play the game, not to have a complete set).  And while FA N is a good looking card and worth a lot of packs, it plays identically to regular N and I can't trade it.  Its neat, but it offers no value except to complete a collection.  That said, for the people who are trying to complete a set, it is critical. I get it.  

 

That said, the rest of the individual cards in the ladder are borderline useless to anyone from a playing perspective (not a collecting perspective).  Not only are they not usable in Standard, they are not particularly powerful in expanded or unlimited, which means they are collector's pieces and not much else.  What is more, with Unlimited potentially going away, a lot of these cards might move from "mostly useless" to "completely useless" within a rotation or two.

 

The biggest inherent value of the ladder is that it lowered the barrier of entry for new players.  Someone who just started playing could get two Mancentrics or two Yvetals, pair it with some trainers, and at least get STARTED in Vs.  The latest ladder has no value for a newbie.  Nobody is going to be more able to compete in Vs because they added a couple of Celebies.  

 

And while the packs and coins are helpful, you are really talking about 9 packs, 5 chests, one holo chest, and ~1000 coins (which can be traded for 5 more packs.)  Out of that prize pool you should expect to land ~3-4 ultra rare cards, but they will likely not be compatible with each other the way that the previous ladders have been (it is easier to put two Yvetals and the Dark Energy evolution chains from a previous ladder into a deck that it is to try to get competitive decks with a Espeon EX, a Togekiss EX, and a Greninja break (especially if you didn't happen to land a Greninja in your 14 packs).  

 

Look, I really do get it - the cards are rare, they are from sets a lot of people want to collect, and for some of you that is exciting.  But I like to think there are more people involved in PTCGO to play the game than to collect a digital set.  

 

Whatever.  The FA trainer at the end has always been for collectors - I don't care what those are.  but the rest of the ladder has been a real boon to people who are just trying to get started or who would like to be involved but who only have a few cards to start.  Making most of the prizes achievable by new players unplayable in any format that they would stand a chance in is short sighted.

 

Just my opinion.  

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I personally like that they have been putting B&W cards on the ladder. I have only been playing for about a month now, so although I do have a decent collection, I don't get many chances to collect older cards. I would never be able to get a FA N if it wasn't for the ladder, so I think it is really cool :) But I do think it should be standard format cards most of the time, to give players the best chance of getting something they can use. I wish they would put Mega Rayquaza on it. That is a deck I really want to build.

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I personally like that they have been putting B&W cards on the ladder. I have only been playing for about a month now, so although I do have a decent collection, I don't get many chances to collect older cards. I would never be able to get a FA N if it wasn't for the ladder, so I think it is really cool :) But I do think it should be standard format cards most of the time, to give players the best chance of getting something they can use. I wish they would put Mega Rayquaza on it. That is a deck I really want to build.

 

If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about it. I can almost guarantee you after this event in commemoration of Pokemon's 20 years is over we'll be back to having standard cards in the ladder.

 

And I am also really glad that I'll be able to get a FA N without having to sell an organ xd

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I understand what you guys are saying, but the sample set in the forums is overwhelmingly biased towards serious players/collectors. It is nice to cater to those people as well, but I am more than a little nervous that catering to them for 6 months straight while the generations sets are released will really mean that the barrier to entry for new players will be ridiculously high.

 

If the ladder is going to beexpanded, can we at least get standard EXs back in the shop? The last time that happened was before Halloween. That at least would give new players a chance to build towards having competitive decks without having to resort to nightmarch. And that is good for everyone.

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I understand what you guys are saying, but the sample set in the forums is overwhelmingly biased towards serious players/collectors. It is nice to cater to those people as well, but I am more than a little nervous that catering to them for 6 months straight while the generations sets are released will really mean that the barrier to entry for new players will be ridiculously high.

 

If the ladder is going to beexpanded, can we at least get standard EXs back in the shop? The last time that happened was before Halloween. That at least would give new players a chance to build towards having competitive decks without having to resort to nightmarch. And that is good for everyone.

 

I know what you mean, but the current environment isn't that unfriendly to new players. Honestly my only real concern when it comes to new players is that they don't have a tournament queue that's appropiate for their level of experience. When someone joins the game they will first experiment with all of the PvE aspects of the game (namely the turorial and Trainer Challenge). Once they grasp the basics they can move on to Theme in PvP, and when they finally do start playing Standard in PvP, the matchmaking system ensures that most of the time you will be matched against other players of a similar skill level. I do think that the matchmaker needs some adjustments, but it works fine for the most part.

 

Do keep in mind that the veterans here also do their best to incorporate the new players into the game. Not everyone seeks help in the forums sadly, because we really do try our best to help the new players here adapt and learn what they need to know about the metagame and strategy, as well as giving a little boost in their collection where we can.

 

It obviously still takes a long time for new players to have enough cards and experience to succesfully make their own original decks and do well with them, no matter how much help they recieve. But that's completely normal; every game has its own learning curve, and I don't think that the PTCGOs learning curve is that daunting.

 

While most new players will not immediatly venture into Expanded (for obvious reasons), you do have to remember as well that the VS ladder has 20 steps, of which 15 are still useful even for people who don't play Expanded (16 in this particular ladder because N is getting reprinted).

 

It's definetly not easy for new players to learn the ropes of the game, but the entry barrier is still at a reasonable height; most new players do manage to make their way around the game eventually.

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I understand what you are saying.  But please don't dismiss what I am saying without at least considering it.  

 

The most valuable part of the ladder for a new player is 1.) getting powerful cards that 2.) are compatible with each other so that you can build a deck.  The packs and chests are nice, but they are more beneficial to intermediate and experienced players - if you as an experienced player get a random Mega there is a good chance you can do something with it.  If a new player does, they have a neat card, but not one that will help them play the game.  

 

Consider this:  If you started playing in September of last year, the ladder had Yvetal EX. You could get a Pangoro Evolution Line, a Krookadile Evolution line, a Zorua/Zorark evolution line, and two Yvetal EX's.  That is the foundation of at least a passable black deck.  It isn't going to set the world on fire, but you could probably get enough piece parts from 15 packs on the ladder to get started.  

What is more, at that point (September 18 of last year) Lucario EX was in the shop as part of a bundle.  Pair 2 Yveltals with a few Lucarios (which you could afford because of the Ladder rewards!) and you have  real chance to get a foot hold in versus.  You won't win everything, but I bet you can win SOMETHING.  

 

Compare that to someone who started in February of this year.  They've got two Mews, two celebies, no ex's in the shop, a bunch of out of standard evolution lines, and Maybe 30 packs worth of the rather weak Breakpoint set (The mewtwos from the previous breakpoint set put any of the current ex's to shame.  And while Greninja break is a good card, you would be lucky to pull 1 from 30 packs.  I've gotten 1 from ~60.  

 

Bottom line - If you started when the ladder was catering to standard, you had a hope and a prayer of getting good cards and starting to play competitively before you got sick of theme decks and rage quit the game forever.  New players from the last two months are at a HUGE disadvantage in that regard.  And we are looking at 5 more months worth of the same nonsense. 

 

The Devs are going to look back at this year as a gigantic mistake.  the 20th anniversary has brought all kinds of new players.  I see posts from new players all the time asking how to get started, etc.  So there is a gigantic influx of new players who are all dramatically behind the 8 ball compared to players who had the benefit of last year's ladders and who are getting no help from this year's ladders at all.  They are going to get burned out and quit.  Deviating from Standard at a time when new people are joining at increasing rates is a gigantic tactical blunder.  They will regret it.  

 

For what it is worth, the generations set is another gigantic tactical blunder along the same lines.  If those packs were available to new players in the shop, they would have an opportunity to collect powerful cards from old sets and get competitive decks sooner.  Instead, only elite players are getting those cards, which widens the gap between the newbies and the players who have been around a while.  I've been around 1.5 years and even I want to rage quit when someone drops 3 Jolteon EX's on their bench.  Imagine how it must feel when you are trying to build a deck around Celebie EX.  

 

Bottom line - I get it.  You as an experienced player like getting cards you don't have yet.  Please hear me: New players need that feeling more than you.  And celebie-EX is no help to them whatsoever.  

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I understand what you are saying.  But please don't dismiss what I am saying without at least considering it.  

 

The most valuable part of the ladder for a new player is 1.) getting powerful cards that 2.) are compatible with each other so that you can build a deck.  The packs and chests are nice, but they are more beneficial to intermediate and experienced players - if you as an experienced player get a random Mega there is a good chance you can do something with it.  If a new player does, they have a neat card, but not one that will help them play the game.  

 

Consider this:  If you started playing in September of last year, the ladder had Yvetal EX. You could get a Pangoro Evolution Line, a Krookadile Evolution line, a Zorua/Zorark evolution line, and two Yvetal EX's.  That is the foundation of at least a passable black deck.  It isn't going to set the world on fire, but you could probably get enough piece parts from 15 packs on the ladder to get started.  

What is more, at that point (September 18 of last year) Lucario EX was in the shop as part of a bundle.  Pair 2 Yveltals with a few Lucarios (which you could afford because of the Ladder rewards!) and you have  real chance to get a foot hold in versus.  You won't win everything, but I bet you can win SOMETHING.  

 

Compare that to someone who started in February of this year.  They've got two Mews, two celebies, no ex's in the shop, a bunch of out of standard evolution lines, and Maybe 30 packs worth of the rather weak Breakpoint set (The mewtwos from the previous breakpoint set put any of the current ex's to shame.  And while Greninja break is a good card, you would be lucky to pull 1 from 30 packs.  I've gotten 1 from ~60.  

 

Bottom line - If you started when the ladder was catering to standard, you had a hope and a prayer of getting good cards and starting to play competitively before you got sick of theme decks and rage quit the game forever.  New players from the last two months are at a HUGE disadvantage in that regard.  And we are looking at 5 more months worth of the same nonsense. 

 

The Devs are going to look back at this year as a gigantic mistake.  the 20th anniversary has brought all kinds of new players.  I see posts from new players all the time asking how to get started, etc.  So there is a gigantic influx of new players who are all dramatically behind the 8 ball compared to players who had the benefit of last year's ladders and who are getting no help from this year's ladders at all.  They are going to get burned out and quit.  Deviating from Standard at a time when new people are joining at increasing rates is a gigantic tactical blunder.  They will regret it.  

 

For what it is worth, the generations set is another gigantic tactical blunder along the same lines.  If those packs were available to new players in the shop, they would have an opportunity to collect powerful cards from old sets and get competitive decks sooner.  Instead, only elite players are getting those cards, which widens the gap between the newbies and the players who have been around a while.  I've been around 1.5 years and even I want to rage quit when someone drops 3 Jolteon EX's on their bench.  Imagine how it must feel when you are trying to build a deck around Celebie EX.  

 

Bottom line - I get it.  You as an experienced player like getting cards you don't have yet.  Please hear me: New players need that feeling more than you.  And celebie-EX is no help to them whatsoever.  

I agree with every single word you just said, sir. I started when Manectric EX was on the ladder so I had a pretty good jump in the beginning. But these new guys and gals coming in are going to do one of two things. Either they are going to get confused and quit because they cannot use the new shiny card they got (celebi) or they are going to get burnt out due to losing in standard and quit. Not a smart move on Pokemon's part.

 

I am all for getting older cards (I've been collecting for almost 20 years) but I don't think it should be at the expense of the majority of new players trying to get their foot in the door. And if Pokemon absolutely must put expanded cards in the ladder, then put expanded boosters and theme decks in the shop for everyone to enjoy. Don't just cater to the people who have been here since the start and already have a majority of the HGSS and on stuff.

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Pretty sure this was mentioned and if u didn't already know...THIS IS A FRIKKIN FA N!!!!!!!!!! FA N!!!!!!!!!!

 

And I am pretty sure it is getting reprinted in one of the next two sets. And PULz, expanded and unlimited are bae! Unlimited even more so with Shiftry gone but still...junk arm...prof oak...FA Juniper...N...Jirachi-EX...don't hate on the most Kreygasmic cards in the game!

 

 

BTW gonna go concede the next 25 games in Theme, join in for a bit of the action! :P

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Pretty sure this was mentioned and if u didn't already know...THIS IS A FRIKKIN FA N!!!!!!!!!! FA N!!!!!!!!!!

 

And I am pretty sure it is getting reprinted in one of the next two sets. And PULz, expanded and unlimited are bae! Unlimited even more so with Shiftry gone but still...junk arm...prof oak...FA Juniper...N...Jirachi-EX...don't hate on the most Kreygasmic cards in the game!

 

 

BTW gonna go concede the next 25 games in Theme, join in for a bit of the action! :P

Yes, those cards are great. No argument there. But like I said, don't just give us newer guys a couple of expanded cards and nothing else to go with them. They are pretty much useless to us without getting expanded boosters or theme decks in the shop. Expanded should always be in the shop. I don't understand why it is not. I can walk into any major store around here and buy handfuls of Plasma Blast/Freeze and other Black and white packs/theme decks. Why can I not buy them from the company that makes them?

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Yes, those cards are great. No argument there. But like I said, don't just give us newer guys a couple of expanded cards and nothing else to go with them. They are pretty much useless to us without getting expanded boosters or theme decks in the shop. Expanded should always be in the shop. I don't understand why it is not. I can walk into any major store around here and buy handfuls of Plasma Blast/Freeze and other Black and white packs/theme decks. Why can I not buy them from the company that makes them?

I believe they are trying to promote standard more, due to the fact that most IRL tournaments. But I REALLY do wish we could have B&W and possibly even HGSS back in the shop!

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I can walk into any major store around here and buy handfuls of Plasma Blast/Freeze and other Black and white packs/theme decks. Why can I not buy them from the company that makes them?

Don't take this as factual because this is just my speculation, but it's very much possible for leftover packs from discontinued expansions to continue existing and circulating for long after they stopped producing them. In my country it's already completely impossible to buy Expanded packs from a store because we're a small country and the leftover stock was sold out a while back already, and we're not receiving any more stock in the present.

 

Since in the game it's all virtual they can just pull out the packs the same day they rotate out of standard.

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I think the point he is trying to make is this: The shop is artificially limited in the game. You can walk into toys R us and there are EX boxes, theme decks for just about every set, promo packs, etc. And anything you can't find there is plenty available on ***** or Amazon.

 

So why is it that a Jirachi promo is only available for 2 weeks before you never see it again in the shop? Why can't I buy EX boxes like I can in real life? Why can't I buy packs from sets that are no longer standard? There is no analog in real life. Nobody has to "Hope" a local Target is going to carry a good bundle this week. They carry them all the time.

 

Putting the "non-standard" items in the shop permanently so anyone can buy them whenever they want would open the door to more people building competitive expanded decks. Plus it would make it even more logical to put standard stuff on the ladder for new players, since experienced players could still get their fix with coins, etc.

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I think the point he is trying to make is this: The shop is artificially limited in the game. You can walk into toys R us and there are EX boxes, theme decks for just about every set, promo packs, etc. And anything you can't find there is plenty available on ***** or Amazon. So why is it that a Jirachi promo is only available for 2 weeks before you never see it again in the shop? Why can't I buy EX boxes like I can in real life? Why can't I buy packs from sets that are no longer standard? There is no analog in real life. Nobody has to "Hope" a local Target is going to carry a good bundle this week. They carry them all the time. Putting the "non-standard" items in the shop permanently so anyone can buy them whenever they want would open the door to more people building competitive expanded decks. Plus it would make it even more logical to put standard stuff on the ladder for new players, since experienced players could still get their fix with coins, etc.

Exactly.

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I think the point he is trying to make is this: The shop is artificially limited in the game. You can walk into toys R us and there are EX boxes, theme decks for just about every set, promo packs, etc. And anything you can't find there is plenty available on ***** or Amazon. So why is it that a Jirachi promo is only available for 2 weeks before you never see it again in the shop? Why can't I buy EX boxes like I can in real life? Why can't I buy packs from sets that are no longer standard? There is no analog in real life. Nobody has to "Hope" a local Target is going to carry a good bundle this week. They carry them all the time. Putting the "non-standard" items in the shop permanently so anyone can buy them whenever they want would open the door to more people building competitive expanded decks. Plus it would make it even more logical to put standard stuff on the ladder for new players, since experienced players could still get their fix with coins, etc.

 

honestly that makes so much sense, they used to have expanded packs in the shop before rotation hapepend and it changed to XY onwards, really would love to see what you said implimented 

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Don't take this as factual because this is just my speculation, but it's very much possible for leftover packs from discontinued expansions to continue existing and circulating for long after they stopped producing them. In my country it's already completely impossible to buy Expanded packs from a store because we're a small country and the leftover stock was sold out a while back already, and we're not receiving any more stock in the present.

Since in the game it's all virtual they can just pull out the packs the same day they rotate out of standard.

This is exactly what is going on.

 

If you look at the Pokemon Center website, once they sell out of something, it is permanently out of stock. The rest of the world still has the packs, because of old inventory or private collectors/hoarders.

 

And when TCGO rotates out the Expanded pack, they are instantly unobtainable (though if they are bought with gems, then private Collectors will still have them)

 

In any case, think of the shop as PokemonCenter. They can "sell out" and once they do, you have to track down packs in the "real world"

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These are imaginary cards, though.  There is no such thing as "out of stock" (see the fact that they are passing out thousands of full art "N's" this month).  

 

More to the point, they frequently sell bundles or theme decks from older sets in the shop as a special 2 week available item.  They are willing to let you get some of the cards, they just are artificially keeping them scarce.  

 

In other words, there is no physical limitation that would prevent them from having those cards in the shop all the time (they can't run out!  Its just electrons!).  And there is no good reason that things should ever leave the shop (the software code for the packs exist, its being maintained to support expanded/unlimited anyway, etc).

 

What you should ask yourself is this:  Why do they limit what is available in the shop to a limited window?  Why can't a new player just scroll through the shop and buy  last September's Lucario Bundle?  Its not a money thing - they were willing to offer that bundle free for a limited time, what makes making that permanent a bad idea?

 

 

 

 

All of this is an aside.  The main point was and continues to be this:  The ladder is the best opportunity for a newbie to slowly graduate into an experienced player with a formidable collection.  taking a 6 month hiatus from allowing them to do that is a mistake.  Doubling down by ALSO not including formidable standard cards in any bundles in the shop just makes the situation worse.  Combined these two strategies may milk a little extra money out of the current diehards, but they will prevent MANY more people from ever getting involved enough to BECOME diehards.  Just my Opinion. 

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