How to counter "item lock" opponents

[Megatrev]

Ran into vile plume and Trevenant in back to back games and felt helpless... I have been playing a mega Mewtwo / Zoroark deck and without spirit link, professors letter, vs seeker, ultra ball I was shut down pretty much immediately.

 

Any advice appreciated.

[seminc]

Hex Maniac from Ancient Origins can take out Vileplume lock for long enough to kill it with Zoroark or MegaTwo.

[Megatrev]

Oh. Thanks! I have seen hex maniac in some similar decks and didn't put two and two together. Would at least let a vs seeker to Lysander

[GonzoMD1993]

You could play a garbodor deck xd

[fr33land]

Yes, but how to get that tool onto Garbodor?  Also, how do I balance having a consistent setup for my attacker and increase my chances of Wally - Garbodor on turn 1 so it's effective in stopping the Hoopa Shaymin Rush deck?  How much deck space should I devote to Gabodor?

2-2 Garbodor

2 Level Ball

2 Heavy Ball

2 Wally?

[GonzoMD1993]

I don't think that you can rely on getting a turn 1 garbodor and starting. There are ways of getting the garbodor out early but whether you start or not is 50-50, so there's no guarantee that you can stop the shaymin and hoopa turn 1 rush.

 

Against item locks you just need to not get item locked turn 1 if you do not get to start. So long as you can attach a tool turn 1 you're good. I guess you could also add a hex maniac to undo the lock the turn you attach the tool, after which you get a permanent ability lock.

[fr33land]

How many Vileplume decks will run a Startling Megaphone tech?  And you are right. . . sacrificing everything so you can Wally Garbs isn't a great idea. That's the thing, Wally and Trevenant XY will work and turn 1 Vileplume is a thing.

[GonzoMD1993]

I guess you're right. Good thing item lock decks arent common (if they are, I somehow manage to run into very few of them).

[danielpeebles]

lysandre.  enough can't be said about lysandre.

[rgp151]

Item lock is becoming more common thanks to the new Phantump, which, IMO, is over powered. The new Phantump it really one of the most powerful cards in the game right now IMO. 

 

In my Trevenant deck now I went from 4 Wall down to 2 Wally, because if I go second then I can pretty much rely on using Phantump, but I still have 2 Wally and 2 Battle Compressors and 4 VS Seeker to give a good chance at getting turn 1 Trev if I go first at well. 

 

Right now, the only deck that really can stand up to good Trevenent decks are darkness decks due to weakness. 

 

Turn 1 Garbo is basically impossible, do not even consider that a strategy. I run Garbo/Lucario, which I think is pretty much the best possible partner for Garbo due to Korrina, and even with that I'm lucky to get turn 2 Garbotoxin, if not turn 3. It's a real weakness of Garbo IMO. So may games I've either lost or had a much harder time because of not being able to stop the turn 1 abilities. 

 

I see a lot of people now having HUGE turn 1s. Lots of people get fully setup on turn 1, and with Max Elixir even get multiple energy attached.

 

So, while I was originally really psyched / worried about Garbodor, I'm less enthusiastic now. Garbo/Seismitoad still makes sense, because you can get the turn 1 item lock to slow them down enough while you get Garbo setup, but you need a backup attacker, because Toad by itself and keeping the item lock does work anymore. 

 

IMO, Toad/Garbo is more to establish an early and mid lock to slow them down while you setup something else to attack with.

 

But, really, IMO Trev is the better locker because you can get the turn 1 lock even when you go first.

 

Wobbuffet is a better option to stop both the turn 1 Trev item lock and early setup.

 

I'm probably going to start running Wob in more decks...

[fr33land]

Yeah, Ascension is gross.  It's worth having only 50 hp since if you are able to attack or get D-Valley you evolve before your opponent's second turn.  If you go first, you try for Wally since that is a great thing for the Break too.

Item lock sucks.  It's what makes stage 2 pokemon so hard to play.  I'm only hoping it doesn't become so common in Standard, but Trevenant Break is going to plague us with it for a while.  I can't Korrina - Rare Candy and use Hex Maniac at the same time, that's why I'm so interested in Garbodor right now.

[runnyriver]

Wobbuffet is a better option to stop both the turn 1 Trev item lock and early setup.

 

I'm probably going to start running Wob in more decks...

 

I was thinking the OP could uses Wobbuffet to stop the majority of the abilities. 

[GonzoMD1993]

I was thinking the OP could uses Wobbuffet to stop the majority of the abilities.

 

Wob won't stop turn 1 trev though, which was his main concern. It does stop the turn 1 shaymin setup though, which hinders your opponents ability to obtain a turn 1 trev.

[runnyriver]

Good call on bringing it back to Trevenant, Gonzo.  Wob won't stop him, but Trevenant won't stop Wally, which gets you the Garbodor (assuming a good opening hand).

 

I think stoping a Shaymin or multi Shaymin setup is worth the extra spot on the bench.  You just gotta figure out if turn 1 Wob is worth 2-4 other cards currently in the deck. 

[fr33land]

Lysandre is a good thing to have multiple copies of in case of Trevenant I suppose, and it can help immensely in stalling Vileplume, requiring them to use AZ to get it out of active.  Give you time to find a Hex Maniac or KO it.  I'm thinking Garbodor is still a very good play, even though it may not be as fast is the ability based item lock available it's still pretty awesome.

[Xensor]

idk with most item lock decks i been able to use supporters not item cards. but with me, the ones i also came across decked out or just plain lost due to me having my links for mewtwo already attached on first hand. also you can use ace specs (idk if its a bug or not) but thats if your expanded. yes i was able to use my ace spec while the item lock was in affect. love computer search used that to get a few items that helped with the item lock.

when i would ko the one poke they would rage quit, but i will say. they are a annoying and hassle to deal with. but i guess it really depends on what you have to use. now potions since i depend on those that can hurt me tho. and that unfort is a downside to this deck. but as for the links. well half the time i barely need them. cause xball is my friend.

i will sometimes just spam energy enough to ohko without mega and watch as they start to rage.

but i would like to know what would be a good way of getting past the toad guy. that is a pain. something a ohko in one turn or 2 can do. specially with mewtwo (without the mega tho).

[seminc]

idk with most item lock decks i been able to use supporters not item cards. but with me, the ones i also came across decked out or just plain lost due to me having my links for mewtwo already attached on first hand. also you can use ace specs (idk if its a bug or not) but thats if your expanded. yes i was able to use my ace spec while the item lock was in affect. love computer search used that to get a few items that helped with the item lock.

when i would ko the one poke they would rage quit, but i will say. they are a annoying and hassle to deal with. but i guess it really depends on what you have to use. now potions since i depend on those that can hurt me tho. and that unfort is a downside to this deck. but as for the links. well half the time i barely need them. cause xball is my friend.

i will sometimes just spam energy enough to ohko without mega and watch as they start to rage.

but i would like to know what would be a good way of getting past the toad guy. that is a pain. something a ohko in one turn or 2 can do. specially with mewtwo (without the mega tho).

 

ACE SPECs are items and thusly should be blocked by lock decks.

[Xensor]

ACE SPECs are items and thusly should be blocked by lock decks.

thats why i said idk if its a bug or not. cause i could use it.

[rgp151]

I'm getting so sick of item lock. I have several Trevenant decks myself, but they aren't my favorite to play. I played today and literally about 50% of the decks were Trevenant, and of those about 90% got turn 1 item lock. Three times I got turn 1 item lock against me, into a Judge or Red Card. So in all o those games I quit on turn 1.

 

Sorry, but this is just not a fun deck to play against, and IMO, its ruining game play. I don't know why Pokemon does this. People don't like game play that basically stops people from being able to play. People want to play the game, not be prevented from playing the game.

[olafviking]

im probably not qualified to talk on the subject but my 2 cents is that item lock is nice because its sortove a timer that you need to stop before you get locked out of what you play. but the ability to win or lose with a deck coming down to a coin flip to see who goes first is not good. personaly to combat the few trevenent decks i have run against i have a malamar teched in. the one with the switch to confuse ability to just cycle around his bench. i also use the inky with the ability to evolve when confused so i dont have to rely on ultra balls or evo soda. personaly the malimar has come in big for me along with the fact that it is really nice way to just grab any card i want with compress into junk grab. another plus is that it only requiers 1 darkness energy for the junk atack but any energy to switch so i can just cycle my oponents poke around. works especialy well with a zoroke with a float stone to rush in and either pull up the malamar or my heavy hitters. i mean if worst comes to worst we just will start seeing hex maniac run more. but thought i might include my tec card(not realy a tec considering its a nice card vs most matchups but it helps with this)

[fr33land]

One supporter per turn. 

Hex Maniac might turn off the ability, but having to play it or search for it constantly basically becomes your entire game.

Between all the item lock available right now this game certainly is becoming simply excruciating to play.

I am definitely not a fan of lock decks.  There's nothing worse than drawing and passing your turn.  It's not fun.

It's a strategy that I kind of view as overly competitive.  Obviously, no one likes losing, but at least playing the game ought to be enjoyable.

 

I do like that Malamar AOR, you're right, attacks for one energy and actually 2-shots Trevenant.  Too bad Trevenant Break has 160 HP or whatever.  You can Trash Tentacle Hex and use Muscle Band though, or Entangling Control whatever other pokemon they've got.  Having a way to switch Vileplume into active that doesn't use up your supporter is a great thing too, often times those players don't have that many outs to switch back into Regice or Vespiquen or whatevs.  That still leaves the Toad, mind you.

[DoubleJR012]

I don't even run Wallys in my Trev deck. Going 2nd is too good! If you set it up properly you can even attack with Gengar-EX on your 2nd turn(if you devote 2 energy to him first 2 turns if he is on bench.) With D-valley help for ascending Phantump on turn 1 of course after choosing to play 2nd to get the ascension off. I've pulled this off quite a bit but you do need help with Skyla and/or ultra-ball/Shaymin/card draw sometimes. Oh, & a float stone to retreat of course. If you don't get the stone though you can possibly try evolving to Trev Break and doing 30 across the board which is a decent fall back if things don't work out. I run two or 3 Double Colorless Energy to even attack with Trevanant if I want with Tree Slam on my 2nd turn.

 

Basically your 2nd turn there are lots of possibilities by choosing to play 2nd is what I am saying...

[fr33land]

Yeah, I'd use the new Phantump too. . . 50 HP but a useful attack.   You are giving them a turn to set up, but gauranteed their second turn is locked.

[rgp151]

Nah, its still best to go first. Depends on the level of play I suppose, but a lot of my opponents are getting massive turn 1 setups these days. Not uncommon at all for people to totally fill the bench and play like 10 items on turn 1. I even had a guy play 4 Max Elixers on turn 1 getting 4 total energy into play on turn 1 with Mega Manectric, plus they had 2 in the discard pile, plus Spirit Link, and a Mega in hand. 

 

Nah, if you are trying to item lock, then Wally and going first is still best. 

[heresh]

Seismitoad: do what you can in turn 1 or 2. Seismitoad is likely to be knocked out first by your pokemons.

Trevenant: lysandre, hex maniac

Vileplume: hex maniac