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Raticate BREAK/Ariados Viable?


BerryBlox

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If you need it Pineco must already be on your bench, since you cannot evolve Foretress in the same turn you play Pineco.  You might know immediately that Ariados is not going to work and bench it early game, or half of it might be prized.  I guess that would be my reason.  You are going to have AZ I suppose for Shaymin EX anyway, it can do double duty for Foretress if you need to use it twice.  Whereas Celebi has a 50% chance of going back into your deck if it's revenge killed as it is likely to be.  Also, you cannot Level Ball Foretress.

You probably want a few spaces on the bench so you can be sure you have a constant stream of Raticate, since they'll be in different stages of evolution more than likely, so you're not likely to bench pineco every game.

Then again, the usefulness of Shaymin EX has to be somewhat reduced if Brigette and Winona are the only search cards you bring that can seek it out.

I dunno, that's my take on it.  I should put the usual disclaimer that I'm no expert.

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If you don't have a Stadium card in mind, Faded Towns would be good to finish off Megas like M Sceptile when Ariados can't. That is, once it's reinstated into TCGO in February.

The stadium i had in mind was Parallel City to lower the opponen't bench but tbh Faded town is probably better for this deck (assuming they'd fix the bug by BP's release of course) .... well technically they're both cities/towns :D

 

Why not Foretress over Celebi?

Celebi does the same thing that Forretress does without a need for adding a preevolution (Pineco) and has a useful ability and AT Stop, so Celebi is definitly better than Spinda and Forretress for this deck imo

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Just thought about this, but Dragalge's Poison Barrier + Raticate's Dirty Shock can make this happen, but it needs 2 turns :/

Yes its a bit slow, and if that was an ability it would've been awesome, no need for Ariados at all but the whole point of this deck is to KO anything in 1 turn, Grass will be a problem for it .... sadly, but on the bright side other than Vespiquen & Sceptile-EX there aren't really any good grass decks !!

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this basically already existed with lasers and super-fang raticate from boundries crossed.

 

it will be about as powerful as current ariodos decks are with sceptile-ex and machamp-ex

neither of which really dominate the meta currently.

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Is Raticate BREAK and Ariados something that would be good in tournaments? I want to make some competitive decks so I can learn more about what is good in the current meta.

 

Probably, but you would have to stream only those 2 pokes almost entirely, and keep the techs to a minimum. The problem is that raticate break is essentially a stage 2 in terms of deck space. It's not a bad idea to use though now that Virizion is out of standard play, but keep in mind that it WILL NOT work so great against grass type decks considering ariados doesn't effect them. Having a back up strategy or maybe even running fortress (the spike dropping one) could help.

 

A more viable and nifty strategy would be to use trevenant break WITH raticate break. Using the trevenant stage 1 with "forest's curse" then playing the break evolution onto it will retain that powerful item lock ability which can help with the slowness of the deck settup. Additionally trevenant break with that stage 1 as its base becomes powerful just by itself, being able to spread a lot of damage very easily and quickly.

The strategy would be pretty simple, use raticate to line up some pokemon in the KO range (probably using lysandre to help spread the damage around), then procede to use trevenant as the finishing punch! It's more well rounded and less easily countered than ariados + raticate I would think, but I'm not sure considering I haven't tried either variant myself.

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this basically already existed with lasers and super-fang raticate from boundries crossed.

 

it will be about as powerful as current ariodos decks are with sceptile-ex and machamp-ex

neither of which really dominate the meta currently.

But nobody cared enough to use it back then and we didn't have +200 hp cards then (almost ... looking in disgust at wailord) and Raticat Break has 110 Hp instead of that ridiculously low 60 BCR Rat had,

And this deck is obviously NOT gonna be top tier but it can be really fun to use, but again we must test it to be sure !!

 

Probably, but you would have to stream only those 2 pokes almost entirely, and keep the techs to a minimum. The problem is that raticate break is essentially a stage 2 in terms of deck space. It's not a bad idea to use though now that Virizion is out of standard play, but keep in mind that it WILL NOT work so great against grass type decks considering ariados doesn't effect them. Having a back up strategy or maybe even running fortress (the spike dropping one) could help.

 

A more viable and nifty strategy would be to use trevenant break WITH raticate break. Using the trevenant stage 1 with "forest's curse" then playing the break evolution onto it will retain that powerful item lock ability which can help with the slowness of the deck settup. Additionally trevenant break with that stage 1 as its base becomes powerful just by itself, being able to spread a lot of damage very easily and quickly.

The strategy would be pretty simple, use raticate to line up some pokemon in the KO range (probably using lysandre to help spread the damage around), then procede to use trevenant as the finishing punch! It's more well rounded and less easily countered than ariados + raticate I would think, but I'm not sure considering I haven't tried either variant myself.

Theoritically the Best tech vs grass decks would be AT Celebi or Spinda but again Grass deck aren't that common save for Sceptile-Ex and god save the Queen, and I don't think mixing Trev Break in will be good since it is also a Stage 2, I am thou going to try both separate decks !!

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But nobody cared enough to use it back then and we didn't have +200 hp cards then (almost ... looking in disgust at wailord) and Raticat Break has 110 Hp instead of that ridiculously low 60 BCR Rat had,

And this deck is obviously NOT gonna be top tier but it can be really fun to use, but again we must test it to be sure !!

 

Theoritically the Best tech vs grass decks would be AT Celebi or Spinda but again Grass deck aren't that common save for Sceptile-Ex and god save the Queen, and I don't think mixing Trev Break in will be good since it is also a Stage 2, I am thou going to try both separate decks !!

 

The reason why streaming 2 essentially stage 2 pokemon in a deck like this would work, is because the evo line for raticate would be quite small (im thinking maybe 3-2-2 at most) but pushing mostly trev who can handle itself quite well (maybe a (4-3-3 line). And that's almost entirely it for pokemon. Keep in mind time puzzle (I think is what it's called) is coming out in the next set, which can retrieve 2 cards from the discard pile if 2 of them are played at once. This would help stream more raticate if one of yours gets knocked out and the pieces for another one are prized.

 

Essentially the deck is focusing almost purely on trevenant and its ability to spread damage and lock down abilities. Adding a few other key cards in might help, like enhanced hammers to slow down the opponents' deck. Basically the idea is to just slow em down enough that you can line up 1 or 2 really solid KO's with raticate! that would be some impressive damage against all the big basics and megas out there :D

 

Grass pokemon might also gain popularity to help combat an increase in water archetype decks due to some additional water support this next set (though it's probably not gonna be too much of an increase).

 

I think it's an interesting topic, and I'm curious to see when sceptile will gain more play. It seems quite a bit more viable now with fisherman reprinted being able to directly put discarded grass energies back into your hand to heal and accelerate onto your pokemon. I think we'll have to see what the meta is gonna be like!

Thanks for the discussion :)

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The reason why streaming 2 essentially stage 2 pokemon in a deck like this would work, is because the evo line for raticate would be quite small (im thinking maybe 3-2-2 at most) but pushing mostly trev who can handle itself quite well (maybe a (4-3-3 line). And that's almost entirely it for pokemon. Keep in mind time puzzle (I think is what it's called) is coming out in the next set, which can retrieve 2 cards from the discard pile if 2 of them are played at once. This would help stream more raticate if one of yours gets knocked out and the pieces for another one are prized.

 

Essentially the deck is focusing almost purely on trevenant and its ability to spread damage and lock down abilities. Adding a few other key cards in might help, like enhanced hammers to slow down the opponents' deck. Basically the idea is to just slow em down enough that you can line up 1 or 2 really solid KO's with raticate! that would be some impressive damage against all the big basics and megas out there :D

 

Grass pokemon might also gain popularity to help combat an increase in water archetype decks due to some additional water support this next set (though it's probably not gonna be too much of an increase).

 

I think it's an interesting topic, and I'm curious to see when sceptile will gain more play. It seems quite a bit more viable now with fisherman reprinted being able to directly put discarded grass energies back into your hand to heal and accelerate onto your pokemon. I think we'll have to see what the meta is gonna be like!

Thanks for the discussion :)

I'm expecting Sceptile to see more play when BP comes out

 

Again i don't agree with mixing Trev Break with Raticate, if you want you can check out the decklist i'll be trying in an early post in this thread, and i'll also be using a Trevenant Break / Bat deck as well !

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Wow a lot has happened since I have been gone. I love all the discussion. One thing I wanted to add is that people are saying that there hasn't been a lot of support added for evolutions with things like fighting spirit belt BP, but with Raticate BREAK, it doesn't matter how much HP the defending Pokemon has.

 

Remember that one deck that had Suicune and Wailord EX, and the point of the deck is to wait until your opponent ran out of cards? Well Raticate BREAK could wreck that deck because it's not an EX, and Wailord EX's hp is not a problem. I guess one problem with that is rough seas, but with red card, delinquent, and a counter stadium, that matchup would be so awesome and funny! :D

 

EDIT: I love the idea of Celebi AT and Faded town, but I think I missed out on getting the Celebi promo... Dang it!

 

EDIT 2: Also what do you guys think about the Meowstic EX + Olympia combo? You could use Raticate BREAK to get them down to 10 HP, then next turn use Olympia, heal 30 damage from Raticate BREAK, and take a damage counter and knock out the Pokemon that has 10 HP! That is of course if those two cards are released in BREAKpoint...

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grass hates fire. so put some fire into your deck so if you come across any grass you would be able to keep the break save til its actually time to bring it out. but that does not always work. or if the break is weak against grass type i suggest using the tool that removes weakness (weakness policy). its a good tool to use. i have used it with mewtwo ex about a decent amount of times.

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Wow a lot has happened since I have been gone. I love all the discussion. One thing I wanted to add is that people are saying that there hasn't been a lot of support added for evolutions with things like fighting spirit belt BP, but with Raticate BREAK, it doesn't matter how much HP the defending Pokemon has.

 

Remember that one deck that had Suicune and Wailord EX, and the point of the deck is to wait until your opponent ran out of cards? Well Raticate BREAK could wreck that deck because it's not an EX, and Wailord EX's hp is not a problem. I guess one problem with that is rough seas, but with red card, delinquent, and a counter stadium, that matchup would be so awesome and funny! :D

 

EDIT: I love the idea of Celebi AT and Faded town, but I think I missed out on getting the Celebi promo... Dang it!

 

EDIT 2: Also what do you guys think about the Meowstic EX + Olympia combo? You could use Raticate BREAK to get them down to 10 HP, then next turn use Olympia, heal 30 damage from Raticate BREAK, and take a damage counter and knock out the Pokemon that has 10 HP! That is of course if those two cards are released in BREAKpoint...

Those cards won't be released for XY9 i'm sure, but it's too much to add, I think  adding 1-2 Celebi or Spinda, or even Shaymin-ex will solve our Grass problem !

And HP won't matter at all in this deck, Wailord or not ... :P

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Guys, guys, guys.

XY baseset Gourgeist. It can do both the Raticate/Doublade thing AND the Spinda/Celebi thing! 

 

If Raticate/Doublade get killed and DIDN'T get to Super Fang or False Swipe on their last turn, Gourgeist can come in and do it for a Revenge Kill. The catch is that she'll get revenge-killed too since she also nearly KOs herself with the move, but it's worth the sacrifice IMO while you set up another Raticate/Doublade.

 

If Raticate/Doublade DID get the Super Fang/False Swipe but Ariados couldn't poison the pokemon, you can switch in Gourgeist to kill him instead of Celebi/Spinda. She can do 20 damage to each of the opponent's pokemon. 

 

But she's a Stage 1... She's definitely better in the Celebi/Spinda position but the utility of being able to let her play the Raticate/Doublade position too is interesting.

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  • 3 weeks later...

in Viable and top Tear deck, we can find only two grass type deck, Sceptile EX and Vespiqueen.

With out muscle band, Sceptile EX can't OHKO Raticate ( even it's 1 stage ) because it's ability. so I can't OHKO them and they can't either so It's my win because we are not EX. 

about Vespiqueen....we are gonna lose. or try using target whistle + lysandre to KO Shaymin 3 times.

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i think the deck would be good against the EX decks, but if you run to those speed deck, i dont think you will last with the raticate it would get one shot and lucario can own it easy. 

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  • 2 months later...

Spinda / Bats / Celebi were meant to finish off the pokemon whin it has only 10 HP left, not as attackers ....

 

Here's my Decklist for this deck (it will definitly see a lotta change when XY9 comes out thou)

 

 

 

Pokemon: 18

 

4-4-4 Raticate

 

2-2 Ariados

 

1 Shaymin-EX

 

1 Celebi AT

 

 

 

Trainer: 34

 

4 Sycamore

 

3 Birch

 

2 Lysandre

 

1 Delinquent

 

1 Az

 

1 Brigette

 

1 Skyla

 

1 Winona

 

 

 

4 Level Ball

 

4 Vs Seeker

 

3 Parallel City

 

3 Hard Charm

 

2 Assault Vest

 

2 Escape Rope

 

1 Sacred Ash

 

1 Startling Megaphone

 

 

 

Energy: 8

 

4 DCE

 

4 Grass

 

 

 

This decklist definitly be changed thou

 

Do you have an updated list I could look at?

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