[GAME] General - Insight into opponent's hand if they only have 1 Pokémon

[MTGPhazer]

When starting a new game you can tell if your opponent only had one starter Pokemon or if they have more. You can tell that they decided not to bench Pokemon, but you know they have at least one basic in their hand aside from their Starter. Any and all insight into your opponent's hand should be strictly forbidden.

[Adhir1995]

IM confused at what you mean, there is nothing in the rules that says that cant happen

[graywh]

When your opponent has no other basics in hand, the game doesn't wait for the user to click a button to end the process of selecting benched pokemon to start the game.  The lack of a pause, going directly to putting out prize cards, tells you that your opponent has no other basics in hand.  It has nothing to do with the rules.

[MTGPhazer]

Adhir, I'm not talking about cards that help you see your opponent's hand or anything like that. It's a timing thing with the forcing of your only Basic Starter Pokemon when the game first begins. Nobody can possibly click and choose the Pokemon as fast as the game automatically does it so you can tell it was the one and only Basic in their starting hand. That's not right. You should have zero idea as to what cards are in your opponent's hand, UNLESS the game has begun and a card has been played to do so.

 

I'm not suggesting the fix either, that's up to the Devs who should have realized in the first place to do everything necessary to stop such a thing from ever happening.

 

I will however, be glad to play a Dev and tell them what their starter hand contains in the way of Basic Pokes as proof it's possible

[SirTrainALot]

Assuming this is true, and the write up makes perfect sense, this should make it fairly obvious that this release was not tested by anyone actually serious about Pokemon TCG. Good catch, MTGPhazer.

 

Pokemon's marketing group (probably who's in charge of online gameplay, not the devs) needs to understand that an existing customer is way more valuable than a potential one - and part of retention  is a quality, fair online game. Make the game playable and avoid stupid mistakes like these so existing customers who actually buy cards don't move on to other games.

[TurnBasedPlayer]

When starting a new game you can tell if your opponent only had one starter Pokemon or if they have more. You can tell that they decided not to bench Pokemon, but you know they have at least one basic in their hand aside from their Starter. Any and all insight into your opponent's hand should be strictly forbidden.

That particular tell isn't that relevant.

 

What is relevant are things like M Sceptile stalling for even one second, meaning the opponent has at least 1 Grass energy, which can really make a difference in gameplay.

 

As to knowing if your opponent opened 1 or more basics, that's irrelevant because even if you do know that, it won't affect any decision making,  

[kalendae]

wow these are huge things affecting the integrity of play.

[MTGPhazer]

That particular tell isn't that relevant.

 

What is relevant are things like M Sceptile stalling for even one second, meaning the opponent has at least 1 Grass energy, which can really make a difference in gameplay.

 

As to knowing if your opponent opened 1 or more basics, that's irrelevant because even if you do know that, it won't affect any decision making,  

 

Okay, I'll give an example.

You're playing Archie's Blastoise; something that uses Exeggcute. (Ho-Oh is another example where this could change things)

You go 2nd.

I know based on matchup animation what types are in your deck. You start by placing a Keldeo EX in Starter and an Articuno AT on bench, also telling me what deck you're playing.

Here's where it happens. You still have one or two Exeggcutes/Ho-Oh in hand and take a second to click not to play them; why would you bench Exeggcutes or Ho-Oh?

 

Either way, I N rather purposefully.

 

ANY insight, is wrong.

[jbcheshire]

Okay, I'll give an example.

You're playing Archie's Blastoise; something that uses Exeggcute. (Ho-Oh is another example where this could change things)

You go 2nd.

I know based on matchup animation what types are in your deck. You start by placing a Keldeo EX in Starter and an Articuno AT on bench, also telling me what deck you're playing.

Here's where it happens. You still have one or two Exeggcutes/Ho-Oh in hand and take a second to click not to play them; why would you bench Exeggcutes or Ho-Oh?

 

Either way, I N rather purposefully.

 

ANY insight, is wrong.

 

He is exactly correct in this is why any "tips" on what the other player has in their hand should not be allowed by the TCGO.  If the person does it in real life, then that is on them, not some automated program...

[Adhir1995]

Okay, I'll give an example.

You're playing Archie's Blastoise; something that uses Exeggcute. (Ho-Oh is another example where this could change things)

You go 2nd.

I know based on matchup animation what types are in your deck. You start by placing a Keldeo EX in Starter and an Articuno AT on bench, also telling me what deck you're playing.

Here's where it happens. You still have one or two Exeggcutes/Ho-Oh in hand and take a second to click not to play them; why would you bench Exeggcutes or Ho-Oh?

 

Either way, I N rather purposefully.

 

ANY insight, is wrong.

 

Wait wait are you compairing this to real life tcg? where there is no pause on placing benched pokemon? but I Remember it was like this in the old 2.31 Version so I dont see a problem, unless you are talking about it as a whole. But wait, this doesnt make sense to me because at the beginning of any match you have to choose your active pokemon, now if you take time to choose your active that tells me you have other pokemon that could potentially be benched. So what exactly is the point in this argument? I understand the no insight thing but it cant be helped if you draw like 4 basics and have to choose which one to be your active

[graywh]

Wait wait are you compairing this to real life tcg? where there is no pause on placing benched pokemon? but I Remember it was like this in the old 2.31 Version so I dont see a problem, unless you are talking about it as a whole. But wait, this doesnt make sense to me because at the beginning of any match you have to choose your active pokemon, now if you take time to choose your active that tells me you have other pokemon that could potentially be benched. So what exactly is the point in this argument? I understand the no insight thing but it cant be helped if you draw like 4 basics and have to choose which one to be your active

 

MTGPhazer gave you a bad example.  Yes, there's an unavoidable pause when selecting a basic when you start with more than one.  The problem is that there's an UNavoidable lack of a pause when you start with a single basic in hand.  That tells your opponent you have no other basics in your hand.

 

Edit: Also, the pause does tell your opponent you have other basics in hand if you don't bench any.

[MTGPhazer]

I understand the no insight thing but it cant be helped if you draw like 4 basics and have to choose which one to be your active

 

Of course it can be helped. Like I said earlier, I'm not suggesting the fix. They should've known better.

 

MTGPhazer gave you a bad example.    .    .    .    The problem is that there's an UNavoidable lack of a pause when you start with a single basic in hand.  That tells your opponent you have no other basics in your hand.

 

Ok, now that I think about it, I guess you choose all benched Pokes at the same time huh? Thanks for making that clear Graywh.

Say though, I didn't have any basic starters and you get to draw another card. You draw the card and it doesn't give you a second to bench the card, it's obviously not a Basic. There are just so many ways it can give away the smallest of hints.

[Danage15]

I agree with op, having it revealed that a player only has a single basic pokemon to play reveals too much. When i see that they only have a single card i play much more aggressively then i normally would to secure a fast win. Many plays and discarding cards i normally wouldn't because I'm going to take the fast win, etc.

[Cefiro]

Honestly, both players should be choosing their starters in one "phase" that runs simultaneously - as in both players put the card down at the same time, and then the second phase is also simultaneous between both players where they put down benched pokemon.

Maybe this is super hard to code or something since the rest of the game is turn-based, but not only would it drastically speed up the time it takes to get the game going, it would also remove this "tell" which you describe.

[graywh]

Honestly, both players should be choosing their starters in one "phase" that runs simultaneously - as in both players put the card down at the same time, and then the second phase is also simultaneous between both players where they put down benched pokemon.

 

Maybe this is super hard to code or something since the rest of the game is turn-based, but not only would it drastically speed up the time it takes to get the game going, it would also remove this "tell" which you describe.

 

Not necessarily.  Your solution doesn't seem to handle the case when both players only have a single basic.  Also, you are required to choose your starter before viewing your opponent's hand when he takes a mulligan.

 

The real solution is to have players click "Done" after choosing benched pokemon even when they start with a single basic.

[MTGPhazer]

Not necessarily.  Your solution doesn't seem to handle the case when both players only have a single basic.  Also, you are required to choose your starter before viewing your opponent's hand when he takes a mulligan.

 

The real solution is to have players click "Done" after choosing benched pokemon even when they start with a single basic.

 

Quit working for free. We did enough in reporting the problem, Devs get paid to find solutions. It's not like we'll even see a 50 cent code card for our time, but they're making $30,000+ a year to create these problems in the first place. You're basically paving the way for someone to make a living for barely using their own brain when it's people like you who should be the Devs. And go ahead, "Removed for inappropriate content - please keep on topic," so your Devs don't get their ickle feelings hurt.

[MTGPhazer]

I would also like whatever Mod decided to rename my post, to name it back. That Title is incorrect. It is closer to "Insight Into Basic Pokemon In Opponents Starter Hand."

 

The fact that my post was renamed to say "if they only have 1 pokemon," clearly shows the lack of understanding. It affects the game whether they have 1 Pokemon or 7 and everywhere in between.

[graywh]

Quit working for free. We did enough in reporting the problem, Devs get paid to find solutions. It's not like we'll even see a 50 cent code card for our time, but they're making $30,000+ a year to create these problems in the first place. You're basically paving the way for someone to make a living for barely using their own brain when it's people like you who should be the Devs.

 

Just trying to give helpful suggestions.  I think it's been demonstrated that the players know more about how the game should work than the devs.

[JamesPup]

I don't think the automatic of the game putting your only basic in hand as your active Pokemon is a big deal. It would just lead to people who stall the game as the opponent would have to wait for you to put your only Pokemon into play. Your right that if someone has a Pokemon in their hand at the start of the game it is usually put on the bench. Still I think people with the new Shamin-EX card would hold off on it it they arleady had a starter Pokemon. Also right nor only a few cards affect the opponents hand and so a person can be safe most times without putting down their ther Pokemon. Still if it is a card that can be evolved then tey will want to put it down. I guess I can live with people having it your way. Still I would like to see it where all the animation can be turned off. I used to be able to spend only like 2 minutes on my time during a game and now with animation I take like 5 mintues. I feel without animation I could play double the amount of games.

[MTGPhazer]

I don't think the automatic of the game putting your only basic in hand as your active Pokemon is a big deal.

 

This isn't a subject to be debated. This isn't open to interpretation or personal opinions. The fact is you should never know what cards are in your opponents hand; as with almost all card games ever.

[sterlingW]

I guess Pokemon TCGO they did not follow pokemon TCG Rules

 

Just like the Playmat Energy Card/Tool Card behind pokemon rules.

[Mod_Poplar]

Hey Trainers!

 

This issue has been reported to the Dev team, so I'll go ahead and close this thread.

 

Thanks for your patience while they look into it!