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One-Turn-Wins & extremely long turns


Chrolo

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Right now I am shortly before calling the whole game "dead", so I'm finally begging here for some changes.

I saw there were some posts where people utterly complained about Night March... but with the last two expansions we got a lot worse cards/abilities which are about to ruin the whole thing.

 

Roaring Skies brought the combination of Mega-Rayquaza, Shaymin-EX and Sky Field which was already extremely overpowerd and got now even stronger and more annoying with the addition of Hoopa-EX and its crazy ability.

 

But instead, 40% of all (upper level) players now seem to play the 'Giant Fan' and this really beats everything in stupidity.

I don't wanna say this tactic is dumb in itself, but it leads to players needing 5+ minutes for every turn and let their opponents get lost in sheer boredom.

Often enough they decide the whole match in their first(!!) turn, because with the help of cards like Shaymin+Scoop-Up, De-evolution-spray, Giant-Plant-Forest, Unown, Trainer's Mail, Acro Bike etc. it is possible to get up to EIGHT or even TEN times a new Shiftry in just ONE TURN.

Of course I acknowledge the idea behind it, but now every second players tries to use it because of its might, so the impact on the game is outrageous. Not only need some of those players more than 6,7 minutes for just one turn, the worst thing is when the only solution to defend it would be a deck with at least 20 Basic-Pokémon (which would make it vulnerable to all other decks because of its inconsistency).

I once asked one player why he has to use it and the answer was just "(I hate it too, but) Because other players did that to me" - and if everyone thinks like this I see this game absolutely dead in no time.

 

So at first I appeal to everyone to NOT use these combinations please.

 

I also thought a long time about possible solutions and the only thing which could change any of my concerns would be a complete ban of Shaymin-EX since it is the core of all those outrageous decks.

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every deck has its weakness, shaymins weakness is being the starting pokemon. there is no need for any cards to be banned. every deck has its flaws and all decks have luck. what happens if all 4 shiftrys are prized, what happens if your opponent has 4 seedot, scoop up and sprays in hand but no search/draw power at start. those can happen, not a single deck in the entire game can win 100%.

 

 

 

 

 

I built a claydol energy destroy deck that uses the Ancient Trait Baltoy, if you get baltoy as your starter,gg shiftry DEX cannot do anything vs baltoy.. and i found use of AO claydol since it can energy destroy, that can work vs other decks, deplete all of your opponents energy.

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every deck has its weakness, shaymins weakness is being the starting pokemon. there is no need for any cards to be banned. every deck has its flaws and all decks have luck. what happens if all 4 shiftrys are prized, what happens if your opponent has 4 seedot, scoop up and sprays in hand but no search/draw power at start. those can happen, not a single deck in the entire game can win 100%.

 

I built a claydol energy destroy deck that uses the Ancient Trait Baltoy, if you get baltoy as your starter,gg shiftry DEX cannot do anything vs baltoy.. and i found use of AO claydol since it can energy destroy, that can work vs other decks, deplete all of your opponents energy.

 

Can't say I'm really satisfied with the reaction to my post, but I'll try to find a useful counter (like Baltoy, right indeed) without losing efficiency against other decks and if its impossible or opponents still need more than 5 minutes I can still stop playing ^^'

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every deck has its weakness, shaymins weakness is being the starting pokemon. there is no need for any cards to be banned. every deck has its flaws and all decks have luck. what happens if all 4 shiftrys are prized, what happens if your opponent has 4 seedot, scoop up and sprays in hand but no search/draw power at start. those can happen, not a single deck in the entire game can win 100%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I built a claydol energy destroy deck that uses the Ancient Trait Baltoy, if you get baltoy as your starter,gg shiftry DEX cannot do anything vs baltoy.. and i found use of AO claydol since it can energy destroy, that can work vs other decks, deplete all of your opponents energy.

 

 

I can't say I agree even a little bit with your post.. I have just ***** an opponent starting with shaymin.. who had 2-2 nuzleaf shiftry in hand, and even accidentally discarded fogp and still won!!

 

 

 

as for four nuzleaf/shiftry/seedot prized.. really? do you really want to go into the odds of that happening? I mean if every person on ptcgo played shiftry deck 100 times, I still don't think we have the possible odds to go into that..

 

 

 

as for baltoy.. you can run max 4 in a deck- at which point it becomes an obsession with beating a deck.. if you play any non-baltoy basic, you're still risking a chance of getting the loss anyways, and if you don't play your shaymins- virtually every deck is gonna outspeed you.. eventually all shiftry decks will start teching something like vespiquen- if you can get all unowns into discard, it can ohko baltoy too.. then what?

 

 

 

even making a claydol deck isn't a very viable option as I'm pretty sure 80% of non-shiftry decks can beat it..

 

 

 

shiftry is an over-centralizing card and as a result I believe something should be done about it..

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Well for shaymin. I really don't agree. Every one these days just uses more than 40 cards turn 1. That is really overpowered for any deck ! You can't even counter it with all the decks. You end up people suggesting playing 4 wobbuffets to stop Shaymin EX. Well that isn't fair ! I have made a deck. Bad hands is always a part of this game which shaymin EX simply eliminates. I am not saying Ban Shaymin, I am asking for a complete full-proof counter that could be fit in every deck ! Not even asking that, I am actually just posing my thoughts on the Shaymin EX.

 

THanks for reading me.

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Can't say I'm really satisfied with the reaction to my post

What did you expect? You're crying for a ban of a card that isn't even as close to as bad as the only card that has been banned in x&y and beyond sets so far. Want to know what keeps shaymin-ex in check? having it as your starter, only able to draw for one or two cards

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The new Giant Fan deck type, has nothing to do with playing, it make the hole game a coin flip game.

A solution can be that, opponent don't get token and spinn on the wheel if the player win with out any damage don in the game. That shut stop the Token farmers for using 'Giant Fan' decks.

 

I have in long time notes that many ex Pokemon is overpowered. But in the last 3 set released the problem have grow. Now you "have" to have ex Pokemon in your deck to win a battle.

 

And the new M Sceptile-EX is a good example on a card with to much power. Ability to attack energy an use full heal? Use that with 2 float stone, and good luck bringing them down...

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What did you expect? You're crying for a ban of a card that isn't even as close to as bad as the only card that has been banned in x&y and beyond sets so far. Want to know what keeps shaymin-ex in check? having it as your starter, only able to draw for one or two cards

 

Sorry but I doubt that you played a lot recently. Nearly every player found solutions for overcome Shaymin's only weakness, there are still plenty of people who can win in their first turn even if Shaymin is their only starter. And this makes it even more overpowerd, don't you think so?

Sure, for Giant Fan there's a small possiblity that all Coin Flips end with tails like I once experienced when my Togepi survived 9 coinflips (in an 8-minute-round...) after which my opponent gave up in frustration :P but that was just once and no real fun because I had no influence on the whole game...

 

Btw you wanna compare it with Lysandre's Trump Card or what? Really...? I personally say Shaymin is way more powerful ;)

And as you see now, there's not only me "crying" over this issue destroying the meta-game.

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I have in long time notes that many ex Pokemon is overpowered. But in the last 3 set released the problem have grow. Now you "have" to have ex Pokemon in your deck to win a battle.

 

Until you realize that some decks at worlds, even at the top 8, didn't run a single EX Pokemon, and 2 of the top 8s being Night March, have only a small number which have the EX rule as a drawback instead of a strength. I wouldn't call them broken. Not before a few other cards that are.

 

Shaymin EX is slightly broken. It has its counters, yes, but it is broken in a sense that it speeds up the game too much by letting you draw through your deck entirely. However, it is significantly less broken than Uxie LA, and is now at, well, the fine line between broken and ok.

 

Shiftry shouldn't be banned. It is a legit card that allows you to delay an opponent's set up. I don't believe a ban would solve this problem, honestly. Instead, i propose that the win condition of (no Pokemon in play be tweaked slightly. Instead of it being a loss instantly the moment you have no Pokemon in play, make it a loss only if you have no Pokemon it play at the end of your turn, with perhaps your opponent taking a Prize every time you start your turn without a Pokemon.

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The Standard game is not broken (due to fan) but the Expanded game sure is. On the first day after AO came out the first two matches I played in Expanded were against Shrifty and got donked on turn 1 both times due to me having only the active pokemon and *********** taken up.

 

So, for Expanded, yeah I think they should ban Shrifty or rotate it out. Maybe it is being rotated out, but clearly it makes no sense with Forrest of Giant Growth.

 

Also, I like Shaymin, because they are easy to Lysander or snipe. For me any time I see a Shamyin I just think OHKO.

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  • 4 weeks later...

A lot of things need to change...i have even came across people that are about to lose and pretend to be afk and then do something before the 15 second time out....constantly...just to see if i quit.

- Negative cards like laser gun (where did we start using guns in the pokemon world whaaat?), the card used to "discard" pokemons...these and many other cards have nothing to do with the original idea around the pokemon world.

- That shiftry deck...night march....so many stuff.

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For me it is now like this:

if i see a lugia-ex or i realize it's a Vespiquen-Deck... i just forfeit.

There is no point. But good job getting all those mediocre cards i have out of the standard.

Because that Serperior with its 70 attack was really unbalanced -.-

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For me it is now like this:

if i see a lugia-ex or i realize it's a Vespiquen-Deck... i just forfeit.

There is no point. But good job getting all those mediocre cards i have out of the standard.

Because that Serperior with its 70 attack was really unbalanced -.-

You mean the one that healed for 30 hp? xD

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