Jump to content

Shiftry Donk – Welcome to the new Meta (Expanded)


Felidae_

Recommended Posts

Ancient Origins, the new expansion for the Pokemon TCG, is almost upon us and one of the most hyped cards is by far the new Stadium card “Giant Plant Forest”.

 

 

 

Each player's Grass Pokémon can evolve during his or her first turn or the turn he or she plays those Pokémon

 

 

 

Of course this card has the potential to lead to some pretty crazy turns and ideas for first turn Vileplume decks to shut of your opponents item cards from the get go have already been spread like wildfire.

 

However, if we take a step back from Standard and focus our attention on Expanded, we can see that there is one particular card, that isn't even a Grass type Pokemon, yet it could easily take over the format on its own.

 

I'm talking of course about the ever so lovely Shiftry from NXD, with the Ability “Giant Fan”.

 

 

 

When you play this Pokémon from your hand to evolve 1 of your Pokémon, you may flip a coin. If heads, choose 1 of your opponent's Pokémon. Your opponent shuffles that Pokémon and all cards attached to it into his or her deck.

 

 

 

Let's first start with a common misconception about Giant Plant Forest, because some newer players might ask themselves “Hey, if Shiftry is a Dark type Pokemon, how are you able to play with Giant Plant Forest?

 

The best way to describe the situation is to use Caterpie and Metapod as an example, as they both have the Ability adaptive Evolution, that works relatively similar to Giant Plant Forest.

 

Note how the basic and the stage 1 have this ability, but not the stage 2 Butterfree, that is because the keyword “Evolve” will only apply to the lowest Pokemon in the chain.

 

 

 

Caterpie evolves to Metapod who evolves to Butterfree. Since both Caterpie and Metapod are able to evolve in the same turn, its perfectly fine to have a Butterfree on the first turn, or in our example, just swap out the Butterfree line with a Shiftry line.

 

 

 

 

 

Alright, lets get to the deck list

 

 

 

Little Garden 1.0

 

 

 

Pokemon (19)

 

 

 

4 Seedot

 

4 Nuzleaf

 

4 Shiftry

 

4 Unown

 

3 Shaymin EX

 

 

 

Trainer (41)

 

 

 

4 Acro Bike

 

1 Battle Compressor

 

4 Bicycle

 

4 Devolution Spray

 

4 Level Ball

 

4 Recycle

 

1 Scoop Up Cyclone

 

4 Super Scoop Up

 

1 Switch / Escape Rope

 

4 Trainer’s Mail

 

4 UB

 

 

 

2 Professor Juniper

 

 

 

4 Forest of Giant Plants

 

 

 

 

 

Lets get over the cards real quick.

 

 

 

4-4-4 Shiftry line:

 

Plain and simple, I tested a 4-4-3, a 4-3-3 and even a 3-3-3 line, so far the added space to play cards such as Roserade with “Le *******” hasn't outweigh the chance of getting to many key cards in the prize pool.

 

 

 

4 Unown:

 

Another interesting card from the new set, that has the ability “Farewell Letter”.

 

 

 

Once during your turn (before your attack), if this Pokémon is on your Bench, you may discard this Pokémon and all cards attached to it (this does not count as a Knock Out). If you do, draw a card.

 

 

 

The card fullfills some crucial roles in the deck. First of all it's an easy method to trim the deck down to 56 cards. Furthermore they can decrease your hand size for Shaymin or Bicycle, while still being able to draw cards later on. Lastly, they just add more basic Pokemon to the deck, avoiding you to start with a Shaymin or, even worse, mulligan into oblivion, providing your opponent with extra cards, because the less Pokemon your opponent gets out, the better.

 

 

 

3 Shaymin EX:

 

We want to draw our entire deck on the first turn, so there is no way around this guy. One could try to run a 4th copy over Shiftry no. 4, but due to the limited space on our bench I usually don't play more than two of them per game anyway.

 

 

 

Acro Bike, Bicycle, Trainers Mail:

 

We want to get through the deck as quick and as efficient as possible.

 

In my first run of the deck I was running Roller Skates as well, but I soon figured out, that they do us no good, as they aren't reliable enough in the early part of the turn and even if they are successful, they usually don't provide more impact than the more consistent Bicycle.

 

 

 

Level Ball, UB:

 

Means to grab our Pokemon

 

 

 

Super Scoop Up, Scoop Up Cyclone, Devolution Spray:

 

In order to utilize both Shaymin, as well as Shiftry multiple times, we run the classic Scoop Up line.

 

Another card that is really important is Devolution Spray, as it increases the number of Shiftry drops by up to 4.

 

 

 

But doesn't the card clearly state “this Pokemon can't evolve this turn”?

 

 

 

Well I'm glad that you asked, let's look at a similar question that was asked on another website, together with the corresponding answer of a Judge.

 

 

 

User: Is Devolution Spray's "That Pokémon can't evolve this turn" a hard rule or a reminder text? To be more precise, if you use Devolution Spray on a Pokémon with Delta Evolution, can you evolve it again this turn?

 

If Broken Time-Space is in play, can you evolve a Pokémon that was just devolved by Devolution Spray?

 

 

 

Judge: It is in parentheses, so it is just reminder text.

 

The effects of those other cards will allow them to evolve right away.

 

 

 

Since Giant Plant Forest is basicly Broken Time Space 2.0 (or due to its limit 0.5), this will work just fine.

 

 

 

1 Battle Compressor:

 

Just a way to filter out unneeded cards (i.e. spare Stadium copies).

 

 

 

1 Switch / Escape Rope :

 

If you start with an Unown as your active Pokemon, you want to use this, as you can use “Farewell Letter” only on your bench. Escape Rope can also give an edge against an Opponent who starts the game with Wobbuffet.

 

 

 

2 Juniper:

 

I tested out multiple Supporter in the deck (Skyla, AZ, Juniper, N and even Wally), but Juniper has always performed the best in terms of overall stability. After all, there is a reason why this card is the undisputed number 1 supporter in the game.

 

 

 

4 Recycle:

 

Last but not least we have the poor man's Junk Arm, just a neat tool to get any card back.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some final words:

 

 

 

The deck is really fun to play and I encourage anyone who likes those kind of Solitaire decks to give it a try. I'm also aware that the deck is the prime example of a glass canon, as it can easily be forced into submission by a turn 1 Vileplum, an active Wobbuffet, or by going second and ****** a full bench of 5 Pokemon. Due to the coin flip nature of Shiftry, Recycle and Scoop Up, you can get anything from 5 to 12 Giant Fans in one game, thus you need to pray to lady luck for some good coin tosses.

 

I'm almost certain that this deck will shift the meta, because as it stands you need to have a good answer to those kind of turn 1 combo decks, or you will face a dire problem.

 

 

 

That's all from me for today.

 

 

 

What are your thoughts / ideas / deck lists for the archetype, do you thing it will wrap up the format, or remain a hidden sleeper in comparison to the big players of Expanded ?

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

Felidae_

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I place a single Wobuffet, Garbodor or Archeops....then what? You addressed this to some extent, but it's a major issue.

 

Don't get me wrong Felidae Shiftry strategy seems awesome, but how would you counter any of those cards? You would have literally ZERO outs...right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I place a single Wobuffet, Garbodor or Archeops....then what? You addressed this to some extent, but it's a major issue.

 

Don't get me wrong Felidae Shiftry strategy seems awesome, but how would you counter any of those cards? You would have literally ZERO outs...right?

 

Of course the deck has zero outs to them ( well Escape Rope could be a means to get rid of Wobbuffet). That's why is is called a "glass canon", because it can be very devastating, while being rather fragile at the same time.

 

However, Garbador doesn't concern the deck, because it will always go in on turn 1.

As for Archetops, your opponent would have to win the coin toss and run Maxies Hidden Ball Trick, in order to get the card into play on turn 1.

 

So with those two cards more or less out of the equation, the best counters to this deck are Wobbuffet, or Vielplume. As for the later one, it basically comes down to a coin toss.

As far as Wobbuffet is concerned, the card is usually only played in M-Groundon decks, or as a wall in Donphan versions, neither of those decks are particular popular in the Expanded Meta, although I could see a rise of popularity in the future, not necessary due to Shiftry, but rather as a means to counter Vileplume.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Felidae just a quick question , new set is included with theta stop AT pokemon preventing ability effects so if a user keep 2-3 of such type pokemon in deck . Will it not affect the deck strategy . So there must be some attackers in this deck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Felidae just a quick question , new set is included with theta stop AT pokemon preventing ability effects so if a user keep 2-3 of such type pokemon in deck . Will it not affect the deck strategy . So there must be some attackers in this deck.

 

Those are currently the cards that have the trait "Stop" "Prevent all effects of your opponent's Pokémon's Abilities done to this Pokémon"

 

M-Sceptile EX

Volcarona

Baltoy

Goluk

Porygon-Z

 

Right of the bat we can ignore Porygon-Z, Volcarona and Goluk, because they won't hit the bench on the first turn and I highly doubt that they will see play at all.

The same is true for Baltoy.

 

The only card that can be troublesome is M-Sceptile EX, however, as this one will likely end up in a deck with Vileplume, it all comes down to the coin toss again.

 

 

I'll say it once more: This deck is by no means the "best" deck in the format and yes, there are several cards that can shut it down with ease, however, the fact that it has a rather high win percantage against almost the entire field of currently established Expanded decks should be an indicator, that the first turn of the upcoming format will be more crucial than it has ever been.

 

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course the deck has zero outs to them ( well Escape Rope could be a means to get rid of Wobbuffet). That's why is is called a "glass canon", because it can be very devastating, while being rather fragile at the same time.

 

However, Garbador doesn't concern the deck, because it will always go in on turn 1.

As for Archetops, your opponent would have to win the coin toss and run Maxies Hidden Ball Trick, in order to get the card into play on turn 1.

 

So with those two cards more or less out of the equation, the best counters to this deck are Wobbuffet, or Vielplume. As for the later one, it basically comes down to a coin toss.

As far as Wobbuffet is concerned, the card is usually only played in M-Groundon decks, or as a wall in Donphan versions, neither of those decks are particular popular in the Expanded Meta, although I could see a rise of popularity in the future, not necessary due to Shiftry, but rather as a means to counter Vileplume.

Glass cannon sounds about right, I guess I misunderstood the title. I was under the impression you were saying Shiftry donk would play a big role in the meta. Between Vileplume, Vespiqueen and the threat of a deck like this I think Wobbuffet will see a lot more play. And as you said if your opponent goes first and Plant Forest Vileplume or Maxies Archeops then GG.

 

Generally when they're potentially popular cards/strategies that can be played turn 1 and shut something down it won't work out. Can you make a build that doesn't aim to donk, but still uses Shiftry effectively?

 

For the record, I like the list. It's great reading new lists and trying to add to them. Any comment I make is intended to be constructive criticism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the fact that you have to rely on multiple coin tosses (either to start the game, or to get Shiftry to work), as well as the fact that some cards will shut the deck down from the start do diminish the overall performance of the archetype.

However I just really like the fact that this is a deck that is never the less totally viable ( if the whole meta does not shift to Vileplume vs. Anti Vileplume) and a hidden sleeper that will eventually cause major upsets on the tournament scene, although I fear that the developers might have pushed the power levels a bit to far yet again (cough Shaymin-Ex and LTC cough).

 

Another idea I had was to utilize Shiftry in a Vileplume build ( utilizing both the FF version as a means to draw cards, as well as the NXD version as a cheap pseudo removal).

I haven't tested the list enough though (especially since you need an actual opponent for it, whereas you can just goldfish the Donk list alone^^), in order to have some reliable results.

 

Once the set comes out, I'll probably play a lot of Shiftry Donk in Expanded and Unlimited (with Junk Arm and LTC you can go through your entire deck twice, it's quite fun) as well as Forretress Donk in Unlimited, before I settle on an Expanded list for tournament play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I think using NXD and FF Shiftry in conjunction with Vileplume has potential.

FF Shiftry could help with draw support that Vileplume may take away. AZ would be great, you can get Giant Fan Shiftry back under Irritating Pollen or you can pick up Vileplume use items, then put it back into play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[Content removed - please keep all discussion polite and constructive. -Mod. Poplar] I see someone already mentioned theta stop. That's just one obstacle you have to overcome. Another obstacle would be the fact that your whole strategy is predicated on your opponent having only a lone active. Otherwise there is no point to even trying to play this. I like the creativity and all, but it just plain does not work. youre not going to pull off more than 2 of these a turn. Now on to problem number 2. We will return to the theta stop explanation with this one. The pokemon mentioned above by you as those having theta stop? That's not the only group of pokemon with theta stop bro. Im gonna point out the one that kills your deck immediately because i think this will help you see why this strategy at this point in time is not legitimate. Malamar not only has Theta Stop, it also has an attack that forces you to treat all your coin flips as tails during your turn. With dark patch/wally, theres no escaping it really. Plus there are always the aforementioned Garbodor/vileplume/archeops/m-sceptile. SO, although i do like the outside-the-box thinking, this deck just flat doesnt work. Now to move on to a Shiftry deck that does:

 

 

      Pokemon: 17

 

4 seedot

2 nuzleaf

4 shiftry FLF (deranged dance)

4 shaymin ex

2 virizion ex

1 trevenant ex

 

      Energy: 13

9 grass

4 dce

 

      Trainers: 30

1 Comp Search

1 prof letter

1 SER

1 escape rope

1 forest of giant plants

3 rare candy

2 sky field

2 switch

4 ultra ball

4 vs seeker

4 sycamore

2 colress

2 lysandre

1 teammates

1 az

 

what this will do is give shiftry the ability to hit for 240 damage, the same as mega rayquaza, no bands/bangles needed. this deck OHKO's Wailord stall with no problems and it also will hurt primals with not even a full bench. THIS is the Shiftry deck you want to play, and it may be a tiered deck in the future if people arent prepared for it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[REMOVED] I see someone already mentioned theta stop. That's just one obstacle you have to overcome. Another obstacle would be the fact that your whole strategy is predicated on your opponent having only a lone active. Otherwise there is no point to even trying to play this. I like the creativity and all, but it just plain does not work. youre not going to pull off more than 2 of these a turn. Now on to problem number 2. We will return to the theta stop explanation with this one. The pokemon mentioned above by you as those having theta stop? That's not the only group of pokemon with theta stop bro. Im gonna point out the one that kills your deck immediately because i think this will help you see why this strategy at this point in time is not legitimate. Malamar not only has Theta Stop, it also has an attack that forces you to treat all your coin flips as tails during your turn. With dark patch/wally, theres no escaping it really. Plus there are always the aforementioned Garbodor/vileplume/archeops/m-sceptile. SO, although i do like the outside-the-box thinking, this deck just flat doesnt work. Now to move on to a Shiftry deck that does:

 

 

      Pokemon: 17

 

4 seedot

2 nuzleaf

4 shiftry FLF (deranged dance)

4 shaymin ex

2 virizion ex

1 trevenant ex

 

      Energy: 13

9 grass

4 dce

 

      Trainers: 30

1 Comp Search

1 prof letter

1 SER

1 escape rope

1 forest of giant plants

3 rare candy

2 sky field

2 switch

4 ultra ball

4 vs seeker

4 sycamore

2 colress

2 lysandre

1 teammates

1 az

 

what this will do is give shiftry the ability to hit for 240 damage, the same as mega rayquaza, no bands/bangles needed. this deck OHKO's Wailord stall with no problems and it also will hurt primals with not even a full bench. THIS is the Shiftry deck you want to play, and it may be a tiered deck in the future if people arent prepared for it.

I disagree with some of your thoughts on the Donk deck. As it stands I think it isn't top tier, but if a build can be put together to smooth out some issues it can be. Interesting I'm the one who challenged this deck's potential and am now defending it hah...

 

Have you tested against it? It will get 2 Giant Fans off easy and likely 3.

And yes your right Wally Malamar is a great counter to this deck... But who would play it!? Inkays Malamars and Wallys... That combo outside of a defense for this deck is terrible. I brought up Wobbuffet, Garbodor, Archeops because those are cards people will actually play.

 

That being said I like your list, I want to see how it stacks up against other expanded ones. I personally try to avoid maxing out on Shaymins, do you think it's necessary here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[Content removed - please keep all discussion polite and constructive. -Mod. Poplar]

How often have to tested the list above?

[Removed] until you do at least 10-20 runs with it ( it's easy because you don't need an opponent to test the first turn kill, just print out the cards, sleeve em up and you are good to go).

 

[Removed] or have an astonishing run of bad luck, because in roughly 50 test games I have an average of 7.38 Shiftry evolutions on turn 1.

While I'm aware that those numbers might still not be enough ( for the record I didn't bother to track the Shiftry flips, because I was already tired of flipping for Recycle and Scoop Up every game), [Removed].

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Trainers!
 

This is a reminder that all discussion should remain polite and constructive. Posting personal attacks, rude remarks, accusations, etc. will not be permitted.

 

Thanks for your understanding!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...