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Lysandre's Trump Card BANNED!


SharKing319

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It was recently announced that Pokémon decided to directly ban a card from tournament play for the first time in years (since Secret Wonders Wormadam in Professor's Cup back in 2008). The first ban in a long time, and it happens not to Mega Rayquaza-EX or Seismitoad-EX...

 

but to Lysandre's Trump Card.

 

Starting June 15th, the card will no longer be playable in official tournaments. Pokémon's stated reasons for banning this card are:

 

- It eliminates one of your opponent’s victory conditions (running out of cards in your deck).

- It allows repeated use of powerful Trainer cards.

- It allows drawing through your deck quickly with minimal repercussions.

- It extends the time of battles.

 

This is stated to happen in physical TCG tournaments, such as Nationals. But I have to wonder: will the ban extend to Pokémon TCG Online?

 

What do you guys think of this ban?

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Just create a topic asking the same thing lol. I do not like this decision... If not barred frog, don't understand why they have to ban this letter which also not annoying.

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YESSSSSSSSSSS!!!. I'm so happy they are banning this card. I think this card is one of the sole reason why the game is unbalanced (besides seismitoad and executor) Because of the added item cards that allows you to draw and shayamin ex that allows you to draw a huge amount of cards in 1 turn people, didnt suffer consequences of running out of cards. i'm glad its getting banned so now people will think twice about cards they throw away.

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This move definitely slows the entire format down and some speed and really cycling and annoying cards will get a good biting with this: Seismitoad EX and most his friendly item support, Shaymin EX and its full support that runs only as quick through the deck to get the wanted cards as possible will lose big time valuewise.

 

On the other hand players have to use their resources better and can not rely only on special energies as Lysandres Trump Card don't worry them.

 

This can bring evolution decks back on the table - or just spam all tournaments with Night March decks as they lost their big counter (only Pyroar remains).

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This is quite a good decision as people are able to draw fast and make slow and annowing decks due to trump card. This will reduce the use of seismitoad which worked with Slurpuff and made the player draw huge amount of cards. Many matches i lost were due to trump card when opponent was out of draw.

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This move definitely slows the entire format down and some speed and really cycling and annoying cards will get a good biting with this: Seismitoad EX and most his friendly item support, Shaymin EX and its full support that runs only as quick through the deck to get the wanted cards as possible will lose big time valuewise.

 

On the other hand players have to use their resources better and can not rely only on special energies as Lysandres Trump Card don't worry them.

 

This can bring evolution decks back on the table - or just spam all tournaments with Night March decks as they lost their big counter (only Pyroar remains).

Yeah I don't know about other things, but now I can't defeat night march with any deck. Because before I used to keep this card only to counter Trump card. Now how do I defeat. there have been some cards but either they take time or are not good to fit in any deck !

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I don't think they should make cards and let them become a massive part of a ton of decks that's just going to get banned. Why make a non-promotional card and get everyone's hopes up about it if your just going to ban it.

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I may not know much but one thing I do know is that card fundamentally changes the way the game is played. I fund it to be a much less interesting way to play. Personally it feels like a gimmick. For that reason I would support the ban.

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I don't think they should make cards and let them become a massive part of a ton of decks that's just going to get banned. Why make a non-promotional card and get everyone's hopes up about it if your just going to ban it.

They test cards and how they will react with most decks before releasing them.  They most likely didn't anticipate the impact Trump Card would have with decks that have means to go through 50%-90% of their deck in a single turn and then just recycle everything and repeat like Toad does with its Lasers & Hammers while only running 4 Energy.  No deck should be able to run consistently and effectively on just 4 Energy and the means to cut through their entire deck with NO consequences and then reset it.

 

I support this ban though it'll make beating Night March that much more difficult since its only counter is now banned.  Steal decks will see a boost from this banning though.  A major part of the counter to Steal decks was to either shut off Bronzong's ability or to just deny the discard pile of energies by spamming Trump Card with VS Seeker.  Now that Trump Card is banned, Steal decks can once again dump a bunch of energies into the discard pile and basically retrieve all of them through Metal Links.

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Great move by the PTCG folks. 

 

And Night March can be defeated. Decks will evolve to meet the challenge. They always do.

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I am pleased that they had an announcement basically ready to go for outside of Japan only a short time after making the same announcement for Japan.  At first I balked at Lysandre's Trump Card being banned because losing it doesn't automatically balance out what I believe to be other problematic cards, but the official announcement laid out the reasons and I had to agree with them.  Hopefully card R&D will be a little more careful before introducing such a sweeping effect into the game next time. ;)

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Farewell Shytoad, it was a great time having you around.

 

On a serious note though, I don't like this ban, even if I can see their reason behind it.

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Great move by the PTCG folks.

 

 

 

And Night March can be defeated. Decks will evolve to meet the challenge. They always do.

 

 

Agreed.

 

Toad beats Night March, especially with a couple Target Whistle thrown in. Heck, use Target Whistle in any deck, and KO those low HP Joltik's or Boos.  Also, bring back a Mew EX from their discard for the final 2 prizes :). People are just knee j**k reacting initially in the moment. All will settle, all will be fine. :)

 

Good decision by Pokemon. Games were going on too long, this one card was too powerfully changing that, kudos.

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I'm dubious about this ban, honestly. On one hand, the meta worked perfectly fine before LTC was added, so reverting back to those times shouldn't be that difficult, on the other hand I find the competitive play became so much more diverse and interesting, due to this card's interesting gimmicks.

 

I would have preferred to see Seismitoad leave, personally. I never saw trump card as much of a problem when facing it. I don't see how stretching a battle is a bad thing, either, long battles are always the most interesting and eventful. 

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I would agree to keep trump card if you can only use it once per game and then it goes in the lost zone or something. but its crazy how you can go through your whole deck in 1 turn and just recycle it. Not balanced. As for night march it's actually quite simple to beat. Add quick attacking non ex pokemon along with 2 or more special hammers and 4 stadium cards and you have about a 65% chance of beating a night march deck. just dont play any ex's or thats an easy 2 prizes you wont get back your opponent will get. regular yveltal works very nicely. 

 

To Moderators: Will the ban be implemented on PTCGO earlier than June 15th or do we have to wait?

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I would agree to keep trump card if you can only use it once per game and then it goes in the lost zone or something....

The wording on Lysandre's Trump Card already implies that it wasn't intended to be recyclable from the discard pile ... but then they obviously forgot about numerous cards/moves that let you pull a Supporter from the Discard pile.  VS Seeker in particular can be comboed directly into LTC once you retrieve it, which also recycles the VS Seeker itself back into your deck so you can do it infinitely.

 

It is, however, a shame that Night March decks just got their one hard counter banned.

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I personally believe ltc is only getting the ban it deserves- when a card game starts with your first turn stretching for around 7-8 minutes on average (when your opponent's who doesn't play ltc runs for maybe 1-2 max?) it definitely means something is wrong with it and it's great that pokemon has realized that

 

true that toad was a good counter for night march but then again you can talk about darkrai and baby yveltal which literally crush night march (if they send out mew, just send out the ex version)

 

landorus-ex can easily take out both night march pokemon in a max of 2 turns and bats provide a very favourable matchup vs joltik and pumpkaboo (for all of those who will say darkrai and lando are rotating)

 

other decks will get hit slightly harder, but those of you who have not complained about toad being op have in my eyes directly lost the right to say that night march is op (there was never any comparison in the power of night march decks to the ability of toad to shut down all kinds of decks

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I understand why everyone was getting so sick of Toads/Laser/Hammer/Trump; but getting rid of Trump only eliminates one annoying deck strategy.

My personal fear is that now that LTC is banned, it's opened the doors for a whole other level of annoying: will we see an incline of milling-decks (decks that rely on discarding your opponents deck to win the game)?

I certainly don't want to lose a game simply because I can't draw another card the next turn.
I feel Pokemon is basically favoring a decking-out strategy over a speed-deck strategy.
But, that's just my opinion. Let's see what the next annoying deck is!

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While I echo a ton of the pro and con opinions in this and other threads, and have my own concerns that Trump Card will be shafted from Unlimited play (see matching Game Feedback thread), at least in official tournament play, the pros outweigh the cons.

Also keep in mind that one of the soft motivations (i.e., not hugely important but still relevant) reasons for this may include softer reasons, such as having to shuffle and re-shuffle discard piles into decks constantly. While PTCGO makes this super-easy, it's actually pretty annoying in real life!

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I understand why everyone was getting so sick of Toads/Laser/Hammer/Trump; but getting rid of Trump only eliminates one annoying deck strategy.

 

My personal fear is that now that LTC is banned, it's opened the doors for a whole other level of annoying: will we see an incline of milling-decks (decks that rely on discarding your opponents deck to win the game)?

 

I certainly don't want to lose a game simply because I can't draw another card the next turn.

I feel Pokemon is basically favoring a decking-out strategy over a speed-deck strategy.

But, that's just my opinion. Let's see what the next annoying deck is!

 

There isn't any good milling decks in the format and hasn't been in a long time as far as I can remember.  With LTC being gone, the game will back to making players actually pay attention to their resources and make them make effective decisions on what to play, when to play it, and what to throw away with little possibility of getting it back.

 

It's not just Toad that is going to feel the impact of not being able to dig through their whole deck in 1 turn with no repercussions.  Sky Field decks that drop 4 Shaymin-EX to fill up the bench and also dig through their deck will have to consider the real possibility of actually decking out by drawing 30 cards and cutting their deck down to 15 or less in a single turn.  Yes they might be able to win before they deck out but they won't have LTC any more to keep them from decking out. 

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The ban is ridiculous......... card developers should have forseen the impact this card would make and do something then, instead of letting LTC reshape the meta game first then remove it. Yea games were longer, but it also allowed us to make use of more than 4x a card, which is huge in play

 

The only reason the card was banned is becasue Jason embarrassed the game on a sanctioned stage by Trumping 5 times and playing for like 2 hours

 

The ban has completely wrecked the Meta game as we know it now, which doesnt matter much to casual players but means alot to those who are more than casual.................

 

never has a ban been overturned but I pray this one does

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The ban is ridiculous......... card developers should have forseen the impact this card would make and do something then, instead of letting LTC reshape the meta game first then remove it. Yea games were longer, but it also allowed us to make use of more than 4x a card, which is huge in play

 

The only reason the card was banned is becasue Jason embarrassed the game on a sanctioned stage by Trumping 5 times and playing for like 2 hours

[...]

And don't you think it is fair when say a player uses such a strategy with Seismitoad EX in all kind of variants mainly to slowly stall and deny you at the same point while doing so less damage and say win the first game after maybe 25 minutes.

When the second game takes place this player uses his searching and the shuffling cards to make the game as long as possible to even win because the opponent had no chance to take 6 prizes in the remaining 20 minutes because this constantly stream of searching and shuffling takes forever? I think in general the question can be asked: Should this be a PTCG or a PSCG - a Pokémon Shuffling Card Game?

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I support this ban. The reason for this is that some decks only run 1 LTC and can use it for more than 4 times in a match. Once i was in a match with Matthew69 and that match took me more than an hour to finish cause he used LTC more than 3-4 times which is quite annoying. He used shaymin-ex to draw cards quite fast. i think i am lucky that i didn't buy any shaymin exs cause its value is going to go down quite fast. :P

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The ban is ridiculous......... card developers should have forseen the impact this card would make and do something then, instead of letting LTC reshape the meta game first then remove it. Yea games were longer, but it also allowed us to make use of more than 4x a card, which is huge in play

 

The only reason the card was banned is becasue Jason embarrassed the game on a sanctioned stage by Trumping 5 times and playing for like 2 hours

 

The ban has completely wrecked the Meta game as we know it now, which doesnt matter much to casual players but means alot to those who are more than casual.................

 

never has a ban been overturned but I pray this one does

 

altair when you look at it, there is a reason there's a limit of 60 cards in deck, or 4 of each card otherwise I could run a deck peppered with shaymins and hammers till the point where you just give up

 

and that's exactly the metagame trump card is providing

 

also note that trump card's text states that trump card should not be put into the deck- meaning that it was intended to be a one-off card

 

however when you consider the fact that you can draw 110+ cards during your first turn- combo of balls, mail, acro bikes and trump cards, it pretty much is like bringing a 120 card deck to a 60 card deck battle

 

also it pretty much removes the odds of any changes in the game- basically it's gonna be ub, shaymin, mail, bike vs seeker in different orders all happening on turn 1

 

meaning your deck strategy doesn't change with situations- toad meaning you try and outspeed, yveltal- outspeed, virgen- outspeed

 

this is in contrast to other slower decks where you actually are put into other situations, use those switches, ultra balls carefully to land a win

 

summary-

 

trump card causes:

 

ultra long turns

loss of creativity

ability to draw nearly twice the legal decksize in one turn

 

all this after having an unintended bypass to its effect

 

result: I think it should stay banned

 

also, when neo genesis sneasel was overpowered and changing metas, it was still an oversight by pokemon back then.. are you suggesting that it shouldn't have been banned either? or even birthday Pikachu which promoted lying in a kids game..

 

I don't think you have an argument there

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