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Ex Standard decks


Ceratogyrus

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Does anyone else get frustrated by playing against decks loaded with EX pokemon in random standard games? I am a casual player and don't have the cash to buy cards (Not to mention the exchange rates in South Africa), so rely on only what is given by prizes, etc. I am trying to make a standard deck, but it is really frustrating not being able to play competitively because most times that I start a game my opponent is setup for ending the game within a few turns. Playing in just theme matches gets boring, but its frustrating getting beaten within a few turns in all standard games. Any advice?

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Does anyone else get frustrated by playing against decks loaded with EX pokemon in random standard games? I am a casual player and don't have the cash to buy cards (Not to mention the exchange rates in South Africa), so rely on only what is given by prizes, etc. I am trying to make a standard deck, but it is really frustrating not being able to play competitively because most times that I start a game my opponent is setup for ending the game within a few turns. Playing in just theme matches gets boring, but its frustrating getting beaten within a few turns in all standard games. Any advice?

As all players are new they face the same thing. Those players who have EXs were same as you are now, when they started. They faced it and became better players. You need to face it to. I also don't have physical cards, all that I have is from the game prizes. I was like you, but playing more certainly gets you some good experience. And the most important thing is to complete the BORING Trainer Challenge. Its essential for new players. So firstly do that and get 45 Packs after completing it. Open them and attack with your own Exs :) Nothing to worry, gradually you will become a better player when you play more and more. No need for physical cards :)

 

I hope you understand what I am trying to say, and I hope it helps you :)

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I have completed the trainer challenges within the first week, so have all of those prize packs.

Also bought a few of the decks (Dark Hammer and a few others) and I have a few EX's.

I just don't see how it is possible to ever compete without buying cards.

I understand that you can't just expect to come in and win, but it is pretty demoralizing playing game after game and having to lose or just concede everytime. Seems like it would take a few years of playing before I can start competing.

Also doesn't seem to be ranking me with other players of similar skill/card level.

 

Basically, its just really frustrating not being able to try and play against people with similar cards/experience.

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Save the tradable packs you may get from Winner's Wheel prize boxes and from Tournaments.  This will mean playing more theme deck battles, but that's what everyone does when they start.

 

Then trade those packs for the cards you need to build one of the cheaper standard decks.  You should have 1/2 - 3/4 of the supporter cards you need from theme decks (the starter ones, and from ones you have or can buy in the shop with coins).  Thus, it shouldn't be too expensive.

 

Night March, Flareon, Donphan, and Medicham are all fairly affordable standard decks that still win matches fairly frequently.

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I have made a new thread with my current Grass deck here: http://forums.pokemontcg.com/forum/34-deck-construction/

 

Thanks for the suggestions on the other competitive deck, but is there any chance that I can try with a grass deck? 

In the meantime I will save up my packs from tournaments/prizes to trade for pokemon to swop.

 

Thanks for the suggestions

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I have completed the trainer challenges within the first week, so have all of those prize packs.

Also bought a few of the decks (Dark Hammer and a few others) and I have a few EX's.

I just don't see how it is possible to ever compete without buying cards.

I understand that you can't just expect to come in and win, but it is pretty demoralizing playing game after game and having to lose or just concede everytime. Seems like it would take a few years of playing before I can start competing.

Also doesn't seem to be ranking me with other players of similar skill/card level.

 

Basically, its just really frustrating not being able to try and play against people with similar cards/experience.

Well I just started 6 months ago. And I don't feel that I lose often in PVP. Of-course I lose, I am not a very good player, but I did this with myself without buying cards. Play Daily Challenges, get tokens, buy Booster packs from Shop. Thats what I used. I used to play around enough matches to buy a 95 token booster daily. Do it and I am sure you would get some great cards to play :)

 

Save the tradable packs you may get from Winner's Wheel prize boxes and from Tournaments.  This will mean playing more theme deck battles, but that's what everyone does when they start.

 

Then trade those packs for the cards you need to build one of the cheaper standard decks.  You should have 1/2 - 3/4 of the supporter cards you need from theme decks (the starter ones, and from ones you have or can buy in the shop with coins).  Thus, it shouldn't be too expensive.

 

Night March, Flareon, Donphan, and Medicham are all fairly affordable standard decks that still win matches fairly frequently.

Well I don't agree that theme battles are best to play when you are new. I played the least theme. I said this because, then you wouldn't certainly have the experience of having played against good decks which improve you.

 

I have made a new thread with my current Grass deck here: http://forums.pokemontcg.com/forum/34-deck-construction/

 

Thanks for the suggestions on the other competitive deck, but is there any chance that I can try with a grass deck? 

In the meantime I will save up my packs from tournaments/prizes to trade for pokemon to swop.

 

Thanks for the suggestions

Well I haven't visited there. But if you need some Deck help, kindly come to the Best Deck in TCG. Click on the link in my signature to reach there. It has a collection of good decks and some are too cheap. So you can check them out. Another thing, for new Players, a player has started Dive in Program. There you can be helped, its for new players. You can also reach there by clicking on the link in my signature.

 

I hope it helps :)

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Those of us playing without paying are basically along for the ride; pretty sure the idea is for the PTCGO to be a bonus for those actually buying product.  We can provide a service by being polite opponents (as these kinds of things are better when you've got a polite opponent waiting for you).  I haven't spent any money on the PTCGO, just getting by starting with theme deck challenges and then tournaments.  It took a bit before I had a decent functional (but still not really competitive) deck for Standard but it happened.  A bit later, I finally was able to afford the budget, competitive decks.  So yes you can build up but it will take time.

 

Also, remember that Pokémon-EX may be dominant but even if they suddenly disappeared over night, you'd be encountering the same problems except now it would be the "higher rarity" cards.

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Like everyone said, playing w/o paying is slow, but you'll eventually have lots of ex's. After about 7 months of play i have 70 pokemon ex (mega included) without buying anything, and i win a good amount of matches. I would suggest they bring back Next Destinies in shop as i was able to make good progress largely because i got Mewtwo Ex very early and it's an excellent card for new players in combination with mew ex.

 

One more thing, grass decks didn't work out well for me so far, now i'm not saying that you should give up on building a competitive grass deck, just saying that you might wanna try to focus on other types more, like dark or psychic. Xy packs have Yveltal Ex and you can make quite impressive competitive decks with it, so i suggest you try those first (i say this cause my decks with Yveltal Ex have a high win ratio). Or try and get as many Roaring Skies packs as you can, been in a number of matches with rayquaza ex and i can say i rarely won, so if you can get that kind of deck together early on, you'll be set up.

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Exeggcute is an excellent staple for all Grass decks, since Propagation allows you to make Ultra Balls absolutely free. Exeggutor is also an excellent Pokemon especially when coupled with Hypnotoxic Laser. A timely Blockade can often make an opponent scoop in rage!

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I myself started with 4 feebas and from that I am building an empire. Sure it is hard work but nothing worthwhile is ever easy.

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Like everyone said, playing w/o paying is slow, but you'll eventually have lots of ex's. After about 7 months of play i have 70 pokemon ex (mega included) without buying anything, and i win a good amount of matches. I would suggest they bring back Next Destinies in shop as i was able to make good progress largely because i got Mewtwo Ex very early and it's an excellent card for new players in combination with mew ex.

Well I opened 93 NXD Packs from shop and till date didn't pull an EX from NXD. How do you get those pulls :(

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I've only 4 days of logged played opened over 200 free packs and only have 10 EX's starting since the Beta days.  The pull rate is just entirely ramdom and congrats to though who have pulled more but it's not a sure thing that everyone will do the same. 

 

However.....I didn't play completely free.  I bought a few Yveltal-EX codes and 1 Tin.  From there I was able to build an Yveltal-EX/Darkrai-EX deck.  I ran that for a while with a lot of success until Furrious Fists came out.  Loving the high damage from low cost attacks, I traded my Yveltal/Darkrai deck for a Landorus/Lucario deck that has evolved into a Fighting Bats deck.

 

I continue to play 95% for free but making a small investment of $20 or less can really improve your collection and experiance on PTCGO.  I save the majority of the packs I get from Prize Wheels and from Tournaments, they make excellent trades.  And even now with Roaring Skies I've started to get Full Art cards because players want the Roaring Skies packs so I just go and win Tournaments and trade the packs for FA's still only having invested just $20 into the game since the Beta.

 

It's possible to get a good collection for free, its just grinding and getting more experiance and getting better at the game.

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Well I opened 93 NXD Packs from shop and till date didn't pull an EX from NXD. How do you get those pulls :(

 

 Basically, instead of clicking to open a pack right away, i wait a random amount of time (between lets say 30 sec to 5 minutes) before i open a pack, also do the same b4 i click to reveal uncommon's/rare's, and i do so pack after pack. I came to realize that most pseudo random mechanisms use time as the basis for randomness, so i take use of that.

Your comments and my results convince me that i got it figured out right.

 

Only way to get rid of this "weakness" of pseudo random mechanisms is to replace them with a true rng (random number generator) that produces truly random numbers. Like i mentioned in a post in another topic, this can be done and then it would be unnecessary for me to wait, i could then click right away because i would know that waiting would not determine my outcome. But there would be another problem then, ppl would be getting ex's (and new cards in general) potentially way too often and that's why i don't believe developers will go for it. On the other hand with a true rng, every pack would be a potential surprise and that's why i would love it if they implement it, what can i say other than, i love randomness.

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I've only 4 days of logged played opened over 200 free packs and only have 10 EX's starting since the Beta days.  The pull rate is just entirely ramdom and congrats to though who have pulled more but it's not a sure thing that everyone will do the same. 

As i stated above, it's not entirely (truly) random, it's the way you open packs that determines the outcome, sure it's still random, but it least it's "controllable" random so to speak, you can see from my results. Many players don't tend to think about how a game works, but doing that can get you a nice edge over some aspects of it.

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I have played the game for just 3 weeks and I play completely for free, my standard deck that I built contain only basic non-EX pokemon, no evolution cards at all, no Ace Spec cards, and I still win with it 60% of the time, sometimes even against Mega Rayquaza decks and other competitive decks with lots of rare cards. Sure I do have 10 or so EX cards in my collection from opening random packs, but I'm not really using them. 

I know my deck has lots of weaknesses and it is by no means a good tournament deck, but it does prove the point that it is possible to build a deck that is usable in the standard format without spending real money.

And bear in mind, I have no previous experience of any Pokemon game or any other TCG at all.

My advice would be for you to look at the cards you have, some cards that might seem useless at a first glance can prove to be a game winner in the right setting. There are also many cards that are very useful as EX-counters, Bouffalant with the Gold Breaker attack is just one example.

I hope my ranting wasn't too boring, good luck and don't give up!

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Those players who have EXs were same as you are now, when they started. They faced it and became better players.

 

 

Very inaccurate statement. It should read; "They faced it and copypastaed a deck revolving around one or more of the 20-30 power cards in circulation".

 

 

 

No part of that process magically transforms you into a better player.

 

 

 

The skill ceiling is lower with EX afterall, because in effect there are half as many prizes and ten times more rigid deck building constraint.

 

 

 

A format for classic Pokemon without EX or Ace spec standard cards is needed, because every new set is just going to continue to be 3 power cards that everyone wants and the rest is junk nobody will ever use short of maybe a special energy and 4-5 trainer cards.

 

 

 

And then we would be able to tell skilled players apart from those who are not.

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A format for classic Pokemon without EX or Ace spec standard cards is needed, because every new set is just going to continue to be 3 power cards that everyone wants and the rest is junk nobody will ever use short of maybe a special energy and 4-5 trainer cards.

Such a game format would probably be appreciated by many. =)

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 Basically, instead of clicking to open a pack right away, i wait a random amount of time (between lets say 30 sec to 5 minutes) before i open a pack, also do the same b4 i click to reveal uncommon's/rare's, and i do so pack after pack. I came to realize that most pseudo random mechanisms use time as the basis for randomness, so i take use of that.

Your comments and my results convince me that i got it figured out right.

 

Only way to get rid of this "weakness" of pseudo random mechanisms is to replace them with a true rng (random number generator) that produces truly random numbers. Like i mentioned in a post in another topic, this can be done and then it would be unnecessary for me to wait, i could then click right away because i would know that waiting would not determine my outcome. But there would be another problem then, ppl would be getting ex's (and new cards in general) potentially way too often and that's why i don't believe developers will go for it. On the other hand with a true rng, every pack would be a potential surprise and that's why i would love it if they implement it, what can i say other than, i love randomness.

Well maybe I will try that thanks for the Mechanism, I hope it works :)

 

Very inaccurate statement. It should read; "They faced it and copypastaed a deck revolving around one or more of the 20-30 power cards in circulation".

 

No part of that process magically transforms you into a better player.

 

The skill ceiling is lower with EX afterall, because in effect there are half as many prizes and ten times more rigid deck building constraint.

 

A format for classic Pokemon without EX or Ace spec standard cards is needed, because every new set is just going to continue to be 3 power cards that everyone wants and the rest is junk nobody will ever use short of maybe a special energy and 4-5 trainer cards.

 

And then we would be able to tell skilled players apart from those who are not.

Well you are truly WRONG. You saw donphan deck ? its completely non-Ex and see how it damages those Ex here and there. Some other decks are also there which can actually beat Exs ! The thing is not all people copy paste decks ! If you ever come to battle me, I would show you my weird decks. And playing more and more gains you experience you learn a lot from games. If you say No EX then you simply deny to face hard level of a game. In other action games, can't name it here as I think its against the rules, but in other FPS, action games, if you don't play the hard level, then you just didn't play the game ! Same is here. People who actually create decks have minds because they play more study the cards much more. And in PTCGO, there is an option to scan all the cards. Well I did this and it took me 3 days to do so. Many Ideas come to you and when these get hit, its not magical that you become a better player, its that you strive hard to become better. You get better prizes and better cards. You play so much, you read put the whole collection, even though you don't have the cards. When I started, I had only 4 EXs, its not easy to beat a team with 10 EXs and that too without any support. So what I did was, I played other pokemon, stage 2s and others. I lost many times, gradually from the losers wheel I got tokens, I bought packs. Opened them and got so many good cards. I believe thats how a player grows. And I can claim that none of the decks I used are copy pasted and all the decks that are competitive use 3-4 Non EX pokemon as well. So just don't run away from the hard part of the game. Face it and get better and you need equal skill to defeat an opponent with EX as with non EX !

 

I hope I am clear and it helps you :)

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Broken cards will always be around. EX's get a brunt of the anger because they're fancier. Without ex's the format would be flooded with Donphan and Night March, and other such cards/decks.

While I agree that people will just throw together a net deck and claim to be better frequently, don't go blaming EX's for that. Blame the internet.  I'm the biggest advocate against net decks, and am staunchly behind creativity and skill playing a more relevant role, it ultimately boils down to who can exploit the available cards better.

Sorry your collection isn't as fancy or nice as others, just use that in your favor and let it motivate you.  I love creating a new deck idea (my latest is noivern) and trying it out against toads and Yveltals and Mewtwos... if I win, I did it. Not a deck list. Not "overpowered ex's", it's my idea, my cards and that's good enough for me. As much as I hate them, net decks/ex decks will always be present, so instead of being pessimistic and blaming a lack of success on some variable that you have just as much access to is just that. Blaming, which is no way to play a game.

Otherwise, you want to do kindergarten decks with no ex's or OP cards? Cool. Set up a tourney here. I'll be the first to join.   

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ah yes, the old "ban mewtwo ex from matches/make a no-ex format because they're OP!" argument.

 

yeah, if we get rid of the currently "op" card, another one will surface. The people who call cards "op" are those without the creativity to form their own tactics against it. 

 

lets say (the good old example of) mewtwo ex was banned. All the people with net decks that relied on that would suddenly be looking for new decklists, but it would take a while for them to emerge. Why? because no card is op. The creative trainers spend time finding a deck that becomes accepted as a "good deck" and then the other people jump on top of that, and before you know it, the main poke of that deck becomes the source of hate, is accused of being OP, and banned. 

 

you think it's op cos you can't find a workaround for it, but they are there. The creative types who set the standard for these net decks are those who ascend cards to this "op" status. they would simply do this to another card if you banned the one currently considered op

 

aparently these days it's toad. Back when i used to play it was mewtwo. And i'm sure once virbank and lazers go out it will be something new.

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Broken cards will always be around. EX's get a brunt of the anger because they're fancier. Without ex's the format would be flooded with Donphan and Night March, and other such cards/decks.

 

While I agree that people will just throw together a net deck and claim to be better frequently, don't go blaming EX's for that. Blame the internet.  I'm the biggest advocate against net decks, and am staunchly behind creativity and skill playing a more relevant role, it ultimately boils down to who can exploit the available cards better.

 

Sorry your collection isn't as fancy or nice as others, just use that in your favor and let it motivate you.  I love creating a new deck idea (my latest is noivern) and trying it out against toads and Yveltals and Mewtwos... if I win, I did it. Not a deck list. Not "overpowered ex's", it's my idea, my cards and that's good enough for me. As much as I hate them, net decks/ex decks will always be present, so instead of being pessimistic and blaming a lack of success on some variable that you have just as much access to is just that. Blaming, which is no way to play a game.

 

Otherwise, you want to do kindergarten decks with no ex's or OP cards? Cool. Set up a tourney here. I'll be the first to join.   

 

 

ah yes, the old "ban mewtwo ex from matches/make a no-ex format because they're OP!" argument.

 

yeah, if we get rid of the currently "op" card, another one will surface. The people who call cards "op" are those without the creativity to form their own tactics against it. 

 

lets say (the good old example of) mewtwo ex was banned. All the people with net decks that relied on that would suddenly be looking for new decklists, but it would take a while for them to emerge. Why? because no card is op. The creative trainers spend time finding a deck that becomes accepted as a "good deck" and then the other people jump on top of that, and before you know it, the main poke of that deck becomes the source of hate, is accused of being OP, and banned. 

 

you think it's op cos you can't find a workaround for it, but they are there. The creative types who set the standard for these net decks are those who ascend cards to this "op" status. they would simply do this to another card if you banned the one currently considered op

 

aparently these days it's toad. Back when i used to play it was mewtwo. And i'm sure once virbank and lazers go out it will be something new.

Well I agree with both of you ! :)

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First and foremost:

 

If you simply complain about something without giving it thought, including understanding why it really is a concern and not simply why it bothers you, odds are you will make this game worse for all involved.  Unfortunately the designers have limited resources which means not only can they not take the time to do everything we'd like to see, they also only have so much time to figure out what changes to make.  So if a lot of people make post kneejerk responses, the designers either lose time deducing that they aren't suggestions to seriously follow up on or actually do try and implement them, only to find they were probably better off not bothering.  "A no EX format" is a great example of a terrible request because there is nothing wrong with the Pokémon-EX mechanic: some of the cards are overpowered but that is a separate issue and one found among every kind of card.

 

Second, there are many kinds of skill involved in the Pokémon TCG.  Pokémon-EX (again, as a basic mechanic, not specific cards) do not cause a net loss in skill; the fact that they are worth two Prizes when KOed may speed the game up but that in and of itself does not automatically equate to the game requiring less skill; in fact avoiding losing when your Pokémon give up twice the Prizes when KOed (and this is a format where Pokémon-EX are often KOed as fast as anything else) requires more skill, not less.

 

People that complain about "net decking" are complaining about the nature of a trading card game.  If you enjoy the thrill of discovery, go ahead and do it all yourself.  The skill isn't supposed to be the be all, end all of TCG playing.  Especially with the designers spoon feeding us certain decks.  Exactly how much information are you allowed to learn from an outside source and what outside sources are allowed?  If I get a list from a friend, how is that different than someone sharing a list publicly?  What if my friend is the one that posted the list?  Public lists are the lists people prepare for so there is a draw back to just simply copying someone else's list.  Complaining you can't win because of "net decking" is the TCG equivalent of "My controller isn't working right." only worse because sometimes you actually do get a broken or inferior controller. ;)

 

Want an example of something we should be thinking about?  How about a Limited Format.  In the real TCG, we have things like Prereleases where you get to buy six boosters of a set that isn't even out yet, build a 40 card deck with them (plus as many Basic Energy cards as you need) and then play against people in a short tournament.  Even as something taking place after a set is released, I'd love to see this added to the PTCGO experience; let me buy six boosters, build a deck from those cards (and Basic Energy) and play it in a tournament.

 

Possibly in an ongoing format since the game can just save that deck for use in Limited play.  It won't be perfect; big, Basic Pokémon with fast enough attacks would eventually rise to the top (I'd recommend a "retirement" threshold for an ongoing format - just accepting it for tournament play) because you can build a +39 deck around it (1 Basic Pokémon plus 39 non-Basic Pokémon cards so you have to start with that Basic).  This would give a lot of those cards that aren't so good elsewhere a chance to shine.

 

Or keeping it much more simple, how about the dev team be allowed and given some time to develop some more online only Theme Decks.  Even creating a sort of advanced theme deck (structure deck?) that is a better tool for new players and more enjoyable for all parties to use for Theme Deck mode?

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