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Trading Cost Adjustment


ShadowU

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To keep it short, the changes to the token costs of putting up offers on public trade was a terrible idea and they had a negative effect on everyone using the system, not just those they targeted - trade spammers.

It is also evident that there are a lot of frustrated players over these changes, with a lot of people (myself included) playing this game less because of these changes, as they had a hugely detrimental effect on their trading experience.

Frankly, trading is just downright frustrating if you need to stop and think, "Okay, will I have enough tokens to buy a pack if I post these trades?" all the time.

My suggestion to solve this problem is a lot more simple than some of the complicated ideas that people have had, and I think the reason for that is because for the biggest part, the previous system worked okay except for a couple of things.


Here's my idea:

A) Revert the token cost of posting offers to its previous amount of 0/2/4 for 8/24/48 hours respectively.

The previous costs were perfect in that they allowed new players to trade their cards away or obtain new cards for their decks for free, and had an optional token cost for convenience of more serious traders.

This needs to happen because with the current system, you're punished for things like trading in unpopular cards, experimenting with market prices, trading away unlisted cards, being unlucky with supply being too high and your trade not going through, etc.

You should not aim to artificially limit the card pool, which hurts everyone more than it benefits them, but rather trim the excess "fat", which is easily possible with the following point:


B ) Move the Report Trade button (from the "View Trade" window) and add a new button, "Block Trader", to/on the top part of the trading window, next to "Trade History". Additionally, remove the requirement of having to select a category for the report and giving details about it, instead replacing them with a confirmation message for the report.

Frankly, right now, that's the biggest problem - reporting a trade involves clicking on the trade, selecting a category, writing a comment, and hitting submit. This is a heavily convoluted process for no apparent reason.

The "Deceptive trade" and "Spam" categories mean pretty much the same thing in the context of trading, and are both self-explanatory. Why do you need to select a category (from a range of other, irrelevant report categories such as "Exploiting" and "Harassment") and why do you need to give details over something so self-descriptive?

What's worse, even if you do report a "problematic trade", as the game puts it, you'll still see that poster's trades, so this does nothing whatsoever to fix the problem until said poster is eventually ( hopefully ) reprimanded by the game moderators. To that end, the "Report Trade" button should stop trades from that person being displayed as well.

Additionally, maybe some trades aren't "problematic" as much as they're annoying and a simple option to not view trades from this person, also known as a "Blacklist" in many online games, would suffice. It is puzzling that such feature is not available in-game seeing how useful it would be.

It is imperative that these buttons are at an easy-to-see and quickly clickable location, such as next to the "Trade History" button and slightly to the right, as that would mean that there's no hassle to filtering out spam trades, which is a necessary function of the trading interface.



All in all I hope that a moderator reads this and my feedback does not get tossed right into the bin, because honestly, I think what's happening right now is a shame. Pokemon TCG Online is the best online TCG game available, and things like the Daily Challenge system keep pushing it to be better and better compared to its competition.



It is a huge shame that changes like this will drive a lot of players away, for no real reason whatsoever. :/

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Hi ShadowU,

 

Thanks for your constructive feedback and thoughtful suggestions. I'll submit them to the Dev team for consideration. In the meantime, your thread will remain open in case you'd like to discuss your thoughts further.

 

We appreciate your input and can assure you that all suggestions do make their way to the Dev team. No bin here! :)

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I had a suggestion in the other thread I'm going to repost here:

 

1- Reduce the per-hour token cost of posting a trade to about half of what it is now.

2- Add a per card token cost to all trade offers.  This is based on the total # of items (cards, packs, etc.) being requested by the poster.  Not sure what the ideal formula for this would be, but as an example, say +1 token for every card past 5; or compare the # items requested vs # items posted and calculate a cost based on the difference.

 

This would specifically target the kind of scam/junk trades where the poster puts up one/two cards in exchange for ridiculous demands (what you want 50 FA N?  Yeah, we're looking at you.), while reducing the token impact of smaller trades (which are more likely to get completed anyway).

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ya wish would of left alone or least charged only 1-2 tokens for an 8 hour i for one like trading in public verse's having to sit in lobby for hours.

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Whats the problem with trade offers for 50x FA N whatsoever? I never saw much of this kind of trades and im 100% sure they never got accepted. :D  So i can't see any problem with this.

 

Well i totally agree with the OP. I hope there are changes ASAP. This game is dieying. A new set just released and still there are less people playing than before even if it was supposed to be the complete opposite. And i am losing motivation for the game more and more aswell. You just took away the most fun part of the game for me and many other guys: TRADING.  :(

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Whats the problem with trade offers for 50x FA N whatsoever? I never saw much of this kind of trades and im 100% sure they never got accepted. :D  So i can't see any problem with this.

 

Well i totally agree with the OP. I hope there are changes ASAP. This game is dieying. A new set just released and still there are less people playing than before even if it was supposed to be the complete opposite. And i am losing motivation for the game more and more aswell. You just took away the most fun part of the game for me and many other guys: TRADING.  :(

 

Saying this change was about people posting trades for 50x FA N or 100x FA Mewtwo-ex is just a straw-man to divert attention from the real reason this change was implemented.

 

Obviously no one, even someone brand new to the game, would accept one of those types of trades; they're too unbelievably ridiculous.  Furthermore, no one new to the game has that many older cards.  I wonder if the richest trading company personnel even have 50 FA N or 100 FA Mewtwo-ex or similar.  Those cards are just that rare.

 

This change was implemented to make the trading area more easy to navigate, and to make it easier to compare offers (instead of having to scroll through 3 or 4 pages for one card, with dozens of the same offer from one person). It also surely was intended to dissuade people from posting bad offers with low likelihoods of acceptance on the off chance that they catch a sucker or newbie.

 

Furthermore, improving the report system or blocking traders from your own view does nothing to stop this from happening.  For new players or those that do very little trading, they very well may not know which trades are good or bad (except, again, the most ridiculous trades which no one would take anyway), and thus will continue to be prey for shameless sharks.

 

And please, the game isn't "dying" nor are there "less people playing than before".  You have no data to support that, and you are mainly throwing out this unsubstantiated doom and gloom to support your agenda.

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This change was implemented to make the trading area more easy to navigate, and to make it easier to compare offers (instead of having to scroll through 3 or 4 pages for one card, with dozens of the same offer from one person). It also surely was intended to dissuade people from posting bad offers with low likelihoods of acceptance on the off chance that they catch a sucker or newbie.

I sure am glad that you have such deep insight into the developers' thought process behind this change, but no, your opinion is as much of a "straw man" as everyone else's .

 

Yours, however, simply makes no sense, because you seem to believe that "3 or 4 pages for one card, with dozens of the same offer from one person" is a bad thing, and HAS to be fixed with such drastic measures. It isn't, by the way - 3 or 4 pages for a card means there's higher supply = lower prices, which is great for everyone, and it really doesn't matter who's giving the card away.

 

No, it is a lot more probable that they were targeting spam trades with a 0% likelihood of completion that only ever cluttered up the trade list as these are the trades that this change deters the most.

 

Even IF these changes were indeed intended to "dissuade people from posting bad offers with low likelihoods of acceptance", can't you see how it's a HUGE problem that it also dissuades people who post good offers with a low likelihood of acceptance?

Or people who post a lot of trades every day, and sometimes get unlucky with their trades not going through?

 

According to what you suggest, they apparently wanted to punish people's BAD behaviour (trying to scam others) and in the process ended up punishing nearly EVERYONE else as well.

 

If that's not the definition of a poor solution, them I'm not sure what is.

 

Furthermore, improving the report system or blocking traders from your own view does nothing to stop this from happening.  For new players or those that do very little trading, they very well may not know which trades are good or bad (except, again, the most ridiculous trades which no one would take anyway), and thus will continue to be prey for shameless sharks.

What are you talking about, it does a LOT to stop this from happening. My idea would completely eliminate this problem, because you'd just be able to hide that person's posts and be done with it.

 

Furthermore, making the report function easier to access would ensure that bad traders are reported for their scam attempts more often, and assuming that the report -> punishment system works correctly, then:

 

A) There would be less trade scammers, as more of them are banned every day and

 

B ) More people would be deterred from posting bad trades because they'd realize that the risk of being banned for being a bad person is a REAL one.

 

What really does absolutely NOTHING to stop the problem that you suggest is the current token cost increase change. Go on public, you'll still see hundreds of scam trades - and obviously so, because the only thing that this change did was make it so these scammers lose a couple of coins if they don't successfully scam someone, and most of them have thousands of coins that they don't care about anyway.

 

Additionally, it also made it that much more difficult for new people to get into trading - since they don't know market prices very well, which cards sell, etc, so they're more liable to losing their few and precious coins. What a brilliant solution! Oh, and did I mention it made trading in general a whole lot more painful for everyone else as well? Brilliant, just brilliant.

 

 

And please, the game isn't "dying" nor are there "less people playing than before".  You have no data to support that, and you are mainly throwing out this unsubstantiated doom and gloom to support your agenda.

 

He may not have actual data, but get real. Go on public trade and you'll see this is the least active it's been in a while with the amount of trades for new cards without an established market price (uncertain completion likelihood). The reason for that is obvious - there's a lot less casual players trading now as they're not willing to risk losing up to 48 coins if their trade doesn't go through - 48 coins is half a pack for them, after all.

 

Furthermore, it's obvious that there's a lot of people that are hugely upset with this change, as it pretty much killed off a part of the game that they really liked for them. For instance, I used to love logging in once or twice a day, posting a bunch of trades and seeing which ones were completed, getting that awesome feeling of seeing a trade completed and smiling. Then, I'd maybe do my daily challenges and play a couple of games or two.

 

Now, trading's become more difficult, and since I can't afford to lose an amount of coins equal to the cards that I wanna trade I just stopped trading altogether. I can't get the new cards because there's less people trading them away and are thus too expensive. So really, the only thing that's left is doing the daily challenge, which, by itself, is pretty boring.

It's 100% understandable that people in this position are frustrated, as these changes came for no real reason, did very little to benefit the game, and damaged a lot of people's enjoyment - A LOT.

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I am seeing a lot less pack denominated trades near the seemingly market value. Trades posted to buy at well below the old market, and trades posted to sell at near or above old market. In the lesser valued cards like 1 pack or less cards, there is less choice, and often no choice or only roaring sky's pack offerings. The card for card offerings are drastically less, but I don't have the time to examine what changes have gone on there. My cards for pack trades are mostly below forum rates so I think they have always been fair trades. I am only posting a tenth of the variety of what I used to. I will just hold my inventory until they refine the system.

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Hello Trainers!

 

Please note that all posts must remain constructive and polite. It's understandable (and appreciated) that there are passionate discussions and differing opinions surrounding this topic, but please be sure to express those opinions in a friendly manner.

 

Thanks! :)

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I see no reason to post trades because we all know this is going to be hotfixed soon. I can tell other people feel the same way. It's pretty funny it used to take me at least a half hour to go through all the completable trades. Now it takes 5 minutes. I wonder if the changes had anything to do with it /sarcasm. I'm not going to waste coins to get some random common/uncommon or bad rare I want for a fun deck.

 

This change is just classic bad design. Punishing the entire player base for the actions of a few.

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Whats the problem with trade offers for 50x FA N whatsoever? I never saw much of this kind of trades and im 100% sure they never got accepted. :D  So i can't see any problem with this.

 

It was just a rhetorical example, not serious.  I have seen a few trades here and there that were remarkably lopsided, but that was a few patches ago.  More annoying are the constant public offers for those one or two rare cards I happen to have and am NOT trading (like my SR MManectric-EX, which easily dominates 80% of 'acceptable' public offers for basically anything I search for, in turn making it almost impossible for me to actually search for anything I would want to trade for).

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