How useful is Wally, really?

[fr33land]

Feel free to hold judgment until later.

One question would be, on turn 2 can I evosoda, then evolve with Wally, in that order? 

Since I cannot evosoda a pokemon that was just put in play, the order is important.

That defeats the advantage of evolving turn 1, of course, and I suppose if you had Wally in hand turn 1 you'd simply evolve on turn 1 with Wally and use evosoda turn 2.

I guess this presumes you might have to Fan Club turn 1 or use a draw supporter to get a combo.

Maybe I should wait with the stupid questions until we can play with this trainer a while.

Revive is kind of awesome, of course it only fetches basics from your discard pile directly to your bench, any pokemon would have been too good.

I'm a little upset I didn't get my promo Altaria at the pre release I went to.  I wonder if the host store will make good.  Delta evolving pokemon seem cool.  I like Togekiss with the freaky energy ability.

Obviously stepping through the stages is at odds with a rare candy engine, but it seems to work as fast or faster, Wally, VS Seeker gives you a stage 2 on turn 2 and seems simpler than ultra ball + rare candy, which normally uses a supporter in Skyla.

One would probably only want to commit the deck space to one or the other.

Obvious choice for decks using stage 1 support or attackers.  Aromatisse, Bronzong, Donphan, Pyroar, Medicham. . . I dunno, what do you all think?

Problem is you can't attack turn one, Medicham you need two energies and you can get there anyways turn 2 so it's not a big deal.

I suppose it reduces the chances you get Ko'd first turn by muscle band Latios EX.

Go second? is there a good one energy stage 1 attacker? 

[justinbebe]

A useful specific case is on the new Banette (w/ Evolution Jammer). If you have Shuppet as your active in turn 1 then use Wally for Banette, you can attack with Evolution Jammer, locking your opponent's basic pokemon.

Partnered with Pyroar, this will be a nice combo.

[fr33land]

Yeah, Banette with tool effect nullifier would be good especially vs Mega Evolvers  and Latios EX muscle band which I feel is the most terrifying thing for players with my skill level.

Never mind, first turn Pyroar might be nice.

People will probably use it to make sure they have Altaria in their M Rayquaza deck or something though, if they don't draw one first turn and aren't running 4-4, like I've heard suggested.

In one of my prerelease games, on turn 2 I was powerful slapping with the less cool Togekiss for the win.  That's a fun attack.

I was disappointed I didn't pull anything outrageous, but I got 3 copies of Wally including a FA and I am determined to make them useful.

I had hoped it was a replacement for Rare Candy + Ultra Ball outright, but sadly, no.

My main thought has been to fetch wierd stage 1's and copy their attacks with Mew EX.

[The_Iron_bat]

A useful specific case is on the new Banette (w/ Evolution Jammer). If you have Shuppet as your active in turn 1 then use Wally for Banette, you can attack with Evolution Jammer, locking your opponent's basic pokemon.

Partnered with Pyroar, this will be a nice combo.

Except once you stop attacking with Evolution Jamming, and advance Pyroar, then they can evolve, and you're not having a good time.

[awesome_guy]

isn't there an archeops which can jam evolutions? I believe using that could really help banette/pyroar

[The_Iron_bat]

isn't there an archeops which can jam evolutions? I believe using that could really help banette/pyroar

In Expanded, yes (And it was considered a big Pyroar archetype) and the big propblem is that no ether player could evolve anything. There was Evosoda, but that was pretty unstable.

[fr33land]

I read on another thread about the anti-evolving deck and how, ironically, Wally would be the antidote.  The bench reset would also nullify the idea, no?

Simpler to play Spiritomb also, I think B Cancel's text reads: prevents 'any card from their hand to evolve' or something like that which would include I imagine supporters, sounded more like an effect on the player, a distinction that's become a topic of much discussion of late in the anti-toad complaint crusade.

What do you think of running evosodas and Wally instead of rare candies and ultraballs though?  You think you could use both in a given turn, evosoda first, then Wally?  Of course Wally, Delta Evolve seems totally legit to me.

[fr33land]

Okay, so not so useful

If you want to evolve beyond the normal rules, you can't use the evolution in your hand in conjunction with Wally, it's a dead card

Decks that don't use Balls (Ultra / Dive / Poke just in case that's censored or something) don't really need it or can't use Wally effectively since you already used a supporter to get your pokemon.

I tried it in a fighting deck, but Korrina and Rare Candy are too good.  Even in other decks so far, it's no faster than rare candy and you can't rely on Wally alone, you still must have Ultra Ball.

I can see using it with Bats to deal first turn damage or with Pyroar for sure.

Does anyone else have a clue how to use this card?

[Linnell]

It pairs up well with Donphan as well if the Donphan player is going 2nd.  They get to evolve straight to Donphan, slap a Strong Energy on it, Muscle Banned or Silver Bangle, drop the Fighting Stadium and swing in for 100-110 on the very first turn and retreat......assuming they had the right hand or was able to draw into cards without using the Supporter for the turn so they can use Wally.

 

Its certainly a card I can see has having potential in some decks but stills needs experimenting with

[fr33land]

OK, I can see that.  It's definitely a 'go second' card.  I plan on using it to ambush people with Mew EX and Shedinja.  However after the first turn it's quite useless in a fighting deck, why search for a pokemon when you can search for a pokemon and a tool with Korrina?  So having 4 copies for first turn means you're wasting space.

I have a thought, specifically for fighting and fire decks where there are non draw supporters with powerful effects, specifically Korrina and Blacksmith: lots of random recievers and few draw supporters.  My Primal Groudon deck seems to do fine with more search supporters than draw supporters, why draw when you can search?  Limiting your supporter line in terms of draw doesn't seem to hurt too much and it might improve your consistency in getting Korrina every turn early on.  What do you think?

It might pair with Wally well too if you need it first turn-ish, you just need to thin out your draw supporters to increaqse your chances of pulling Wally, Your chances are better than 1 in 8 almost a sure thing in your first hand with 4 Korrina and 4 Random recievers.

I'm hoping it will work with Blacksmith and Delphox for a turbo fire set up, 4 random recievers and 4 blacksmith.  Relying on Delphox for draw might be terrible if I can't set him up early as is likely to happen though, it's soooo good when Delphox is out, especially two of them, it's outrageous.

I tried using Wally in a Medicham / Machamp deck, it doesn't work: for Machamp rare candy is too good with Korrina and you can't attack early enough with Medicham unless you have Memory Shrine up, which takes away from that damage multiplication in two ways, it basically costs you 60 damage per turn (-10 from yoga kick and -20 x 2 for fighting stadium).

Are there any other potent stage 1's that attack for a single energy that might work well?  Manectric from the new set does something like Donphan (without all the support though), I have something in mind from Plasma Freeze, Donphan, anything else for that 'go second' attack?

[awesome_guy]

how about a night march celebi deck? it seems it might be useful there as you'd only need one copy which you could discard and vs seeker to evolve your pumpkaboo


honestly I think wally is fair game on any evolving deck that uses compressor (either normally or teched in specifically- eg. camerupt and manectric don't need to use compressor.. however using compressor to set up vs seeker and maybe mega turbo (or whatever it was called) up for a quick attack or at least evolution (before toad attacks) meaning you don't have to worry about another turn lost

[Guest ArtichokeCat]

Yeah, going with the ideas of Stage 1s, maybe Flareon

so it can attack if going 2nd, instead of having to wait a turn while all your Eevees are vulnerable

[AltairReborn]

only way ive even tried to use Wally is with Garb, to attemp a round 1 ability lock.............. it works about half the time, maybe a little more........... its all based on how the cards fall and if you can get Comp Search into your hand quickly enough.......... but is good if you can pull off the turn 1 lock on Ray/Shay, then they play Shaymin and quit

[fr33land]

Yeah. Having lots of copies of Wally is kind of asinine if you are attempting to get to stage 2.  Works okay with 1-2 copies and evosodas, but also with a few rare candies and ultra balls.  Helps get a second stage 2 out (or third) pretty quick sometimes. But for a stage 2 you can only get there on second turn anyway, you might not have to discard for ultra ball with evosoda / Wally or Wally turn 1 VS seeker turn 2 but you can't get to stage 2 without a Delta evolving stage 2 on turn 1

Anyway, the M Ray is evil. Delta evolving evil - ness.

and while I am griping, why are dragons weak to fairies now, and not hitting anything for weakness?

Never mind.

Just uncommitted complaining.