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fr33land

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Camerupt EX x 3

 

Victini EX x 1

 

Reshiram x 2

 

Tepig-Pignite-Emboar x 3-1-3

 

Scorched Earth x 2

 

Fiery Torch x 2

 

Superior Energy Retrieval x 4

 

Rare Candy x 2

 

N x 4

 

Professor Sycamore x 4

 

Professor's Letter x 2

 

Skyla x 3

 

Town Map x 1

 

VS Seeker x 2

 

Ultra Ball x 3

 

Teammates x 1

 

Lysandre x 1

 

Escape Rope x 1

 

Weakness Policy x 1

 

Gold Potion x 1

 

Fire Energy x 12

 

Any thoughts? Probably lose against some match ups, Garbodor wouod shut it down and the toad would kind of suck because it's all about Emboar and Superior Energy Retrieval, should probably have a megaphone for Garb, thought about having 2-2 pyroar with flare command to switch out siesmitoad or try to draw out Garb / trubbish and KO them. Big problem I am trying to solve is having a really short hand and not being able to use S.E.R. late game. Should I drop something to run more scorched earth? Should I swap N with a draw supporter that helps more late game? Don't have any Colress, though that might be nice? Scorched Earth works nice for getting two cards to discard for S.E.R. Should I put in Lysandre's Trump Card, it kind of works against me with retrieval but it would give me draw support back, enough to probably charge Camperupt since I'll have lost already if Emboar is not already on my bench. Gold Potion or Victory Piece? no other Ace Specs. Got a few super potions. More escape options for Emboar? I have paid the retreat cost and S.E.R.ed them back onto a now active Camerupt and OHKOed same turn, don't think that will happen too often. Very similar to a deck I saw on *******. Just pulled a Delphox, that would be awesome but even a 1-0-1 line doesn't seem practical. Don't really want to try teching against stuff, it would probably take away from the set up and strategy, which require many cards. I am resigned to losing a few matches, I would just like to make some outrageous OHKO's more consistently.

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A 1-0-1 line of Delphox can work given that you already have the Stage 2 support for Emboar. It's a good tech for draw power and countering Pyroar as a secondary attacker.

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The ability is certainly nice. I just dunno what to drop, I want to add more energy retrieval type things not take away from what I have already, I suppose -1 fiery torch -1 Blacksmith, which I missed on the first list it seems, I think there's 1 or two, oh well. . . totally lost now.

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Yeah, sorry, there is 1 x Blacksmith, which with VS seeker has come through for me a few times, I'd hate to remove it.

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The thing about this sort of deck is that it requires Emboar to work. If you don't get Emboar into play the deck simply doesn't function.

The top priority should be getting Emboar into play asap.

 

The other option is to design the deck in such a way that it can also function without the support from Emboar. Basically building a Fire deck with Emboar as support. Playing a 2-2-2 line and evolving slowly through the stage 1 may be the best option for such a deck.

Victini EX and Blacksmith is examples of cards that could be featured in that kind of deck but they don't work very well with expensive attackers such as Camerupt EX and Reshiram.

 

Assuming you want to keep this an Emboar Camerupt deck I highly suggest trying a Delphox line alongside it and maximize the chance of getting your stage 2's into play. Delphox allows you to cut down on a lot of resources because of the strong drawpower it provides which well makes up for the space it takes up in the deck.

 

My recommended changes would be:

-2 Reshiram (Delphox being the replacement non-EX attacker)

-1 Emboar

-1 Victini EX (Relying 100% on Emboar for acceleration)

-2 Fiery Torch (Energy count is going down)

-2 Scorched Earth

-1 Gold Potion

-1 Town Map

-1 Superior Energy Retrieval

-2 Sycamore (No need for as many supporters. Discarding cards is generally very painful with two stage 2 lines. You may want to consider Prof. Birch or Shauna instead)

-4 Fire Energy

17 cards

 

+3-1-3 Delphox

+1 Jirachi EX (almost a necessity in stage 2 decks. Ultra Ball into Rare Candy is simply too good.)

+1 Ultra Ball

1+ Rare Candy

+1 Computer Search

+1 Lysandre's Trump Card (Excellent in combination with Delphox)

+1 Startling Megaphone (Answer for Garbodor. I prefer this one alongside Delphox as it doesn't clog your hand for Delphox ability and you can follow up with a Lysandre on Garbodor. Count may be increased depending on Garbodors popularity.)

+1 Switch/AZ

14 cards

 

3x Free Spaces to use for more consistency or techs.

 

Generally you want to get Delphox into play first in this deck unless you can get some amazing turn 2 Camerupt for 200 damage. With Delphox in play Emboar is likely to quickly follow.
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. . . Might not go that far, you are right about blacksmith not being enough for expensive attacks tho. 2 energies at the cost of my supporter for the turn is bogus when I need 3 or 4 easily to take out most opponents. I'm going to try a thin Delphox line for sure, since it's the late game that is suffering I can wait until I need that draw support I think.

One thing I would say is that discarding energies has worked in my favour: having scorched earth constantly is awesome, that's why I figured Pyroar PHF (I think) flare command would be handy also: I can only pack 4 superior energy retrievals, and realistically I can't wait to charge Camerupt normally, then recover the energy from the discard pile, I need all 4: one to start the critical beat down and I better hope I KO 3 out of 4 uses. That's where I am having trouble right now, playing decks with non EX attackers where I only collect 1 prize while going through this whole process and the game drags on. I suppose that's play error on my part or something. I guess the miracle is how often this seems to work, the deck I mean. . . anyway, yeah, discarding stupid amount of energy deliberately in turn 1 and 2 totally works out for me: Ultra Ball, Scorched Earth / Fiery Torch, Sycamore bang 4 energies in discard pile, Emboar on turn 2 and I have gone through 15 or 22 cards out of my deck depending on if I used Skyla to make Emboar happen and I couldn't use a draw supporter: Odds are good I found the 5 card combo that makes this happen Tepig, Emboar, Rare Candy, Camerupt and SER and had to or chose to discard enough energy to make it worthwhile. . . not that good I guess ****** ir T4 fir sure.

I only play a few opponents (of consequence) IRL, Bronzong PHF/Aggron/Dialga, Yveltal/Darkrai/Malamar x 2 one with MegaMan one without, Ultimate Fairy Everything Man and Kyogre/Primal Kyogre right now

I can see looking for a Jirachi EX now, Lysandre Trump, AZ fer sure:play Jirachi turn 2, pull a Skyla, make magic stage 2, AZ make Jirachi go away, Ultra ball and magic stage 2 again, lovely

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Keep in mind that the cards I suggested to remove my previous post was made in regards to the cards I added.

 

I think Scorched Earth and Fiery Torch are great cards as long as you have enough energy to support them. With such a heavy Delphox line you can use a small amount of energy to the limit. In your current list they will work well.

 

While you are completely correct in running 4 SER in a regular Emboar deck the case is somewhat different with Delphox. SER is one of the most precious resources in the deck, it's what allows you to keep getting knock-outs.

Getting a hand with Sycamore + SER early on is one of the most painful things that can happen.

With Delphox and Lysandre's Trump Card you can use and reuse SER effectively most of the time which justifies cutting the count down to 3.

 

 

AZ is a very flexible card. It can for example also function like a Max Potion, Switch and removal of Head Ringer/Jamming Net and later be reused with VS Seeker. Which is pretty good qualities for this kind of deck but it is also a supporter.

 

As far as beating non-EXs goes it's very good to have an attacker where you can stick your energy to and not have to discard them. You may often run out of SER before the game is over otherwise while the threat of late game N is a big problem if you don't have Delphox.

I like relying on my heavy Delphox line to snag some necessary prizes against non-EX decks but there are also other basic attackers you could consider adding to the deck to improve your non-EX match-up.

 

It's worth noting that old Emboar and Blastoise decks often featured Electrode PLF to counteract late game N since Tropical Beach wasn't too reliable.

 

I don't really like Pyroar with Flare Command in this deck because it's a stage 1. With Delphox and an increased Lysandre/VS Seeker count you can pretty reliably achieve the same effect when needed.

Playing a Pyroar FLF line alongside it does heavily improve a lot of match-ups. However it's also a lot of space to invest.

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Thanks, man!

You are the best. All makes sense to me. Delphox not only has that awesome ability, but also an attack that can quickly become stupid with a lot of energy, it's perfect as a solution to my late game woes: and thanks for tipping me off in terms of Electrode PLF, I will try Delphox for sure. You talk lots of sense and I appreciate the advice.

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Okay

 

Camerupt EX x 3

 

Reshiram x 2

 

Tepig-Pignite-Emboar x 3-1-3

 

Fennekin-Braixen-Delphox x 1-0-1

 

14 total

 

N x 3

 

Professor Sycamore x 3

 

Shauna x 1

 

Skyla x 3

 

Superior Energy Retrieval x 4

 

Professor's Letter x 2

 

Scorched Earth x 2

 

Rare Candy x 3

 

Ultra Ball x 4

 

Lysandre x 1

 

Lysandre's Trump Card x 1

 

VS Seeker x 2

 

Escape Rope x 1

 

Town Map x 1

 

Weakness Policy x 1

 

Startling Megaphone x 1

 

Scramble Switch x 1

 

34 total

 

Fire Energy x 12

 

I incorporated some, affordability became an issue, sadly, I saw a full art Jirachi EX too. . . wish I'd just laid out for it. Maybe tomorrow it will still be there. If I can get my hands on it I'll throw it in with AZ. Can't do full Delphox unless I get big non discard attackers, then using Blacksmith would feasible to charge them up, not every turn. like a Rayquaza EX or Camerupt. That would be excellent, Ultra Ball away the two energies you attach with Blacksmith that you got from fetching and playing Jirachi EX. . . arg. . . I hope it's still there. Meantime, you don't think that's too many non-draw supporters? I figure I can discard *********** to get Emboar out and hope I get the trump card before I totally handicap myself, shouldn't change things too much from before, only when I do get the Trump Card, I can try for another couple big KO's. Just hope I dig enough energy out for the turn before I shuffle my discard pile and I should be fine.

Cheers

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I'm happy my advice is appreciated. :)

 

Playing a 1-0-1 Delphox line is more of a tech and not really enough to build the deck around it.

The reason why supporters can be cut down is because it's decent to rely on getting an early Delphox into play with a heavy line and a maximized stage 2 engine. While Lysandre's Trump Card which is difficult to pull of effectively without Delphox ability becomes more questionable.

A 1-0-1 line usually only comes into play mid/late game if at all. Which is not bad as it still digs for important resources and protects against late game N. One part of the line being prized is unfortunately an annoying possibility. While using it as an attacker is also painful as you only have 1 copy in the deck.

Nevertheless 1-0-1 Delphox is still very reasonable if you understand it's limitations.

 

The ace specs I would recommend for this deck is Computer Search, Master Ball or Dowsing Machine. The first two aiding in getting a turn 2 Emboar and Dowsing Machine giving a lot more versatility with your resources.

Scoop Up Cyclone generally functions like an improved Scramble Switch in this deck as you're also healing Camerupt EX/Reshiram and then you can attach the energy as you want with Emboar. It is worse in a situation where the opponents tries to Lysandre stall your Emboar however.

 

Even with Jirachi EX I think Blacksmith just shows disrespect for Emboar in this deck. Jirachi -> Skyla -> Superior Energy Retrieval for example does the same thing if you have Emboar in play.

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-1 Scramble Switch

+1 AZ

-1 Sycamore

+1 Jirachi EX

-1 Shauna

+1 Professor Sycamore

 

With any luck, I don't start with Jirachi. I have 5 chances thoughout the game (4 ultra ball , 1 Jirachi EX) to pull a rabbit out of the hat and get the one supporter I need, seems realistic it may be second turn to make sure Emboar is on my bench. You think maybe I should drop the escape rope and pack another AZ, I figure to pull Jirachi off the table and serve as ejector seat for any other pokemon? The problem I see with using it as a switch (to save a wounded Camerupt) is that I may not be able to without Emboar becoming active and causing a bigger headache. May be talking crazy, but letting Jirachi get knocked out then max revive or sacred ash or trump card. . . I dunno. . . should I worry about changing more cards to accomodate a 1-of might just pull the bacon out of the fire type card? If I'm not using it to collect my last prize cards aren't I just dangling an easy target for my opponent? I guess though it's like having an extra copy of every supporter I put in my deck or at least my chances of ending up with the exact supporter card I need is minimally improved, no. . . improved a great deal, since every ultra ball can be a Jirachi. Okay, odds are pretty good I'll either already have the supporter I need, or I'll be able to fetch Jirachi and get the right one.

Any advice on playing with a single copy?

And I totally agree, 1-0-1, Delphox may never appear, I thought about putting in the stage 1, but it's a waste of space since if the basic or stage 2 are prized, now there are two dead cards as opposed to one, that's why I left the town map, of course that only helps you if you can get a KO, and it shows up early game.

As to the Ace-Specs, I have two. Gold Potion and Scramble Switch, I think I prefer Gold Potion, but I don't see where to shoe horn it in.

And last: my chances of drawing Trump Card is very high, especially if I blast through my deck with Sycamore, by T4 I might already be over halfway through my deck: as soon as I've got most of or all of my attack plan in place, I turn the deck around and I have all the draw support back, except this time I'm simply plowing through the deck looking for energy, which ought to come up quick since it will be thinned out. What do you think?

And thanks for your patience Cymantex, I found another thread where you explained a good deal of this already, with regards to Delphox and Emboar vs Blacksmith as energy accelerators for Camerupt EX.

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Hasn't worked out, seems like it is better now I switched back to my first list, Blacksmith still came in handy, Jirachi didn't sit on my bench offering a tempting target, 1-0-1 for Delphox was not enough, trying to get at least a 2-1-2 line before I try that again, drop Reshiram in that case. Trump Card never came up at the right time and when it did have benefits it buried my energy in my deck, which stank. Jirachi's one time advantage was outweighed by the liability he represented later stuck on my bench and for some reason momentum was off, I still won, it just required more thinking. I dunno.

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I don't like to push my ideas too much and give the deck builder more room to think and make decisions for themselves.

 

However it has clearly not been working out with this Emboar Camerupt deck. :(

 

I'm gonna try to be more clear now.

 

 

 

I've been playing Emboar decks since it's release back in 2011.

 

Emboar decks needs a solid draw engine to work consistently. Which you can see by looking at the history of the deck.

 

 

 

With the rotation of Tropical Beach I honestly don't think there is much reason to play pure Emboar instead of the Delphox Emboar variant. Even with Tropical Beach Delphox + Emboar still was the stronger variant in my eyes.

 

Playing heavy Delphox is the way to go because the line pays for itself. Without it you need to just add more consistency cards and be stuck with the very nasty N weakness. Making the deck less versatile and more clunky.

 

 

 

If I were forced to not play Delphox I would run Electrode PLF instead, which is just a downgrade.

 

 

 

 

 

AZ should mainly be played for the Max Potion + Switch effect. Your preferred board is to have 2x Emboar, 2x Delphox and 2x Camerupt EX in play. If there is no space for the second Camerupt you more than likely still have something like a Fennekin or Jirachi EX in play with a 1 retreat cost that is easy to pay with Emboars ability.

 

 

 

Lysandre's Trump Card only works well with Delphox. Otherwise the fact that it takes up your entire supporter for the turn is generally too painful.

 

 

 

Blacksmith is not good in a dedicated Emboar deck. You should only consider this in a deck where Emboar is more of a tech and not an essential part of the strategy.

 

 

 

It's a common misconception that the main drawback of Jirachi EX is that it gives those 2 easy prizes on the bench.

 

That is not a reason it shouldn't be featured in a deck.

 

You decide yourself whenever you want to bench Jirachi EX and take that risk. It's rather just providing you with more options. It's usually a lot more dangerous to not have a supporter or getting your Stage 2 into play than having a 90 hp EX on your bench. You other option may just be be to pass your turn until you top deck a supporter or draw into a way to get your stage 2 into play which may only come several turns later when it's too late.

 

 

 

Between Gold Potion and Scramble Switch I think Scramble Switch is the better option. Gold Potion is lackluster. It's usually better to play a Max Potion in this deck. Switching effects being very important in this deck with both Emboar and Camerupt having a 4 retreat cost. Lysandre stall on Emboar being a common desperation for the opponent in a tough spot.

 

 

 

I strongly suggest trying changes in post #6.

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