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EX counters


zeemar
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I have seen a lot of people who are complaining on the forums about EXs, most of these players are quite new and inexperienced so I want to make this thread about cards that can help against EXs. Please feel free to add to this thread, this is to help new players so if you have any ideas don't hesitate to comment.

 

 

 

 

 

All EX counters

 

Donphan: it's very powerful with its spinning wreck attack and with enough setting up can easily OHKO any EXs, however the most effective donphan decks contain, strong energy an machamp ad without these donphan isn't very good.

 

Suicune/Sigilyph: These 2 cards have the ability safeguard which completely blocks all effects on attacks from EX pokemon. This ability doesn't protect your benched pokemon however.

 

 

 

Pyroar: Pyroar's intimidating mane ability prevents all effects of attacks from basic pokemon, this includes all EXs, however Megas do get around this ability.

 

 

Jolteon, scizor & Dialga EX: Both of these are able to use attacks that stop EXs from attacking next turn but only the active one. (Cobalion also has this attack but it works for active pokemon whether they're EX or not)

 

Team flare cards: These cards help greatly against EX, Jamming net reduces all damage to each of your pokemon by 20, this included benched pokemon, so any damage done to benched pokemon is reduced. and head ringer makes usually high attack costs even higher by one energy.

 

Training Centre (Stadium): This card provides +30 hp to all evolved pokemon, 30 Hp could put a pokemon out of OHKO reach from an EX.

 

 

 

Silver Bangle (Tool): This card lets you do 30 more damage to any EX pokemon

 

 

Gold breaker (Attack): does more damage to EXs

 

 

 

 

Specific EX counters:

 

 

 

Mr. mime/ Mountain ring: These two cards prevent bench damage which really hurts, M-blastoise EX and Landorus EX. and somewhat hurts darkrai EX.

 

 

 

Latias EX/Cobalion EX: latias' ability Bright down prevents all effects of attacks from pokemon with abilities, this not only helps against certain EXs, such as Mew EX it is also not affected by suicune's pyroar's or sigilyph's ability while its attack can hit them.

Cobalion EX has the same attack but does 30 more damage but doesn't have the ability

 

(however If you're trying to get help from this thread it would be somewhat hypocritical to use an EX)

 

 

 

The four most common types of EXs you'll find in today's format are

 

Dark types: Malamar EX which is weak to fighting and Yveltal which is weak to lightning.

 

Fighting types: Lucario EX which is weak to psychic & Landorus which is weak to water

 

Psychic types: Gengar EX which is weak to dark

 

Water types: Seismitoad EX which is weak to grass

 

 

These are the counters I have come up with so far but I will edit my post with any other suggestions.

Edited by zeemar
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I think it's kind of silly to mention malamar as the premiere dark type ex :P

I'd say the most popular dark type ex would be yveltal, who is weak to lightning and resists fighting.

 

Do note that these strategies are far from fool proof, as most people building decks with their strong ex pokemon will build their decks with counters to pokemon that may be listed in this thread.

 

I'd also say that the water type seismitoad is much more popular than the exs you listed, and is weak to grass.

Edited by TheRyanNeighbor
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Some other EX counters:

 

Jolteon (Plasma Freeze) and Dialga-EX (Phantom Forces) have an attack that blocks a Pokemon-EX from attacking next turn. This will take down any EX as long as they remain in play, but it's easily countered if the opponent can swap it out. (Dialga's attack is also bugged at the moment and doesn't work properly. Beware.)

 

There are a number of Pokemon (BW Bouffalant, Plasma Freeze Vaporeon) with attacks named "Gold Breaker" that do more damage to Pokemon-EX than non-EX.

 

Furious Fists Hawlucha can only attack Pokemon-EX, but it can do 60 damage for just one Energy, meaning this bird sets up instantly.

Edited by Stratadrake
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I think it's kind of silly to mention malamar as the premiere dark type ex :P

 

I'd say the most popular dark type ex would be yveltal, who is weak to lightning and resists fighting.

 

 

 

Do note that these strategies are far from fool proof, as most people building decks with their strong ex pokemon will build their decks with counters to pokemon that may be listed in this thread.

 

 

 

I'd also say that the water type seismitoad is much more popular than the exs you listed, and is weak to grass.

while I agree none of these strategies are fool proof, this thread is just to help people get some sort of idea to beat EX decks. Very few of these cards are actually cards that will win games but they can potentially be a wall to stop EXs while a player gets set up. Also one of the reasons I asked for ideas from people is so players can choose some more obscure counters that decks won't be prepared for.

Edited by zeemar
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also worth noting to be wary of any cobalion ex, as they will be able to attack your pokemon regardless of your abilites, and can OHKO suicune, sigilyph, and with a muscle band, pyroar.

Edited by TheRyanNeighbor
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Hawlucha FFI- For a single energy this card can hit EX Pokemon hard, and with the right support can easily 2HKO them. It also has free retreat and a pretty good resistance.

 

Scizor BCR- Stops all damage to itself from EX Pokemon for a DCE. It also can do 100 for MCC.

 

Team Flare Tools- Both of these tools are excellent against opposing EX. Head Ringer forces more energy attachment while Jamming Net reduces all damage (both to active and bench) by 20 before weakness. If your active is weak to fighting and you put a Jamming Net on Landorus EX, it will only do 20 to the active, 10 to the bench. That's a 60 damage swing (100 damage swing if you prevented them from placing a muscle band). Flare Tools also prevents the opposing EX from using an otherwise helpful tool like float stone and muscle band.

Edited by xOnionx
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Another advice from me for new players is playing trainer challenge and incorporating the few EX you might get into your decks. This will also help and make the game more fun for you. That's what I did until I was able to build a few good decks and get some EX counters. Since these cards are known as EX counters some of them might be as hard to obtain as the EX cards themselves.

Edited by Calipos
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  • 2 months later...

Leafeon PLF, has a one  colourless Energy Short type attack, which does 20x amount of damage attached to all your opponent's pokemon, pretty sure it's Plasma Freeze, ultimate counter to Multiple Seismitoads with DCE attached and Groudon EX, it's been the bane of my Primal Groudon deck recently since if I have Primal ready to go, with 4 energy it hits, for one energy 80 times 2 for weakness, 16o damage. Brutal. Awesome.  Mewtwo EX is nice to have in any deck, two colourless X Ball helps defeat those OHKO high energy super attackers (like my Primal Groudon. . . ARG)

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Silent Lab will make Mew-EX completely unusable which can shut down a Night March deck.

 

Also cripples Virizion/Genesect, Deoxys, Lugia...

Edited by thetamale
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Tbh newer players need to work on their consistency first, and their cards second. From my experience back from when I was in the beginner's brackets most, if not all EX decks are basically every single copy of EX Pokemon they can get their hands on thrown together in a deck with 20 or so energies of 3-5 types. Easily defeat-able by any semi decent deck (i.e. Gallade) that has any consistency worth a ****.

 

It's easier and more efficient working towards acquiring cards like Juniper/Sycamore, Rare Candies, Skylas, etc. and this can benefit them far more in the long run.

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AGREE, trainer cards that refresh your hand or search out the cards you want can make any cockamamie combination of creatures fun to play, having the staple trainers is totally clutch.  If you can cycle through your deck and get the pokemon you want it's more fun than sitting there unable to play anyting while some outrageous EX card takes KO after KO.

 

Keeping on topic though, Silent Lab also stops that irritating Keldeo EX from rushing in with his float stone, that's a cheap card that can be found in abundance.  Too bad you probably have to bring 3 of them and no one wil trade you a Skyla so you can search it out. . .

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Ooo, oh yeah, Jolteon from PLF has a Dialga EX Chrono Wind type attack: two energy (one electric) defending pokemon-EX cannot attack next turn.  That's probably not easy to get a hold of either tho.

How bout Mega Diancie: :) something like, prevent all damage done to your pokemon by pokemon-EX during your opponent's next turn.  Haha.  At least you can purchase that at your local giant blue box with a smiley face retailer.

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Ooo, oh yeah, Jolteon from PLF has a Dialga EX Chrono Wind type attack: two energy (one electric) defending pokemon-EX cannot attack next turn. That's probably not easy to get a hold of either tho.

How bout Mega Diancie: :) something like, prevent all damage done to your pokemon by pokemon-EX during your opponent's next turn. Haha. At least you can purchase that at your local giant blue box with a smiley face retailer.

Jolteon? It's an Uncommon, so it's pretty obtainable. Problem is the "Alsheimers effect" (If you're able to get the Pokèmon from active to bench and back, it counts as a new pokemon) However, falls hard to Yveltal XY. It's just a retreat away from a hard time.

 

I'm going to dismiss Diancie as well. Too much kills it, and it's a pain to get into play and without a Spirit Link, it's even slower.

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Add Medicham (ancient trait) to the list. Not so much a counter as it is a 1hko for most EX. Can easily hit for 180 damage on turn 2 and just wipe the board with EXs. Trust me, I've been on the receiving end of that guy.

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Add Medicham (ancient trait) to the list. Not so much a counter as it is a 1hko for most EX. Can easily hit for 180 damage on turn 2 and just wipe the board with EXs. Trust me, I've been on the receiving end of that guy.

By that logic, Night March is an EX counter. :P

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That's all good and well  listing all those cards that can "counter" EX cards, but what if one doesn't have such cards? I personally don't have any of those listed cards, nor enough EX cards to make a deck. Does that mean I'm not in a position to play with a custom deck?

 

Further more, if every deck needs to be built around EX cards, that drastically reduces the viability of almost every non-ex card in the entire game.

 

I personally think there should be another deck type - one between Theme and Standard (Basic perhaps?) where EX cards are banned. That way new players, or those who simply wish to use their favorite cards that are otherwise helpless against EX decks, can play without the fear of having all their cards 1 shoted every turn.

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That's all good and well  listing all those cards that can "counter" EX cards, but what if one doesn't have such cards? I personally don't have any of those listed cards, nor enough EX cards to make a deck. Does that mean I'm not in a position to play with a custom deck?

 

Further more, if every deck needs to be built around EX cards, that drastically reduces the viability of almost every non-ex card in the entire game.

 

I personally think there should be another deck type - one between Theme and Standard (Basic perhaps?) where EX cards are banned. That way new players, or those who simply wish to use their favorite cards that are otherwise helpless against EX decks, can play without the fear of having all their cards 1 shoted every turn.

 

1. If you don't own any of the specific Ex counters it doesn't mean that all of your opponents will own a fully teched out deck.

The idea of this thread is to show beginners how easy it is to overcome those big Pokemon and not to discuss whether or not a format without EX Pokemon would be healthy ( which it wouldn't, but thats another story).

 

2. If you want to compete with the current meta game then yes, you have to build acordingly, whether it is against Pokemon EX or anything else. However you have to keep in mind that there was a long period in the game without those "unfair" cards and you still weren't able to play anything you want, because certain cards are by nature stronger than others and thus there will always be "the cards to beat".

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Donphan with the right support can beat EXs.

But the donphan deck is time consuming nad if u take time to think, u will time out in tournaments. BTW i am also a new player.

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By that logic, Night March is an EX counter. :P

Night march is not feasible for us new players as it needs 3 Mew ex and if u want to make it better u need jirachi ex also. For guys who dont have even the cards listed above Jirachi is not possible

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Night march is not feasible for us new players as it needs 3 Mew ex and if u want to make it better u need jirachi ex also. For guys who dont have even the cards listed above Jirachi is not possible

 

Yes, you can make a Night March deck that can go toe to toe with EXs even without EXs, but it won't be as good. That is expected, really, since the people who don't want to struggle, experiment, and simply commit should not in any way be capable of winning against the people who would go all the way to do that. Any game that allows you to do that is in my opinion a badly designed game.

 

I can understand not wanting to get Jirachi, but Mew EX, who costs only a pack each? (fyi, Medicham costs the same, and Donphan is more expensive) With all the outs you new players have, that shouldn't be too hard. You should be able to get 2-3 after winning a single theme deck tournament, and that's not including the boosters you get from the mystery wheel, or the fairly high chance of drawing one from an LTR Booster pack.

 

Jirachi EX and Computer Search is about the only big purchase, which is fine given the deck can run perfectly well without it.

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Night march is not feasible for us new players as it needs 3 Mew ex and if u want to make it better u need jirachi ex also. For guys who dont have even the cards listed above Jirachi is not possible

 

I am running it with 2 Mew EX which I find well sufficient. I got both for one pack each.

 

About Jiraichi, I would say it is needed against top decks as it adds a lot of consistency by negating bad early draws.

 

However that's all it does, without him you can still beat other top decks, and definitely obliterate any deck which just spams EX pokemon without any strategy behind it. 

 

 

If you want to compete with the current meta game then yes, you have to build acordingly,  (...)

not to discuss whether or not a format without EX Pokemon would be healthy ( which it wouldn't, but thats another story).

 

By stating your opinion about it you kinda add fuel to the discussion.

I'll just say that IMO the "meta" shouldn't be shoved down the throat of every single player who wants to play other human opponents, which pretty much is the case at the moment. Some people enjoy playing for fun with the less uber powerful pokemon and they are kinda denied this opportunity at the moment. (Minus theme decks but you don't build those so it's not the same thing).

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Hmmm.. . yeah, I thought it was about building your own unique thing, but I agree that it seems to be the concensus that to be competitive you have to play one of these 'proven' decks. Seems like the focus on competition limits the imagination of players. I'm finding that I feel like my deck is boring when I am matched up with someone who actually plays with stage 2's it means at least there's a greater variety in the pokemon you see.

Define 'health' in terms of the game?? I don't see why a format that excludes some cards would suddenly be 'unhealthy' or unplayable. . .

There's a lot of complaining, I find it unlikely Pokemon will do anything about it.

Maybe someone could start an 'evolution' league, which doesn't allow EX's? I might actually get some value out of all the 'other' cards I get out of the booster packs I buy in the lottery to beat the odds and pull EXs. I don't know if that would encourage more ingenuity. Maybe I'm just getting bored and hoping some change will make the game more exciting. Half decks? Better mystery boxes on the prize wheel?

Getting pumped up, though, I must admit. My neighbourhood store has the Roaring Skies prerelease this weekend, I'll be there spending money and hoping I get one of those cards that gives my opponents an 'Oh ****, he's got one of those things' moment.

Edited by fr33land
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Hmmm.. . yeah, I thought it was about building your own unique thing, but I agree that it seems to be the concensus that to be competitive you have to play one of these 'proven' decks.  Seems like the focus on competition limits the imagination of players.  I'm finding that I feel like my deck is boring when I am matched up with someone who actually plays with stage 2's it means at least there's a greater variety in the pokemon you see.

Define 'health' in terms of the game??  I don't see why a format that excludes some cards would suddenly be 'unhealthy' or unplayable. . . 

 

To clarify, it won't be any different from what it is now. EX Pokemon is not the reason those Pokemon are "unplayable". It is those Pokemon being unplayable to begin with. The problem lies in the design of those cards themselves.

 

No, focus on competition does not limit the imagination of players. Otherwise we won't be seeing decks like Exeggcutor, or Groudon Dusknoir, or Flareon, or Donphan, or Speed Florges EX, or, well, a whole ton of things. People with limited imaginations will have limited imaginations no matter what you do. Cut out EXs and suddenly everyone will be looking for lists and copying the strongest thing they find for the no EX format. The format will then still boil down to the same few decks instead of letting you play whatever you want to play. 

 

It will be an unhealthy change because you split up the player base without any actual benefit. Unplayable cards will still remain unplayable until someone finds a way to make them playable. That's all there is to it.

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