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Whats your opinion on Seismitoad ex? Will it dictate the meta?


Xabalanque

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This seems like the new Yveltal ex, the card that will be all over the meta and force every deck to react. Just from playing a couple of matches online, most people can already see its power. Its biggest issue is being quickly outpaced in damage. Virbank + muscle band = 110 damage on the defending pokemon by your next turn, barring a costly energy switch. Its biggest threat is things that outpace its damage and can one hit it, in otherwords Virizion/Genesect/VirGen. With Dark Patches coming rotation, it seems Virgen might actually be in the best position to profit in the meta as it alone so far can deal with Seismitoad.

 

Thoughts, opinions? Also - is there anything more annoying than a Seismitoad facing another Seismitoad without muscle bands/lasers on either of them? These Seismitoad lock fests may be happening more and more :(

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Guest ArtichokeCat

Seismetoad EX OP.

As we all know, anything with the power to lock your opponent out of Trainer cards (specifically items, in this case) is Good.

So what makes Seismetoad EX OP and not Dragonite PF or Zebstrika NXD?

The high HP and how easy it is to set up.

 

The meta will be Big Basics+ Seismetoad EX vs Vir-Gen, as he said in his post.

 

Plasma is DEAD.

Item Lock+Silver Mirror= GG

Item Lock by itself will slow Plasma down A LOT.

No one plays Skarmory EX.

 

Vir-Gen might also be slowed down significantly because of Item Lock + Silver Mirror,

Preventing Genesect EX from attacking fo easy KOs.

But it has Red Signal so that shouldn't be a problem.

With Garbotoxin in play, there's still Lysandre.

 

Really, there just aren't many things that can easily OHKO a Seismetoad EX or deal with it easily.

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I dont think so, seismitoad seems great at first but i dont think it will live up to the hype.

the 30 damage just isnt enough to make any kind or impact.. even with muscle band 50 damage is louzy and there are enough trainers in the format now that items are not as essential as they used to be anymore..

so yeah.. we'll see but i doubt it.

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Put 4 Seismitoad and 4 Lysandre in deck and win. You can just pull out pokemons with high retreat cost, opponent can't switch them because of item lock, Lysandre at will, Pal Pad Lysandre back and do more Lysandre. This is just simple idea that came to mind right now, but shows how broken Seismitoad can be. And you can start this tactic from turn one if you pass playing first.

Eventually people will come up with ideas that will potentially lock opponent from doing anything from the turn 1.

 

Lysandre, Team Flare Grunt, Trick Shovel, Catchers, Scoop Ups for resetting damage on Seismitoad, Magnetic Storm/Virbank/Lasers, Garbodor, Even Genesects for Red Signaling, Red Cards. It's an ultimate controlling card paired with some other controlling trainers and pokemons.

 

With Seismitoad you don't need any draw supporters in deck because of ridiculously easy setting up, so you can use supporters that are controlling field instead. Imagine fighting Sesmitoad and getting everything denied to you because of Team Flare Grunts and Lysandres every turn. And I mean EVERY turn because of Pal Pads. And when you finally get that attack on Seismitoad - BAM - Pokemon Centre Lady.

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I'm wondering if any of the cards that state "Prevent all effects of attack (sometimes includes damage)" would prevent the item lock from taking place..

 

Most of these cards say only "on this Pokemon" (or similar) - so I'd have my doubts that it would stop the item lock, since it's not really an effect on the defending Pokemon as it is on the opposing player...

 

Testing needed.

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Guest ArtichokeCat
I'm wondering if any of the cards that state "Prevent all effects of attack (sometimes includes damage)" would prevent the item lock from taking place..

 

Most of these cards say only "on this Pokemon" (or similar) - so I'd have my doubts that it would stop the item lock, since it's not really an effect on the defending Pokemon as it is on the opposing player...

 

Testing needed.

 

Yeah I'm thinking Sigilyph and Suicune with the Safeguard ability.

However, they probably run Garbodor so it's not that useful.

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Yeah I'm thinking Sigilyph and Suicune with the Safeguard ability.

However, they probably run Garbodor so it's not that useful.

 

Maybe not the ability to prevent effects - but some pokemon have an attack that gives the prevention ability (sometimes with a coin flip, some without)

 

Example: Carbink (Flashfire 68/106) : 1x fairy energy "Flip a coin. If heads, prevent all effects of attacks, including damage, done to this pokemon during your opponent's next turn."

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Toad/Mewtwo/Garb thats what i run and it works. Believe me.. the hype is real. If you can get a turn one toad you are almost guaranteed the game

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I hate this deck with a passion! It's ridiculously good against lando ;/ I've actually been thinking of playing shaymin ex or leafeon cause of this card.

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Not necessarily overpowered, but it's an unfun card to play against in my opinion. It just severely limits your options whenever it starts rolling, up to the point where it can potentially create a lockdown. Unfun is the keyword I'd describe it with.

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Guest ArtichokeCat
Not necessarily overpowered, but it's an unfun card to play against in my opinion. It just severely limits your options whenever it starts rolling, up to the point where it can potentially create a lockdown. Unfun is the keyword I'd describe it with.

 

Apparently Espeon DEX can prevent the Item Lock.

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Apparently Espeon DEX can prevent the Item Lock.

 

Yeah, will probably include that in my Eevee deck once I get around to building one. Though I'm really not a fan of any cards that can potentially lockdown a deck, and only have very few/specific counters to go against it. While cards like Mewtwo EX and Yveltal EX are very powerful, you still have full control over your deck and how you play it. Limiting options isn't a fun mechanic to play against because it takes away choice.

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Apparently Espeon DEX can prevent the Item Lock.

That's confusing, and just based on how the cards in question read, it might be a bug. Seismitoad EX's attack says the opponent can't play any Item cards from his or her hand during his or her next turn. Espeon's Ability says that it prevents all effects of attacks (aside from damage, of course) to any of your Pokémon with Energy attached. The effect of Seismitoad's attack affects the opposing player, while Espeon's Ability prevents effects done to Pokémon.

 

If an attack said to discard a card from your opponent's deck or hand, has Espeon's Ability been preventing that?

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Guest ArtichokeCat
That's confusing, and just based on how the cards in question read, it might be a bug. Seismitoad EX's attack says the opponent can't play any Item cards from his or her hand during his or her next turn. Espeon's Ability says that it prevents all effects of attacks (aside from damage, of course) to any of your Pokémon with Energy attached. The effect of Seismitoad's attack affects the opposing player, while Espeon's Ability prevents effects done to Pokémon.

 

If an attack said to discard a card from your opponent's deck or hand, has Espeon's Ability been preventing that?

 

IDK That's just what I heard. I haven't tested it yet.

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wouldnt matter. espeon is getting rotated out next week anyways so unless you play nothing but unlimited format it wont matter

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I have had this discussion with my local friends many times already since I intend to play toad and have already begun to do so. IT IS EXTREMELY UNFUN. I say that as someone who plays the deck. It's slow. It removes any kind of excitement from the game and it is rage inducing on the opponent when 95% of all decks are item based and can be blocked turn 2. I play the deck because it wins .. ALOT. But it is very unfun and I wont even lie about that. I would rather play a straight game and deal with whatever is thrown at me. But that's just me... My friend says I hate the game because I play garbodor. Guess I want to burn the world down since I play toad and garb now..

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Guest ArtichokeCat
wouldnt matter. espeon is getting rotated out next week anyways so unless you play nothing but unlimited format it wont matter

 

Dude, it was reprinted as a Promo in the Sylveon Collection

Don't scare the people. :P

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few things worth noting from this discussion:

 

Silver mirror does not work with seismitoad

I do not believe espeon would protect against the effect of quaking punch

I believe Virizion itself would respond quite well to seismitoad given its resistance and being grass

 

seismitoad ex is nonetheless going to be quite a difficult one to counter I think especially for none ex decks. I think EX decks in general might be annoyed by the item lock but most would be able to at least get by with supporters and drawing energy.

Just getting an energy on Thundurus EX is enough to get things going for plasma

Virgen can just power up virizion to handle seismitoad

Fighting decks will have to hold off on their landorus and use something like a hawlucha or lucario ex which can probabaly manage quite decently still.

 

Its mainly the stage 2 decks whoa re going to suffer, its hard enough trying to draw into rare candy and the stage 2 in a timely fashion and that's going to get much harder with level ball and heavy ball gone, and in addition to that you can't even compensate with other item cards

 

with cards like pyroar and seismitoad EX, seems like the trend is aiming for stage 1 pokemon at this point

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Guest ArtichokeCat

Ok, thanks for noting that Silver Mirror doesn't work on Seismetoad EX. :)

 

Also yeah just getting a Grass type out with resistance to Water is pretty good,

which makes Leafeon PLF a decent counter. Combined with the new Eevee, you can get it out quickly.

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Seismitoad-EX is great news because T1 item lock is awful for the game's diversity on a fundamental level. The designers have recently been active in taking action against such major flaws (the first turn rule changes, catcher nerf, Virizion-EX released shortly after laser, etc.), and Seismitoad-EX should be no exception to that trend.

 

Even if they were to make a splashable direct counter, like a grass-type card that is similar to the latest Dedenne, that alone will not be enough because the item lock makes it hard to get the counter out reliably. Therefore the designers will most likely be forced to create some item-independent setup options for evolution decks in the form of Stadiums, Abilities and Supporters, which should be amazing for deckbuilding and skill-intensity of games.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I also think the ability to item lock T1 (if you go 2nd) can be stupidly powerful. Seismatoad EX itself isn't that strong, but when you combine it with Muscle Band, Laser, Hammer his attack becomes quite powerful and spammy. His presence alone also rips Stage 2 decks consistency apart, as if Stage 2's didn't have enough of an uphill battle. Was item lock on a 180HP basic for a DCE really necessary?

 

Stackable attacks like those on Mewtwo EX and Yveltal EX are very effective against toad, but Toad lists have been revised to be able to handle these threats fairly efficiently. Since I want to see people counter and beat toad as much as possible, here are some ideas. They might not work, but it's worth getting more ideas flowing.

 

-A T2 Megalo Cannon wrecks Toad (requires a T1 Colress Machine) but watch out for Mewtwo.

-Leafeon can deal massive damage mid to late game, but if he is doing that much damage, it also means your opponent has multiple attackers set up.

-Pokemon that can discard energy, namely Cobalion EX as a T2 Toad almost always means a DCE is attached.

-Toad doesn't like to be confused. It could mean breaking the lock AND receiving 30 damage.

-Red Genesect BW99 can 2/3 shot Toad with a chance to discard an energy all for a DCE.

-Decks that run less items and more support/energy are not as affected as much.

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Personally, I felt that seismitoad ex wasn't a huge competive card from the day I first saw it. Now I know item lock can be huge, however, with Lysandre, Pokemon center lady, and Korrina item cards are becoming less of a necessity. Also on T1 you can set up things you may need to. If you have a muscle band on turn one (or have a way to get it turn 1) the item block doesn't affect you as much then. Or if you need to heal pokemon center lady will be able to avoid the block since it is a supporter. So I don't think the hype seismitoad has gotten is rightly founded on anything. Now I may be wrong, but I'd need a good amount of convincing to make me believe it will really affect the metagame.

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