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To the Developing Team: PvP Rewarding Problem + Solutions


Snaiu

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Dear developers,

 

I have been playing and testing the game for about half a year now, and there is one particular aspect of the game I like the most: multiplayer. I think it is safe to assume most users of Pokemon TGC online find playing against real players the real challenge, since playing against AI is:

 

  1. Boring: you can only use the theme decks, so it is not your own creation
  2. Easy: even on expert they do hilarious stuff (although I must admit the bots are much better then most card games.)
  3. Only good if you have not beaten them all for the booster packs yet.

 

The main problem is you are forced to play against AI since they give much more and faster tokens then playing against humans. I just played a 30 minute game (one sided, he or she was sort of slow thinking) against another person for 1! trainer token.

 

While I agree that you can not award PvP battles too much tokens each battle, 1 is a ridiculous amount. It means you have to play 95 games to get 1 booster package. I do not know if this is intended, but that seems an extraordinary amount of time. Taking an average of 10 min per game you will have to spend 16 hours per booster package. Playing against bots on the other hand (average of 3 min per game) will earn you a booster package within 18 minutes. This is quiet a difference, and it should be the other way around.

 

I am not only here to point out this problem, but I would like to give some suggestions to fix this problem:

 

  1. Tournaments are coming soon, and I feel this will be huge: giving players the opportunity to play and win tokens will greatly benefit PvP battles. This is a way to improve token gaining.
  2. Increase the amount of tokens you gain. You can do this in several ways: Increase token gain per game time (a game that took 30 min should be rewarded more then a game that took only 4 min 30 sec.). Increase token gain if you win (for example reward 4 tokens on a loss and 8 on a win with increasing the reward up to 6 and 12 the longer a game takes.)
  3. Give a number of bonus tokens if you win a certain amount of game: after your first 5 battles won versus players you get f.e 10 tokens, the next 10 battles again 10 tokens, 25 battles 15 tokens, and so on. You could also give players achievements on their profile like : % won, # of games won against opponents, etc.
  4. Increase the reward based on the number of prize cards taken: you start at 2 tokens and per prize card you gain 1.

 

These are just random suggestions that crossed my mind, and I do not wish to force you to implement them at all. I just think right now players are not really rewarded for playing against real humans instead of AI opponents. Feel free to reply why or why they can not be implemented! Thanks again for making this game, I enjoy it a lot and I think the developing team does a great job! It brings back memories from when I was a child, and while I am not able to bring all my cards into my online collection (they are way too old), I enjoy playing online a lot. If I can help further in any way to contribute to the game, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Cheers,

 

Snaiu

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[Content removed - please keep all discussion on the topic of Pokémon. - Prof. Poplar] if you win 30 games thats 1 booster pack, ofc they also have the daily log in that you have. But their boosters guarantee a rare out of 5 cards or more. They only have around 350 cards to pick from as well, you guys have a couple thousand. It's incredibly difficult for new players to get into the game because of all the decks that mow them down. Put new game modes, the community has asked countless times for non ex game mode. I would love playing my non ex at a competitive level. FIX THE LAG

 

also their games only last 5-15 minutes

[Content removed - please keep all discussion on the topic of Pokémon. - Prof. Poplar] has a very nice story mode that is very fun. netting you some extra cards. trainer challenge is lame and boring.

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Hi Snaiu,

 

Great suggestions! I'll pass these up to the Dev team and leave your thread open in the meantime.

 

As always, we appreciate your input! :)

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I like the idea of scaling the Token reward off how well you did in game, but it would have to accommodate for victories where you KO all of their Pokemon as well. Otherwise there would be an incentive to toy with a losing opponent for more Tokens and that's not the sort of thing that should be encouraged. There's also Decking Out and Lost World(in Unlimited) as win conditions. No reason someone who's running a mill deck(which already lack decent support) should receive less rewards than someone using a standard aggro deck.

 

So, let's assume that a 6-0 victory nets you 6 Tokens(one for each Prize Card you prevented them obtaining). I think it's fair to say that a 6-3 victory is just as impressive, if not more so, as you've taken their Pokemon out too fast for them to bench more. So let's say you get X Tokens automatically if you finish your opponent before grabbing all your prize cards; where 'X' is the number of prize cards they have remaining. Maybe even make it X+1, as this situation should mean you've had an especially strong win.

 

Them decking out is a bit different, as it may have nothing to do with how your deck functioned. Perhaps the system could register mill effects(Eg Aggron's Toppling Wind Ability) and have a scale to determine how significant a factor your milling was to them decking out, then add that to a base reward bonus for winning by an opponent having no more cards.

Let's say you get 3 Token's for them decking out, then 1 more Token for every 6 cards you milled in the duration of the game, to a maximum of 7 Token's(or Gems, if they're ever rewarded instead). Mill decks are already an obscure deck type to build so I think getting a little extra than a standard win is justified.

I guess it would have to work against your opponents win variable too, in the same way grabbing Prizes off them does(so for very 6 cards you milled they would lose 1 off their prize count). Would also be affected by the negative variables itself, of course.

 

I wouldn't be so worried about a Lost World/Gengar deck. They could just make winning via the effect of Lost World count as claiming 6 Prizes, but whether that's worth doing is questionable. Suppose people have a right to play that deck in Unlimited if they've got the cards to, so why not?

 

Rewarding for consecutive wins sounds nice, but I'd prefer they made the internal match-win scaling the priority here. Consecutive wins may work better as a sequence of achievements, anyway.

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AIs rewarding more tokens should not be a problem since it only works for a limited number of times, i.e. once you've beaten them once with every theme deck they stop rewarding you tokens. So essentially its just a way to help boost beginners a little bit. the pvp rewards is kept low because it can be earned unlimited number of times.

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Like most online games now you can play them for free but you have to grind to get everything if you don't want to spend money. I think the true balance is to get the game to the point where you can grind to get a big collection but doing so will take longer than putting money into the game. However, it should not be take eternities to grind to a collection as it is now.

 

Here is my suggestion:

 

*Increase the daily versus bonus by making it available for more than 1 game each day. Maybe increase it so that for the first three games you play you can earn 10 tokens each game. Then after that make each games set at 3-5 tokens. 1 token is just too low. So lets say you play 5 games a day on average. You get your daily login (15), three bonus match games (30), two regular match games (10). A daily total of 55 tokens for about 1-2 hours of play. So people devoting a decent amount of time to the game would be rewarded a booster pack about every other day.

 

The numbers can obviously be tweaked, but this takes some of the confusion out of having a formula decide how many tokens you get. Especially because if you have a time element people are going to start a game and walk away from the computer. This is why I suggest a flat game bonus. I think that rewarding players a non-tradable booster every other day for a decent amount of time devotion is fair though.

 

Personally though I can't wait for the gem system to be in game. I just don't want any paper cards because I have no one to play with. But being able to buy cards online only would be something that would make my experience better.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Like most online games now you can play them for free but you have to grind to get everything if you don't want to spend money. I think the true balance is to get the game to the point where you can grind to get a big collection but doing so will take longer than putting money into the game. However, it should not be take eternities to grind to a collection as it is now.

 

Here is my suggestion:

 

*Increase the daily versus bonus by making it available for more than 1 game each day. Maybe increase it so that for the first three games you play you can earn 10 tokens each game. Then after that make each games set at 3-5 tokens. 1 token is just too low. So lets say you play 5 games a day on average. You get your daily login (15), three bonus match games (30), two regular match games (10). A daily total of 55 tokens for about 1-2 hours of play. So people devoting a decent amount of time to the game would be rewarded a booster pack about every other day.

 

The numbers can obviously be tweaked, but this takes some of the confusion out of having a formula decide how many tokens you get. Especially because if you have a time element people are going to start a game and walk away from the computer. This is why I suggest a flat game bonus. I think that rewarding players a non-tradable booster every other day for a decent amount of time devotion is fair though.

 

Personally though I can't wait for the gem system to be in game. I just don't want any paper cards because I have no one to play with. But being able to buy cards online only would be something that would make my experience better.

 

Im in Canada, so I have the gem system. Don't hold your breath, 25 bucks for a virtual darkrai card, you are better to print cards on 5 dollar bills then buy gems. If they get things at about 1/10th of the cost they are now it would be worth it, but they have a super inflated market compared to the rest of the web.

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Im in Canada, so I have the gem system. Don't hold your breath, 25 bucks for a virtual darkrai card, you are better to print cards on 5 dollar bills then buy gems. If they get things at about 1/10th of the cost they are now it would be worth it, but they have a super inflated market compared to the rest of the web.

 

it is only supposed to be highly inflated because of its still in trial. there was mention in a thread somewhere by that they intend to do refunds when the system launches officially

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Two and a half dollars for a Darkrai EX is too cheap, there would be no reason to buy booster packs or theme decks etc, though 25 dollars might be a bit much.

 

Anyways, I do agree the rewards are too low as they are right now. What's worse is that you might not even earn that token if your opponent forfeits. Maybe give tokens even if the opponent forfeits.

 

However, I think some of the suggestions here are a bit much, earning 55+ tokens a day so easily would mean you can easily get a booster pack every second day, which makes it too easy and means no one will buy packs. I think games should reward on average about 5 tokens, which isn't too much, since you'd still have to win 19 or so matches to get a booster pack, which may seem much but that number drops with the daily login bonus and the first battle giving you an extra 10, that drops the battles per day for a booster pack to 14, which is pretty fair for getting free packs.

 

The idea of basing how many tokens you get off how well you did is great, though.

I have an idea about how to organise the rewards:

 

-A token per prize cards taken which was suggested before, seems like a great idea to me.

-maybe with a 3 token bonus for winning by knocking out all their benched and active pokemon. However, this should only apply after a few turns (turn four? So that each player has an adequate amount of time to set up with a decent hand) or if they play more than a certain amount of pokemon (i.e. 3 or more), otherwise it could just mean they had a really bad opening hand and you got a lucky turn two donk or something.

-perhaps a 5 or 3 token bonus for milling them, since that tends to mean it was a tight match.

-A base bonus of 3 tokens (or four), which gets subtracted from for each prize card your opponent has taken until it hits zero, it wont go into the negatives. I.E. you win a match without your opponent taking any prize cards, so you get 3 tokens, if they take one prize card you get 2 tokens, if they take two, you get one token and so on. If they take three or more, you get no bonus.

-A bonus for playing more cards like trainers or something, this could indicate strategic plays or something. Perhaps a token for every 10 or 8 trainers played. Maybe a bonus for each stage two brought into play, and a smaller bonus for stage ones, to reward players trying to do something a little bit harder.

 

That's all I can think of, I'd add points for a dramatic or intense game, but the AI probably can't judge that.

 

I know this might add up to be too much, but keeping in mind no one deck will likely achieve all of these, and some of them (like knocking out all their pokemon to win) aren't going to happen all the time or too often, they will be rewards to doing things that are hard to do, like the bringing stage twos into play.

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