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Slow players; players who take too long


EvErLoyaLEagLE

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One thing I noticed about the timer function of PKMN TCGO is if a player does not make a move within 2 minutes, the match will be given to the other player and the turn player will automatically lose. That sounds fair considering if a player is lagging, or is AFK at the moment. But there is another issue:

 

Earlier today, I played against a player who, and [Content removed - posting profanity is not permitted under any circumstances. -Prof. Poplar], literally took 90 seconds per move, effectively taking about 7 minutes per turn. By the end of the match, his timer was down to less than 5 minutes remaining, and somehow he STILL won. It was a very irritating and frustrating match, as I thought he wasn't making a move because he was lagging or AFK. It wasted a lot of time, and, in my opinion and belief, it was a disrespectful way to play PKMN TCGO.

 

What I am suggesting is to change the timer function on the PKMN TCGO to make the game forced to be played faster, and do so by adding this feature to the timer:

 

If a player does not make any single move within 2 minutes, they will automatically lose by the timer rule and the match is given to the other player.

 

ADDITIONALLY, if a player does not attack/end their turn within 3 minutes, they will automatically lose by the timer rule and the match is given to the other player.

No one wants to play with Slowbro's and Snorlax's, so I suggest you make this game be played faster than a Rapidash beating a Dodrio in a footrace.

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Unfortunately people really can't afford to play too fast or being too aggressive, otherwise they won't receive any tokens :(

 

I used to take less than 5 seconds per turn (when not searching deck), and some of the times I ended up getting no tokens because the match didn't last 4:30 minutes, and other times I just start so strong that my opponent rage quits right there, it's really frustrating.

 

Because of this I have been trying to delay my turns a little and only playing aggressively after 4:30 minutes, because I don't want to waste my time and my efforts trying to get a little more tokens.

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For some points I agree with you xsYosho!! People unfortunately not realize though that simply waiting without do anything actually is not the best solution to earn 1 token at least for sure because if you not do anything the game force you to sarrender!! The best solution is to make a very good defense deck and not attack if opponent or you yet have 4 or more prices!! Usually i earn 1 token on pvp after i or my opponent take already 4 or more prices!! On pvp unlimited-modified it almost impossible because the most players here use Ex cards and they don't intresting about tokens and on pvp deck theme perhaps it is a little more easier to take tokens but usually here users sarrender!! Only the 1 token reward via practice mode every infinitive time you win an random computer opponent is the perfect solution if really dev team interesting to offer a great help for the users who interesting to collect a big amount of tokens very fast and easy!!

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Actually this happens to me a few days ago. My opponent did not move for about 10 minutes and I still lose. I actually talk to the player I am battling with and he said he end his turn already while my screen still shows that he is using Level Ball, so I think it is more about your Internet connection not the opponent you are fighting with.

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When on pvp you wait without do anything usually the same the game auto-surrender!! There is a time turn when you duel!! If you set a basic pokemon every 1 min the auto sarrender not activated usually!! Of course the best way you or opponent take for sure 1 token is to play normally but not attack if opponent not set any basic pokemon and you or he spend only 2-3 prices!! Same with the opponent!! Unfortunately PvP in normal conditions is to make a good deck and win and not to collect tokens lol and that's way i repeat and repeat again that dev team must seriously add the 1 token infinitive time reward like the one PvP expert have on practice mode too and the only difference is that on practice mode user is able to earn 1 token only if beat the opponent random computer player!!

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Hello, first of all I wanted to thank the game development team for the great content and opportunities they have given us for the past few months. But I would like to share my opinion and point out what I think that could be improved to make this game even better.

 

I understand that the 5 minute checkpoint is required to earn tokens was made to avoid exploiting donks but using the time as the checkpoint really doesn’t seem right and also now with the rule change people can’t lose before playing a turn, and that turn changes everything, they can now use the trainers from their hand to completely change the situation.

 

With the 5 minute checkpoint it’s actually counterproductive to use the top decks because they are made to hit big and fast. I’m afraid my opponent forfeits as soon as he sees my EX and then all the setup turns go to waste, so I actually make crappy decks and play worse. The other day, I was about to win the match but it didn’t reach 5 minutes, so I passed and because of that I ended up losing, it was absolutely terrible.

 

The 5 minute checkpoint is an obstacle that affects how people play and enjoy playing. The current system creates upset people who played fast matches, bored people delaying the matches and frustrated people with delayed matches. If you don’t change this, these people will just keep increasing.

 

Even if nothing else is changed, I would like to at least have an interface in the matches that tells us when our matches are valid to earn tokens, because that information can be really important sometimes

 

Thanks and regards.

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Well for sure my sister Nadia have right about that PvP not suppose to be played in order to collect tokens only!! Unfortunately so far for users who completely earn any reward for trainer challenge (stars reward,3 special prices,overall wins and 12/12 wins) the only way to still earn tokens without need to wait for login bonus every day or fan zone reward for every week is to play only and only pvp expert!! That's way someone who not intresting to collect tokens and play pvp simply to prove him skills usually surrender when he figure out that him opponent don't care for win or lose but only to find a way to collect even the one token!! To tell you the truth the most times also i play pvp only for tokens because as i explain only on expert pvp you earn tokens fast and infinitive times without need to wait for a special day reward!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

The real issue here is what is rewarded. We aren't rewarded for making a strong deck, playing fast, and being nice. We are rewarded for spending time, so it makes sense that people will act in such a way as to maximize the desired behaviour. This is simple operant conditioning action >>> reward, I play really fast my turns are often around 5 seconds and it drives me nuts when people have 2 cards in their hand and it takes them 60 seconds to press the next turn button when they are staring at 2 energies and they've already played one. What needs to change is which behaviour is rewarded, finishing a match should get you points, not length, problem solved.

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just wanted to say that if you've actually looked at real life tournaments, players often take much more than 2 minutes per turn, and I understand because a large part of this is due to the fact that you have to do everything manually, but nonetheless you will see in those matches, some players will play a team Plasma Ball and search their deck, pull out their Plasma pokemon, but continue to browse through their deck for another whole minute, main reason for this is that they want to check what cards they have prized and plan their moves from there. So you can't really say that they're playing slow intentionally, they're just doing more planning/strategizing than you.

 

the more annoying way to exploit the game's current 2 minute rule is the fact that a player can actually attach energy and then undo action and then rinse and repeat, this effectively keeps the timer reset and the player can potentially do this until the timer runs out. In those cases at least we can be sure they are intentionally trolling.

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CHRONOPHYSICIST, sorry but i don't see the point of your comparison between real life and the game. The game just automates the actions so much that everything becomes a lot more fast and easy.

 

I agree with STATICTENSHI. The issue is that what is rewarded is the length of the match. They will only reward us a token if we play 5 minutes or more, because that is probably the assumed time necessary to properly set up. But we have pokemon EX that award 2 prizes when knocked out, rare candy to skip an evolution stage, energy acceleration to allow us to attach multiple energy in a single turn, and we have powerful draw cards like Professor Juniper, Colress, Bicycle or Tropical Beach.

And all that allow us to get ahead several turns in the game without the need to spend too much time.

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my point is that even though the real life game tends to take more time in general than the online game, the player still has the right to take his time deciding his next plan of action. Just because you don't put much thought into your play doesn't mean your opponent has to as well.

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Yes, everyone has the right to take their time. (But there are some limits, I don't want to play against a person who is solving a rubik's cube in his mind.)

But also, everyone should have the right to a well paced match.

 

I think that there are some accelerations/mechanics that make the game faster and to compensate for that, people have to, sometimes, delay their turns or they won't receive anything because of the current 5 minute checkpoint that they must reach in order to be able to receive tokens.

 

So, I would suggest to use a energy attachment checkpoint or a draw checkpoint as the token awarding system instead of the current 5 minute checkpoint. Energy attachments and draws are things that can only be done once a turn but can also be accelerated. Those seem a lot more fair because they can tell the actual progress of the game more realistically.

 

For example, let's say we were to use a 4 energy attachment as checkpoint for awarding tokens. From the moment that the total amount of energy attached by both players reached 4 energies, both would be valid to receive at least 1 token after finishing the match

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I think checkpoints are not going to work too well, depending on the strategy, certain things might be best done near the beginning/end of the turn.

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I have an idea: instead of having each 25 minutes each to waist in total, why not make a 'fast game mode', next to the already existing ones, where you have only 10, or even 5 minutes so you have to make fast moves and games of over 20 minutes belong to the past.

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not sure if that would make them reward worthy anymore though, since you've already eliminated a fair bit of difficulty already by limiting the variety of decks playable

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I have an idea: instead of having each 25 minutes each to waist in total, why not make a 'fast game mode', next to the already existing ones, where you have only 10, or even 5 minutes so you have to make fast moves and games of over 20 minutes belong to the past.

 

 

This could be more polished, but I like this idea for a fast game. It could be used to improve your playing speed.

 

 

So, I would suggest to use a energy attachment checkpoint or a draw checkpoint as the token awarding system instead of the current 5 minute checkpoint. Energy attachments and draws are things that can only be done once a turn but can also be accelerated. Those seem a lot more fair because they can tell the actual progress of the game more realistically.

 

For example, let's say we were to use a 4 energy attachment as checkpoint for awarding tokens. From the moment that the total amount of energy attached by both players reached 4 energies, both would be valid to receive at least 1 token after finishing the match

 

 

I really like this idea. Using something else like the energy count to measure the match development seems to be the right move.

 

 

I think checkpoints are not going to work too well, depending on the strategy, certain things might be best done near the beginning/end of the turn.

 

 

What are you talking about?

By the way, we already have a "checkpoint" right now. The length of your match must reach at least 4:30 minutes to get you tokens.

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yea the current checkpoint is the 4:30 minute thing for tokens, what I believe Flaviux is suggesting is a energy attachment checkpoint and a draw checkpoint which I don't think will work too well.

 

wouldn't mind a fast game mode, but would not agree to that mode giving out rewards

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Two easy solutions to solve this.

 

1. Improve matchmaking. There would probably need to be more advertising to recruit new players. (like the things you see on the side of videos) And than they can try to improve the system so that people with similar NAT types and network capabilities get grouped together.

 

AND/OR

 

2. In PvP, have a system similar to trainer challenge. Based off of how "well" the player does during the match, that player gets more tokens. For a win the player gets some bonus tokens, and for losing the player gets a few tokens taken off. By doing this, players would not take a minute every turn to make a move. It could even have a different scoring system as well. You could earn points for knocking out enemy pokemon and using trainer cards effectively, and lose points for getting your pokemon knocked out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

unfortunately, not EVERYTHING is automated and faster. Because of the way that the control scheme is set up, some actions in the TCGO actually take LONGER than thy do in real life. i.e. when using Snorlax's Second Sight Poke-power to re-arrange the top three cards of either player's deck you have to click and drag he cards from the top window to a spot in the bottom one. This can be very taxing and unintentionally time consuming if your only input method is a built-in touchpad, and if you lift your finger from the touchpad or the right hand button before the card is perfectly in place, then said card snaps back into position and you have to spend more time doing it all over.

 

There are other things where the control set-up can cause unintended delays: the cursor device for some reason becomes unresponsive and there's no keyboard alternative for selecting moves; when searching through your deck, you have to wait for the face of the card to be both visible and selectable; then there's the lengthy and aggravating process of moving damage counters from one pokémon to another.

 

Finally, there's the things that falsely make it look like your opponent isn't doing anything. For instance, when you use an attack that doesn't do damage but instead has some other effect, then there's no announcement of it or even any listing of it in the game log; the play control simply switches over to the other player once the effect is over.

 

I could go on, but I believe my point has been made. Before we start discussing stiffer penalties for "slow plays", we should first eliminate the causes of ones that aren't the player's fault.

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.... I would suggest to use a energy attachment checkpoint or a draw checkpoint as the token awarding system instead of the current 5 minute checkpoint. Energy attachments and draws are things that can only be done once a turn but can also be accelerated. Those seem a lot more fair because they can tell the actual progress of the game more realistically...

 

This is a valid point, as the Trainer Challenge has no visible timer, but bases its score (and the tokens you get) in part on the draw and the energy placement. However, as some attacks don't require much energy (if any at all), I think that only the draw checkpoint should be used in PVP.

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