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A true energy-less deck


gilligan26204

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How many Trainers can a man fit into one deck? 59, technically, but I think 56 is pretty darn good. By way of disclaimer, I should point out that I am not really in tune with the "meta" of Pokemon, so if this deck has been done I apologize. This is most definitely Unlimited format.

 

The list:

 

Pokémon: (4)

 

4x Victini EX

 

Supporters: (4)

 

4 x Skyla

 

Items: (48)

 

4 x random receiver

4 x xtransceiver

4 x junk arm

2 x recycle

4 x catcher

4 x hypnotoxic laser

4 x dual ball

1 x town map

 

4 x super scoop up

4 x max potion

4 x life herb

 

2 x tool scrapper

2 x enhanced hammer

4 x crushing hammer

Stadiums: (4)

 

4 x Virbank gym

Pokémon tools: (1)

 

Victory piece

 

Energy: (0)

 

:)

 

 

The tactics here are simple: you need to draw Victory piece, Skyla or one of the receivers on your first attacking turn. Ideally you play second, so you can take the first opportunity to start laying on damage.

 

The town map is in there so that if your Victory piece is in the prizes (10% chance), you can choose the map with your first Skyla and hope that you can poison one pokemon for a KO! (long shot, but what else can you do?)

 

So far I've played 25 games on Expert PvP with this deck, with an 80% win rate. Of course, certain top decks could probably beat this one reliably, but I'm happy with its performance so far.

 

Of course Victini has low HP, and especially against water decks, if your opponent has a fast start with heavy hitters you can find that you simply don't do enough damage to win a war of attrition. So far my worst experience has been against a Kyurem deck, because if you can't get the laser+virbank combo, the three turns needed to KO Kyurem are much too long! All the heals and scoops should keep you from tapping out too quickly against non-water opponents, and I can usually find a junk arm to rescue my Victory piece from the discards when needed.

 

One other downside is that you often have to redraw your hand a lot, giving a big opening hand to your opponent. On any given draw, you have only a 40% chance of at least one of your Victini's coming up. (I once had 11 straight redraws, insane!)

 

All in all the deck depends on one card, sure, but I've found it works well for me so far. After you find Victini you have a 70% chance of getting Victory piece on your first turn, including using random receiver or skyla. This goes up to 84% when you count the xtransceivers, but of course that coin flip can be fickle.

 

 

 

Suggestions for any improvements? This deck really has no counter to Safeguard pokemon, but I'm not sure there's anything I can do about that.

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hmm well, i guess that could work... but may i suggest you take a look at some other old cards... there are a few that don't need energies to attack either, baby pokemon and yanmega prime for example.

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hmm well, i guess that could work... but may i suggest you take a look at some other old cards... there are a few that don't need energies to attack either, baby pokemon and yanmega prime for example.

 

Hmm, never looked at the baby pokemon before, that could be a fun concept, although none of them hit very hard. Victini can 2-shot most EX, which is a plus.

 

 

Lol what if your victory piece is prized or you get knocked outXD

 

Yep, if it's in your prizes (10% chance) you're pretty much out of the match unless you get lucky with a fast virbank+laser KO. As for getting knocked out, you can usually get your Victory piece back with a junk arm (receivers and skyla help with this).

 

 

Quadlax - Four snorlaxs - no energy is my favorite, however it lost a lot with the catcher nerf.

 

I hadn't seen this deck before, yes I guess it is very similar, except with Snorlax (as I understand it) you only attack with lasers? Here you aren't dependent on that, at least not usually.

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this has so many weakness compared to the energy-less Flygon deck

 

Suicune/Sigilyph/Plasma Steel Klinklang and friends just needs to sit there to win

1 tool scraapper

prized victory piece

Disconnect/Deafen

Spiritomb

 

 

there are a lot of better energy-less decks better than this.

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I'm not familiar with this Flygon deck, how is it constructed?

 

I will admit this deck has major problems against Safeguard, but honestly it hasn't come up for me that often in playing yet, and this deck is more for fun than intended to be a top contender against all opponents.

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I'm not familiar with this Flygon deck, how is it constructed?

 

I will admit this deck has major problems against Safeguard, but honestly it hasn't come up for me that often in playing yet, and this deck is more for fun than intended to be a top contender against all opponents.

 

Your problem is that Victini Ex is entirely dependent on a single card or automatically loses and even with that card Victini is a rather underwhelming Pokemon Ex in terms of both health and power. He needs some backup at the very least.

 

Flygon can use Sand Slammer(an ability) to deal 10 damage to every one of your opponents Pokemon. I assume you just focus on using that ability every turn and advantaging from Tropical Beach as you never need to attack.

 

I'd prefer to build a Chandelure-based version so if you have multiple you can cycle through them for 3 damage counters per Chandelure. Then you can finish with Victini or another energy-less Pokemon.

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here's the problem with only running 4 Pokemon, all of which being the exact same and being EXs

 

As OP as EXs are, you have to remember. If you knock out an EX, you take TWO prize cards instead of ONE. Only using EXs means the opponent can easily beat you...

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Your problem is that Victini Ex is entirely dependent on a single card or automatically loses and even with that card Victini is a rather underwhelming Pokemon Ex in terms of both health and power. He needs some backup at the very least.

 

Deck is dependent on Victory piece: yes

Is it (in my experience) easy to get back if it's been discarded? also yes. I dropped the 2 full heals for 2 recycles to give just a little bit extra potential in this area too. I agree it's a huge potential weakness, but in practice I haven't found it to be as devastating as it might seem on the surface.

 

As for Victini being underwhelming, I generally agree, and there are certainly many pokemon which give it trouble here, but the thing that this deck brings that other energy-less decks (that I'm familiar with, anyway) don't have is the immediate attack capability, and Victini is no slouch against EX's. That is where this deck shines, is when your opponent plays first and leads with an EX, and then you play second and (~78% of the time) deal him 100 damage, more if they're weak to fire or you play a laser.

 

I was thinking about dropping some hammers out to put in some pokegear 3.0, which (by my math, anyway) would get my "first turn Victory piece" success rate up past 81%, but those hammers are useful, and it seems to me the extra few percentage points are insignificant at that point.

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deck dependant on victory piece: yes

easy to get back after being discarded? heck no!! not with only 4 victini EX. what trainer would allow you to get back victory piece? even with 4 recycles(not even modified) its only 50/50, I would hardly call that easy when there are actual ways to get it back 100%.

 

I can't imagine the early attacking helps this deck too much:

- darkrai deck is going to send out sableye which will only get knocked out on the second attack, in which it would have time to tool scrap on turn 1 and junk hunt it back turn 2

- TDK is gonna play heaps of tool scrappers these days and kyurem is going to be the guy expected to take the active spot and this deck is famous for fast damage as well

- Blastoise might lose 1 EX at best before it gets on its feet, and then its just a bunch of secret swords to victory.

 

the only thing this deck can get the jump on is probably virizion genesect and even those decks I believe would lose less than 50% of the time.

 

If even decks in the modified format are not threatened by this, how is it going to stand up in unlimited where there's so much more variety.

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In addition to the recycles, I also have 4 junk arms to get Victory Piece back from the discards. And once victory piece is discarded, every Skyla and receiver gets you a junk arm to retrieve it. Not perfect, sure, but actually fairly reliable for at least a couple tries. Which, to be honest, is usually all you get, since 3 KO's and your opponent wins, and if you get KO'd twice, you're probably facing a deck that's beating you easily. This deck is kind of feast or famine that way. Tool scrapper is an obvious threat, but I rarely see more than one a game played against me.

 

 

 

As for modified vs unlimited, I actually find the variety in Unlimited to be a help to this deck, because you're not always facing Kyurem, Blastoise, or Darkrai. You get a chance to play decks that aren't so optimized for a fast start.

 

There are top decks, such as Blastoise, that unless they get a bad draw should beat this deck every time, but I'm not sure what I can do about that without getting rid of the other mechanics that make this deck "work". Nobody wants to build a terrible deck, and I know that this deck has large weaknesses. I definitely appreciate the input of players more experienced than myself, but I think ultimately this deck can't be top tier, which is ok.

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Suggestions for any improvements?

 

In addition to the recycles, I also have 4 junk arms to get Victory Piece back from the discards. And once victory piece is discarded, every Skyla and receiver gets you a junk arm to retrieve it. Not perfect, sure, but actually fairly reliable for at least a couple tries. Which, to be honest, is usually all you get, since 3 KO's and your opponent wins, and if you get KO'd twice, you're probably facing a deck that's beating you easily. This deck is kind of feast or famine that way. Tool scrapper is an obvious threat, but I rarely see more than one a game played against me.

 

 

 

As for modified vs unlimited, I actually find the variety in Unlimited to be a help to this deck, because you're not always facing Kyurem, Blastoise, or Darkrai. You get a chance to play decks that aren't so optimized for a fast start.

 

There are top decks, such as Blastoise, that unless they get a bad draw should beat this deck every time, but I'm not sure what I can do about that without getting rid of the other mechanics that make this deck "work". Nobody wants to build a terrible deck, and I know that this deck has large weaknesses. I definitely appreciate the input of players more experienced than myself, but I think ultimately this deck can't be top tier, which is ok.

 

Do you actually want advice? Unlimited is often less competitive than Modified; anyone could work that out, but it doesn't make your deck any better just because your opponents is weaker. If you appreciate the input so much why don't you actually accept it instead of getting defensive over everything?

 

If you want advice, take it. If not, don't ask for it then waste the time of well-meaning people.

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Ok, apparently my words didn't sound the same on the screen as they did in my head. I apologize for the offense, I definitely didn't mean any.

 

As for my reply to Chronophysicist, I was attempting to point out points I thought they had missed (the fact I use junk arm, and the fact that this deck should have more success in unlimited than in modified). I guess I read that post the first time as "you can't beat these decks" rather than "this is why you will lose to these decks," which I should have replied to better.

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Ok, apparently my words didn't sound the same on the screen as they did in my head. I apologize for the offense, I definitely didn't mean any.

 

As for my reply to Chronophysicist, I was attempting to point out points I thought they had missed (the fact I use junk arm, and the fact that this deck should have more success in unlimited than in modified). I guess I read that post the first time as "you can't beat these decks" rather than "this is why you will lose to these decks," which I should have replied to better.

 

It happens to everyone. My point was that people have suggested you depend less on a single Pokemon(could still be energy-less and there have been references to help with that) but you seem determined to use only Victini Ex. I should have been more precise.

 

I don't really like Victini to begin with because I don't see how it's any better than something like Bouffalant, who could easily trump Victini in a match-up. If you still want to use him that is your choice but I still don't see any good reason to ignore other energy-less Pokemon.

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My point was that people have suggested you depend less on a single Pokemon(could still be energy-less and there have been references to help with that) but you seem determined to use only Victini Ex.

 

Well, you have a point. Honestly, after looking up energyless Snorlax and Flygon/Dusknoir decks, I can't see how adding other pokemon to Victini would create a scenario where Victini was still useful. If I'm running other pokemon, I might as well play to their strengths and remove the weak link that Victini becomes. Maybe this deck should just remain built on the Victory Piece gimmick, and be what it is, nothing more.

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Well, you have a point. Honestly, after looking up energyless Snorlax and Flygon/Dusknoir decks, I can't see how adding other pokemon to Victini would create a scenario where Victini was still useful. If I'm running other pokemon, I might as well play to their strengths and remove the weak link that Victini becomes. Maybe this deck should just remain built on the Victory Piece gimmick, and be what it is, nothing more.

 

What about Yanmega Prime? Use him as your primary then have Victini to sub in against Pokemon Ex. I did say I preferred Bouffalant but Victini isn't bad if he's sitting in reserve to finish off Pokemon Ex. Being Fire type makes him brutal against Genesect Ex decks, for example. Victini can still be present, it's just too risky as a primary.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think it has a chance, but I know a "well known" energy-less deck from JWitzz. He posted a video showing his Quad Snorlax which runs 4 snorlax withe the block ability and no energy. It focuses on using hypnotoxic laser with virbank city gym causing any pokemon that gets blocked by snorlax. It's not that efficient but it can work against Darkrai,Big Basics, and other popular decks.

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I think it has a chance, but I know a "well known" energy-less deck from JWitzz. He posted a video showing his Quad Snorlax which runs 4 snorlax withe the block ability and no energy. It focuses on using hypnotoxic laser with virbank city gym causing any pokemon that gets blocked by snorlax. It's not that efficient but it can work against Darkrai,Big Basics, and other popular decks.

 

 

yes I think someone mentioned quadlax in the early parts of this thread. the quadlax, flygon/dusknoir both have better odds than the victini ex i would say, and they're actually legal for modified.

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Flygon deck I use is 4 eviolites, max potions, candies, Frozen City, and Dusknoir. But it will work best when opponents flops a bunch of pokemon to the bench before they know what you are doing. That rarely happens but when it does it is exciting. If you get the Flygons evolved early and the Frozen City down (and it stays down) it may be the funnest deck you can play. The only energies attached are for retreating obviously and sometimes none are used at all.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Gilligan! I'm a little late on this one, but this deck is just too nice not to comment on.

 

I think it's certainly a great example of a "feast or famine" deck; while as discussed it lacks any intricate pokemon-based support, I think it really makes up for it with one word: speed. Speed not only deriving from the fact that you can ostensibly start attacking on your first (or second, thanks, rule change) turn, but also from the fact that you're only running 4 of the same basic pokemon; hence no worries about not getting the right one (Mr. Mime, Exeggcute, or Tynamo starts, anyone?), and no shenanigans with evolutions (Yanmega Prime, who as mentioned is the one other serious contender for energyless attacker [besides Drifblim PLB, but meh] that actually attacks, not counting abilities like Flygon, who is pretty cool).

 

I know where you're coming with for somewhat silly designs like this, having run things like "Quad Zekrom" and "Quad Terrakion" online in the past. In the heyday of Darkrai and especially Mewtwo, things like Quad 'Rakion and Quad Safeguard Sigilyph were actually used in tournaments, of course... so it's not as if, in a specific enough metagame, the idea is completely farfetch'd. This is nowhere near the same, but it's definitely Unlimited-viable in its own right (P.S. Junk Arm and the fact that it's not an Ace Spec of course makes it all possible, and I think Chronophysicist would have approved had he spotted it in the deck list in the first post). There are a lot of wacky Unlimited decks you can make that make good use of Junk Arm, and I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying this pretty much over-powered old card for fun. People still use Pokemon Collector there, too.

 

And it's funny, because you wouldn't expect a deck like Quad Zekrom (actually 4 Outrage and 1 Zekrom EX, 'cause I had it lol) to do too well without any other support whatsoever. Yet I'm pretty sure I had around a 75-80+% win percentage on expert with it, just like you. I remember playing someone who (as I won) chastised that I should use support pokemon... I replied, "I know." :P

 

But it's the same deal: raw power and speed (I actually didn't use DCE but rather Ether/Pokedex, and other things like Frozen City, a somewhat common Outrage partner-in-crime), albeit still much slower than yours.

 

I do believe it was implied in your first post that you welcomed comments on tweaking this concept of Quad Victini EX to its own perfection, and I do have two small ones to make: 1), Might as well run two town maps, just in case both it and the Ace Spec are prized; 2) Thanks to the catcher nerf, you could consider dropping some or all of them (although it's really all or 3-4 in my opinion to make it worthwhile, thanks to the flip odds) in order to make room for a 2nd map, but at the same time, I'm not really sure you should drop the catchers at all. When they work, they still work, and since this deck is taking so many structural chances already, the cost-benefit ratio seems pretty good: taking out a benched Squirtle could even give you a shot at taking down Rain Dance (Blastoise; I'll never get over the ability's first name <3). But pretty clearly, adding any other pokemon, as you said, would disturb the balance, and indeed I can think of no other options. I know Zekrom works "better" with Eels, but there's something so... primal about running a deck without all those pesky backups and techs. (And no Tynamo starts!) Same thing with this deck, in my opinion; we could recommend a million "safer" deck ideas... but they wouldn't be this deck anymore.

 

Other than that, man, numbers don't lie, and 80% in unlimited is still terrific for such a fun concept. Reminds me of my Virbank-Whirlipede-Sableye deck: designed to OHKO Mewtwo (or Deoxys!) for 1 energy, and do kinda hit or "meh" versus everything else. I had similar win numbers with that, but, more importantly, I had a ton of fun (and dismayed/amazed comments from opponents!). I'd like the chance to play against this thing some day. :)

 

Edit/P.S.: Ok, one actual question, too: Why not run 3-4 Juniper to cycle through the secondary items like Laser/Virbank? The deck clearly works already, but I'm curious about how you think a "fast and furious" draw supporter might help. The ability to not worry about discarding Evos with Juniper is another reason I loved Quad Zekrom...

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