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A sad time for Pokemon TCG.


mgcurto

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Well, as much as I've tried to be true to the game and have fun, I had no choice but to look up a deck online, retire being creative and use a deck that everyone else is playing. I'm playing Mewtwo EX, Landorus EX and Terrakion.

 

The only other deck out there is the Darkrai EX deck. It seems that people care way too much about winning than creating a unique and diverse playing experience, where a variety of different Pokemon are used. You know, the way it was originally played a few years ago.

 

Now we are just seeing two or three different types of decks, full of EXs, and no originality. Cheesy quick play, where you're better off flipping a coin to determine who wins. I blame the Pokemon TCG company for making these broken EX cards which force people to use them.

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I've been playing cards games (yugioh,pokemon and magic) for more than 10 years and it always has been like this.It not a problem with the Pokémon game, it's like that with every card games. When I play, I play to win and I know most people do. If you want to use '' bad'' cards or try a new deck, you can always ask people in chat. I did and there's people looking for game without meta cards. As for '' broken cards'', Primes and Lv. X weren't less broken. It's only normal that people uses the same 4-5 decks when 99% of the cards are not playable. I don't blame TPC, they are a business and it's the only they can make money off cards. As for good pokémon deck you can also look up Blastoise/keldeo variants, lots of good Darkrai variants and the deck we are both using.(which also have lots of variant)

My 2 cents^^

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Im not sure how I feel about EXs. Yeah they are pretty ahead of the power curve but the EX Rule does kind of make it a risk reward decision....Though it is pretty lame when a guy plays Rayquaza EX and roars to get 4 Energy in the first turn then proceeds to totally stomp you before you have have a chance. Kind of feel they should enforce deck limits with that. Cause when your facing a Rayquaza with 4 Energy and you see two more EXs on the bench and its not even turn two its pretty discouraging.

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Interesting. Rayquaza decks always are annoying, so I make sure to put in a Flygon Evo line with rare candy (Actually works all the time)

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Yeah I usually build around themes. Im getting back into this after about 10 some odd years and the game has changed alot since I played back when I was in Boy Scouts. I will say im guilty of using a Darkrai EX but its in a specific deck and I only run one. I can be kind of a hipster when it comes to games like this. I usually say screw dominant strategies and just kind of do what I want you know? I win some I lose some but I always have fun. ^^

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Playing an uncreative EX deck against other EX decks isn't very interesting. But it's still more fun than getting utterly destroyed by them before you get anything up and running. I know from experience that using pretty much any deck that aims at utilizing interesting and more delicate (and slower) card synergies leads to a lot of games where I just sit there taking heavy hits before I can get anything up and running. Even in the Novice section.

 

One main cause for EX getting the chance to dominate so hard is the first turn rule imbalance, they attack so fast they get full advantage out of this (on top of all of their other good things). I can do fine with decks that include stage 2 attackers if I get to go first. But if I go second, well, that means their landorus or whatever gets to attacks TWICE before I can evolve anything. So that knocks out two of my creatures in many cases. This also causes me to miss an energy attachment because any energy I would attach during my first turn to one of those doomed early basics will most likely go down to the discard pile with it. Laser only adds to the likelihood of getting really heavily pressured by EX at the beginning.

 

We would see way more experimental decks if the player who goes first couldn't deal damage or inflict status condition on their first turn. They would still get to attach energy first, evolve sooner and play their hand as much as they like in all other ways before the opponent gets their fist move. This would also mean the winner of the flip gets to decide whether he goes first or not (and whether they go first or second varies depending on which player's suit their strategy better, pressure or setup). I don't see how this would take anything anyone would want to see in the game away, and it actually adds strategic and tactical depth to deck building and decision-making and lowers the luck factor. Actually, I'd go as far as to say that the EX rule (2 prizes) would be balanced if EX first turn advantage was reduced this way, and other cards would be way more viable.

 

Oh, and turn 2 Blastoise or turn 1 spear are a different issue altogether. It's not just early pressure, they simply reach the setup it takes to just win the game outright using their strongest attacks. This is something future sets just need to address with stronger fighting and grass types.

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Yeah. I notice Pokemon is a game of momentum. Its all about who can build up steam first. Personally I think EXs should have had a rule like Ace Spec, as in limiting the number you can have in a deck.

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I have around 30 decks, some are copies of the others with different techs, Also have like 5 "non" ex decks and a couple of unlimited decks just for fun.

 

I think there is a lack of knowdledge overall about the different decks you can make.

 

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Rather than blaming the game its probably you that aren't creative enough to make different cool decks with the ex avaibable atm.

 

The other question is... why would you make a deck you don't like playing with if you don't care about winning?

 

There are plenty of fun and kinda competitive decks that you can try out: Lugia Emboar, Lugia Blastoise, Klinklang + techs, Darkrai Zoroark, Rayquaza + fire techs, Garbodor variants, speed Darkrai / Darkrai combination with other pokemons (Darkrai + mewtwo / bouf, terrakion), Blastoise Black Kyurem, etc. And seen a lot of people get creative with even more "uncommon" decks, like articuno ex - lugia , PS snorlax based decks, victini ex based decks etc.

 

Just wrote a couple of decks that i could think of, but there are way more. It's true that you need EX for almost every "competitive" deck in todays format, but there are a LOT of possibilities , EX are now as common as any other rare card.

 

Myself I have fun trying to make a decks that im happy with that are capable of beating the metagame (all the common decks), so im always trying to play new fire techs (for klinklang) in the old common decks, etc etc. There is plenty of room for having fun in the game.

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Er... to the original poster (and to whoever else this applies to), you kind of lose all credibility about being sad about generic EX Pokemon and EX decks once you use them yourself...

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Well me personally im just kind of stating a opinion and having a nice discussion. Im not gonna be like "Burn all the EXs". I kind of like the risk/reward aspect of it I just think it could use a little more balancing is all.

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I can't be the only one who remembers a format dominated by Raindance and Haymaker decks, right? The game has always been dominated by a few top tier decks. This is nothing new.

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I have a super fun deck that I use IRL and online with little to no difference. It's a Zoroark/Cofagrigus deck (with a bit of modification from a few booster packs thrown in) and so far I've been able to knock out a number of EX's without using any myself.

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The Ace Spec-type of limit is a good idea, though. The two-prize drawback is not enough for EX Pokemon.

 

That's way too harsh since most EX are balanced. But what the most problematic EX have in common is that they are very disruptive, or part of very disruptive decks. And that starts already at T1, there needs to be a rule change in how the first turn works to act as a buffer against them to balance things for slower decks.

 

 

I can't be the only one who remembers a format dominated by Raindance and Haymaker decks, right? The game has always been dominated by a few top tier decks. This is nothing new.

 

So because the first version of the game was broken, there's no reason to fix it? Particularly when the fix would be so simple and only common sense. Removing first turn attack both tones down EX and helps evolutions set up significantly. There will still some decks that are better than others, the whole point of TCG is to build the ultimate deck, something better than the others, but that doesn't mean certain type of deck need to be favored by every single part of the game's rules.

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So because the first version of the game was broken, there's no reason to fix it? Particularly when the fix would be so simple and only common sense. Removing first turn attack both tones down EX and helps evolutions set up significantly. There will still some decks that are better than others, the whole point of TCG is to build the ultimate deck, something better than the others, but that doesn't mean certain type of deck need to be favored by every single part of the game's rules.

 

If the answer was that simple, it would've been done. Games like this will never be balanced to a point where every card or even half of the cards are viable, so why bother? Have you seen the amount of Yu-Gi-Oh cards that aren't viable even though they are "endgame" cards? Have you looked at Magic? I'm not trying to say that they shouldn't work on balance, but the real problem is not the EXs, nor the Pokémon in general.

What is the type of cards you use of most in a game? That's right, the ones added to the trainer tab. With about 12 energy and about as many pokemon in an average deck, you fill up the rest with trainers. THESE are the cards that make today's decks what they are. Because without Dark Patch, Dark Claw, Computer Search and Ultra Ball, Darkrai would probably not even be a blip on the radar.

That said, do I think they should change it? Maybe, as they're currently crossing a dangerous line by going for cards that actually just let you do damage without attacking (yes, I remember Digger Machine, but who ever really used that?). When cards like Hypnotoxic are going to be released more frequently, we're going to get decks like the Red decks in Magic: Lots of instant cast damage "trainers" to quickly secure a headstart.

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If the answer was that simple, it would've been done.

 

The silly thing about this is that we have no idea if some complex complications for game balance are reason nothing has been done. We don't know the company's stance on any of the issues raised by the players, we don't know if they listen to ideas or ever even consider alternatives that stem from customer feedback. They don't signal any interest in it, there's no forum for it, there are no announcements of this type, there's just no interaction of any kind.

 

Games like this will never be balanced to a point where every card or even half of the cards are viable, so why bother?

 

I don't understand the basis of this argument. If you can't make everything equally viable, you shouldn't even bother? Every new card that becomes playable changes the way the game is played. Just look at every set that comes out, all introduce cards that would even alone be enough to shake up the entire metagame. Now, imagine, if a card becomes viable from a previous set because of a rule change, rather than a new release. What's the difference? Even if it's just one card, it changes the meaning of other cards. And having more unique threats in the metagame is always better as it rewards exploring all options instead of taking the fast-setup combos that are spoonfed with the introduction of each set (and punishes uncreative deckbuilding).

 

I can give you one example that happens to me often. I play my Mamoswine deck. My starting hand is this: 1 Swinubi, 1 Victory Star Victini, 1 Mamoswine, 1 water energy, 1 double colorless energy, 1 rare candy, 1 switch. Looks like a great hand with everything I need, disregarding from the lack of supporter or search. I put Swinubi active and Victini on the bench. Coin flip. The opponent goes first. And, ta-dah, his active is a Landorus-EX. Everything else is irrelevant. He attaches a fighting energy and hammerhads 30 to Swinubi and 30 to Victini. Both have 30 HP left. I draw a Piloswine but can't evolve since it's my first turn. The game is over.

 

Alternatively, my opponent could have used any other quickly attacking EX (or a non-EX as long as it attack fast), particularly when coupled with Hypnotoxic Laser. The result is the same, the player who goes first knocks these weaklings out before I can retaliate. And even if I drew better and managed to bench my Swinubi after drawing an ultraball for another swinubi and using switch, I would till lose at least one of them. Or both, if the opponent gets a catcher (like he no doubt will). And energy attached to the Swinubi will be a wasted attachment as well since he won't survive the next turn.

 

But, if the player who goes first could only attach energy and use trainers on that turn instead of hammering me straight away, I would have got my Mamoswine out in time and it could have been the start of a nice game. You could say it all comes down to bad draws, but consider this: If I played a EX deck or anything that has a high chance of starting with high HP basics, I would have been entirely fine. This is a flaw in the rules.

 

Would this make Garbodor and Blastoise too strong? Maybe for with the current card pool, for the standard, straightforward cookie-cutter decks. But in that case you need to evolve gameplay and explore new options, which is good for a game so strategically stagnant as PTCG.

 

 

Have you seen the amount of Yu-Gi-Oh cards that aren't viable even though they are "endgame" cards? Have you looked at Magic?

 

Yu-Gi-Oh has been a well known mess for a while, but Magic is way better off. There isn't one type of deck that dominates all else in any format, and the design learns from past mistakes. There are various formats for different types of cards. They make bad decisions as well (like miracle atm), but those concerns are addressed in time and don't limit the type of gameplay to just a couple of options as strictly. They have their BDIF, everything does, but the disparity is smaller and options are still more interesting and varied than in Pokemon.

 

I'm not trying to say that they shouldn't work on balance, but the real problem is not the EXs, nor the Pokémon in general. What is the type of cards you use of most in a game? That's right, the ones added to the trainer tab. With about 12 energy and about as many pokemon in an average deck, you fill up the rest with trainers. THESE are the cards that make today's decks what they are. Because without Dark Patch, Dark Claw, Computer Search and Ultra Ball, Darkrai would probably not even be a blip on the radar.

 

I haven't said the cards are bad because they are EX. Fast-attacking EX-cards' interaction with the overly aggression-oriented rules is bad. And the trainers are a problem related to EX, anyway, since only decks utilizing EX attackers can utilize the full power of our trainer selection without crippingly compromising energy and pokemon count and variety.

 

That said, do I think they should change it? Maybe, as they're currently crossing a dangerous line by going for cards that actually just let you do damage without attacking (yes, I remember Digger Machine, but who ever really used that?). When cards like Hypnotoxic are going to be released more frequently, we're going to get decks like the Red decks in Magic: Lots of instant cast damage "trainers" to quickly secure a headstart.

 

Sure, HTL doesn't fit the game as it is now, but the idea behind it could potentially lead to new types of deck archetypes and card concepts. No need to limit the options by being that conservative. If using HTL ended your turn it would be just fine.

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Yeah, im honestly surprised Hypnotoxic wasn't made a Ace Spec. I will say its great to hang on to for kicking EXs in the shin. XD

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