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How do you beat dragon call decks and decks using a lot of EX cards?


Aoitori

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Hello.

 

I have been playing a few days and I am pretty happy with the deck that I have right now. So I have tried to move out from the Novice games to test the Expert challenge.

 

I have read people's advices and such, having about 15 Pokemon cards, 20+ ish Trainer/Supporter/Item cards and about 13-15 energy cards.

 

I use a water deck with Cure Body Jellicent and the Ice cream pokemon (with double freeze attack) and 1 on each of Reshiram, Zekrom, that Ice dragon the buffalo and the blue dragon with read head (Which I forgot name of)

 

I like my deck and I do fairly well normally actually but...

 

Like, I would almost always lose against someone with these, unless I am a little lucky:

 

-Dragon call decks (I get pwned fast)

 

-Any decent deck with Mewto EX (I win sometimes, but usually gets pwned by Mew2)

 

-Dark deck that has Sableye w junk hunt and Darkrai (I get pwned...)

 

-Decks full of EX pokemons (Sometimes I win but most times I get pwned)

 

And everyone in the expert games are running those. It kinda feels like I'm playing against the same person all the time. Cause the decks are the same and I can't win.

 

I wonder if there is any kind of strategy?

 

I don't like to use EX pokemons, because everyone are using them I get tired of seeing them everywhere. x.x

 

 

 

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This is pretty much the same situation in real life too. First Battle Road of the season I went to, we played 5 rounds, and 3 of the 5 I went up against were Eels (the other two were one Darkrai, and one novice player). That's just how it is, people are going to see the most popular decks and then copy them, because they're popular for a reason.

 

Unfortunately, it's difficult to beat them without joining them. Effective "rogue" decks are very hard to build, because so many people have tried it already that almost all of the good ideas have already been tested. There are a few popular decks without EXes, though. Dragon Call as you mentioned already, Empoleon, Eels (it usually uses at least a couple EXes, but can get by without them), Accelgor (though it really benefits from Mew EX), and mill decks like Durant or Aggron come to mind.

 

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As i said earlier in several different forums,Ex cards are going to be around for some time.And thats going to be along time.Trainers are going to haft adapt or move on to a different style.Oh well good luck with it.Later.

 

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As i said earlier in several different ********* cards are going to be around for some time.And thats going to be along time.Trainers are going to haft adapt or move on to a different style.Oh well good luck with it.Later.

 

 

I know that people use the best cards and variation of the same decks because they want to win. And it is alright.

 

But it does get boring. Not to mention lack of creativity... But that is their problem.

 

I didn't make a thread to complain. I am still quite so unexperienced so I am looking for advices and strategies against those decks without 'joining' and just go with the flow. Like, what to look out for and stuff. What is a good counter and stuff...

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, if you're seeing the same cards all the time, you might be able to specifically counter those cards.

 

 

 

Exs, for instance - the Dragon's Exalted expansion has two cards seemed designed to help against Exs, the Uncommon Bouffalant and the Rare Sigilyph. Sigilyph's power stops it taking any damage from them, and though it takes three turns to set up it can attack for a decent amount too. Bouffalant is even more splashable, and can deal 120 to an Ex once set up - but unless you have Double Colourless Energy, that's going to take a while.

 

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There's really no easy counter, though. Once they get going, they're tough to stop, so your best chance is to set up faster. That's why Garchomp and Empoleon can compete with them - they both only need one energy to attack, while most EXes need two or three, and both decks have abilities that help you draw the cards you need more quickly.

 

It's just how the game is at the expert level. Until you're experienced enough that you don't need advice, it's almost impossible to succeed with anything nonstandard.

 

 

Well, if you're seeing the same cards all the time, you might be able to specifically counter those cards.

 

Exs, for instance - the Dragon's Exalted expansion has two cards seemed designed to help against Exs, the Uncommon Bouffalant and the Rare Sigilyph. Sigilyph's power stops it taking any damage from them, and though it takes three turns to set up it can attack for a decent amount too. Bouffalant is even more splashable, and can deal 120 to an Ex once set up - but unless you have Double Colourless Energy, that's going to take a while.

 

 

Trouble is, every competent EX player has something to deal with Sigilyph, and most of them will have Catchers to play around it in the meantime. Bouffalant can hit them hard, sure, but it can only 2HKO most of them while getting 2HKO'd itself a lot of the time, so it's not nearly enough on its own.

 

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There's really no easy counter, though. Once they get going, they're tough to stop, so your best chance is to set up faster. That's why Garchomp and Empoleon can compete with them - they both only need one energy to attack, while most EXes need two or three, and both decks have abilities that help you draw the cards you need more quickly.

 

It's just how the game is at the expert level. Until you're experienced enough that you don't need advice, it's almost impossible to succeed with anything nonstandard.

 

 

Well, if you're seeing the same cards all the time, you might be able to specifically counter those cards.

 

Exs, for instance - the Dragon's Exalted expansion has two cards seemed designed to help against Exs, the Uncommon Bouffalant and the Rare Sigilyph. Sigilyph's power stops it taking any damage from them, and though it takes three turns to set up it can attack for a decent amount too. Bouffalant is even more splashable, and can deal 120 to an Ex once set up - but unless you have Double Colourless Energy, that's going to take a while.

 

 

Trouble is, every competent EX player has something to deal with Sigilyph, and most of them will have Catchers to play around it in the meantime. Bouffalant can hit them hard, sure, but it can only 2HKO most of them while getting 2HKO'd itself a lot of the time, so it's not nearly enough on its own.

 

But can we agree that if you 2HKO a bouff and it 2HKO an EX, the bouff wins from a prize point of view :D

 

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Of course. But that still leaves you with 4 more prizes you have to get, and if you focus too much on Bouffalant then you hurt your ability to handle non-EXes. Like I said, it helps, but it's not nearly enough on its own.

 

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If you look at the ratio of how people are building their decks around the ex's.Then its not hard to deal with the ex's.But,i do admit that the ratio is high.Also,the new ex cards have added not only to the power of an existing deck type but also the strategy that goes with it hand in hand.But,that being said.People arent going to change their decks based on what inviduals want.They have the right to run their decks as they see fit;as do you,I or anyone else has the same right.Ive seen some really interesting deck combinations using the new cards.Now they may not always work with their current level of calibration.But,that doesnt mean that in time given getting more cards from boosters and tins that the decks wont improve.I hope they do improve to make an even greater challenge.And given that trading may be back sometime in the near future will give these trainers access to the cards they need or want for the decks.Now just because you dont see them as being original in your eyes doesnt mean that theyre not in the eyes of the beholder.In other words they may just be using these current decks to be able to compete with the other power decks currently running.Given time these trainers might come up with several different possiblities.I myself have almost 30 different decks and types.Given time they may have what they need in the future.And all things come to those who are patient.And all trainers should expect the unexpected at all times and be prepared.Ive always made this point.And the decks should be calibrated towards that end,expecting anything.And being prepared for any given situation.Hence the decks your now currently seeing from everyone..Continued below.

 

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Now i know these are things alot of the current players know as well as the older players I know.But the newer players dont understand this quite yet.Given time theyll catch on.I now am of the idea after talking with several different players in the chat room;that the idea of rotation and the discussions of the ex should just be dropped till the formatts for this game are put into place by the Profs and the programmers.Also let the new players have a chance to catch up and get a good foot hold with their decks and their collections so everyone can have a fun time in this game.And thats the real bottom line purpose of this game isnt it.I know alot of you dont like this idea and personally thats your descission to make not mine.So to all i say this.Learn to co-exist with the idea that the ex cards are around for along time to come and people will use whatever cards they can at their reach to build their best decks.So have fun and stay strong mentally and such and have a good day all.

 

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When 1 card determined a entire metagame that is a sign of a VERY poor card design

 

 

 

It is why more competative CCG like MTG have better balance, such as not being able to attack the first turn you play a monster

 

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Right now, the competitive metagame is dominated by four or five major decks, depending on how you distinguish them. Any given rotation of M:tG is typically dominated by four or five major decks. There are reasons it's more popular, but that isn't one of them.

 

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "1 card." Presumably you're talking about Mewtwo, but there are plenty of decks that work fine without it, and even decks that use it typically run it as a secondary attacker or tech rather than the primary focus.

 

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When 1 card determined a entire metagame that is a sign of a VERY poor card design

 

 

 

It is why more competative CCG like MTG have better balance, such as not being able to attack the first turn you play a monster

 

 

The main reason MtG is more popula than pokemon is that pokemon cards are aimed at a younger audience, whereas MtG is aimed at teens/adults with a lot more disposable income.

 

 

 

Any TCG that has had any sort of time to develop will be determined by around 3 to 5 key decks/cards. Sure, some cads are overpowered (Darkrai and Mewtwo being the main ones), but even then there's deck options that don't use either (Fluffychomp, Empoleon variants, Garbadour/Terrakion etc).

 

 

 

Also, there's only 6 sets that are legal at the moment. We're barely halfway through a format, there's going to be a lot of cards coming that'll give more diversity (Blastoise/ArticunoEX, Charizard/Celebi, Accelgor/Stoutland).

 

 

 

tl;dr, good luck finding a TCG that's not got only a few power cards/decks

 

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A strategy I'm trying revolves around bronzong's abulity (next destinies) to prevent max potion while I use bench hitters like zebrastrika to finish them off. Granted, it needs work (I don't have all the cards for it), but it at least blocks some of the key hit and run engines that make those decks so difficult to deal with.

 

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A strategy I'm trying revolves around bronzong's abulity (next destinies) to prevent max potion while I use bench hitters like zebrastrika to finish them off. Granted, it needs work (I don't have all the cards for it), but it at least blocks some of the key hit and run engines that make those decks so difficult to deal with.

 

 

Great idea. I think I wanna try something out with that. Full Heals have turned the tide on me a few times....

 

I take the presense of power decks as a challenge for coming up with ways to defeat them. I like to go against the trends. ; )

 

My biggest pest card right now are pokemon catchers. Is there any defence against those?

 

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Run an item lock strategy like Gothitelle, or avoid leaving vulnerable targets on your bench. If you have any high-retreat cards, make sure to run Switch or some other means of getting them out of the active position. But make sure you have some way of dealing with it, because most people run 4 and it's going to be around for about another year (assuming rotation is implemented by then and it isn't reprinted).

 

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Run an item lock strategy like Gothitelle, or avoid leaving vulnerable targets on your bench. If you have any high-retreat cards, make sure to run Switch or some other means of getting them out of the active position. But make sure you have some way of dealing with it, because most people run 4 and it's going to be around for about another year (assuming rotation is implemented by then and it isn't reprinted).

 

 

Good suggestion... I just wish that her ability didn't rely on her being active. : /

 

Hmmm.. maybe a Gardevoir/Gothitelle combo. Gardevoir could up the Gothitelle damage significantly.

 

Yeah, I've started playing more carefully with the amount of cards on bench... too often I'll wind up with unfortunate switches taking out pokemon earlier than I wish.

 

 

 

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Yeah switches are the key to getting around gust of wind- er pokemon catcher. It doesn't prevent one hit ko's, but it prevents being stuck with a high retreat active pokemon. Zebrastrika also has an attack that prevents them from using items for a turn.

 

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When 1 card determined a entire metagame that is a sign of a VERY poor card design

 

 

 

It is why more competative CCG like MTG have better balance, such as not being able to attack the first turn you play a monster

 

 

Don't worry, it's more annoying to face a lot of Tarmogoyfs then of some Mewtwo.

 

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When 1 card determined a entire metagame that is a sign of a VERY poor card design

 

 

 

It is why more competative CCG like MTG have better balance, such as not being able to attack the first turn you play a monster

 

 

Don't worry, it's more annoying to face a lot of Tarmogoyfs then of some Mewtwo.

 

 

 

 

At least Tarmogyf can be Terrored.

 

 

 

Of course, Terror would be totally broken as a Pokémon card...

 

Terror, Trainer

 

Choose a Pokémon in play that isn't Dark or Metal. That Pokémon is knocked out.

 

 

 

It is why more competative CCG like MTG have better balance, such as not being able to attack the first turn you play a monster

 

 

 

The summoning sickness rule in magic is basically the same as the being unable to evolve first turn rule in Pokémon, though.

 

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Have you heard the phrase, "If you can't beat em, join em"?

 

Unfortunately you will have an incredibly hard time dealing with the "Top" decks because EX pokemon have become

 

staples to deck building.

 

However a small few decks can suffiently give top decks a run for their money.

 

-Garbador DRX

 

 

-Garchomp DRX [Mach cut]

 

 

-Terrakion NVI paired with EXP Share or Energy Switch

 

 

-Eelktrik variants more Zekrom orianted

 

 

-Sableye/ Durant NVI

 

 

-Sableye/Agron

 

 

-Empoleon DRE

 

 

-Accelgor DRE

 

 

-Accelgor/Empoleon or Gothitelle EP

 

 

 

Im sure there is more however these are some top canidates to stay on par with the best of the best.

 

 

 

~Regards, Tekhno.

 

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Hello.

 

I have been playing a few days and I am pretty happy with the deck that I have right now. So I have tried to move out from the Novice games to test the Expert challenge.

 

I have read people's advices and such, having about 15 Pokemon cards, 20+ ish Trainer/Supporter/Item cards and about 13-15 energy cards.

 

I use a water deck with Cure Body Jellicent and the Ice cream pokemon (with double freeze attack) and 1 on each of Reshiram, Zekrom, that Ice dragon the buffalo and the blue dragon with read head (Which I forgot name of)

 

I like my deck and I do fairly well normally actually but...

 

Like, I would almost always lose against someone with these, unless I am a little lucky:

 

-Dragon call decks (I get pwned fast)

 

-Any decent deck with Mewto EX (I win sometimes, but usually gets pwned by Mew2)

 

-Dark deck that has Sableye w junk hunt and Darkrai (I get pwned...)

 

-Decks full of EX pokemons (Sometimes I win but most times I get pwned)

 

And everyone in the expert games are running those. It kinda feels like I'm playing against the same person all the time. Cause the decks are the same and I can't win.

 

I wonder if there is any kind of strategy?

 

I don't like to use EX pokemons, because everyone are using them I get tired of seeing them everywhere. x.x

 

 

 

 

Same feeling there with you. Well, you could use Sigilyph to counter EX but if you beg the differ, you could try locking their ability and item with Gothielle and Garbodor

 

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That requires you to play psychic energy unless you want to use multiple energy types in a deck that does not support that type.

 

 

 

But what about people who dont use psychic in their deck? Buffolant is not a reliable counter

 

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That requires you to play psychic energy unless you want to use multiple energy types in a deck that does not support that type.

 

 

 

But what about people who dont use psychic in their deck? Buffolant is not a reliable counter

 

Well, if your deck has Fire, Grass, or Dark already, then you can just add in some Blends, so that covers half the types (including Psychic itself). Otherwise, you can use Pokémon that counter the ones you have the most trouble with, e.g. Terrakion for Darkrai.

 

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It's actually quite simple really.... Since I've come across the same issues as well not just online but IRL, you really just need to analyze the "meta"(what the majority of people play) and develop a plan of attack. Most people simply want to follow a flow of consistancy and are more worried about winning consistantly than having fun because to them, winning=fun. One of the trainers in my real life league has developed a deck that can attack the meta regardless of what deck his opponent is playing. Since most decks revolve around either playing certain EX pokemon and/or ones with certain pokemon powers/abilities, we've discovered that playing with garbordor from dragons exalted is typically a plan that most decks arent prepared to deal with. Sure a lot of competitive lists run tool scrapper to combat that, but usually they only have one or two in their deck tops. The main reason that this is the case is because this particular strategy isn't very prevalent right now. This is something that could be very easily exploited, most of your eel based/mewtwo based decks simply have a difficult time coming back from this. My suggestion to you is to create a deck that has 4/4 garbordor with rescue scarf and some number, i suggest at least 3 sigilyph(this pokemon allows you to stabilize in the event garbordor is knocked out from an EX pokemon) Anyways, happy hunting and best of luck to you!

 

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