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Concede Restrictions


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07 March 2019 - 03:42 PM

#1

OfficerShane

    Junior Trainer

  • OfficerShane

I know I am not the only one with gripes about people quitting matches in the first turn or two, or running auto quit macros. Also, I have had an ongoing complaint because I have had two fire type challenges up where I am to KO 12/12 opponent Pokemon, and cannot finish the challenge (for close to a week now) because I can never get anyone to stay long enough for a KO (I think I have 4/12 on one challenge) UNLESS they have a deck full of Magikarp/Wailord Tag Teams, or Gyrados/Kingdra EX/GX decks that pulverize any fire deck. 

 

I believe that this idea would reduce the number of concede bots out there, as it would be less beneficial (I have seen internet posts where they boast that conceding nets 100-200+ VS points per hour), and even if they make a workaround with their macro bots, it will give real players time to at least score a point or two towards completing their challenges, and not spoil the fun of the game for your actual human players. I honestly feel the current setup with lack of ability to stop the conceders, seems to cater to the conceders and bots, and not the actual human players trying to accomplish in game tasks... Unintentionally I understand, but it sort of does none-the-less.

I am also aware that there are fewer instances of this in the "Theme" Versus game. Yet, if I have spent (literally) thousands of dollars on Pokemon cards and memorabilia for my kids, and redeemed codes to claim in game cards, packs, and prizes, then spent countless hours earning prizes in game to win more cards/decks, then spent even more hours building and customizing decks to play competitively against other competitors... Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, that are your paying customers, looking to contribute something to the community and gameplay experience here, be limited to only pre-designed decks for actual competitive play against other players? 

 

Just a further noting of my awareness, I have been told that you can drop the Versus Challenges to accept new Trainer Challenges, and that is fine. However, the trainer challenges offer less XP for level growth, and less valuable rewards (I.E. 1XP and 25P Tokens compared to 3XP and a Booster pack, or 200P Tokens in shop -- which is one third to one eighth the reward, or so it has seemed to me thus far). I do not feel that as a real human player, who wants to progress in the game, and earn better rewards, I should be limited to lesser rewards and growth, because of what seems to be a majority of "players" (I would go as far as to assume 8-9 of 10 matches in Versus mode) are all conceding or concede bots clogging up the Versus matches. 

Please understand, although it is in a way, this is not just a complaint, but a perspective that needs to be evaluated on the side of the game developers. Right now, it seems, that the biggest reward is going to those exploiting the system while ruining competitive play for others. 

 

I have envisioned a solution to the benefit of all! 

 

Impose a concede restriction in game...

*Time Limits on Concede becoming available -- one cannot concede within the first 5 minutes of play. Have the option darked out and unclickable.
 

*Turn Limits on Concede becoming available -- one cannot concede within the first 5 full turns of the game, not counting Setup/Mulligans. The option remains unclickable.

*Limit number of consecutive Concedes -- have a background counter tracking their concedes. If they conceded the last two games, the option is blocked for a full game and they cannot concede again until they play through a game until an actual victory/defeat message is awarded. 

Once the conditions are all met you can concede, however this would, in theory, reduce the profitability of "concede play" and encourage actual players to play, while giving other players a chance to score points against the "always concede" players/bots. 

I would love to hear thoughts and opinions on this concept... 

(sorry I was so wordy but many abbreviations and fraction numbers get censored for some reason)


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07 March 2019 - 04:32 PM

#2

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

I agree that conceding can ruin a fun game, especially if you've got a good setup, and they don't.  But that's exactly why they cannot STOP concessions altogether.  They can't "gray out" the Concede button unless they change the rules for the physical game.  Players can concede at any point, and that's totally legal and legit.  Maybe they have to quit unexpectedly because of something happening at home?  Who's to say when and where it's okay?  Maybe their internet connection is spotty, and they thought it would last through a game.
 
Don't misunderstand.  I agree that way too many bow out unfairly, or too early.  It can be frustrating.  Problem is, these players don't care, and you or I aren't going to change that.  The anonymous, video game mentality is a completely different mindset than competitive real-life games.
 
It's just recently come to light (here in the forums) that "bots" are a problem.  That's real, and should be addressed by the Staff.
 
Since it is just a video game, if they're going to do anything, I think they should penalize players who repeatedly concede (whether lack of sportsmanship, or with a bot).  But they can't MAKE someone sit there for several rounds against their will.  Instead, they should lose VS points.  Plain and simple, if you think you're going to keep conceding to gain advantage, you would lose 10 VS points when it's a habit.  That doesn't hurt anyone, and would curtail some of the foolishness.  This doesn't seem to be an issue in Events (tournaments), since none of us care why they quit.  We won, and that's all that matters.

 

P.S.  That said, with the improvements and bugs fixes this game desperately needs, do we really want them concentrating on a new string of code about VS Points and conceding?


Edited by RobRatt, 07 March 2019 - 10:28 PM.

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07 March 2019 - 08:34 PM

#3

Lalamon

    Trainer

  • Lalamon

I think never found a bot.

 

Being realistic is difficult the devs do a lot of big changes to game. I think they can remove the KO challenge before  restrain conceding. 

 

RobRatt said all very good. And finally if opponent concede you get your ladder points and move onward. A win is a win.


Pokemommy trainer, better than Ash  :lol:

Sylveon the best https://www.pokemon.com/us/pokedex/sylveon

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07 March 2019 - 08:55 PM

#4

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Even if the game somehow forbid conceding or if a punishment were to be established for conceding, the people who really just want out will simply alt+F4, and there's nothing you can do to stop it. It's just not gonna happen no matter how many threads are made about the subject.

 

This could also become an incentive for people to just alt+tab and just pass turns until they've met whatever conditions are necessary for conceding without punishment (or passing turns until they lose if the conditions are ultra strict), and I doubt that's the kind of game you'd like to have (unless the idea of playing against trainers that are worse than the incompetent AI sounds interesting to you). In the worst case scenario, we could end up plagued by ragestallers. Salty players that would have otherwise conceded might chose to instead waste your time out of spite (some people already do this, but it could be worse).

 

Just let people concede whenever they want. If that's how they really feel, they weren't going to give you a real game anyways. I would argue that they're doing you a favor for letting you end the game early and move on to a more challenging/fun match with someone who actually wants to play.


Edited by Sakura150612, 07 March 2019 - 11:11 PM.

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07 March 2019 - 10:27 PM

#5

Loof6

    Veteran Trainer

  • Loof6

Dude, be happy when your opponent gives up. YOU WON! Boom, next game.


  • 0

08 March 2019 - 08:32 PM

#6

Jigglypuffan

    Elite Trainer

  • Jigglypuffan

I know I am not the only one with gripes about people quitting matches in the first turn or two, or running auto quit macros. Also, I have had an ongoing complaint because I have had two fire type challenges up where I am to KO 12/12 opponent Pokemon, and cannot finish the challenge (for close to a week now) because I can never get anyone to stay long enough for a KO (I think I have 4/12 on one challenge) UNLESS they have a deck full of Magikarp/Wailord Tag Teams, or Gyrados/Kingdra EX/GX decks that pulverize any fire deck. 

 

I believe that this idea would reduce the number of concede bots out there, as it would be less beneficial (I have seen internet posts where they boast that conceding nets 100-200+ VS points per hour), and even if they make a workaround with their macro bots, it will give real players time to at least score a point or two towards completing their challenges, and not spoil the fun of the game for your actual human players. I honestly feel the current setup with lack of ability to stop the conceders, seems to cater to the conceders and bots, and not the actual human players trying to accomplish in game tasks... Unintentionally I understand, but it sort of does none-the-less.

I am also aware that there are fewer instances of this in the "Theme" Versus game. Yet, if I have spent (literally) thousands of dollars on Pokemon cards and memorabilia for my kids, and redeemed codes to claim in game cards, packs, and prizes, then spent countless hours earning prizes in game to win more cards/decks, then spent even more hours building and customizing decks to play competitively against other competitors... Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, that are your paying customers, looking to contribute something to the community and gameplay experience here, be limited to only pre-designed decks for actual competitive play against other players? 

 

Just a further noting of my awareness, I have been told that you can drop the Versus Challenges to accept new Trainer Challenges, and that is fine. However, the trainer challenges offer less XP for level growth, and less valuable rewards (I.E. 1XP and 25P Tokens compared to 3XP and a Booster pack, or 200P Tokens in shop -- which is one third to one eighth the reward, or so it has seemed to me thus far). I do not feel that as a real human player, who wants to progress in the game, and earn better rewards, I should be limited to lesser rewards and growth, because of what seems to be a majority of "players" (I would go as far as to assume 8-9 of 10 matches in Versus mode) are all conceding or concede bots clogging up the Versus matches. 

Please understand, although it is in a way, this is not just a complaint, but a perspective that needs to be evaluated on the side of the game developers. Right now, it seems, that the biggest reward is going to those exploiting the system while ruining competitive play for others. 

 

I have envisioned a solution to the benefit of all! 

 

Impose a concede restriction in game...

*Time Limits on Concede becoming available -- one cannot concede within the first 5 minutes of play. Have the option darked out and unclickable.
 

*Turn Limits on Concede becoming available -- one cannot concede within the first 5 full turns of the game, not counting Setup/Mulligans. The option remains unclickable.

*Limit number of consecutive Concedes -- have a background counter tracking their concedes. If they conceded the last two games, the option is blocked for a full game and they cannot concede again until they play through a game until an actual victory/defeat message is awarded. 

Once the conditions are all met you can concede, however this would, in theory, reduce the profitability of "concede play" and encourage actual players to play, while giving other players a chance to score points against the "always concede" players/bots. 

I would love to hear thoughts and opinions on this concept... 

(sorry I was so wordy but many abbreviations and fraction numbers get censored for some reason)

 

they can't do much.. i can just close my game and open it back to get the game done (forfeit) .


  • 0

14 March 2019 - 12:21 AM

#7

Spr1nter

    Novice Trainer

  • Spr1nter

I love how people think that conceding is an issue.

 

It isn't.

 

It's a symptom of the game of where it is.

 

The game is so incredibly unbalanced that there's literally no point in playing when a player is ALLOWED to load up multiple energies in one turn or ALLOWED to use abilities regardless of status conditions or ALLOWED to literally get whatever card they need without any restrictions.

 

The way this game is, the 'luck' factor is gone. The cards have dumbed down the game so much that people don't even need to think about what they need to do.

 

I think people SHOULD concede more to frustrate players. The game itself has frustrated A LOT of players that actually want a fair match between decks. Not this two turn 100 dmg garbage that this game has become.

 

Abilities are left unchecked. Supporter cards are unable to be prevented. The fact that you can get away with using HIGH HP pokemon (talking specifically about GX pokemon, but some non-GX pokemon are just as bad) with low energy cost is so ridiculous.

 

So please, concede more and bring awareness that this game is broken.


Edited by Spr1nter, 14 March 2019 - 12:22 AM.

  • -1

14 March 2019 - 06:03 PM

#8

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

snip

Bro.

You keep saying you're going; that you're fed up with the game and you're going to play something else.

So why are you still posting the same thing over and over again?  We've all heard your points by now; repeating them isn't doing anything.  Can you just leave this well enough alone?


Edited by SuperStone, 14 March 2019 - 06:03 PM.

The truth waits for no one.  That which you refuse to see, TPCi, slips past you.  The chat function was never your problem, yet through your blindness, you have made it one.

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14 March 2019 - 06:24 PM

#9

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Bro.

You keep saying you're going; that you're fed up with the game and you're going to play something else.

So why are you still posting the same thing over and over again?  We've all heard your points by now; repeating them isn't doing anything.  Can you just leave this well enough alone?

He's trying to be the new Xensor, but no one will ever be able to fill that gap. At least Xensor was funny...


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16 March 2019 - 10:13 AM

#10

Spr1nter

    Novice Trainer

  • Spr1nter


He's trying to be the new Xensor, but no one will ever be able to fill that gap. At least Xensor was funny...


I have no clue who Xensor is, so no, I am definitely not "trying" to be him/her.



And for the record, i have stopped playing entirely since I made these posts. Honestly, the more awareness of the game balance issues, the more people can do something about it.



People are so blinded by quick wins and shiny cards that they have allowed this ******** of a game format to exist. I admit, I was one of these people but my frustrations are not for no reason. The wins i had countered those imbalanced cards/decks. But in no way did that mean that the game was fun. It wasn't.



This game has brought out an ugly side to me and I recognize it. But at the same time, this game has clearly lost its way.
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16 March 2019 - 01:01 PM

#11

harshu

    Elite Trainer

  • harshu

I have no clue who Xensor is, so no, I am definitely not "trying" to be him/her.

And for the record, i have stopped playing entirely since I made these posts. Honestly, the more awareness of the game balance issues, the more people can do something about it.

People are so blinded by quick wins and shiny cards that they have allowed this ******** of a game format to exist. I admit, I was one of these people but my frustrations are not for no reason. The wins i had countered those imbalanced cards/decks. But in no way did that mean that the game was fun. It wasn't.

This game has brought out an ugly side to me and I recognize it. But at the same time, this game has clearly lost its way.

There are 2 ways to see it -

1. All the good cards are balanced among themselves but overpowered over old cards. This is an imbalance and in near future people might start to question it when the inflation rises alot in the terms of numbers being produced.

2. That most of the cards are useless and only a few are meant to be competitive. It is a way of asking people to buy more and more boosters to get 'those' usable cards to play competitively, otherwise all you will get is trashed.


Overall if you see the game isn't imbalanced because every competitive card has equal imbalance with respect to trash cards. And there are more than a few imbalanced cards.

I have read a few of your posts which say that the old game was a bit more balanced. Since those numbers were low. Power creep is an issue and most of the player base agrees to it. But the thing is, most of player base is in standard format, so everything that has rotated is useless to them. So in terms of standard play, the game is very balanced. If a tag-team gx gets 240 hp and great knockouts, then there isn't just 1 tag-team gx. People have a choice of cards from which they want to play (so the game is balanced in that sense, but not balanced when you compare old and new cards).

On top they give out 3 prize cards rather than just a single one. So it takes only 2 knock outs while a normal deck needs 6 knock outs !

However, there is simply nothing that can be done to address it. Since kids like big numbers and on the front note every kid would see that 300 HP pokemon would be better than a 90 HP pokemon. That boosts their sales.

So your posting everywhere that the game is imbalanced nowadays doesn't improve the situation since people will only start seeing you as a troll.

It would be better if you would enjoy the game as it is, or rather than shouting that the game has a problem, start thinking about how one can solve it. Start giving more solutions to not hurt the company as well as creating more balanced and creative cards that suit you. That way everyone is in a win-win situation and no one would see you as a troll, rather would respect you for your contribution for making this game more enjoyable.

Stop complaining, start solving ;) . It will save you time and from others' ****** and people would love to suggest their thoughts as well :)


Edited by harshu, 16 March 2019 - 01:02 PM.

If you need any Deck help just visit this thread - The Best Decks in TCG - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/28694-the-best-decks-in-tcg/
If you are new, and looking for a Beginner's Guide, click the following topic, to get reach to a Helpful Guide. - New Player Guide - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/31931-new-player-guide/
Click the names, and you can reach those Topics :)

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16 March 2019 - 08:11 PM

#12

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

There's no point in replying to Spr1nter seriously anymore. I could type an essay on game balance and tear down every single one of his complaint points, but it's a waste of effort because he just came here to vent and will not listen to anything he is told. At least when Xensor showed up here with his mediocre Mewtwo-EX deck saying "my skill is on high" (actual quote btw xd) it was good entertainment. There is nothing amusing about this guy to justify us continuing to fancy him with our responses, and like I said already (and should be blatantly obvious to anyone else) he has no interest in hearing the advise of other people. No one can change his mind, he will just keep posting these complaint replies (and necro bump a few threads while he's at it), and he will make zero effort to see things from a different perspective.

 

There is no more discussion to be had here. If anyone wants to continue then be my guest; me saying that it's pointless to keep responding is just a recommendation. But allow me to insist one final time: this is a waste of time and effort.

 

EDIT: I was going to say "/thread", but then realized that this dude wasn't the OP xd So if OP is still interested in continuing the discussion it's not thread over just yet. 


Edited by Sakura150612, 16 March 2019 - 09:23 PM.

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18 March 2019 - 09:23 PM

#13

Nitron2097

    Rookie Trainer

  • Nitron2097

If I'm playing Team Up Gyarados and I open Magikarp and six Basic Water and my opponent gets first turn PikaRom with triple energy, am I supposed to just sit there while I get trashed? That's not fun for me, and I wouldn't expect anyone else to sit thorugh that. I wouldn't.

 

Sometimes you just don't have a playable hand. Sometimes you're trying to play rogue and your opponent is playing Tier 1 stuff. And the game doesn't tell you if you're opponent is doing a challenge.

 

People can scoop early here because you can scoop early in the physical game. I've seen several threads on this topic and the devs have yet to do anything about it, so I think we can say at this point they're not interested.


Edited by Nitron2097, 18 March 2019 - 09:23 PM.

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