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Curious: I was wondering, can you start an unofficial league?


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07 March 2019 - 01:04 AM

#1

OfficerShane

    Junior Trainer

  • OfficerShane

I have been running into a series of issues trying to get folks in the Standard/Expanded VS play to stay in the game long enough to play through a hand. Unless they start with a total upperhand, water deck VS my fire deck, they have EX/GX while I use normal evolutions, etc., they just up and quit, usually before turn #3.

 

That got me to pondering, if I were to setup an unoffical league, with people that want player versus player competition, that you can actually play through and test those decks we all spend hours building and tweaking... That would be great!

 

I ran it past a friend that helped me complete my EX/BREAK collection, and he mentioned that it's a ban-able offense and that some guy did before and he got himself and all his friends banned. (Note: throughout our discourse I believe that this was more because they were acting as a group to exploit winnings, it seemed, I could be wrong -- usually am -- not because they organized an external competition... I mean, the regular card game does this in every hobby lobby around the world!)

 

I am curious, is there a way to do something like this without a threat of ban, within the rules of the TCGO user agreement, etc., etc...?

 

I cannot believe that it would be forbidden to encourage players to spend time on the game, actually playing the game in the manner it was likely originally intended, instead of this "oh no, he played a decent card, I quit," we're clearly getting tons of now. Which is just boring and has quickly made the game tiresome for me... I want competitive action!

 

Unfortunately, the only place to get it in game is the actual "tournaments," that you basically have to pay (8+ tickets) to enter...

 

I am asking the community, is there any way to do this legally? I don't want to be banned.

 

If it is, what options do I have as far as organization? I.e. Can I make a social media page for it? Can I livestream games? Can I award winners prizes and such? What are all the particulars?

 

This is likely more for Mods than anyone, but all info/input is appreciated.

 

Thank you to all in advance...


Edited by OfficerShane, 07 March 2019 - 01:07 AM.

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07 March 2019 - 01:40 AM

#2

XK920XK

    Veteran Trainer

  • XK920XK

i dont know told you they got banned for running their own tournament but thats probably inaccurate.

 

there are many streamers who run their own tournaments all the time and they even advertise it on here.

 

there is many websites that even has backets setup for you to run tournaments and even some sites where they take money as bets. I have never seen anyone banned from those. The streamers that promote those still stream.

 

there is a huge monthly one that runs once a month for hundreds of players every month and i dont see it shut down yet. Some of those regulars on that site frequent here all the time.


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07 March 2019 - 02:08 PM

#3

OfficerShane

    Junior Trainer

  • OfficerShane


i dont know told you they got banned for running their own tournament but thats probably inaccurate.



there are many streamers who run their own tournaments all the time and they even advertise it on here.



there is many websites that even has backets setup for you to run tournaments and even some sites where they take money as bets. I have never seen anyone banned from those. The streamers that promote those still stream.



there is a huge monthly one that runs once a month for hundreds of players every month and i dont see it shut down yet. Some of those regulars on that site frequent here all the time.




Thank you very much XK920XK, yeah I figured... It seemed odd, but I also know that sometimes, games impose rules that may seem odd or even counterproductive to the game itself, things that seem like they should be integrated within the game as it stands, but they simply do not want it happening. Therefore, I worried a little since I do not want to ever be banned or placed on the admin's disorderly list for anything. LOL!

 

 

I believe in rules and structure to things. Keeps it all on the up and up for everyone.


Edited by OfficerShane, 07 March 2019 - 02:10 PM.

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07 March 2019 - 02:51 PM

#4

harshu

    Elite Trainer

  • harshu

Do you mean tournaments that are conducted on forums ?

 

If that, then tournaments like these - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/26906-the-trading-card-league-tcl/

have run quite successfully and people were never banned. Even at this very moment there is a forum event going on..


If you need any Deck help just visit this thread - The Best Decks in TCG - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/28694-the-best-decks-in-tcg/
If you are new, and looking for a Beginner's Guide, click the following topic, to get reach to a Helpful Guide. - New Player Guide - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/31931-new-player-guide/
Click the names, and you can reach those Topics :)

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07 March 2019 - 04:36 PM

#5

SandaledOtter

    Elite Trainer

  • SandaledOtter

If someone was running one and keeping a chunk of the entry fee....


"Swishonk!" That's what's happening!

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07 March 2019 - 05:01 PM

#6

OfficerShane

    Junior Trainer

  • OfficerShane

Do you mean tournaments that are conducted on forums ?

 

If that, then tournaments like these - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/26906-the-trading-card-league-tcl/

have run quite successfully and people were never banned. Even at this very moment there is a forum event going on..

 

Hah, wow, that is complicated and seems like it is extremely serious! LOL! I bookmarked that one, seems very well thought out and implemented. Thanks for sharing. Will definitely give that a revisit... 

Noticed that you are on the list of those who have beaten their Elite Four... 

To answer your question, yes, and no also... I mean, just any organizational grouping of people that are playing competitively to have fun and socialize... Like what the game is all about essentially -- to me at least... 

I am just tired of not being able to play against human players that want to actually play against me back... I'm very tired of running through setup, then as I am going through my first play of the game, "VICTORY!" It's gotten old very fast... 

My wife, son, and several friends that play would love to join up with something like this as well I am sure! There is no sense in collecting cards and making well thought decks if you cannot play them... 


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07 March 2019 - 05:15 PM

#7

OfficerShane

    Junior Trainer

  • OfficerShane

If someone was running one and keeping a chunk of the entry fee....

 

That is totally understandable -- I am not looking to scam anyone or make any profits, unless I legitimately win of course, which is unlikely presently I'll confess. The reward I seek is real competitive gameplay.

I was just thinking like find 20+ people down for the idea, then occasionally, like once per week, have a scheduled time to play out a series of rounds in elimination style matches (typical tournament setup), sometimes for fun, sometimes for prizes. If for prizes, then there would need to be an entry fee of some form, digitally in game or externally, like 5 boosters for entry or some other exchange (1 EX/GX card), but the entry fees should only be used 100% for the prizes winners receive, nothing else. Prizes to be traded in game within 24 hours of the tournament -- if instantly isn't available, and keep record/screenshots of transactions, for mere integrity and transparency. Maybe streaming the events externally (for both entertainment and keeping a record of what happened, along with a parse of the gameplay rundown from the clients - to keep things fair etc.), just for the sake of having something to do with real players outside the confines of the current client itself, and the limits of what it has to offer... 

That is my idea, or what my question pertains to, more or less... Just honest fun and competition. Not a concede "VICTORY!" every 2 minutes... Which gets very boring... 


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07 March 2019 - 05:29 PM

#8

OfficerShane

    Junior Trainer

  • OfficerShane

Do you mean tournaments that are conducted on forums ?

 

If that, then tournaments like these - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/26906-the-trading-card-league-tcl/

have run quite successfully and people were never banned. Even at this very moment there is a forum event going on..

 

Hey Harshu, is this for PTCGO or for Pokemon TCG? After reading more in depth it seems like this is for the actual real world card game, not for an event organized within the PTCGO client environment... 


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07 March 2019 - 06:21 PM

#9

harshu

    Elite Trainer

  • harshu

Hah, wow, that is complicated and seems like it is extremely serious! LOL! I bookmarked that one, seems very well thought out and implemented. Thanks for sharing. Will definitely give that a revisit... 

Noticed that you are on the list of those who have beaten their Elite Four... 

To answer your question, yes, and no also... I mean, just any organizational grouping of people that are playing competitively to have fun and socialize... Like what the game is all about essentially -- to me at least... 

I am just tired of not being able to play against human players that want to actually play against me back... I'm very tired of running through setup, then as I am going through my first play of the game, "VICTORY!" It's gotten old very fast... 

My wife, son, and several friends that play would love to join up with something like this as well I am sure! There is no sense in collecting cards and making well thought decks if you cannot play them... 

Apparently that tournament was like 3 years ago and was called off after the host went inactive.

 

As for organizing a tournament, you will never ever get banned for participating or hosting an event as long as it doesn't involve the following -

 

1. Asking for entry fees (asking for donations is fine, which means all the donations are given away to the winners)

2. Not living up to the prize and rules or any unfair means of hosting which puts the participants in a bad or worse position. (You cannot use prizes of IRL for a tournament of PTCGO etc.. )


If you need any Deck help just visit this thread - The Best Decks in TCG - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/28694-the-best-decks-in-tcg/
If you are new, and looking for a Beginner's Guide, click the following topic, to get reach to a Helpful Guide. - New Player Guide - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/31931-new-player-guide/
Click the names, and you can reach those Topics :)

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08 March 2019 - 11:05 PM

#10

OfficerShane

    Junior Trainer

  • OfficerShane

Thanks a lot Harshu, your input is very much appreciated...

My basic idea was more along the lines of, let's just say for example and full disclosure's sake:

We have 24 people. Each of the 24 donate a SM booster pack to the event. (I'm picking small numbers for simplicity and the assumption that most people won't join the first few times anyway)

I'll match their 24 boosters with 24 TeamUp boosters (maybe three Ultra Rare TeamUp cards as well, two rainbow holo Eevee/Snorlax or Magikarp/Wailord and a Pikachu/Zekrom) to sweeten the winning *** to 48 total packs plus additional cards for the semi-finalists. Once a week I can afford something this miniscule, besides, I am often sitting on more than that anyway (probably have close to 250 boosters on hand now).

We setup matches, lets say rules are Standard deck only. Generate a 12 1v1 list.

Those 24 people battle in an elimination style.

Once the first round ends, we make sure everyone is in agreement on who continues. Any conflicts and I'll review the game video and or turn log from the client and make a "judge's decision," if need be. This continues down, etc.

The determined final 4 people of the tournament will be semi-finalists. They each get 4 packs for participating.

The two winners move on as finalists and they each get 6 packs (now 10 each) and a Magikarp/Wailord 183/181 for participating.

The winner gets 20 more packs -- being a total of 30 boosters and a Piakchu Zekrom 184/181 for winning.

The whole thing should conclude within 1.5-2 hour time frame.

From there on we can expand and find more people and hold other smaller closed events and whatnot. It seems like it would be best for me to not participate in the major events (at least at first), but make more friends there for more PvP casual battles afterward. Just for the sake of integrity. If I cannot win, then I don't walk away with anything, ergo my integrity shouldn't even be a question.

I don't care so much about the prize point, but I know that will draw other competitive players in.

Does that sound like it would be okay? The idea more-or-less in full and all that...

I just feel like there needs to be something more. The game is great but is very limited, especially until the mods can get a go ahead to do something about the bot/concede issues, there really is nothing to be done in VS outside of theme battles. You can't even finish the challenges unless you go to theme battles.

Back to my argument, what good is there collecting all the cards if they are pretty much useless in game? 90%+ of theme players seem human. 50% or so in Standard. It feels like 10% or less in Expanded/Unlimited. Never tried Legacy to be honest.

Ironically, while writing this, I just got a SM Forbidden Light Booster Box in the mail. LOL! 36 more packs... I have 11 more SM Booster Boxes in shipping now, so 396 more packs OTW (2 SM Base, 2 SM Ultra Prism, 2 SM Lost Thunder, 2 Crimson Invasion,1 Dragon Majesty, 1 Celestial Storm, & 1 Guardians Rising) and just got 2 Burning Shadows the day before yesterday. LOL! My son is a collector... and a bit spoiled...


Edited by OfficerShane, 08 March 2019 - 11:12 PM.

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09 March 2019 - 01:32 PM

#11

harshu

    Elite Trainer

  • harshu

Hey Harshu, is this for PTCGO or for Pokemon TCG? After reading more in depth it seems like this is for the actual real world card game, not for an event organized within the PTCGO client environment... 

It was a PTCGO event.

 

 

Thanks a lot Harshu, your input is very much appreciated...

My basic idea was more along the lines of, let's just say for example and full disclosure's sake:

We have 24 people. Each of the 24 donate a SM booster pack to the event. (I'm picking small numbers for simplicity and the assumption that most people won't join the first few times anyway)

I'll match their 24 boosters with 24 TeamUp boosters (maybe three Ultra Rare TeamUp cards as well, two rainbow holo Eevee/Snorlax or Magikarp/Wailord and a Pikachu/Zekrom) to sweeten the winning *** to 48 total packs plus additional cards for the semi-finalists. Once a week I can afford something this miniscule, besides, I am often sitting on more than that anyway (probably have close to 250 boosters on hand now).

We setup matches, lets say rules are Standard deck only. Generate a 12 1v1 list.

Those 24 people battle in an elimination style.

Once the first round ends, we make sure everyone is in agreement on who continues. Any conflicts and I'll review the game video and or turn log from the client and make a "judge's decision," if need be. This continues down, etc.

The determined final 4 people of the tournament will be semi-finalists. They each get 4 packs for participating.

The two winners move on as finalists and they each get 6 packs (now 10 each) and a Magikarp/Wailord 183/181 for participating.

The winner gets 20 more packs -- being a total of 30 boosters and a Piakchu Zekrom 184/181 for winning.

The whole thing should conclude within 1.5-2 hour time frame.

From there on we can expand and find more people and hold other smaller closed events and whatnot. It seems like it would be best for me to not participate in the major events (at least at first), but make more friends there for more PvP casual battles afterward. Just for the sake of integrity. If I cannot win, then I don't walk away with anything, ergo my integrity shouldn't even be a question.

I don't care so much about the prize point, but I know that will draw other competitive players in.

Does that sound like it would be okay? The idea more-or-less in full and all that...

I just feel like there needs to be something more. The game is great but is very limited, especially until the mods can get a go ahead to do something about the bot/concede issues, there really is nothing to be done in VS outside of theme battles. You can't even finish the challenges unless you go to theme battles.

Back to my argument, what good is there collecting all the cards if they are pretty much useless in game? 90%+ of theme players seem human. 50% or so in Standard. It feels like 10% or less in Expanded/Unlimited. Never tried Legacy to be honest.

Ironically, while writing this, I just got a SM Forbidden Light Booster Box in the mail. LOL! 36 more packs... I have 11 more SM Booster Boxes in shipping now, so 396 more packs OTW (2 SM Base, 2 SM Ultra Prism, 2 SM Lost Thunder, 2 Crimson Invasion,1 Dragon Majesty, 1 Celestial Storm, & 1 Guardians Rising) and just got 2 Burning Shadows the day before yesterday. LOL! My son is a collector... and a bit spoiled...

That would be a really great event. But just as a warning, sometimes its way more tedious to host and manage a tournament then it looks on paper. So if you are ready for that, go ahead why not ? :)


If you need any Deck help just visit this thread - The Best Decks in TCG - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/28694-the-best-decks-in-tcg/
If you are new, and looking for a Beginner's Guide, click the following topic, to get reach to a Helpful Guide. - New Player Guide - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/31931-new-player-guide/
Click the names, and you can reach those Topics :)

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10 March 2019 - 05:43 AM

#12

XK920XK

    Veteran Trainer

  • XK920XK

Apparently that tournament was like 3 years ago and was called off after the host went inactive.

 

As for organizing a tournament, you will never ever get banned for participating or hosting an event as long as it doesn't involve the following -

 

1. Asking for entry fees (asking for donations is fine, which means all the donations are given away to the winners)

2. Not living up to the prize and rules or any unfair means of hosting which puts the participants in a bad or worse position. (You cannot use prizes of IRL for a tournament of PTCGO etc.. )

 

this isnt true and even if it is, its not enforced, there is a monthly 96 player tournament that has been happening for at least a year plus now and no player has been banned from participating. that tournament is even sponsored and advertised by many pro players, they  even play in it. you get a guarantee spot for only 15 usd a month and they give out irl packs and/or virtual currency to spend in there shop for irl products.

 

if this is against the rules, id be more then happy to share the site privately with any mod so you can ban those pro players and even members on this forum that post regularly. which like i said, not against the rules.


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10 March 2019 - 08:04 AM

#13

harshu

    Elite Trainer

  • harshu

this isnt true and even if it is, its not enforced, there is a monthly 96 player tournament that has been happening for at least a year plus now and no player has been banned from participating. that tournament is even sponsored and advertised by many pro players, they  even play in it. you get a guarantee spot for only 15 usd a month and they give out irl packs and/or virtual currency to spend in there shop for irl products.

 

if this is against the rules, id be more then happy to share the site privately with any mod so you can ban those pro players and even members on this forum that post regularly. which like i said, not against the rules.

That is because they are only using PTCGO as a platform and taking the fees in IRL money as well. So its like giving money IRL then playing a game then getting prizes for IRL stuff as well. So that is basically a normal life tournament just being played on PTCGO. So even if someone complains against it, PTCGO can't do anything because they are basically giving out packs (prizes) for money and the players would have agreed to terms and conditions on that particular website. It is nothing at all like a PTCGO hosted tournament (entry-fees is already not allowed )

 

What I meant was for player run tournaments that don't have legal backing or any kind of terms and conditions here on the forums. If you do that and someone reports you, there is a high chance of you getting banned. Besides I don't think the website wouldn't have checked with mods already to see if running such kind of tournament was legal or not.

 

my point was only for standalone tournaments that players usually create here. You can't ask for in-game donations and promise IRL prizes, because that way players are vulnerable of getting scammed..


If you need any Deck help just visit this thread - The Best Decks in TCG - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/28694-the-best-decks-in-tcg/
If you are new, and looking for a Beginner's Guide, click the following topic, to get reach to a Helpful Guide. - New Player Guide - http://forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/31931-new-player-guide/
Click the names, and you can reach those Topics :)

  • 0

10 March 2019 - 04:42 PM

#14

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_




if this is against the rules, id be more then happy to share the site privately with any mod so you can ban those pro players and even members on this forum that post regularly. which like i said, not against the rules.


**** son, you'd turn into a snitch without blinking an eye? That ain't cool.



Jokes aside, if you don't promote anything on the forum you don't need to worry about the mods. (as long as none of your players give an anonymous tip to the cops, which brings us back to the first point .. xD.

The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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11 March 2019 - 09:16 AM

#15

awesome_guy

    Elite Trainer

  • awesome_guy

i'm not sure about their policy of off forums tournaments, but i am sure about two things from my time on the forums which might be helpful:

 

1. any and all entry fees must go into the prize pool (as in no swapping/ organizing charges)

 

I do remember a friend of mine named bulbasaur32277 making an effective elite four (win 5 in a row) challenge requiring a pack entry fee and putting those packs into a prize pool. So as long as you're not taking any out, you should be fine

 

Also, TCL (which harshu linked above) would be a good read for you since they were one of the more successful leagues on tcg forums

 

2. no links leading off forums (so do remember that since you said you were doing this on social media)

I'm not sure what the mods' policy about mentioning other sites is, but links to any non-pokemon-company sites are a strict no no.

 

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavours :)


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