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B03

Why so many two turn decks?

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B03

Ever since the new packs came out I have been having to face against more and more decks that force you you sit there for like 3-5 minutes per turn as they go through their whole deck in under 4 turns and full set up in 2-3 turns. I am really not enjoying having to sit there knowing that I lost after the first turn. How am I even supposed to compete against this? I think I am just going to start having to forfeit 70% of my matches in the first turn. This is also the main reason that I never play tournaments since I know I have about a 10% chance of beating the first guy. I am just lucky that I have had some time to get somewhat decent cards. I can hardly imagine having to be a new player and get thrown from the tutorial with crappy cards and getting annihilated by people with decks that are nothing but full art/super rares that wipe the floor with you. Any ideas on how I can avoid this unfairness or if I even can? I just want to have a chance to win.

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SKBellmore

Hey B03,

 

 

I know what it’s like, I used to go through it. There are two ways to counter it.

 

1.Find some cheap strategies, the ones made to counter *********************** has some.

2. Go all Full Arts and Secret Rares like your opponents. If you can’t beat them, join them.

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XK920XK

please, 2 turn decks are so old now, have you seen the zapdos/jolteon jirachi 1 turn deck lol

 

as i always say, play theme till you get near a complete deck before entering standard/expanded events.

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SandaledOtter

As SuM approached, there were people praising or bemoaning the death of fast setup decks in standard with the passing of Wally, FoGP, and the like.

 

Yet here we are.

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Sakura150612

I'm afraid the problem is probably on your end. It doesn't take a deck full of expensive cards to be able to compete, there's plenty of readily available staples that have a huge impact on the consistency and efficiency of your deck. Grinding some packs every now and then using Tickets is a good idea to get the necessary resources to buy anything that's more expensive than a single pack (specially around the release of new expansions since you're guaranteed to get the new pack, which almost always gets valued between 1.5 and 2 on the first few days). You don't even need a decent deck to do this, just buy whatever Theme Deck happens to be the strongest at the moment and watch the money roll in.

 

I'd like to point out as well that the game is rarely over in a single turn. The only things that can really do that are plays that lock you out turn 1 (like getting Marshadow'd into Delinquent followed by Glaceon), and it's not every single game that this happens (there are many other decks out there, and these lock decks will not always go first and manage the lock). If you want a card game that's over in turn 1, go play Yugioh. Good luck getting past an established board with a million different effect negation cards in play if you're forced to go second and didn't draw any hand traps in your starting hand. At least in Pokemon I'm allowed to set up in peace.

 

I'm pretty sure that we've been through this discussion before... if you don't put at least some effort to improve your deckbuilding, you'll keep finding yourself frustrated in 70%+ of your games. There have been a good number of new players on these boards that, after some initial help (both with advice and with actual cards), never complained again that they were having to concede over half of their games. I know this for a fact since some of them are people that I've helped myself, and now they're enjoying the game just fine with no issue. So you can do it to if you really wanted to.

 

Hey B03,


I know what it’s like, I used to go through it. There are two ways to counter it.

1.Find some cheap strategies, the ones made to counter *********************** has some.
2. Go all Full Arts and Secret Rares like your opponents. If you can’t beat them, join them.

Is this meant to be sarcastic? Just asking because if find it strange that you suggest getting a ton of SRs when aesthetic upgrades are obviously useless when it comes to improving a deck. You're probably being sarcastic, but you know, this IS the internet and I wouldn't put it past some people to post something like that completely unironically.

 

please, 2 turn decks are so old now, have you seen the zapdos/jolteon jirachi 1 turn deck lol

 

as i always say, play theme till you get near a complete deck before entering standard/expanded events.

Pretty much this. 'Nuff said.

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B03

Of course I know that my decks are not perfect and for the most part they have been slowly improving. However, they only improve against none 2 turn decks. The only 2 turn deck that I have a chance against is the night march one because I have the ability to stop damage from pokemon with special energy. The only way I can think to combat these other decks would be to join them. This is similar to the situation that I was in a couple months ago. Back then I could never beat the garchomp decks and the meta was spammed by them. At least for the garchomp deck, I had a good few turns to try to set up. Now it is a situation where if I cant fully set up in the first or second turn I lose. I have no idea how to improve the decks that I currently use either. I guess I could try to spend coins on the packs that have the 2 turn cards and try to make those decks.

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Sakura150612

You really don't listen at all, do you? You've been around here long enough to know that opening packs is the worst thing you can do when you're struggling to gather resources. Opening tradable packs is literally taking your money to the casino, but spending your tokens in tradelocked packs in hopes of finding a specific card is just as much of a waste. The forum is littered everywhere with advice on how to obtain the cards you need, and yet you just ignore all of that and do whatever you want (which is fine, but then it's on you that you never improve). It's not the game's fault if you refuse to improve.

 

Now I remember why I stopped replying to your other thread, you never listen anyways. Thanks for me reminding me.

Edited by Sakura150612
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B03

You really don't listen at all, do you? You've been around here long enough to know that opening packs is the worst thing you can do when you're struggling to gather resources. Opening tradable packs is literally taking your money to the casino, but spending your tokens in tradelocked packs in hopes of finding a specific card is just as much of a waste. The forum is littered everywhere with advice on how to obtain the cards you need, and yet you just ignore all of that and do whatever you want (which is fine, but then it's on you that you never improve). It's not the game's fault if you refuse to improve.

 

Now I remember why I stopped replying to your other thread, you never listen anyways. Thanks for me reminding me.

if i remember correctly, i asked on the last one about how the "economy" works and how to know if a trade is fair or not and i did not get an answer. The main reason that i dont trade packs is because i have zero idea many packs a card is worth. I dont open tradable packs and have some saved up so the whole "you are bringing money to the casino by opening tradable packs" is wrong.

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B03

I should also point out that i am not talking about decks that lock you first or second turn. I have not really come across those. I am talking about ones that go through over half their deck in 1 or 2 turns and fully set up. Examples would be night march, which i can sort of beat, and mega rayquaza where they get full bench, full energy and mega evolve first turn. There are so others but these where just the ones that stood out the most.

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Sakura150612

mega rayquaza where they get full bench, full energy and mega evolve first turn.

Sudowoodo

 

Mind = Blown

 

I insist, if you havent improved yet, it's simply because you don't want to.

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B03

 

 

 

Sudowoodo

 

 

 

Mind = Blown

 

 

 

I insist, if you havent improved yet, it's simply because you don't want to.

okay. Just let me casually be able to completely predict what deck I will face next and use a deck that is able to fully counter that deck. Or are you suggesting I try to make a deck that fully counters every single meta deck out there? So unless you have some magical strat or deck that is able to do that I suggest for you to stop giving a half baked solution to a single deck and saying that I am an ignorant ****** for not magically knowing exactly what decks I am going to face and having access to every single possible card to make the perfect counter deck to it. I will also counter by saying that you yourself have not read my posts. I clearly stated that I have been improving and yet you claim the opposite. I stated that while I have made improvements, these improvements are only for decks that have at least a chance for me to set up. I have had little to no prior experience against decks that go through their full deck in 3 turns or less.

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Sakura150612

Do you know what a tech is? It might not be a bad idea to use the forum's search function to find out.

 

EDIT: Google also helps.

Edited by Sakura150612

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B03

Do you know what a tech is? It might not be a bad idea to use the forum's search function to find out.

EDIT: Google also helps.

you see this is news to me. This is much more useful than most people saying "gitgud". If you remember from my previous posts, the main issue I had was that my decks had like no consistancy. So it would be safe to assume that I have been working mostly one improving consistanty, which i have. Now my decks are more consistiant but, now I lack those random cards that i had in my old decks which i used for counters. I have no idea what cards i would even get rid of to trhow those random cards into my deck.

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Sakura150612

Just throw out whatever is getting the least amount of use in your deck. Your deck space should prioritize (in actual order of priority):

 

1) Staples (4 VS Seeker, 2-4 Sycamore, 3-4 Ultra Ball, Shaymin-EX and/or Tapu Lele-GX if you have any, basically things that can never be missing no matter what deck you're using).

 

2) Main attack line. Night March must have 4-4-4 NM Pokemon and never any less, Zoroark-GX must have 4-4, stage 2 decks must have 4-2-4 or similar line coupled with Rare Candy, etc.

 

3) Supporting Pokemon that are essential to the strategy. Magcargo for Granbull, Lucario for Garchomp, etc.

 

4) Consistency cards that aren't essential. Trainers' Mail and Acro Bike come to mind.

 

5) Techs, probably no more than 3-4 total. 1 Karen and/or Oricorio for Night March, 1 Sudowoodo for Zoroark-GX (and possible Mega Rays), 1 Shuckle-GX for 1 energy attackers and Rotom, etc.

 

After that it's just trial-and-error to figure out which cards feel like bricks and which ones feel like you need more of.

 

PS. You can find a card value refference guide in google as well (outcast's price guide).

 

All of the information is out there, it's just a matter of searching enough. Decks that burn half of its cards turn 1 are nothing new, and in expanded practically any deck can do it. This really isn't hard at all. Sorry if I'm rubbing salt on the wound, but if you're really conceding 70% of your games the problem is on your end. The game isn't unfair, it's just a matter of time and experience until you realize it.

 

And don't forget, google is your friend. Almost everything you would ever want to know shows up on the first page of results.

Edited by Sakura150612

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B03

I put up a trade to try to get a couple shuckle gxs to start off with. Time will tell for that.

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B03

That trade just went through and now I have 2 shuckle gx's. I am not sure which cards I should go for next. My current main deck is electric. What is the recommended cards for that. I am using jolteon gx, pickachu zekrom gx, Xurkitree gx, koko, lugia gx ,and Zeraora gx. I also got super lucky with the daily pack. Managed to pull an alolan ninetails and life forest.

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WingsofFire1014

That trade just went through and now I have 2 shuckle gx's. I am not sure which cards I should go for next. My current main deck is electric. What is the recommended cards for that. I am using jolteon gx, pickachu zekrom gx, Xurkitree gx, koko, lugia gx ,and Zeraora gx. I also got super lucky with the daily pack. Managed to pull an alolan ninetails and life forest.

Bro, bro, bro. Here is a little of advice.

 

Do you know how deck construction works? It seems that you just make decks because you have some card of that type that is powerful.

 

I mean, you can correct me if I am wrong. If all of those cards really make a good deck, then congrats. If you have been winning with that deck, then congrats. Otherwise, figure out how to make a good\strategic deck. There are many things on Google to show you how.

 

I notice that you have been improving the consistency of your deck. Every card in your deck should be important. Just don't throw in a couple of cards because you need a few more to hit 60.

Edited by WingsofFire1014

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RobRatt

Seems to me that everybody should ease up, and get off this guy's case a little.

 

If any genius here has a Master Deck List -- with all the right Tech Cards -- to stop every Turn 2 freight train possible, by all means post your own deck list.

 

Otherwise, it might help to remember what it was like when you first began playing. He's reaching out, trying to learn. Why is that a problem?

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OfficerShane

Honestly, I didn't read all the responses, so if I am repeating something said, I apologize... fixed for time...

 

Anyway, I have very few of "the newest" cards (except what I unlocked in the trainer challenge) because I am cheap... I use mostly a mix of B&W and XY cards with a few SM thrown in... I have encountered a few people that give me some trouble, and a few that beat me, but for the most part I can end a game on top pretty reliably... 

Firstly, if you are losing on the first turn (literally), often anyway, then you likely don't have enough Pokemon in your hand. Try to stay close to the 20/20/20 rule on that one. You can waiver a little but you need to be reassured that within 7 cards there should at least be one or two Pokemon. 

When choosing Pokemon try to bypass evolutions as much as possible. Lengthy evolutions take turns, usually a lot of energy, and if you are getting ended on the first few turns, then you don't have that time... Search for those final version basic Pokemon, they have a really good balance to them of HP, Damage Output, and usually abilities, but at times tend to take a little more energy than the big boys. Baby Zygardes, Charizards, and Lunalas can hang in there strong. You can also evolve EX (then M.EX) and Breaks off them just like the regular evolutions with far less steps between.

Also, look at your entire selection of Trainer cards and balance between supporters and items. Supporters often have the greatest advantages with the lowest cost but you can only use one per turn, while items have lesser effects but can be stacked throughout the turn. Always have cards like Cynthia (to abandon a bad hand for a new one without discarding), Hau/Tierno (draw 3), Lady (draw up to 4 energy), Blacksmith (attach 2 energy from discard), Brock (recover 6 pokemon and energy to deck from discard), and Kahili (draw 2, flip a coin, heads put her back in your hand) to keep your cards rotating. Then have things like Energy Mover, Reclaim Energy, various Pokeball types (to snag basics or evolution cards) to give you more options each turn. Cassius is a great card to sit on to deprive your opponent of a winning point instead of switch cards (because although the pokemon is reshuffled, all damage is removed). Then of course a few Pokemon Center Lady(s) and Potions so you can recover 90, 120, 150+ damage per turn. Also, never forget to keep a hold of a few throw away pokemon and have a stadium or two that favor your gameplay and types OR throw a wrench in another's deck. 

Fortunately, there is no way to prepare for all decks in advance, that is what makes the game great! Everyone has a fair chance. Also, be sure to have multiple decks and rotate through them. The odds of winning dramatically increase when you continuously change your strategy. If you keep doing the same thing you are bound to find your nemesis deck on someone, if you rotate through, your odds are much better... If you want to really disrupt another's gameplay, make a fairy deck...

This is obvious, but I feel it should be mentioned, be sure to read and really think about what each card is saying. Take your time during your turn and explore all options before jumping to the conclusion of pressing attack for that victory hit - you may be disappointed. Read your opponents cards and try to see through their strategy a few turns in advance. Once in a while that easy kill in front of you with 20/130HP remaining could spell a downward cascade of lost Pokemon from your hand. Take a deep breath and evaluate all options and what options your opponent has that you can see...

I haven't been playing the online game long, but I played the card game in the 90's and the early 2000's before I gave it all away. To be honest, I am having a blast! The game itself, by default, is very balanced and to be honest there is a LOT of luck involved in how well a battle goes for you. Don't be disheartened and keep on pushing through - things will turn around for you...

Hopefully, some of this was helpful... Good luck to you and have fun! 

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OfficerShane

Sorry to double post, but also, most important, don't fall in love with a certain card or type, especially in the beginning... Test a lot of decks and types out... You may find your play-style fits a niche that you are ignoring because of preference or surface opinion. Also, keep testing them, you may very well run into little problems, like it may seem you are often thinking, where's my energy -- if so add a couple "Lady" cards. If you often find your bench short, drop some energy and throw a few more basic Pokemon in. If it feels like you have plenty of Pokemon and Energy but always need a heal or can't ever get a certain card, drop a Pokemon or two and an energy or two and increase the number of that item/supporter card. Finding your play-style balance is the most important. Believe me, there is no one deck to rule them all... Even world champion Pokemon players take their lumps from random people at times. It's really what is best for you and works best with how you think you should play... Okay, gotta run! Have a great day! 

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OfficerShane

Sorry - sorry - sorry (to the forums mods)...

 

I am assuming you have completed all the Player vs. AI trainer challenges and unlocked all the free cards there... (Beat each Trainer 4x, max level each theme deck to 7/7 to unlock new cards and boosters, complete all three tiers of trainers, etc.)

 

Be sure to do your daily challenge (click your little level icon) and your Versus ladder dailies in the beginning (set it to theme or standard to start, not expanded/unlimited) to ****** tons of better cards. Once you have 500 tokens go to the shop and grab up a new theme deck (good ones are Mach Strike - Garchomp, Hidden Moon - Lunala, Imperal Command - Empoleon, Gears of Fire - Volcanion, Blazing Volcano - Entei, Battle ruler - Zygarde, Torrential Cannon - Blastoise, Relentless Flame - Charizard; in no particular order, whichever you prefer) and then max those to get more boosters - just to the 12/12 mark and unlock them for theme deck play in VS.

 

Keep switching decks and keep beating trainers you haven't with each deck until you unlock all these things. When you run out, hit VS and do more theme deck battles. This will also give you a ton of strategy ideas with decks you are already familiar with from the Trainer battles and there is no real chance of getting ******** on the first few turns as the opponent is playing on a fixed system.

 

Just a final point...

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B03

Bro, bro, bro. Here is a little of advice.

 

Do you know how deck construction works? It seems that you just make decks because you have some card of that type that is powerful.

 

I mean, you can correct me if I am wrong. If all of those cards really make a good deck, then congrats. If you have been winning with that deck, then congrats. Otherwise, figure out how to make a good\strategic deck. There are many things on Google to show you how.

 

I notice that you have been improving the consistency of your deck. Every card in your deck should be important. Just don't throw in a couple of cards because you need a few more to hit 60.

The deck I have with these cards is doing pretty well so far. Against decks that give you at least like 2 turns it does quite well. It cant compete when I have only 1 turn to set up tho. I did base the deck off the fact I had some good cards. I feel like it has good coverage in the fact that it has pokemon that can be immune to basics, one that is immune to special energy, one for free retreat, one for crazy damage plus getting out energy, and one for a free switch/new attacker. It is by no means perfect but it is one of the best ones I have made based on what decks I used to make.

 

Firstly, if you are losing on the first turn (literally), often anyway, then you likely don't have enough Pokemon in your hand. Try to stay close to the 20/20/20 rule on that one. You can waiver a little but you need to be reassured that within 7 cards there should at least be one or two Pokemon. 

 

 

 

This is obvious, but I feel it should be mentioned, be sure to read and really think about what each card is saying. Take your time during your turn and explore all options before jumping to the conclusion of pressing attack for that victory hit - you may be disappointed. Read your opponents cards and try to see through their strategy a few turns in advance. Once in a while that easy kill in front of you with 20/130HP remaining could spell a downward cascade of lost Pokemon from your hand. Take a deep breath and evaluate all options and what options your opponent has that you can see...

 

There are times where I do have the pokemon out but after their first turn they have gone down to like 18 cards left in their deck and they are ready to do well over 150 damage per turn. I used to try to make decks with the 20/20/20 but that is when I had massive consistency issues. The deck I am currently maining is 7/37/16. I know that 37 my be a bit too much but its not like it is mostly supporters and 16 energy, for the most part, has been enough considering that pikachu and zekrom gx needs 6 to fully use its gx attack.

 

I would also say that, for most decks I play against, I know their strategy. The main issue would be that there are times where I have no way of stopping it. I will say that jolteon ex can stop a lot of the ones that rely on basic pokemon.

 

If you guys want I could post the deck so you can more properly judge it.

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SuperStone

There are times where I do have the pokemon out but after their first turn they have gone down to like 18 cards left in their deck and they are ready to do well over 150 damage per turn. I used to try to make decks with the 20/20/20 but that is when I had massive consistency issues. The deck I am currently maining is 7/37/16. I know that 37 my be a bit too much but its not like it is mostly supporters and 16 energy, for the most part, has been enough considering that pikachu and zekrom gx needs 6 to fully use its gx attack.

That's actually not a bad ratio.  In fact, the energy count could go even lower- depending on the deck, even to 6, though probably not quite that far.  12 is likely about right.  It could also be good to add some pokemon back in- just making sure that they all help the strategy.

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B03

That's actually not a bad ratio.  In fact, the energy count could go even lower- depending on the deck, even to 6, though probably not quite that far.  12 is likely about right.  It could also be good to add some pokemon back in- just making sure that they all help the strategy.

I could try to cut back on energy a bit. The main reason I would hesitate would be that I would need 6 for the gx attack plus the main attack can put 3 energy on any pokemon I want. I could still cut back since I play thunder mountain which means the all of my pokemon would only need 2 energy to attack and not 3

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Felidae_

As SuM approached, there were people praising or bemoaning the death of fast setup decks in standard with the passing of Wally, FoGP, and the like.

 

Yet here we are.

The speed of the Standard format has slowed down immensely, especially after the rotation when Sycamore dropped.

 

Don't mistake the set-up time for the actual gameplay though. Yes, decks can still set-up on turn two, but that's how the game has been for the last 5 years. The major difference between the format in the ROS time was the OHKO potential that was usually available on turn 2 onwards, osmetimes even on turn 1.

In the S&M era we see a lot of decks that can withstand a hit and even run Acerola to negate damage entirely. The mid and late game has drastically slowed down compared to previous iterations of the format.

 

 

@OP:

As I mentioned above, a turn 2 set-up is nothing new. In fact, with the free cards you get from the Theme decks everyone can build a decent trainer line up to ensure that the deck is properly set-up by turn 2 / 3.

I should also point out that you are ow simply at an ELO range where you start to see more decks that are well designed. As you progress through the game your opponents will get better. It has nothing to do with the new sets that are being released, but rather that your decks / you became too good for the weaker opponents. If you continue to lose you'll eventually drop to a point where you'll fight the weak ones again.

It'S up to you: improve your deck and face the new challenge, or drop down to the bottom of the barrel and start all over again.

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