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grommpy

Remove the no choice moments

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grommpy

1. You have selected an Active Pokemon, the game requires you to press Done.  You can only have 1 active pokemon. You don't have a choice. -> Automatically press Done after I have selected and dragged an Active Pokemon to that spot.

 

2. If you have no pokemon to set up after the Active Pokemon, the game requires me to press Done. If you don't have them in your hand, the game can easily know this, that you don't have a choice.-> Do that automatically.

 

3. In a tournament, if you lose in the 1st round, you have to stay around till round 3 to get any prizes. Why? Let players leave and give them their rewards based on their rank which is known in single elimination.

 

There are probably more basis UX usability things the Pokemon Online TCG developer team can improve like the coin flip, but these are the first that come to mind. If you have additional moments like these, feel free to add them to this thread!

 

 

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XK920XK

1. Its a active status check, basically its a way for the system to detect if a player is active or afk/disconnected. If active then you hit done if inactive then put you into short timer immediately.

 

2.The reason the game does this is so your opponent doesnt know if you have a basic in hand or not. If the game automatically hits done when you dont have another basic in hand its a tell to your opponent letting them know you dont have anything else to place down. 

 

3. You dont have to wait around, you can leave the event and go play vs ladder or whatever. When the event is over it will give you the rewards.

Edited by XK920XK
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grommpy

1. Its a active status check, basically its a way for the system to detect if a player is active or afk/disconnected. If active then you hit done if inactive then put you into short timer immediately.

 

2.The reason the game does this is so your opponent doesnt know if you have a basic in hand or not. If the game automatically hits done when you dont have another basic in hand its a tell to your opponent letting them know you dont have anything else to place down. 

 

3. You dont have to wait around, you can leave the event and go play vs ladder or whatever. When the event is over it will give you the rewards.

 

re 1: The active check is already done several times at the coin flip mechanism, which can be shortened a lot as well (either reducing the choice to go first / second after flipping coin straight away, or always let heads start). The only problem with reducing the coinflip to 1 choice or removing it is that it would make online different from offline, which can be confusig.

 

re 2: Fair enough.

 

re 3: Ah I did not know that. Again, it is something the game can speed up.

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SandaledOtter

1. Its a active status check, basically its a way for the system to detect if a player is active or afk/disconnected. If active then you hit done if inactive then put you into short timer immediately.

 

2.The reason the game does this is so your opponent doesnt know if you have a basic in hand or not. If the game automatically hits done when you dont have another basic in hand its a tell to your opponent letting them know you dont have anything else to place down. 

 

3. You dont have to wait around, you can leave the event and go play vs ladder or whatever. When the event is over it will give you the rewards.

 

There is an extra hold in mulligans that should go away:

  1. You're going to redraw.
  2. It's time to redraw.
  3. You redrew, here are your failed draws.

For a double mulligan, there is no prompt at all before the redraw. At least one of the first two should be removed.

 

 

On that "reason" for the click to hide a Basic in your hand? Guess what happens when your opponent mulligans and you draw an extra card. Go on. :) 

Yeah. Say you played all your Basics before the extra draw. If you draw a Basic, you get another button to click, but if you don't draw a Basic, and you don't have one in your hand already, it goes straight to the game without that button.

If that reason is real, there should be a prompt AFTER you draw for your opponent's mulligan, regardless of what you drew.

 

 

#3 is spot on.

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grommpy

1. It's still a good idea to auto-Done after selecting an Active Pokemon. That doesn't give information, nor is it a ready check.

 

3. Still, why wait till a single elimination tournament is over? Give the rewards now. :)

 

As to all those mulligan moments, I agree the absence/presence of those moments can and already does give information to the opposing player. Which should be avoided.

 

4. The game could do the Mulligans before drawing the 1st hand, like Magic:TG does. The game would generate 3 hands before the game starts, and then chooses the hand with the amount of basic pokemon most in ratio with that in your deck (so let's say you have 20 basic pokemon, 60 cards, it will prefer a hand with 2 basic pokemon in 6 cards).

 

Note that you can still Mulligan this way, it just reduces RNG, frustration, and speeds up the game without giving information to the opposing player (no mulligan, no info).

 

And in case people wonder, I know this is different from tournaments, but why couldn't the online version be? It's not like you can print your online collection to participate in offline tournaments (which would be awesome actually).

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OrigBitmancer

4. Although this strategy makes a little sense, PTCGO cannot do that hand choice function. That is also like in M:tG getting two mana in your opening hand. Not a random occurrence.

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BowserLuigi

^ Btw PTCGO aims to emulate the real life PTCG. It doesn't want to reduce RNG. Less mulligans = less chance opponent gets extra cards = inconsistent with the real life game

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harshu

^ Btw PTCGO aims to emulate the real life PTCG. It doesn't want to reduce RNG. Less mulligans = less chance opponent gets extra cards = inconsistent with the real life game

RNG in real life can as such never be implemented in computer games. It has always failed and will fail until computers finally learn the ability to choose (which hasn't happened till now).

 

Computers work on algorithms and will keep working according to them. All we do is add little disruption from various errors in those algorithms to generate randomness. However, it still can't be random like real world.

 

This by no means is to say that RNG is wrong or something, its just and never will be the same as randomness in the real world..

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SuperStone

RNG in real life can as such never be implemented in computer games. It has always failed and will fail until computers finally learn the ability to choose (which hasn't happened till now).

 

Computers work on algorithms and will keep working according to them. All we do is add little disruption from various errors in those algorithms to generate randomness. However, it still can't be random like real world.

 

This by no means is to say that RNG is wrong or something, its just and never will be the same as randomness in the real world..

I mean, you're not wrong, but the software is good enough that it would be virtually impossible to notice the difference.

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harshu

I mean, you're not wrong, but the software is good enough that it would be virtually impossible to notice the difference.

Well, to be honest we can't notice it, but if you ask maths professors and probability experts, its a big difference. Yet there is no point in pointing out this, as it it is equal to every player.

 

Its like crushing all the players with bad luck and giving out too much good luck to all players equally. But it is different from real world.

 

If you do wish to identify some little differences here are some basic tests/articles -

 

 

Just if you want to check out, make a deck with 20 basic pokemon, 20 trainers, 20 energies. You will still find mulligans in multiple games like much more than what happens in real life. But again happens to everyone equally.

 

Or even simpler task, just find an RNG program online and ask it to generate numbers between 1 to 5. You will be surprised how many times it repeats it answer...

 

Or if you are a book-worm guy, just read Pseudo-randomness in computers - yes they do say its virtually impossible to identify the pattern, but maths experts do say, even then its not similar to real world !

 

 

 

Sorry for deviating from the topic :(

 

 

As for the suggestions -

 

Just remove all animations and make this game like it was 3 years ago. Plain simple playing with cards, like we do in "REAL WORLD" ...

 

I think everyone would agree with that..

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SandaledOtter
Just if you want to check out, make a deck with 20 basic pokemon, 20 trainers, 20 energies. You will still find mulligans in multiple games like much more than what happens in real life. But again happens to everyone equally.

 

Someone made this claim a while back, so I actually DID try it.

 

They claimed I'd have mulligans within 10 (I think it was 7) games. I played over 40 without a mulligan before stopping.

 

The "1-5" test? that's just a waste of time, it doesn't show anything. Your "surprise" is just a lack of knowing what randomness is.

 

What the 20-Basic test is doing is the equivalent of rolling six 3-sided dice and looking for a result that doesn't include a 1. Try that with real dice.

Edited by SandaledOtter
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harshu

Someone made this claim a while back, so I actually DID try it.

 

They claimed I'd have mulligans within 10 (I think it was 7) games. I played over 40 without a mulligan before stopping.

 

The "1-5" test? that's just a waste of time, it doesn't show anything. Your "surprise" is just a lack of knowing what randomness is.

 

What the 20-Basic test is doing is the equivalent of rolling six 3-sided dice and looking for a result that doesn't include a 1. Try that with real dice.

Going off-topic again, read spoiler if interested. I apologize again ! :(

 

 

 

Did you ever had a double mulligan or a triple mulligan in the same game for that 20 basic deck, happened to me 2-3 times in 100 games..

 

And if you are saying that I don't know what randomness is, then I must point out that you are totally wrong in comparing a 3-sided dice roll and a 20 basic deck mulligan.

 

This is because - simply, you draw 7 cards out of 60 and in those 7 you don't need any of the 20 cards out of 60 that are basic. In a 3-sided dice roll, you are comparing it with drawing 20 cards and looking for none of the them to be basic 20 cards and be other 40 cards..

 

Please do look into your mistake, I am sure you will find it interesting how randomness actually works and how probability really works in real world. (This wasn't at all intended to offend you, sorry for my language, didn't know how to put it other way)

 

As for my "surprise" being oblivious to the randomness knowledge, I never said that the computer don't generate random things, I said that their randomness isn't the same as randomness in the real world. Neither did I said it was broken or something, all I said it was different and this isn't me speaking without base. You can search endless articles on pseudo-randomness which proves my point !

 

Nonetheless, this post was written in all politeness, please do not get offended by it.

 

Edit - For the 3-dice roll, moreover, you cannot have mixed outcomes, meaning either the 20 cards can be trainers, or energies or all of them can be basic. While shuffling in a deck, you only need to have all 7 cards to be not out of those 20. Its a very complex probability and although I have pure numbers, I am reluctant to call them 100% correct as it is a big chance that I might have approximated 2-3 situations in hurry..

 

 

 

Edit - If interested, we can continue this in private messenger, since its deviating the topic and occupying forum spaces :)

Edited by harshu

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SandaledOtter

Did you ever had a double mulligan or a triple mulligan in the same game for that 20 basic deck

 

Edit - If interested, we can continue this in private messenger, since its deviating the topic and occupying forum spaces :)

 

No, I never had any mulligans in over 40 games with 20 basics, and then stopped because I had disproven the claim made several times over. I mean, I could recreate such a deck and post a video of the initial draws, but... meh.

 

And on the dice... sorry, I was tired and thinking 6 cards instead of 7, but the numbers are still numbery.

 

I've no interest in a PM, as that would need to be done for every person who ever had an interest in it. Another post would make more sense.

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grommpy

Yeah i've noticed this obligation for the Pokemon Online TCG team to stay as true to the offline card game as possible. It's ok. It just means it will never really compete with Hearthstone, Magic TG, etc. where games are faster and more user friendly.

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SuperStone

Yeah i've noticed this obligation for the Pokemon Online TCG team to stay as true to the offline card game as possible. It's ok. It just means it will never really compete with Hearthstone, Magic TG, etc. where games are faster and more user friendly.

It doesn't really have to compete with them.  The game is sustained much more by long-time pokemon fans and people who just like the way it plays than by attracting existing TCG players.

 

There is certainly some streamlining that could be done here- especially with animations on cards like Blatoise BCr (which have been changed time after time and never to a solution).  But TPCi sees little reason to do, because they know their playerbase- they think none of us are going to quit because of clunky interfaces or immoral marketing actions.

 

Which is really annoying.  Especially since it's true.  -_- 

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