Jump to content

How can we improve play testing?


  • Please log in to reply

13 November 2018 - 10:43 PM

#1

kevster888

    Novice Trainer

  • kevster888
I've been getting more into the TCG Online recently, creating new decks on the cards I have and trying to find which one is the right for me. Since I've been planning to get out and play more of the game in real life, making a good Standard deck has been a priority of mine. What, may I ask, is one of the most integral parts of deck-building in ANY card game? Play testing. It is in this area that I think the TCG Online could use major improvement for the sake of our sanity!

I'd like to create an example on why this is. Let's say we are building a Standard deck that is heavy on metal-type Pokémon. Of course, they are weak to fire types, and we'd like to make sure we'll be fine should we find ourselves facing a fire-type deck. So, we make our way over to Versus mode and search for a Standard match. We're not going to hope to get one on our first try, obviously. It IS a random search, after all. This match will still help us out in testing what we need to improve in our deck, so that's good. Now, let's say we're fighting a meta deck. For this example, we will use a run-of-the-mill Garchomp/Cynthia deck. We get some bad draws, and end up losing early. No big deal, let's just go into another match. Hmm, it's another Garchomp deck. Well, they're meta decks for a reason, we can get better draws and take 'em down! Or not. We've gotten bit by the bad luck bug again. Time for another match... this deck again? This is getting old. Let's just try to get some good-- uh oh, this starting hand is no good whatsoever. Suppose we might as well concede now. Come on now, let's see some fire decks... REALLY? Let's just not bother and hope-- okay, no. This has gone far enough. Sorry bud, we're not doing this again.

So now what? We're sick of Standard, so why not try Expanded? Yeah, you're running a Standard deck, you'll be against strategies that combine both old and new cards, but with so many different cards to choose from in Expanded, a fire deck is bound to appear, and we'll be free from-- HUH? Someone's brought their Garchomp deck here! They've got deck share on, might as well look after we lose... hmm? They're not running any Expanded cards either! It seems that they're escaping the meta decks of Standard as well!

Thus is the dilemma that we face when we play test our decks through the TCG Online's Versus mode! Sure, you can duel the AI to test a deck, but that's not the same when compared to playing against another person. Unfortunately, we're stuck with meta decks we don't want to face anymore in Standard, and they re-appear in Expanded when others get the same idea to try and ditch the meta decks, even though some of them are running Standard meta decks in there themselves! This has been pestering me ever since I started playing again, and I know the whole "meta decks don't go away because they're meta dude" speech constantly goes around, but when I need to know how my deck fares against another, the convenience of checking it in the TCG Online is diluted heavily by the matchmaking.

What can we do? There are several solutions that could be implemented separately or together that would make play testing a deck against a certain other kind much less of a headache.

1. Add filters for matchmaking. For instance, if a player wanted to be against a fire deck, they can just turn on an option in the menus and be faced against opponents running fire-type Pokémon. Allowing players to only choose one type at a time would be optimal, as if we go too far with this filter, the matchmaking could take serious damage, and players running meta decks would never get a match. They're players too!

2. Make Expanded decks have more Expanded cards! In my opinion, people shouldn't be allowed to head into Expanded with deck that have ONLY Standard cards, but we can't just force them to put just one card that isn't legal for Standard, though! That would make it much too easy for people to sneak Standard decks in. I'd suggest that the limit should be at least 10 cards not legal for Standard. Maybe 15 would be better, but putting too strong a vice on people's Expanded decks is the last thing we'd want. I consider Expanded to be my preferred format, as the amount of strategies you can create practically explodes when compared to Standard, and limiting this creativity is not a good thing. Maybe just 5 cards not legal for Standard would be appropriate!

These are just a few suggestions I've come up with, maybe you've got a few to improve this issue. Or perhaps you don't think it's an issue at all? Tell me about it! For me, this is the one thing keeping me from playing the TCG Online, and if you've got no issues with it, I'd like to know why. Maybe if we get some ideas thrown around, we can find a solution that works and influence the developers to address this. Thank you for reading, and have a great day! :)
  • 1

13 November 2018 - 11:08 PM

#2

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

Like you, I would like to playtest at times, without running into standard Garchomp's and expanded Rotom's.  Playing online in the VS Ladder is certainly a different atmosphere than playing in tournaments (or League) in the real world.  There's also the fact, that if we're practicing for real-life play, we may not want to disclose our latest build to everyone.

 

Actually, right now, your only recourse is to find a friend or family member to play against.  These one-on-one battles will force you to play better decks, and you can test against hard matchups (or the meta).

 

Your 2 suggestions won't work.

 

1.  Adding filters to VS play would make the problem much worse, if you think about it.  The players looking to climb the Ladder for points would custom fit their choices for an auto-win.  If they have a Water deck, they also could "choose" to playtest against Fire decks only, right?

 

2.  Standard decks are legal in Expanded tournaments -- plain and simple -- Online or off.

 

In order for this to get better, it's going to take the Developers stepping in, and...

 

(1)  Create a different system in the VS Ladder.  They could add another avenue, more of a ranked system, which would eliminate many of the kids with donk decks.  This has been suggested before, and maybe one day they'll take a serious look.

 

OR

 

(2)  Improve the A.I. features of the game, and make Filters a part of that process.  If there are no points, or freebies involved, I can't see any harm in letting us play against good decks.  Right now, the Test button only helps with basic setup, since they are glorified theme decks that we play against.  Fingers crossed.

 

There may be other options.  Thanks for bringing the discussion to the table.  :)


Edited by RobRatt, 14 November 2018 - 12:00 AM.

  • 1

14 November 2018 - 12:00 AM

#3

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

This was discussed not so long ago in a different thread right here (forums.pokemontcg.com/topic/66117-versus-battle-filters). Unfortunately the OP had no intention of listening to anyone else, but you seem like a more reasonable person so please hear me out.

 

Firstly, I agree with RobRatt on his 2 reasons as to why this cannot be implemented. It wouldn't take much effort for people to exploit the filters and only play advantageous matchups. In the end, everyone who doesn't know about the filter (and specially new players who are still learning the ropes) will end up paying the price of this, since they will be the only ones playing against meta decks and other ones where the matchup is bad for them, while the more experienced players will only be getting easy matchups. And, needless to say, Expanded is literally just an expansion of Standard. I cannot think of any valid reason to exclude Standard cards from Expanded. Also, and I hope you take no offense from this, it's very naive to think that the exact same thing won't happen in Expanded just because there are no Standard cards. Like it or not, a few select decks will always sit at the top of the food chain. Sure, there will be no Garchomp spam in Expanded, but they will just spam a different deck instead, and you'll end up equally sick of facing the same 2 decks over and over again.

 

To Rob's suggestions:

 

1) I think they should facilitate for people to choose their opponents by talking to them first. As in, create lobbies where both players can see what the other will use or at least be able to say "I'm playing X deck, and I'd like to test it agains decks Y, Z, P, and Q. Who wants to play", or something like that. You can already do this (sort of) using the general lobby chat in-game, or finding buddies here in the forums that will help you out, but I think they could improve this by adding a different section (parallel to VS, Events and Trainer Challenge) that uses a user-friendly interface that allows you to find and choose other people to play with. This probably sounds exactly like the "VS Filters" that I say won't work, but it has 2 major differences: 1) There is no randomness, your opponent also has to agree to battle you, which means no farming free wins from noobs that don't know how to filter 2) I wouldn't include this into the VS Ladder, mostly because it's still easy to exploit. Even if you can't just defeat people that don't know how to filter over and over, you could still reach a win-trading agreement which would be just as bad as genting once was (good riddance on that practice btw. I never felt too strongly about it, but it's nice to see it's gone).

 

2) 100% agree on having better AI Trainers. It really shouldn't be that hard to give them decks on par with actual competitive decks and give them a few action patterns based on how real PvP play would go like. Not sure if we can hope much in this regard, but it would be nice for sure.

 

Lastly, although not exactly related to the viability of your suggestion, I very seriously doubt you've seen nothing but Garchomp. You would be surprised to know just how many people fall into confirmation bias, and end up seeing giants when in reality there were just windmills. If we were to make a simple comparation of our 2 personal experiences, I have not seen a single Garchomp in a long time in Standard, and I've seen at most1-2 Garchomps in Expanded since comming back (which is saying a lot because I mostly just spam Night March in Expanded, so I would have noticed a prevalence of Garchomp in there if it existed). I've seen a lot of stuff, including Trevenant, Night March, Gengar-EX, Archie's Blastoise, Wailord Stall, Sableye controll decka, Darkrai EX and GX, among others, but Garchomp I've barely seen at all.

 

Hard data doesn't lie: if you want to, we can both write down (without leaving any data out of course) all of our matchups in our next 30-100 games, and then we compare. If you're down to do this, I'm in. This way you'll know for sure if you're really facing that much Garchomp, or if it was nothing but your impression. There really is no other way to get to the truth of this.

 

On a side note, after playing around with it myself for a while, I think Garchomp is bad. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, that's just my opinion. It feels slow, it's very weak to getting sniped while in the middle of the setup, there's currently a bajillion cards that allow you to search for any card you want in the deck so you can expect to get Guzma'd next turn, you need 2 energy attachments including a DCE while having no reliable Fighting type energy acceleration (which might be better in Expanded but not by much), it has only 160 HP in a meta where most Stage 2 pokemon have 230-250 (it does give only one prize, but power creep means it gets easily OHKO'd by a lot of things with just 160 HP), relies on Cynthia to do any real damage (she's easy enough to search, but using Cynthia means you can't Guzma in the same turn, which means no surprise bench snipes with 200 damage, and you can't use any other supporter either). Lucario helps, but imo it doesn't make up for all of its weaknesses. There are just too many other decks that can do the same amount of damage for less energies, or the same amount of damage for the same amount of energies but have reliable energy acceleration (such as Malamar for psychic decks, for example). Then there are decks that can attack for 1 energy using basic pokemon or stage 1 pokemon, while still giving only 1 prize, and can easily do 190+ damage (Thinking of Night March in Expanded, Lost March and Granbull in Standard. I know Lost March uses a Stage 2, but you don't need to play Jumpluff from the hand and you don't need an extra turn to evolve because of Skiploom's ability. You also save space in Rare Candies because they are useless in Lost March. There are probably others decks too, but this is what I can think of right now).

 

If you don't mind, I'd like to look at your decklist(s), because right now I'm more inclined to thinking that they could use some improvement if you're struggling against Garchomp. Again, this is based on my own opinion that Garchomp is bad (well, it's not garbage, I'll admit that. It's still reasonably good considering how cheap it is [just buy Match Strike twice and you're done deckbuilding], but I think there are too many decks available that fare off better than Garchomp). I do not mean to criticize you or anything, I legitimatly think I/we can help you win the Garchomp matchup with some tips.


Edited by Sakura150612, 14 November 2018 - 12:09 AM.

  • 0

14 November 2018 - 04:49 AM

#4

SandaledOtter

    Elite Trainer

  • SandaledOtter

When I started playing this game, IIRC, the first game I played against another person was an unranked quick match. That option doesn't exist now, if it did back then and I'm not misremembering. I recall I only did it once, then went back to the trainer challenge until my dailies required a human opponent.

 

Certainly, that mode would be the place to do this, if it were part of the game.


"Swishonk!" That's what's happening!

  • 0

14 November 2018 - 06:02 PM

#5

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

I'll adress a couple of points in no particular order.

 

Garchomp and “the meta”

 

The reason why you are seeing an almost insurmountable amount of the same Garchomp deck running around in your ELO range is due to the fact that the deck is incredible cheap to build (you need two Mach Strike Theme decks and already got yourself a decent core) and relatively strong for the price.

You'll see less and less Garchomp the further up the ELO you progress, and subsequently also when you travel down the ladder. Unfortunantely there is no real way around this, so the best advice is probably to start with a deck that has a really good match up against Garchomp (i.e. by utilizing typ advantage) until you reach a point where people start to play top tier and from there on out you can start running your own deck and actually play in an environment where you can test for IRL tournaments.

 

Speaking of “´the meta” it's important to understand that Pokemon TCGO doesn't reflect the real life meta, at least on the ladder. You can get away with pretty risky builds online, because you don't lose anything for losing a match (unless you care about your ELO), thus donk decks and all-in builds with no back up plan are way more common online than in tournaments.

Additionally, due to the BO1 setting, the coin flip can become much more important in online matches, as do the prize cards.

 

A question you actually never considered was this: Which is the best “Fire” deck in Standard right now and how frequent is it represented in the meta ? There is no real point to try and tech against a type if they aren't common (obviously this can shift dramatically when considering a local tournament, where players tend to bring their pet decks, rather than following the meta religiously).

 

Playing a Standard deck in Expanded is like entering a formula one race with a bicycle

 

Seriously, every Expanded palyer would probably be happy upon seeing Standard Garchomp on the opposing side, because this is pretty much a free win. Putting in any arbitrary restriction goes against the very idea of having a bigger cardpool to choose from. If a player deliberately chooses to place shackles around their ankles, why would you enforce a rule to change their decks for the better ?

 

Filters are never a good idea

 

This has been brought up a couple of times in the past (usually to avoid certain cards / archetypes).

The first argument that probably comes to mind is that those systems could be exploited without much effort. You want to test against a certain type, but what would stop me to just filter for opponents against whom I have a type advantage ? Or the other way around: Why would I ever look for an opponent against whom I have a type disadvantage ?

Finding opponents would probably take forever.

 

Additional, how do you determine a Fire type Pokemon in your search engine ? Tapu Lele is in almost every deck, yet would this mean that every deck is considered a Psychic deck (with a Pokemon that can't even attack for weakness) ? What about Octillery or Oranguru ?

There is a reason why deck archetypes evolve around certain cards and not around a specific type.


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

  • 1

14 November 2018 - 09:17 PM

#6

kevster888

    Novice Trainer

  • kevster888
You've all shown me some very good points regarding this, and I'd like to address them.

The new suggestions that have been provided are much better ideas than what I suggested at first, and I'd like to expand upon them. Simply asking to play another deck in an in-game chat lobby seems to be the best one, and in my opinion we should encourage more players to go ahead and ask for a game in the chat if the random matches in Versus won't do, as I've personally only used the chat like three times, haha. The suggestion of improving the AI is another good one but personally I'm scared of what will come of that. The current AI matches in the game are, in my opinion, extremely basic and could be improved in so many ways that I could write another few paragraphs on expanding that area effectively, lol. If a play testing feature existed that let the AI run any deck you've made, then you could simply give the AI a counter deck and see how they do, and allow the player to bump up the difficulty of the AI as they see fit.

As for the Garchomp deck woes, yeah, I didn't really bother too much to hide my desperate struggle with that deck, haha. It's not really been an issue with the decks I've been running in Standard, just a long, painful streak horrendous draw luck that has kept me stuck at the very bottom of the matchmaking ladder for oh so long. It wasn't uncommon for me to run into 3-5 of the same deck (with minor alterations, of course) at a time while during this streak and unfortunately, I don't believe it's too concerned with leaving me. Personally I haven't played or spent too much money on the TCG in general and so forming a good counter to it has been an uphill struggle (and I'm not a fan of Fairy decks, so I don't know any good cheap decks that would help out). Okay, maybe I was exaggerating a little with how often the deck shows up, but I could also go into my woes with the Necrozma/Malamar decks (which oddly enough I'm better against even though there are less of them that show up at the bottom of the matchmaking compared to the Garchomps). I consider myself to be a somewhat experienced player and being stuck against the same decks which many consider to be poor quality is a frustrating experience.

I'm actually curious, now. That proposition on seeing how often they truly appear at the bottom of the matchmaking ladder by recording each match is an interesting idea. I've been slacking on the Versus ladder anyway cause of my horrible RNG streak, lol. I'd like to take you up on your offer! I will record the next 30 games (15 Standard, 15 Expanded) I play and will record which decks I play against and the result of the match. For the purpose of accurate data, I will not be including matches that are ended before any Prize Cards are taken. I'll also be only using one deck, a Standard deck that runs Metal Pokémon, which does fairly well against most opponents. I will list this deck now:

##Pokémon - 13

* 1 Beldum CES 93
* 1 Dialga-GX FLI 82
* 2 Dusk Mane Necrozma-GX PR-SM SM102
* 2 Genesect-GX LOT 130
* 2 Magnemite UPR 80
* 2 Magnezone UPR 83
* 1 Metagross-GX GRI 85
* 1 Solgaleo-GX PR-SM SM16
* 1 Cosmog PR-SM SM42

##Trainer Cards - 34

* 2 Lady FLI 109
* 2 Hau CES 132
* 2 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 4 Metal Frying Pan FLI 112
* 2 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 4 Mt. Coronet UPR 130
* 4 Rare Candy SUM 129
* 1 Ultra Ball SUM 135
* 2 Nest Ball SUM 123
* 2 Cynthia UPR 119
* 2 Field Blower GRI 125
* 2 Enhanced Hammer GRI 124
* 3 Order Pad UPR 131
* 2 Switch CES 147

##Energy - 13

* 13 Metal Energy 8

Total Cards - 60

I will be reporting my recordings back to this post in a day or two. I think I'm having a snow day tomorrow anyway, and now I've got something to do, lol. Thank you all for your suggestions/feedback! I'll be back soon. :)
  • 1

14 November 2018 - 11:13 PM

#7

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

When I saw that you were constantly writing about luck and RNG I somehow knew your deck would look like this :S.


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

  • 0

14 November 2018 - 11:32 PM

#8

WingsofFire1014

    Senior Trainer

  • WingsofFire1014
I think it would be nice for them to make a advanced AI that you can text against. Anything would be better than what the AI is right now.
Try try again. Never ever quit.
  • 0

15 November 2018 - 02:48 AM

#9

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

You've all shown me some very good points regarding this, and I'd like to address them.

The new suggestions that have been provided are much better ideas than what I suggested at first, and I'd like to expand upon them. Simply asking to play another deck in an in-game chat lobby seems to be the best one, and in my opinion we should encourage more players to go ahead and ask for a game in the chat if the random matches in Versus won't do, as I've personally only used the chat like three times, haha. The suggestion of improving the AI is another good one but personally I'm scared of what will come of that. The current AI matches in the game are, in my opinion, extremely basic and could be improved in so many ways that I could write another few paragraphs on expanding that area effectively, lol. If a play testing feature existed that let the AI run any deck you've made, then you could simply give the AI a counter deck and see how they do, and allow the player to bump up the difficulty of the AI as they see fit.

As for the Garchomp deck woes, yeah, I didn't really bother too much to hide my desperate struggle with that deck, haha. It's not really been an issue with the decks I've been running in Standard, just a long, painful streak horrendous draw luck that has kept me stuck at the very bottom of the matchmaking ladder for oh so long. It wasn't uncommon for me to run into 3-5 of the same deck (with minor alterations, of course) at a time while during this streak and unfortunately, I don't believe it's too concerned with leaving me. Personally I haven't played or spent too much money on the TCG in general and so forming a good counter to it has been an uphill struggle (and I'm not a fan of Fairy decks, so I don't know any good cheap decks that would help out). Okay, maybe I was exaggerating a little with how often the deck shows up, but I could also go into my woes with the Necrozma/Malamar decks (which oddly enough I'm better against even though there are less of them that show up at the bottom of the matchmaking compared to the Garchomps). I consider myself to be a somewhat experienced player and being stuck against the same decks which many consider to be poor quality is a frustrating experience.

I'm actually curious, now. That proposition on seeing how often they truly appear at the bottom of the matchmaking ladder by recording each match is an interesting idea. I've been slacking on the Versus ladder anyway cause of my horrible RNG streak, lol. I'd like to take you up on your offer! I will record the next 30 games (15 Standard, 15 Expanded) I play and will record which decks I play against and the result of the match. For the purpose of accurate data, I will not be including matches that are ended before any Prize Cards are taken. I'll also be only using one deck, a Standard deck that runs Metal Pokémon, which does fairly well against most opponents. I will list this deck now:

##Pokémon - 13
* 1 Beldum CES 93
* 1 Dialga-GX FLI 82
* 2 Dusk Mane Necrozma-GX PR-SM SM102
* 2 Genesect-GX LOT 130
* 2 Magnemite UPR 80
* 2 Magnezone UPR 83
* 1 Metagross-GX GRI 85
* 1 Solgaleo-GX PR-SM SM16
* 1 Cosmog PR-SM SM42

##Trainer Cards - 34
* 2 Lady FLI 109
* 2 Hau CES 132
* 2 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 4 Metal Frying Pan FLI 112
* 2 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 4 Mt. Coronet UPR 130
* 4 Rare Candy SUM 129
* 1 Ultra Ball SUM 135
* 2 Nest Ball SUM 123
* 2 Cynthia UPR 119
* 2 Field Blower GRI 125
* 2 Enhanced Hammer GRI 124
* 3 Order Pad UPR 131
* 2 Switch CES 147

##Energy - 13
* 13 Metal Energy 8

Total Cards - 60

I will be reporting my recordings back to this post in a day or two. I think I'm having a snow day tomorrow anyway, and now I've got something to do, lol. Thank you all for your suggestions/feedback! I'll be back soon. :)

I see, I'm glad to know you took me up on my offer xd I'll do the same thing then keeping the same conditions. I can only play on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, so that's when I'll be recording data.

Regarding that cheap fairy deck, I might know just exactly what you need: Granbull from Lost Thunder. It deals 160 damage for a single Fairy Energy, or 190 with a choice band (meaning you OHKO all the Basic GX Pokemon. You also OHKO Grarchomp regardless of whether it's Dragon type or Fighting type, and you have the advantage for being a Stage 1 instead of 2, and needing 2 less energies to attack). The catch to this attack is that you must have no cards in your hand in order to do 160 damage (otherwise it does 30), but it's surprisingly easy to achieve once you know the combo. Using Macargo and Oranguru, in combination with Ultra Balls and Lost Blenders, you can almost always end your turn with 0 cards in your hand while still never bricking since you can chose what you're going to draw with Macargo. I can't give you a list right now since I have no access to my computer, but I basically took the list from YellowSwellow (in a certain popular video streaming site, that cannot be written because the filters are riddiculous xd), and made some modifications to adjust to what I had or to what I felt a little more comfortable with. Not only is the deck cheap (I didn't spend more than 10 packs in total building it, whcih you can earn playing Tournaments, or even just buy codes IRL for about 30 cents each code), it is also very consistent, it destroys Garchomp, and gives a bunch of other decks a run for their money too. I can give you my own list at a later time if you're interested.

As to your decklist, yeah there's a lot of places where it could use improvement. There are some general concepts that help a great deal to build consistent decks. We've posted this in one or two other threads in reference to other specific deck lists, but I'll try to summerize the basic things you need for your deck:

1) Your choice of Pokemon has to be centered around a clear strategy. This usually means having a main attacker, your main supporting pokemon that help your main attacker, and then only a few copies of tech Pokemon (meaning Pokemon you will only use on very specific situations, so it's ok if you take only 1 of each). In your case, it would seem that your strategy is to power up Dusk Mane Necrozoma-GX using Solgaleo GX, Magnezone and Metagross-GX to do the powering up. But considering this strategy, you have somewhat of a problem in the distribution of your cards:

  • First and foremost, you are using 1-0-1 lines of Metagross-GX and Solgaleo-GX. Runing a 2-0-2 line of Magnezone is only slightly better, but it's still a problem. Generally speaking, the only times it's ok to run only 1 of a Pokemon, is when it would be a tech basic pokemon. For a Stage 1 it's aready a problem using only a 1-1 line, because you have a non-insignificant chance of having either one in the prizes, making the other card effectively useless and well as preventing you from using them when you needed them. So, even for a support Pokemon, you would normally want to have a 2-2 line. Garchomp does this with Lucario, any deck using Macargo does this too, BKT Octillery used to do the same when it was a thing, Zoroark-GX also does the same in non-Zoroark decks (you would use 4-4 in a Zoroark-GX centered deck). Now, this is all talking about Stage 1 Pokemon; using a 1-1-1 line of Stage 2 Pokemon is really unadvisable even if you have Rare Candies to skip the Stage 1. You have a significant chance of prizing one of them and a low chance of pulling all the 3 cards when you need them (the 3rd card being either the Stage 1 or the Rare Candy). And then, there's running a 1-0-1 line. It honestly doesn't get much more inconsistent than that. You can confirm this with me, but my guess is that you don't manage to get Solgaleo-GX or Metagross-GX into play very often. Magnezone probably doesa little better since you're using a 2-0-2 line, but having 0 copies of the Stage 1 is still unadvisable. There will be turns where you can't Rare Candy, so you're better off evolving to Stage 1 and changing your hand with something like Cynthia. I think that the bare minimum you should take for a Stage 2 line is a 2-1-2 line if you're pressed for space, maybe even 3-1-3 or 3-2-3. Of course, if you do this for your 3 Stage 2 Pokemon you will brick your deck, which leads us to the next point:
  • You're using too many different Stage 2 Pokemon. Imo, using anything more than 2 Stage 2 lines really hurts your consistency. Personally, I'd use Magnezone as your main energy accelerator with a 3-1-3 line, and then choose either Solgaleo-GX or Metagros-GX. I think 3-1-3 would be fine for the one you pick, but maybe 2-1-2 is good enough. And, this is assuming you want to run 2 Stage 2 supporting pokemon. Sticking to just a 3-1-3 Magnezone line would probably be better.
  • Since Dusk Mane Necrozoma-GX is your main way of dealing damage, you probably want to up the number to either 3 or 4.
  • Likewise, you might want to axe the 2 Genesect-GX and the Dialga-GX. This is just my opinion though, maybe you can get away with having them, but I would personally leave only the lone Dialga-GX at most.
  • You probably can't afford a Tapu Lele-GX right now, but consider getting one eventually. It really helps with consistency.
  • Something I saw in a list somewhere else was Ribonbee (the one with Honey Gather). Since you're accelerating energies from the hand, it has good synergy with the deck.

2) Trainers. You need a solid line of draw supporters to make a deck consistent. I would up the 2 Cynthias to 4 and replace the 2 Hau with 2 or 3 Lillie. The "draw 3 cards" trainers will always will be somewhat of a noobtrap unfortunately. They're good enough in Theme Decks, but they're generally bad in Standard and Expanded decks (leaving aside exceptions where you want to stack cards in your hand, but for the most part Hau/Tierno/Cheren is just bad straight up). Besides those cards, running 1 Judge (maybe even 2) is good for disruption, specially against Sylveon-GX and Metalgross-GX (imagine how sad it must be too use Algorithm-GX, only to get Judge'd immediatly after xd). Although it does end your turn, Steven's Resolve is really good for setting up.

Using Lady is fine I think, but you could consider using 1 Fisherman as well (same effect from from the discard pile). Also, you MUST use Guzma, ideally 2 or 3 copies. 1 is too little and 4 is overkill imo. Guzma is simply too impactful to not use, as was the case with Lysandre for a long time.

Ultra Ball is a must at 4 copies, and that is also the case for several decks. You could up the number of Nest Balls to 3. Timer Balls are cool, but do keep in mind that 25% of the times you will get 2 talis, which is actually a lot, and it will be very frustrating when it does happen even if you know that it's statistically correct. Not saying they're bad, but you will be increasing the luck factor a little since Timer Ball can (and will) fail you at critical moments sometimes.

Metal Frying Pan won't do much of anything for you. If I were you, I would axe all 4 of them, and take 2-3 Choice Bands instead.

3) Energies: you do want a lot of energies in this deck since you're accelerating from the hand, but 13 might be a tad too much. The list I searched had 10 Metal Energies and 1 Beast Energy, which seems fine to me.


I was thinking of giving you my own list for this deck based on my own suggestions, but to be frank with you I alsmost never use decks with Stage 2 pokemon and neither do I use any Metal decks. I would also be giving you something that hasn't been playtested. So instead, I'm just copying over a list I found on a Tube (you know which one) so you can use it as a reference.

Pokemon (17):
>Dusk Mane Necrozoma-GX x3
>3-0-3 Magnezone line
>2-2 Ribombee line
>Tapu Lele-GX x3
>Stakataka-GX x1

Trainers (32):
>Cynthia x4
>Lillie x3
>Guzma x3
>Judge x1
>Fisherman x1
>Steven's Resolve x2
>Ultra Ball x4
>Nest Ball x4
>Rare Candy x4
>Energy Retrieval x1
>Mt. Coronet x3
>Choice Band x2

Energy (11)
>Metal Energy x10
>Beast Energy x1

Changes I would do to this list to adapt it:

  • If you don't already have the 3 Tapu Lele-GX, I'd probably get 1 at most and get more later, because it's super expensive even after being reprinted. Other than Oranguru and/or Macargo, I can't think of anything else that would get you out of a dead hand as well as Lele, but those are cheaper alternatives for now.
  • I would run a 3-1-3 Magnezone line rather than 3-0-3. I think you're not sacrificing much space, and in exchange you get a different play you can make that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise (evolving to Stage 1 if you're missing the Rare Candy, the Magnezone, and have no way of finding the missing one or both even).
  • Having 2 Field Blower like in your original list would still be good I think. You can't get rid of tools otherwise.
  • Like I said, keeping 1 Lady would still be good.
  • You don't have a whole lot of discard in this deck, but having 1 Pal Pad could make a difference in the late game. Having 3 is definetely too much though, 1 is sufficient.

I don't know how many of these changes you can make with your current budget, but the main things you must do is clean up your Pokemon list (either 3-1-3 or 3-0-3 Magnezone, 3 or 4 Necrozoma, no Solgaleo-GX and no Metalgross-GX, no Genesect-GX and possibly no Dialga-GX), secure a strong Trainer lineup (Cynthia x4 and Lillie x3 for sure, eliminate extra fluff like Frying Pan, Use 4 Ultra Balls instead of 1, and you MUST include 2 or 3 Guzma), and reduce energies to only 11 (although that isn't too big of a change compared to your current list).

On a sidenote, I might be going too ham on the Walls of Text as of late xd If these are becoming a pain to read, just let me know and I'll give you a TL:DR version.


Edited by Sakura150612, 15 November 2018 - 02:54 AM.

  • 1

15 November 2018 - 11:41 AM

#10

kevster888

    Novice Trainer

  • kevster888
Ugh. You know what, you're right. I'm just going to go through all my cards and see what I can make. I don't know HOW I haven't gotten a Lele GX on TCG Online when I have opened TWO in real life :/

Yeah, so about that chart. I'm just going to scrap it and check what I can do with my cards now and post a new deck list here. At least I know I can DO something about this "bad luck" I've been stuck with, and I'm not going to be forced to stay at the bottom of the matchmaking.

That idea of AI improvements would really help right about now...

Anyways, thanks for going over my situation and giving me some pointers. I've been playing the Pokémon video games less and less, and if I'm going to get entirely serious about the TCG, these are things I need to know. Thank you again!
  • 0

15 November 2018 - 12:52 PM

#11

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Ugh. You know what, you're right. I'm just going to go through all my cards and see what I can make. I don't know HOW I haven't gotten a Lele GX on TCG Online when I have opened TWO in real life :/

Yeah, so about that chart. I'm just going to scrap it and check what I can do with my cards now and post a new deck list here. At least I know I can DO something about this "bad luck" I've been stuck with, and I'm not going to be forced to stay at the bottom of the matchmaking.

That idea of AI improvements would really help right about now...

Anyways, thanks for going over my situation and giving me some pointers. I've been playing the Pokémon video games less and less, and if I'm going to get entirely serious about the TCG, these are things I need to know. Thank you again!

No problem :) If you need further advise feel free to ask as many times as you want.

 

I'm curious about 1 thing though. Did you join the TCGO recently? I'm curious to know if you're familiar with the card/pack market online. You can ignore this if you already know, but posting it just in case. IRL you'd want to open your packs for sure (not like you can do anything else with them, pardon the captain obvious moment here xd), but online it's better if you don't open your tradable packs (meaning all the ones you obtained from reedeming codes and all the ones you earn playing tournaments). In this game, packs are basically the standard currency among players (or money, if you will). Usually, the best and safest way to obtain any card you want is to trade your packs for cards, rather than opening the packs yourself. For example, if you wanted to obtain a Tapu Lele-GX, it would be more cost efficient to trade 16 Guardians Rising packs for a Tapu Lele-GX than it would be to open 16 GUR packs, where you have a high chance of not pulling a singe Lele. Each pack and card has a different value; if you're curious about that, you can search for OU7CAST's card price guide in gooogle.

 

That aside, if there's any card in particular that you need (that isn't a Tapu Lele-GX because I'm not that rich xd), I can probably help you obtain it. I wouldn't mind giving you some packs, or their equivalent in cards, to help you get started. You can go ahead and send me a friend request in-game, and I'll get to you when I login to play this weekend. You can also go check out Watto's Junk Yard in the Trading section of the forum; there they help people grab some good staple cards and other things you might need to get started.


Edited by Sakura150612, 15 November 2018 - 01:05 PM.

  • 0

15 November 2018 - 01:00 PM

#12

SandaledOtter

    Elite Trainer

  • SandaledOtter

Ugh. You know what, you're right. I'm just going to go through all my cards and see what I can make. I don't know HOW I haven't gotten a Lele GX on TCG Online when I have opened TWO in real life :/

 

If you like, you could just attribute that to the difference between RL's unknown distribution of cards and Online's random selection of cards.

 

RL, of course, prints a limited number of each card and then assembles packs based on rarity. I expect they have a computer with an algorithm to determine what goes into each booster.

 

Online uses a simpler pack generator, where each deck is assembled by having a routine that says

  1. pick a card from the list of rares, weighted to the less rare.
  2. pick a card from the list of basic energies.

... and so on. While any given pack online is just like a physical one, you can't buy a box and guarantee an SR, or whatever the real world ratios give you.

:D

 

On the other hand, you could just call it bad luck. I have 3 Lele-GXs, with one regular art coming from a locked booster, 1 full art coming from a trade when I needed the second, and 1 FA actually being, for me at least, an incidental trade, where I traded something really good that I had too many of with the intent of getting something else I needed, and the Lele being the balance of the offer. (For the other party, it was certainly the other way around!)

 

In any case, opening packs just isn't likely to get you what you want. Try to avoid it.


"Swishonk!" That's what's happening!

  • 0

15 November 2018 - 03:01 PM

#13

kevster888

    Novice Trainer

  • kevster888
Haha, thank you for asking, but I'm not new, just a little rusty with this game. I've been playing back once the Black & White days and have never really put too much focus into the TCG or TCG Online until now. I've been trying to find a deck that is both reliable and something I can create from what I already have, and I think I have something here.

##Pokémon - 17

* 1 Oranguru SUM 113
* 3 Bulbasaur SLG 1
* 2 Fomantis SUM 14
* 2 Treecko LOT 20
* 2 Grovyle LOT 21
* 2 Ivysaur SLG 2
* 2 Lurantis-GX SUM 15
* 1 Sceptile CES 10
* 2 Venusaur SLG 3

##Trainer Cards - 32

* 2 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 2 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 3 Choice Band GRI 121
* 3 Rare Candy SUM 129
* 2 Judge FLI 108
* 3 Cynthia UPR 119
* 2 Field Blower GRI 125
* 3 Guzma BUS 115
* 3 Sightseer LOT 189
* 4 Net Ball LOT 187
* 2 Energy Retrieval SUM 116
* 1 Life Forest {*} LOT 180
* 2 Switch CES 147

##Energy - 11

* 11 Grass Energy 1

Total Cards - 60

I'm unsure of what this deck needs to have and what it doesn't. It's been performing very well in my recent matches. I have a good amount of the cards needed to build it IRL, but I'm gonna need to buy some Guzmas cheap cause I never pulled one (despite one of my few Elite Trainer Boxes being Burning Shadows... how did that happen?) and maybe some GUR packs for online? 16 packs for one card is a little tight but I think I can get at least one Lele-GX to use online. I love the trading feature on here but sometimes I just don't know the prices, lol. I'm also planning on getting a few Lurantis (SM25) cards to make this deck even more powerful, as I found that it has a bit of trouble once its main attackers are defeated. I've also debated swapping the Lurantis-GX cards to have more of the Sceptile line in, but I think two is enough (and I also don't own any Lurantis-GX and getting CES Sceptiles is easy cause of its theme deck). Where do I go from here?
  • 0

15 November 2018 - 07:11 PM

#14

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Hmm, this deck looks more solid than the previous one. I would make certain adjustments, but overall it seems you've got the right idea. Some points you could consider:

 

1) Probably the biggest change you should make imo, is to focus your deck around the Sceptile. I think Sceptile should be the main attacker in this deck, since it can quickly stack damage thanks to Venusaur. In that sense, a 2-2-1 line won't cut it. In decks where a stage 2 is my main attacker, I typically run a 4-2-4 line. It may be fine to go 3-1-3 might be fine too, but being the main piece of this deck 4-2-4 would be better. It's your only attacker that can OHKO your opponent's GX Pokemon without having to use a GX attack too, and the immunity to Ultra Beasts is a very nice side bonus. So, I think 4-2-4 can be justified.

 

2) 3-2-2 for Venusaur could be fine, but I would suggest that you try 3-1-3 instead (same number of Pokemon cards). Not that big of a change, but it could help.

 

3) 2-2 Lurantis-GX looks good to me. You could, if you wanted to, include Shuckle from LOT as well. It does the exact same thing (attach 2 energies from the discard pile) while having the added benefit of discarding energies from your deck when benched. Being a basic pokemon means you can attack on your first turn, and being a non-GX means it only gives 1 prize. The big disadvantage to Shuckle though, is that it only has 60 HP, so literally everything KOs it in one hit. You could consider testing this card, but it's definetely not essential that you include it. (although, even if you never attack with it, you could make use of its ability regardless, so that your Lurantis-GX actually has some energies it can retrieve from the discard).

 

4) Having no Lele, Oranguru is what you'd want as a replacement imo. If you could get a 2nd Oranguru though that would be very helpful, since you run a 10% chance of prizing any given card in any given game.

 

5) Your draw supporters are looking better for sure. The only minor thing I'd change is to play all 4 Cynthias instead of 3. Cynthia is basically your strongest and most standard way of refreshing your hand, so having 4 vs having 3 could make a difference.

 

6) 11 energies looks good to me, but the final energy count will always depend on your own fine tuning in the end. If after several games you feel 1 more would make a difference you could try 12 energies, for example. The one thing you do want to keep in mind though, is that the critical mass for this deck is 4 energies attached at the same time (since, combined with Venusaur and a Muscle Band, that gives you exactly 190 damage, which will KO pretty much anything that isn't a Stage 2 GX). 

 

EDIT: For whatever reason, I was under the impression that you needed 8 energies + muscle band for a OHKO, when it's actually  just 4 (with Venusaur they count as 8, and Sceptile does 20 damage per energy). This deck actually stacks damage pretty fast, but for it to flow you definetely want to focus on getting out a Venusaur and a Sceptile ASAP.

 

You could also consider using 2 or so Exp. Share (you'd have to test if that bricks your deck or not, but if it doesn't hurt your draws too much, Exp. Shares have potential to be good since you're keeping your energies on the board for more damage).


Edited by Sakura150612, 15 November 2018 - 08:12 PM.

  • 0

15 November 2018 - 10:14 PM

#15

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

Ugh. You know what, you're right. I'm just going to go through all my cards and see what I can make. I don't know HOW I haven't gotten a Lele GX on TCG Online when I have opened TWO in real life :/

Hey, I did the exact opposite from my GRi codes!  :lol: Wanna trade?

 

That is unlucky, of course, but hey, I'd take real cards over digital ones any day.

 

Anyways. :) This looks like a deck that could possibly benefit from Elm's Lecture, maybe two or three of them.  Without Lele, though, I'm not sure it's worth it, as you probably only want to play him T1. -------- I agree with Sakura that a few Lillie would be good.  They're extremely powerful if you can open with them, and not bad in the late-game. --------- Acro bike is always something to consider.  In this deck, it might do more harm than good, but keep it in mind.


Edited by SuperStone, 17 November 2018 - 06:45 PM.

The truth waits for no one.  That which you refuse to see, TPCi, slips past you.  The chat function was never your problem, yet through your blindness, you have made it one.

  • 0

17 November 2018 - 04:58 AM

#16

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Alright, I have something interesting for you. After realizing the synergy between Venusaur and Sceptile from reading your list, I decided to give it a try myself. This is what I came up with:

 

****** Pokémon Trading Card Game Deck List ******
 
##Pokémon - 25
 
* 1 Ditto {*} LOT 154
* 2 Bulbasaur SLG 1
* 2 Fomantis SUM 14
* 1 Shuckle LOT 16
* 4 Treecko LOT 20
* 4 Grovyle LOT 21
* 2 Ivysaur SLG 2
* 2 Lurantis-GX SUM 15
* 4 Sceptile CES 10
* 2 Venusaur SLG 3
* 1 Tapu Lele-GX GRI 60
 
##Trainer Cards - 26
 
* 4 Cynthia UPR 119
* 2 Lillie SUM 122
* 4 Net Ball LOT 187
* 4 Ultra Ball SUM 135
* 3 Apricorn Maker CES 124
* 2 Guzma BUS 115
* 2 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 2 Exp. Share SUM 118
* 1 Life Forest {*} LOT 180
* 2 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
 
##Energy - 9
 
* 1 Super Boost Energy {*} UPR 136
* 8 Grass Energy  1
 
Total Cards - 60
 
****** Deck List Generated by the Pokémon TCG Online www.pokemon.com/TCGO ******
 
This deck still needs a lot of work, mind you, but even if it isn't the most consistent deck out there I have to admit it's pretty fun.
 
Having a ton of Pokemon and running multiple evolution lines does lead to bricking sometimes, but it's still somewhat consistent. The first thing I realized when playing this though, was that it actually doesn't work all that well with Rare Candies, surprisingly enough for a a double Stage 2 deck. The Grovyle is just too good, it reminds me of when I used to play Garchomp in Legacy. The idea is to set up as many Treeko's as possible turn 1 (as well as a bulbasaur), and on turn 2 by getting a single Grovyle you get a chain going. You use Grovyles ability to evolve all of your Treekos and your Bulbasaur to Ivysaur (or a Fomantis to a Lurantis-GX if needed). Ideally you open the game with either Fomantis or Ditto so that you can attack turn 2 with Lurantis-GX, but that's just luck whether it happens or not. The one Shuckle is to discard 2 energies for Lurantis-GX's attack. Once you get going, on Turn 3 you should already be OHKO'ing everything. The Super Boost Energy doesn't count as 8 energies with Venusaur, but it's still an instant +80 damage that you can use later into the game. The Exp Shares are to keep your energies on the board.
 
This is a very slow deck, but it's satisfying to play when it works. Like I said though, it still needs a lot of work. I'd like to fit in some Prof Elms for the T1 setup, but as you can see this deck is very tight in space, and if I can't get the Elm on T1 it's not going to be nearly as useful mid to late game. I've really felt the need of the Field Blowers too, but again, I'm having a hard time making space. This is probably one of the most tight decks I've tried to play.
 
You can probably still do something similar to this and remove the Tapu Lele-GX, it's not that important in this deck.
 
EDIT: I just realized I have 25 Pokemon in this deck xdd Yeah, it's definitely a bit clunky, but it's fun to play regardless.

Edited by Sakura150612, 17 November 2018 - 05:10 AM.

  • 1

19 November 2018 - 08:33 PM

#17

kevster888

    Novice Trainer

  • kevster888
Yeah, Shining Legends Venusaur is my favorite Standard card for a good reason, haha. I've made improvements to my deck, and it's working pretty well. Gonna post my updated deck list now, wanted to give it some games to make sure it worked.


##Pokémon - 23

* 2 Oranguru SUM 113
* 3 Bulbasaur SLG 1
* 2 Fomantis SUM 14
* 4 Treecko LOT 20
* 2 Grovyle LOT 21
* 2 Ivysaur SLG 2
* 2 Lurantis-GX SUM 15
* 4 Sceptile CES 10
* 2 Venusaur SLG 3

##Trainer Cards - 26

* 2 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 2 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 3 Rare Candy SUM 129
* 4 Cynthia UPR 119
* 3 Guzma BUS 115
* 3 Net Ball LOT 187
* 2 Exp. Share SUM 118
* 2 Energy Retrieval SUM 116
* 1 Life Forest {*} LOT 180
* 2 Switch CES 147

##Energy - 11

* 11 Grass Energy 1

Total Cards - 60

I've got to agree, this is a very Pokémon-heavy deck to run but with the aid of LOT Grovyle that isn't too much of a problem. I've considered dropping an energy and the Energy Retrievals to throw in a few Field Blowers, Enhanced Hammers, or another LOT Grovyle, but this seems like a healthy balance so far. I've never run Apricorn Maker, but maybe a few would find a good place in this deck. Professor Elm is another interesting one, but LOT Grovyle and Net Ball just seem like better options. Exp. Shares and Switches have saved games with this deck multiple times, and Choice Band on Sceptile has pushed its damage output to a point that I'm happy with. Ditto is another excellent card that I own IRL but not online. In recreating this deck for real-life use, it's definitely going in, along with at least one Lele. Just need to lock down on finding those Lurantis-GX, and grab a few of those Lurantis promo cards to see how well they fare in the deck (and Ditto will help even more in that regard!). I'm going to be actively going through the new versus ladder (premieres in a few hours from this post, haha) with this deck and making improvements as I see fit. I might be posting new deck lists in future forum posts, cause I've got to say, this forum is amazing. I think I'll be spending a lot of time here.
  • 1

19 November 2018 - 09:34 PM

#18

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Yeah, Shining Legends Venusaur is my favorite Standard card for a good reason, haha. I've made improvements to my deck, and it's working pretty well. Gonna post my updated deck list now, wanted to give it some games to make sure it worked.


##Pokémon - 23

* 2 Oranguru SUM 113
* 3 Bulbasaur SLG 1
* 2 Fomantis SUM 14
* 4 Treecko LOT 20
* 2 Grovyle LOT 21
* 2 Ivysaur SLG 2
* 2 Lurantis-GX SUM 15
* 4 Sceptile CES 10
* 2 Venusaur SLG 3

##Trainer Cards - 26

* 2 Rescue Stretcher GRI 130
* 2 Timer Ball SUM 134
* 2 Choice Band GRI 121
* 3 Rare Candy SUM 129
* 4 Cynthia UPR 119
* 3 Guzma BUS 115
* 3 Net Ball LOT 187
* 2 Exp. Share SUM 118
* 2 Energy Retrieval SUM 116
* 1 Life Forest {*} LOT 180
* 2 Switch CES 147

##Energy - 11

* 11 Grass Energy 1

Total Cards - 60

I've got to agree, this is a very Pokémon-heavy deck to run but with the aid of LOT Grovyle that isn't too much of a problem. I've considered dropping an energy and the Energy Retrievals to throw in a few Field Blowers, Enhanced Hammers, or another LOT Grovyle, but this seems like a healthy balance so far. I've never run Apricorn Maker, but maybe a few would find a good place in this deck. Professor Elm is another interesting one, but LOT Grovyle and Net Ball just seem like better options. Exp. Shares and Switches have saved games with this deck multiple times, and Choice Band on Sceptile has pushed its damage output to a point that I'm happy with. Ditto is another excellent card that I own IRL but not online. In recreating this deck for real-life use, it's definitely going in, along with at least one Lele. Just need to lock down on finding those Lurantis-GX, and grab a few of those Lurantis promo cards to see how well they fare in the deck (and Ditto will help even more in that regard!). I'm going to be actively going through the new versus ladder (premieres in a few hours from this post, haha) with this deck and making improvements as I see fit. I might be posting new deck lists in future forum posts, cause I've got to say, this forum is amazing. I think I'll be spending a lot of time here.

Welcome aboard, my friend :) I hope you enjoy your stay in the forums. It's always great to have new members participating here.

 

I think you've reached a pretty good balance in that decklist, too. Actually, I may make some adjustments to my own list based on the one you just posted here. After doing some testing, I agree that running some Rare Candies is necessary after all, because this deck struggles against the more fast-paced ones. So, even though having Grovyles in play is great, you just need to hit the Satge 2 ASAP sometimes. I tried with Prof Elm, but it doesn't pay off after all; it's great if you draw it in your starting hand, but pretty mediocre after than since the only 2 cards you can search with Elm are the Treekos and the Ditto, so by the time you need to search the evolutions it could end up being a dead card. I do think that the 8 energies I'm currently using is somewhat low, so 10 seems like a good number to me. You could still consider the Super Boost Energy since it's like a triple Choice Band (instant +80 damage if you meet its requirements), although admitedly it doesn't make that big of a difference if you don't draw it at the right time.

 

The one thing you might want to tweak though if you're going to use Lurantis-GX though, is that you need a way of discarding energies (since Lurantis-GX attaches from the discard pile). Even a single Shucke LOT would do the trick: you search for it with Net Ball and discard 2 energies for Lurantis-GX to attach.

 

Regarding the Ditto, if you can't find one yourself I can probably give you a hand with that. I found mine for a single GUR pack in the public trades, so I should be able to find another one now that I'm sitting on like 50 LOT packs (I grinded events pretty much all Saturday long xd I had a lot of tickets too so I ended up with more than I needed). So if you can't find one by the weekend, remind me to find you one. You're using 3 separate evolution lines so Ditto is a big help here.


  • 0

21 November 2018 - 07:38 PM

#19

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

I just sent you over a Ditto btw. Feel free to go ahead and take it.


  • 0

22 November 2018 - 04:18 PM

#20

kevster888

    Novice Trainer

  • kevster888
Haha, just noticed now. Been a bit busy playing some good fan games lately so haven't been online in a while. I appreciate the help! Oh, and happy Thanksgiving, lol.
  • 0