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Brigette in current meta


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12 November 2018 - 07:26 PM

#1

KevonG

    Novice Trainer

  • KevonG

Can TCGO devs ban cards? Because I think Brigette is currently too amplified.

 

Brigette was a bit of a problem as soon as GX were released, but I think it's getting arguably worse every expansion. For example I just realized you can bench 3 Stakataka-GX with Brigette, which have stacking buff abilities. I'm glad not many players are playing this right now, but imagine being able to bench 2 Regirock-EX and a prism star Diancie with Brigette. It's just so impactful for a supporter card.

Although I guess people just use Brigette for 2 Buzzwole-GX and Diancie, leaving room in their brooklet hill/ ultra/ nest balls for Regirock so ending up with basically the same ridiculous first turn set up.

 

I use Brigette a lot but I would gladly rework my decks to see this fixed. Pokémon Fan Club still seems like a solid substitute and I think it really matters these days not to give players that 3rd GX set up, especially with cards like Stakataka-GX and others with stacking buffs that may be released in the future.

 

If TCGO devs can't do anything about this I would still like to hear all of your opinions on Brigette.

 


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12 November 2018 - 09:34 PM

#2

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

First, to your question, there does exist a (very small) ban list. I don't know who calls the shots, but it's probably not the TCGO developers. It must be someone from TPCi, and they probably base themselves on the effects that different cards have had in the meta (paying particular attention to real-world tournaments) over time.

However, every card that has been banned has had a very good reason behind it. Lysandre's Trump Card was banned (to my understanding) because it effectively removed a victory condition from the game (decking out), although being able to endlessly recyle your own resources for infinite setup might have had something to do with it. FotGP was probably banned with its interaction with Shiftry (before, Shiftry was the card that was banned. That lasted until they realized that the problematic card was not Shiftry, but FotGP). It seems that TPCi decided that being able to evolve on your first turn (leaving aside the "Assention" attack, since that ends your turn) was a toxic mechanic, since it allowed stuff like T1 Trevenant item lock with a high degree of consistency and zero counterplay if the Trevenant player won the coin flip. Wally must have been banned for the same reason. Getting donked by multiple T1 Decidueyes musn't have been very fun either (speaking about FotGP here), but it was probably the other more problematic interactions that earned it the ban hammer. I do not know the exact reason behind the Hex Maniac ban, but it was probably too strong of a control tool.

For Brigette though, you can't really make a case. Stacking Stakatakas (pardon the lame pun) is nowhere close the "no counterplay" level that T1 Trevenant had. Against Stakataka-GX you can always drop a Silent Stadium, do too much damage for -30 to matter (consider that Choice Band "nullifies" the effect, leaving you at normal damage), use attacks that bypass effects, Guzma-snipe weaker targerts, use controll tools to keep your opponent from attacking (at which point no amount of damage reduction matters), etc. You have to consider that Brigette into 3 Stakataka-GX is a lot of resources commited for a measly -30 damage. Aether Paradise can do that, the upcoming Choice Helmet can do that, some pokemon effects and abilities can do that, and none of those consume your supporter of the turn nor 3 bench spaces. While your opponent only managed to set up 3 beefcackes that do nothing, you're setting upstuff like Macargo, Zoroark-GX, Malamar, Solgaleo-GX, Metalgross-GX, etc. Simply speaking, a mere 30 damage reduction scales poorly into the game if your opponent is instead getting stuff like literally choosing his or her next draw, drawing 2-4 extra cards per turn, having free retreat + effective inmunity to status effects, near infinite energy acceleration, etc.

I'd say that using Brigette for cards like Regirock-EX and Diancie Prism Star is more useful, but it doesn't fare a whole lot better. You're better off burning though your deck quickly with Sycamore, which can potentially give you your 2 Regirocks AND more things at the same time.

There really is no way to justify a Brigette ban no matter how you look at it. I doubt she has any real impact in tournaments either (although you'd have to confirm that with someone else because I almost don't play IRL). For any card to deserve a ban, it must break the game really badly in one way or another, and Brigette doesn't do that.


Edited by Sakura150612, 12 November 2018 - 09:38 PM.

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12 November 2018 - 10:31 PM

#3

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

I seem to do this many, many games....

 

Turn 1 >> Ultra Ball >> Tapu Lele >> Brigette >> 3 Pokémon

 

Across the table, it's almost expected behavior from most opponents too.

 

Whether it's 3 GX's or 3 "standard" Pokémon, I don't see how this mechanic breaks the game.  From what I can tell, they only ban cards that give one player an unfair advantage on Turn 1.  Everybody can, and does use Brigette, equally.  Since if came before their release, Brigette probably wasn't designed with GX's in mind, but it doesn't totally break the game.  The only decks that may have a slight disadvantage (only slight, because there's Fan Club) are the EX only type, but realistically they have a built-in handicap because of the power creep problem (GX over EX).

 

When GX's first came out, I thought they might "amend" Brigette so that it would be "one EX or GX."  But they didn't.  And now, it's become so commonplace that most players, and probably the Staff, have never given it a second thought.


Edited by RobRatt, 12 November 2018 - 10:36 PM.

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13 November 2018 - 02:08 AM

#4

BowserLuigi

    Elite Trainer

  • BowserLuigi
You're giving up a draw support for the turn in exchange for setting up your board. I say that's an equal tradeoff.
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13 November 2018 - 01:54 PM

#5

XK920XK

    Veteran Trainer

  • XK920XK

Can TCGO devs ban cards? Because I think Brigette is currently too amplified.

 

I'm glad not many players are playing this right now, but imagine being able to bench 2 Regirock-EX and a prism star Diancie with Brigette. It's just so impactful for a supporter card.

 

TCGO only temp ban cards due to technical issues. There is a separate rules team that decides card bans. This of course is directly related to the IRL cards and then transfered over to online.

 

Brigette also wont allow you to pull out multiple EX, just one


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13 November 2018 - 06:07 PM

#6

SandaledOtter

    Elite Trainer

  • SandaledOtter

Brigette also wont allow you to pull out multiple EX, just one

 

That's most of the reason people think there's a problem with it, I think. Where new cards say "EX or GX," the pre-GX cards only restrict EX. I expect a new version of Brigette, with a new character or a modifier ( [person]'s [thing] ),would use the EX or GX limitation.


"Swishonk!" That's what's happening!

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13 November 2018 - 08:38 PM

#7

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

That's most of the reason people think there's a problem with it, I think. Where new cards say "EX or GX," the pre-GX cards only restrict EX. I expect a new version of Brigette, with a new character or a modifier ( [person]'s [thing] ),would use the EX or GX limitation.

They could errata Brigette just like they did with Pokemon Catcher though, and make it so it's only 1 GX. I doubt they will, since Brigette is not really problematic regardless, but it's something they could consider doing.


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14 November 2018 - 04:59 AM

#8

SandaledOtter

    Elite Trainer

  • SandaledOtter

They could errata Brigette just like they did with Pokemon Catcher though, and make it so it's only 1 GX. I doubt they will, since Brigette is not really problematic regardless, but it's something they could consider doing.

Yeah, I'm not saying I think it's enough of a problem to warrant that. Just that that's a perception I can understand people having. If you're playing expanded, be prepared to face four or five ultra beasts on turn one. It isn't going away any time soon.


"Swishonk!" That's what's happening!

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17 November 2018 - 03:35 PM

#9

Otakutron

    Senior Trainer

  • Otakutron

Brigette, though I believe it remains a risk for the long term, isn't a major short-term concern for game balance.  See the cards currently on the Ban List for an idea of why she doesn't seem to make the cut. ;)

 

I will point out that I do support Pokémon Card Laboratories creating a catch-all category and keyword for mechanics like Pokémon-EX and Pokémon-GX, implementing it on all future cards, then issuing a mass errata or meta-ruling for all past cards to bring everything in line.  This may sound impossible, but it has actually been done before!

 

You won't find "Items" or "Special Conditions" until some time into the Pokémon TCG's releases, but all old Trainer cards that have either never been released or re-released as Stadium or Supporter cards retroactively became "Item cards", and even when it affected most of the then current cardpool, players had to remember that Poison started shutting off Pokémon Powers the way Confusion, Paralysis, and Sleep always had... and later that all four were now classified as "Special Conditions".

 

So... imagine if a term like "Augmented Pokémon" were coined to cover Pokémon-EX and Pokémon-GX.  Yes, I want them to come up with something better, but I needed to wrap up this post now. ;)  Everyone learns to treat all current cards that talk about Pokémon-EX and Pokémon-GX as reading "Augmented Pokémon" but continuing to work in the same manner, while older card effects that only specified Pokémon-EX are now treated as applying to Augmented Pokémon (Pokémon-EX and Pokémon-GX).  Then, when they introduce the next gimmick like this in however many years it takes, everything is already "future proof" and ready for it.


If you do not have Private Messages enabled, it really limits you in discussing the Pokémon TCG. ;)

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