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TURN ONE WIN - How to win a game before your opponent draws a card using Unown Damage [Expanded]


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10 November 2018 - 12:40 AM

#1

TheMy5teryMan

    Novice Trainer

  • TheMy5teryMan

INTRODUCTION

 

Before we start on this post, I have to mention that this is in no way shape or form my idea. This is a combo that can be easily found online - however, I'm sure there is a large portion of people visiting these forums who exclusively talk here for PTCGO. So I would like to share with you a deck which I've seen make rounds that can potentially give you a turn one win.

 

When Lost Thunder was released, we saw three different Unowns released. Unown HAND, which let you win the game if it was active and you had 35 cards in hand, Unown MISSING, which let you win the game if it was active and your opponent had 12 supporter cards in their lost zone, and Unown DAMAGE, which let you win if it was active and you had at least 66 damage counters on your benched pokemon. While some have tried to do combos with Unown HAND and Unown MISSING, many of those cards are way too reliant on your opponent playing 12 supporter cards, or your opponent not using a Judge. Unown DAMAGE, however, has ways to win that are completely in your control. Here is one of the card combos that can be done to win on the first turn.

 

CARD 1: WAILORD-EX

 

Wailord-EX is probably the most obvious inclusion in this deck. As a basic with a whopping 250 HP, it works great as an HP sponge. The 250 HP is really important, and as you will see later it makes everything work out absolutely perfectly. It does have some downsides - while you aren't usually going to need to retreat with it, the high retreat cost is a bummer. If you don't manage to get the turn one win you will want to attack with Shaymin-EX, and you need to get out of the active position. Float Stone can definitely help with this. 

 

CARD 2: SHAYMIN-EX

 

While we're on the topic of Shaymin-EX, lets talk about the card. Shaymin isn't exactly a new card that hasn't seen play anywhere else. It's a staple in the Expanded format. However, you are going to need MANY different Shaymin-EX to cycle through nearly your entire deck really really fast. It's attack of Sky Return is also helpful for when you can't get the combo on your first turn. This is the kind of deck that you really want to go through nearly every single card that's there. We also won't be able to use a draw supporter on our first turn, since we want to use our supporter to get out Blastoise.

 

CARD 3: BLASTOISE

 

You're going to notice in the final decklist that we play, we won't be playing any of Blastoise's pre-evolutions. That's because we are going to get out Blastoise on our first turn of the game using a combination of Battle Compressor and Archie's Ace in the Hole. Archie's Ace in the Hole allows us to put ANY water pokemon (this includes Blastoise) from our discard pile onto our bench, and then lets us draw 5 new cards. There is a catch, though - Archies has to be the last card in our hand in order to use it. This isn't that much of a problem though, and using Battle Compressor to put Blastoise in our discard, as well as using Tapu Lele-GX (run normal counts) to have another out to it means that we should normally be able to get Blastoise out turn one. So why Blastoise?

 

Well, Blastoise has the amazing ability Deluge. Deluge allows us to attach as many water energies from our hand to any of our pokemon as many times as you like (similar to the Magnezone we have in standard right now). However, this isn't an attacking deck at all - we are aiming for that sweet TURN ONE WIN. So what is Deluge actually used for?

 

CARD 4: FROZEN CITY

 

Many players probably already see how this combo works out. But for those who don't know, let me write it out for you. By using Blastoise's Deluge, we can attach as many energy from out hand to as many pokemon as we like per turn. Frozen City is a stadium card which says that, whenever you attach an energy from your hand to one of your pokemon (excluding team plasma, but that's not relevant), they take two damage counters. By combining Blastoise's Deluge with Frozen City, you can essentially place as many damage counters as you like on your pokemon on the first turn, provided you have enough energy. But at two damage counters a piece, that means you would have to run 33 energy in order to make this work, making the deck horribly inconsistent. So how do we get away with running less than 33 energy?

 

CARD 5: ENERGY RESET

 

Energy Reset is not a very widely played card, but it's a card that allows you to place as many energy from your pokemon as you like back into your hand. This means that, with only 3 energy resets used per turn, you can put 9 energy on your pokemon, back into your hand, onto your pokemon, back into your hand, onto your pokemon, back into your hand, and on to them ONE LAST TIME for a grand total of 68 damage counters. I'm not sure if my math is correct, but I'm pretty sure 68 is at greater than or equal to 66 so Unown Damage is completely fufilled.

 

 

 

So, can you really pull it off? Do you actually have enough damage space for you to be able to do this? A bench of 1 Blastoise, 1 Wailord, and 3 Shaymins is pretty common, and with the amount of damage they can hold:

 

120 + 240 + 100 + 100 + 100 = exactly 660!

 

Remember, you can also play cards such as Tapu Lele-GX to search out Archie's Ace in the Hole, so you will have more than enough damage to be able to pull it off. By using this combination of Energy Reset and Blastoise, you can very easily get the Unown win condition on your very first turn of the game.

 

THE LIST!

 

4 Shaymin EX

1 Exeggcute (Plasma Freeze)

1 Tapu Lele GX

2 Unown Damage

2 Wailord EX

2 Blastoise (Boundaries Crossed)

4 Battle Compressor

4 Bicycle (may seem weird, but you HAVE to go through a large portion of the deck

1 Computer Search

4 Energy Reset

3 Order Pad (simply as another out to Energy Reset)

2 Professor's Letter

2 Recycle (also seems weird, but it's another out to Energy Reset if you've already played one, and it's easily drawn wtih Bicycle, Shaymin, or Trainers Mail

2 Superior Energy Retrieval (using Exeggcute, you only have to really discard 1, and it's great for energies that you have had to discard earlier)

4 Trainers Mail

4 Ultra Ball

3 Frozen City

2 Archies Ace in the Hole

2 Float Stone

11 Water Energy

 

This deck could still use some work, but I think that this deck (which is NOT MINE) is pretty good. What are your thoughts on this combo? Do you think that it needs to be banned? How would you improve my decklist or this post?


  • 2

10 November 2018 - 02:31 AM

#2

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

I don't see it.

 

That's not to say I don't think this is some great deck-building; I hadn't even thought about comboing with frozen city.  But while this is certainly the most competitive unown deck I've yet seen, I seriously doubt it will succeed at the donk game- especially as most decks will bench at least one pokemon from the start these days.


The truth waits for no one.  That which you refuse to see, TPCi, slips past you.  The chat function was never your problem, yet through your blindness, you have made it one.

  • 0

10 November 2018 - 02:43 AM

#3

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

There are two of these Turn 1 (game winning) decks floating in the Internet -- both of them involving the new Unown with damage counters.  Your opponent never even gets a chance to play a turn!!

 

Please, Pokémon Staff, you may want to ban that Unown already.  It's worse than many who've come before.  I know, many won't agree, but we really need to stop this before the expanded Regionals in Anaheim next month.  Who wants to fly across the country, paying for hotels, etc., just to get donked many games before you even have a chance to play?

 

P.S.  @OP, my comment has no bearing on your original post.  Good job informing others.


Edited by RobRatt, 27 November 2018 - 02:20 AM.

  • 1

10 November 2018 - 03:40 AM

#4

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Is this a reliable donk though? I have a feeling that this isn't really that good at donking you turn 1. I can see this getting the 66 counters it needs in few turns, but having 9 energies and 3 energy resets after using Archie seems like it would take a lot of luck. Your entire new hand after using Archie would have to consist of 3 of your 4 energy reset, 2 superior energy retrieval. You can attach the 9th energy before using Archie, but you still have to set up the entire combo (2 Wailord-EX, Frozen City, Unown either as your active or attach a Float Stone to the active), get 2-3 Battle Compressors to discard the energies from your deck, AND set up Archie successfully in your first turn (which won't always happen even on decks where you don't need to dedicate so many resources to setting up something else).

Unless I'm missing something major here, I just don't see this being a good donk deck. Latidonk would do a better job at donking than this imo.


Edited by Sakura150612, 10 November 2018 - 03:40 AM.

  • 0

10 November 2018 - 04:02 AM

#5

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

Is this a reliable donk though?

No, I don't think it's reliably consistent either.  It's one of those ideas with a lot of moving parts.

 

Unlike a Turn 1 donk of a single Pokémon (because you didn't have a 2nd on the bench, etc.), this is a complete game win.  It's never been intended for anyone to get a Turn 1 Win, especially in the real world.  In the Online game, it's painfully slow for them to pull it off, allowing you to concede at any point, and honestly, who really cares.  My concern about this card, and these specific decks, is real-world tournaments, where it actually matters.


  • 0

10 November 2018 - 04:12 AM

#6

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

No, I don't think it's reliably consistent either.  It's one of those ideas with a lot of moving parts.

 

Unlike a Turn 1 donk of a single Pokémon (because you didn't have a 2nd on the bench, etc.), this is a complete game win.  It's never been intended for anyone to get a Turn 1 Win, especially in the real world.  In the Online game, it's painfully slow for them to pull it off, allowing you to concede at any point, and honestly, who really cares.  My concern about this card, and these specific decks, is real-world tournaments, where it actually matters.

Hmm, I see what you mean. Would it be possible for them to ban it only for IRL tournaments? I know the other way doesn't work (banning online something that isn't banned IRL, not counting temporary bans due to glitches), but maybe it would be acceptable to ban something only on real world tournaments.


  • 0

10 November 2018 - 03:03 PM

#7

SuperStone

    Elite Trainer

  • SuperStone

Hmm, I see what you mean. Would it be possible for them to ban it only for IRL tournaments? I know the other way doesn't work (banning online something that isn't banned IRL, not counting temporary bans due to glitches), but maybe it would be acceptable to ban something only on real world tournaments.

C'mon, you know how the game developers work. :P

 

My first post was a little hasty; basically assuming you had to win on the first turn.  I still don't think this deck is going to go very far- even with all the shay support in the world, archie + frozen city for damage is pretty slow.  But being able to stall a bit certainly helps.  If only there were Thank goodness there isn't a way to make Whales fairy-type, so you could use the new Ribombee.  :cool: 


Edited by SuperStone, 10 November 2018 - 05:15 PM.

The truth waits for no one.  That which you refuse to see, TPCi, slips past you.  The chat function was never your problem, yet through your blindness, you have made it one.

  • 0

10 November 2018 - 03:43 PM

#8

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

C'mon, you know how the game developers work. :P

Ah, who do I kid, I knew that it was impossible xd

 

But anyways, I don't think this deck will be a problem online. If it does become a problem in IRL tournaments though, I'd agree to it being banned.


  • 0

05 December 2018 - 09:47 PM

#9

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_
I had to grab my trusty shovel and dig this thread out (lucky it wasn't buried that deep) in order to ask: What happened to the hype train ?

Wasn't this supposed to be the deck that got Shiftry spinning in his grave asking for redemption ? Wasn't this the next emergency ban because the combo was to dangerous to be released in official tournaments ?

You know what happened ? Nothing, because this archetype (no matter which version you play) is the most inconsistent pile of **** I've ever played. It loses to so many different cards, not to mentioned the amount of times you lose against yourself. Even if you get the perfect hand, do you know your reward ? You get to draw a gazillion amount of energy cards back and forth with Blastoise and mind you: since the latest patch oyu have to manually active Blastoise for Every. Single. Energy. Card. I honestly was sometimes about to concede mid combo, because I couldn't take it any more.

Maybe TPCI makes a dumb mistake and creates a reprint of HGSS era Shuckle, but until then I can only say: RIP Combo Hype train.

The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

  • 1

05 December 2018 - 10:07 PM

#10

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

I had to grab my trusty shovel and dig this thread out (lucky it wasn't buried that deep) in order to ask: What happened to the hype train ?

Wasn't this supposed to be the deck that got Shiftry spinning in his grave asking for redemption ? Wasn't this the next emergency ban because the combo was to dangerous to be released in official tournaments ?

You know what happened ? Nothing, because this archetype (no matter which version you play) is the most inconsistent pile of **** I've ever played. It loses to so many different cards, not to mentioned the amount of times you lose against yourself. Even if you get the perfect hand, do you know your reward ? You get to draw a gazillion amount of energy cards back and forth with Blastoise and mind you: since the latest patch oyu have to manually active Blastoise for Every. Single. Energy. Card. I honestly was sometimes about to concede mid combo, because I couldn't take it any more.

Maybe TPCI makes a dumb mistake and creates a reprint of HGSS era Shuckle, but until then I can only say: RIP Combo Hype train.

I guess people just aren't nuts enough to attempt donking decks at big tournaments. I think using stuff like this over any other deck that can't "win turn 1" but can reliably win in any other turn is shooting yourself in the foot. I haven't faced any Unown players in the VS Ladder either, so it must have turned out to be a pretty bad deck for laddering too (like I thought it would). Kinda funny how quickly the hype train derailed and crashed though, gotta agree with that xd


  • 0

05 December 2018 - 11:44 PM

#11

RobRatt

    Elite Trainer

  • RobRatt

I guess people just aren't nuts enough to attempt donking decks at big tournaments.

@Felidae_ may be right.  But there haven't been any big Expanded tournaments since these deck ideas were introduced on the streamer sites a couple weeks ago.  Let's hope they crash and burn, never to be heard from again, but I wouldn't put it past a couple creative builders to try it at Anaheim Regionals the middle of this month.

 

I'll admit, my earlier comment about "possible bans" was probably premature.  Even if they prove to be broken, nothing is going to happen until it breaks real-world games.

 

I've only played against 2 of them on the VS Ladder, and neither caused a single bead of sweat.  They just couldn't pull everything off Turn 1, which is the only real concern.

 

For the one that requires 35 cards in-hand, anything like N or Marshadow just kills it.

 

For the damage counter version, a single Sudowoodo, Parallel City, or anything that limits their bench space stops them from piling on enough damage.


Edited by RobRatt, 06 December 2018 - 08:12 PM.

  • 0

09 December 2018 - 08:58 PM

#12

ajoburegad

    Rookie Trainer

  • ajoburegad

Edited by ajoburegad, 09 December 2018 - 09:00 PM.

  • 0