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Versus Battle Filters


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23 October 2018 - 08:49 PM

#1

TooGhostly

    Rookie Trainer

  • TooGhostly

Hello, I thought of an idea that I think would be very, very useful to some players. Something along the lines of a filter in player vs player. I was thinking, because I'm so beyond sick of seeing Garchomp/Lucario decks 99% of the time I enter a match, what if there were a filter that would skip anyone who has any cards in your filter, and let you play against someone else? I think it would obviously need to have a limit, whether it be 3, 5, or 10 cards allowed in your filter. Not too low though either, because we all know those 4 EX card stalling bot accounts, filtering those out would take up a good bit so maybe 10 would be the best? Imagine that, though. Being able to NEVER see another Guzzlord GX or having to go against a noob who literally can't win a match without a Gardevoir GX. 


  • -2

24 October 2018 - 02:49 AM

#2

XK920XK

    Veteran Trainer

  • XK920XK

with this filter, good players will own all the new players.

 

good players in standard will basically filter out the 4-5 meta decks and they will be matched up to new players who doesnt know what the meta is and didnt filter out the meta cards.

 

if you are playing against a certain deck so much then just play a counter deck to it or tech in cards to counter it.

 

i remember when i first started getting into this game, the deck everyone was playing was decidueye/plume and i just played volcanion, its an easy counter and got many easy wins.


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24 October 2018 - 03:33 PM

#3

TooGhostly

    Rookie Trainer

  • TooGhostly

with this filter, good players will own all the new players.

 

good players in standard will basically filter out the 4-5 meta decks and they will be matched up to new players who doesnt know what the meta is and didnt filter out the meta cards.

 

if you are playing against a certain deck so much then just play a counter deck to it or tech in cards to counter it.

 

i remember when i first started getting into this game, the deck everyone was playing was decidueye/plume and i just played volcanion, its an easy counter and got many easy wins.

Good players already own newer players. I commonly get someone who's obviously just made their account going against my deck that's 99% secret rare/full art and GX only, which is entirely unfair to them already. I'm not wanting the filter personally because I'm having trouble beating a certain deck type, because I win most of the time. I'm just sick of seeing garchomps. I quit every single time I see that ugly deck box that tells me it's that same lame deck again. It'd just help in so many ways. 


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24 October 2018 - 06:37 PM

#4

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

I was wondering if my opinion would have any weight here considering I'm returning from a rather long haitus. But to be honest, it's been so long since the last time I posted anything that I'm dying to answer some threads xd But I'm digressing, back to the topic.

While I can understand where you're comming from, your proposed idea is simply not viable as it presents several more issues than what it would "solve". For starters, XK9 is exactly right; having card filters would be very easy to exploit. Players using competitive (or at least reasonably viable) decks could easily filter out every single meta deck, which by process of elimination would leave as their only possible opponents people using non-meta decks, which includes several "bad" decks made by people who don't know the ins and outs of the game yet and who don't know of the existence of a filter either. This means that the vast majority of the 100% new players will be facing unbeatable (by them) meta decks whenever they aren't lucky enough to face someone of their own ELO.

As I'm sure you'll agree with me, facing well-built decks when you only have a mix of random cards pulled from booster packs feels terrible and it makes for a very nasty new player experience. And, even though your intention is to avoid this, allowing card filters would have the exact opposite effects by ensuring that only the people who don't know what they're doing will face these meta decks.

The current system works with a hidden skill value called ELO or MMR. Whenever you queue up for a match, the game will prioritize finding another player with a similar elo to yours. By this logic (and this is by no means perfect, there WILL be situations where this doesn't happen as intended) people that are ready to face stronger decks will only be matched against each other. As an extension of this, when the game starts consistantly giving you tougher opponents you should already be skilled and knowledgeable enough to build better decks and pilot them. EDIT: as a side note, the game is more prone to making errors when calculating the ELO of people who have very few games, because it has very little data to go by. The more you play, the more accurately your ELO should reflect your true skill level.

You could argue that new players don't have the knowledge or the collection to do this, but that's the point of matchmaking: based on your stats it can (again, within a certain margin of error) match you against similar opponents most of the times. If you keep losing over and over again, you'll face weaker opponents and start winning again. If you win game after game, the game expects you to (pardon the redundancy) "step up your game" if you want to keep winning.

With enough knowledge, it's entirely possible to build decks that are both cheap and viable. You're not even forced to build meta in order to win a lot, there are plenty of rouge decks and other creative decks that can and will beat the meta decks often enough.

Going back to the suggestion of card filters, it has one more related problem: queue times and its effect on matchmaking. That the game prioritizes a low ELO difference doesn't mean it's its only criteria. When you've been in queue for long enough, it will begin prioritizing matching you with anyone at all over finding you a fair matchup (in terms of skill difference). With a card filter that allows anyone to block all of the most played decks, queue times could see a massive increase. This can have repercussions ranging from just slightly higher waiting times to the complete death of a format, or worse, the death of the game itself. As a reminder (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I've been away for a while and this is just what I read in a different post), the reason Legacy tournaments were removed was because the time you had to wait to gather all 8 players was unreasonably high. This happened just because there weren't that many people who invested into Legacy decks and played Legacy tournaments on a regular basis. But the exact same thing could happen to Expanded and Standard if you suddenly eliminated 80% (take that percent with a grain of salt) of your possible opponents. Not only will queue times be horrendous, but you will also start facing very often players who are either very far below your skill level or very far above your skill level. While on a superficial level it would seem that card filters can save the new players some grief, after making a proper analysis you realize that it would simply break matchmaking and make the game unfair for everyone.

I hope this more than less explains why I don't believe your suggestion can be implemented. I hope this has been of help.

(PS. BOY it feels good to drop a WoT after so long. It really makes me feel alive for some strange reason xd)


Edited by Sakura150612, 24 October 2018 - 08:38 PM.

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24 October 2018 - 07:25 PM

#5

SandaledOtter

    Elite Trainer

  • SandaledOtter

[...]

(PS. BOY it feels good to drop a WoT after so long. It really makes me feel alive for some strange reason xd)

 

In answer to the wall of text: WB.


"Swishonk!" That's what's happening!

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24 October 2018 - 07:32 PM

#6

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

In answer to the wall of text: WB.

Thanks man, it feels good to be back. Good to see you're still around as well. It's always nice seeing some known faces upon returning.


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24 October 2018 - 07:44 PM

#7

Princess_Aurora

    Veteran Trainer

  • Princess_Aurora

Thanks man, it feels good to be back. Good to see you're still around as well. It's always nice seeing some known faces upon returning.


Welcome back! It’s been a while, how did everything go?

Friendship is magic!

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24 October 2018 - 07:58 PM

#8

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Welcome back! It’s been a while, how did everything go?

Thank you :D It's been a long time, indeed. Can't say everything went smoothly, definetely found several bumps on the road. For the time being, I feel well enough (and confident enough) to return. At the very least, I'll stay here until March 2019. When I return to college I'll have to reevaluate my situation once more, but that will be 4 months from now so you can expect to see me around. Thank you for your concern :)

 

Btw, I've only recently started reading the forums again, but while searching for the TC threads to start building my collection again (rip TCs), I found Watto's Junk Yard. This was a very nice thing of your part and everyone who has been cooperating with. I'm always happy to see the community helping each other, so I'll gladly donate some stuff too once I've managed to secure enough of a collection for myself (besides being outdated with the meta I don't have any collection to speak of right now, just a few codes I bought from a guy I know IRL a few days ago). Keep up the good work my friend.

 

PS. I'm so sorry for hijacking your thread OP, I really am xd


Edited by Sakura150612, 24 October 2018 - 08:33 PM.

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24 October 2018 - 08:47 PM

#9

Princess_Aurora

    Veteran Trainer

  • Princess_Aurora
Don’t worry about it! I wouldn’t have heard about you if it wasn’t for awesome_guy and Felidae bringing up your name. It was really interesting to sift through old threads and conversations. ^.^

Just out of curiosity, what deck are you looking forward to build?

Friendship is magic!

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24 October 2018 - 08:53 PM

#10

Felidae_

    Elite Trainer

  • Felidae_

A fun thought experiment: How hard could you destroy the Standard format if you got to ban 5 cards ?

Ultra Ball

Nest Ball

Mysterious Treasure

Cynthia

Liz & Tate

 

DCE

Basic Fighting

Basic Psychic

Basic Metal

Basic Electric

 

Garbodor

Buzzwole

Rayquaza GX

Zoroark GX

Malamar

 

There are a lot of fun combinations to think of.

 

In all seriousness though: This is a terrible idea on so many levels.

I'm also kinda surprised that you see so much Garchomp running around, as well as players who made their first deck. Even though it is hidden, the game has a matchmaking system for the versus mode ( ELO based) and if you are winning constantly you shouldn't be matched against those beginners.

In addition, neither Garchomp, nor Gardevoir or Guzzlord is even remotely OP at the moment, which makes me question your deck choice as well as deck building and playing skills.

Or, to phrase it differently: If you are only facing noobs, you might want to take a look in the mirror.


The shadows of the abyss are like the petals of a monstrous flower that shall blossom within the skull and expand the mind beyond what any man can bear, but whether it decays under the earth or above on green fields, or out to sea or in the very air, all shall come to revelation, and to revel, in the knowledge of the strangling fruit - and the hand of the sinner shall rejoice, for there is no sin in shadow or in light that the seeds of the dead cannot forgive...

 

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24 October 2018 - 09:20 PM

#11

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

Don’t worry about it! I wouldn’t have heard about you if it wasn’t for awesome_guy and Felidae bringing up your name. It was really interesting to sift through old threads and conversations. ^.^

Just out of curiosity, what deck are you looking forward to build?

Right now the only custom deck I have (and OP will hate me for this xd) is Garchomp. It's pretty much as budget as it can get; all I did was buy Match Strike twice to obtain a full playset of the Garchomp evolution line and Cynthias, as well as a 2-2 line of Lucario and a few other goodies it has. I have to say, buying this deck is absurdly efficient for people who are just starting to build decks. All I had to find in public trades was 2 Alolan Vulpix (the one that searches 2 pokemon), a Guzma, 2 Shrines of Punishment, and a 2-2-2 line of Fighting Type Garchomps to not get completely anhilated by Sylveon (sadly for me, even without weakness Sylveon GX still anhilates me because I depend on a lengthy setup and Magical Ribbon means a guaranteed Guzma into Plea GX, rip me xd). Incidentally, take note of that OP. If you play Sylveon GX, you'll give a hard time to Garchomp players. I won't even be mad if I play you in a random VS match and you steamroll me with Sylveon GX xd

I do want a Tapu Lele eventually, but that's definetely out of my reach for now. I know a guy who has a massive stack of 500+ Ultra Prism unredeemed codes (he's trustworthy so I know he won't sell me redeemed codes) and sells them at 30 cents a piece. I was pondering buying enough for a single Tapu Lele but I don't know if anyone will accept Utra Prism packs instead of GUR packs, and even then I don't how many Ultra Prism packs it would cost me. Uh, while I'm at it, I guess I'll ask for opinions on that price for codes. I'm willing to spend 30 USD a single time and get 100 Ultra Prism packs if that helps me get going, but now that there are no active TCs (once more, rip) I lost my usual point of reference for prices of both cards and packs. It will really suck if I invest that much money, only to hear later "nope, Ultra Prism packs are worthless. umad sakura? trolololo", so I'd like to confirm that before I buy anything.

That aside, I intend to (eventually) revive my old favorites: Night March, and above that one, Archie's Blastoise. I had a ton of fun with Blastoise back in the day so I will revive that deck once I get my collection going. I liked playing legacy too but no Legacy tournaments plus massive VS Ladder queue times for Legacy sounds like it will feel pretty bad, so I'm sticking to Expanded and Standard for now.

I do want to explore more Standard decks than just Garchomp, since spamming the same deck over and over gets old really fast (except for Blastoise. I could still play that all day long without getting bored xd). I'm still learning the ropes of the current meta though, so I'll be a little while before I branch off to different decks.

PS (writing a lot of these today, huh. I guess I'm just really exited to be back xd): I don't know if I should be happy or sad about the fact that I can't post spiderman memes, because I've pretty much made this into a Spiderman Sakura thread xD I know it doesn't seem like it, but I really am sorry OP q.q

 

EDIT: I had forgotten how oversensitive the curse filter was, and that for whatever reason when the system catches a single censored word it triples the spaces between all my paragraphs, which means I have to go back and fix all the paragraphs manually xd It does feel nostalgic though, gotta admit. 


Edited by Sakura150612, 24 October 2018 - 09:24 PM.

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25 October 2018 - 12:44 AM

#12

XK920XK

    Veteran Trainer

  • XK920XK

Or, to phrase it differently: If you are only facing noobs, you might want to take a look in the mirror.

tru dat


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27 October 2018 - 05:20 AM

#13

TooGhostly

    Rookie Trainer

  • TooGhostly

A fun thought experiment: How hard could you destroy the Standard format if you got to ban 5 cards ?

Ultra Ball

Nest Ball

Mysterious Treasure

Cynthia

Liz & Tate

 

DCE

Basic Fighting

Basic Psychic

Basic Metal

Basic Electric

 

Garbodor

Buzzwole

Rayquaza GX

Zoroark GX

Malamar

 

There are a lot of fun combinations to think of.

 

In all seriousness though: This is a terrible idea on so many levels.

I'm also kinda surprised that you see so much Garchomp running around, as well as players who made their first deck. Even though it is hidden, the game has a matchmaking system for the versus mode ( ELO based) and if you are winning constantly you shouldn't be matched against those beginners.

In addition, neither Garchomp, nor Gardevoir or Guzzlord is even remotely OP at the moment, which makes me question your deck choice as well as deck building and playing skills.

Or, to phrase it differently: If you are only facing noobs, you might want to take a look in the mirror.

Would you care to point out where I said those cards were OP? I'll give you 1,000$ if you can. If you can't read well enough to come up with a relevant reply, then don't. As for noob, though. Who's on the top of the leaderboard all the time and has nearly every single card in every single set? OH. Right. Me. 


  • -1

27 October 2018 - 05:25 AM

#14

TooGhostly

    Rookie Trainer

  • TooGhostly

I think most of you are missing the point entirely. As I've stated, I think there should be limits. If you just assume the worst case scenarios that the developers obviously wouldn't even implement, then of course you're going to think it's a bad idea. At its core, though. You know it isn't. 


  • -1

27 October 2018 - 07:00 AM

#15

Sakura150612

    Elite Trainer

  • Sakura150612

I think most of you are missing the point entirely. As I've stated, I think there should be limits. If you just assume the worst case scenarios that the developers obviously wouldn't even implement, then of course you're going to think it's a bad idea. At its core, though. You know it isn't.

Nope, sorry. It really is a bad idea. We've gone into great detail as to why, it should be plenty obvious by now. Don't worry though, it's not the first time and it won't be the last where the OP refuses to listen to all reason, so you've got good company.

Just to drop the final nail in the coffin on this, it's extremely unlikely (if not outright impossible) that any major changes will be done to the PTCGO without it first being applied to the physical game. A filter/ban rule would probably be deemed rather silly in a face-to-face tournament environment. Imagine going to your local league, and auto-losing because your decks keep getting banned out.

So it's just not gonna happen. Every single time that there has been a complaint about balance (or annoyingness) in the PTCGO, the final verdict has been that the virtual game must accurately reflect the physical one. AFAIK, no card has ever been banned, limited, or anything of the sort in the PTCGO without it first being restricted in the physical one.

At the risk of sounding redundant, your suggestion is not viable, both for practical issues and formal issues. Not like I expect you to listen, but it's all we can tell you at this point.

EDIT:

As for noob, though. Who's on the top of the leaderboard all the time and has nearly every single card in every single set? OH. Right. Me.

Just to be clear, most people don't give two flops about the leaderboards or how big of a collection you have. Not to mention it's completely irrelevant with regards to your suggestion. A bad idea is bad regardless of whether it comes from a noob or an experienced player.

Edited by Sakura150612, 27 October 2018 - 03:49 PM.

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